What is a « difficult life » ?

[Shinzenbi]

I live in France. Many people i listen to complain about their « difficult life ». I’m fed up with it. They do not even realize that they have ONLY rich person’s problems, 100%. I know it is a great mistake to deny someone’s pain and i do not want to fall into this trap. That’s why i’d be grateful if you could help me sort it out.

Maslow pyramid is a helpful tool to indicate how critical the situation of a human being is.

Have you ever met someone who has a really difficult life in a rich country ? What i have observed is people with all self-centered thoughts that lead to desire related diseases. Examples : feeling of loneliness, not enough money to afford nice vacations, jealousy, no partner, getting up too early, craving for individual attention… Most of their problems are relationship ones, which often indicates a person wealthy enough to be on one of the top 3 steps of the Maslow pyramid. No food insecurity, no physical insecurity, no financial insecurity (good for them)… but still so much suffering. Unjustified in my understanding. Is that what Gurdjieff calls unconscious suffering ?

I’ve travelled to India and visited a small part of Rajasthan. Close to the desert, there are people for whom simply having a glass of drinking water is a challenge. A Palestinian guy i’ve met in France did not eat everyday because he thought that he would still make it to the next day. What they had in common was their happiness and their will to fight for life through their efforts. They almost never complained (i know this partly proceeds from religious beliefs). In China i’ve seen people picking up rice noodles from mud on the floor and eat them. This would make them survive until the next day. And also abandoned children picking up cans in the streets and living underground in the sewers on hot conduits so as not to freeze to death. The list is endless.

What i’ve figured out is that emotional turmoil or pain, in most cases based on self-centered/childish/jealousy/desire thoughts leads to an impression of difficult life. Also things not being like one would want them to be. Once again, i’m not denying anyone’s pain. I just find it very selfish and full of ignorance in many cases. There are third-world countries in which the word « depression » does not even exist.

There is a big difference between standard of living (based on money) and quality of living (based on other factors). One can be very high and the other very low simultaneously. It is not contradictory at all. Thus, many people in rich country think that they have a difficult life while it is obviously NOT the case. I personaly find that i am so very lucky to be born in a rich and peaceful country. I thank God every day for it.

So, what is a « difficult life » in a wealthy country ? Does it even make sense ? Is it something objective, merely a feeling or something else ? What shall we reply to a person who complains about it ?

Thanks for reading :)

 

[T.C.]

I think life struggles and difficulty are somewhat based on expectations.

Imagine you go to the cupboard to eat the last piece of chocolate, and when you open the door, you find someone else has eaten it already. Imagine you have a job, and one morning you turn up and the place has closed down and you are told you don't have a job any more. Imagine that your culture promotes rich celebrities, all the time, all day, every day; and they're beautiful and skinny, and handsome and muscular. And imagine that those attributes - money and fame and beauty are prized higher than anything else, and you know you'll never have them. Imagine that because of the false economic and credit system, the roads are packed full of new cars; cars that are heavily advertised as status symbols, and you have to have one too, which takes up a massive amount of your income every month. Imagine that you fall into the majority of people, the working class poor, yet 'being successful' in the eyes of society means owning a house, having two cars, a marriage, children, two two-week holidays each year.

We're constantly bombarded by the trappings of a false way of life that people are taught they should have. It's confidence shattering and leads to nihilism. True values aren't espoused by our culture.

It's a trap. It's deliberately set up to be about acquiring things and status that it's impossible for the majority of people to acquire.

I think that's just one, general reason why people who you think have it relatively easy might complain about their lives.

 

[Nico]

I am currently reading The law of One book II, the word Pain goes with the term "experiences catalyst". (And it's funny because Ra talks a lot in term of color ray activity with Don Elkins, which totally relates with the Maslow pyramid you presented).

Questioner: Thank you. Can you give me examples of catalytic action from the last session beginning with the self unmanifested producing learning catalyst?
Ra: I am Ra. We observed your interest in the catalyst of pain. This experience is most common among your entities. The pain may be of the physical complex. More often it is of the mental and emotional complex. In some few cases the pain is spiritual in complex-nature. This creates a potential for learning. The lessons to be learned vary. Almost always these lessons include patience, tolerance, and the ability for the light touch.

It seems to relate with what you've said, this Gurdjieff's unconscious suffering. People, or what we may call their "Free will" tends toward pain in this world to give them the opportunity to know about a more higher perspective of "Universal Love". I observed when the pain is not accepted or balanced or whatever, it is just expressed, inward or outward. I think it might be conscious or unconscious, I cannot know about that, specifically. When I don't accept others people behaviours, it tends to crisp my belly (talking about pain !) which is then absorbed by further acceptance and recapitulation (recalling of past experiences). I don't know when this cycle pain/acceptance will end, it will when it will.

Then Ra again :

Questioner: Thank you. Would you define karma?
Ra: I am Ra. Our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. Those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. This stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. These two concepts are inseparable.
Questioner: If an entity develops what is called karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalysts that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?
Ra: I am Ra. This is, in general, correct. However, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. This is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. Thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. This also brakes or stops what you call karma.

I find myself these days, in what I called perpetual Recapitulation, that is, when I am, I accept all which is coming in my field of awareness. With the question that was particularly helpful for me : "What I WAS feeling right now ?" , it seems paradoxal but it puts a "time space" between my feelings and I accept them more easily.

Again, this resonate with my readings of the Law of One :

The universe in which you live is recapitulation in each part of intelligent infinity. Thus you will see the same patterns repeated in physical and metaphysical areas;

And maybe this is what was saying Gurdjieff when he said that he was teaching how to "pay directly in life".

So, the last advice I can offer to you is don't bother about other, take care of your own experience (I think Gurdjieff adviced this too ^^). And of course continue to notice what you are noticing. I asked myself if indeed the third world people were not "happier" in their view of the world than the so-called Occidental people.

 

[casper]

Greeting Shinzenbi :) .
First I want to say right away that my first language is not English, I hope you understand me what I want to say.
You wrote:

I live in France. Many people i listen to complain about their « difficult life ». I’m fed up with it. They do not even realize that they have ONLY rich person’s problems, 100%......


...... I personaly find that i am so very lucky to be born in a rich and peaceful country. I thank God every day for it......

https://www.sott.net/article/322543-Terror-Attack-in-Nice-One-Frenchman-Speaks-Out
I do not think you can say that you live in a "safe" country, because You never know, right?

Also, recent and today's earthquake in Italy.
You can live in a "rich" country, and then nature at one point takes you all.

Have you ever met someone who has a really difficult life in a rich country ?

Yes, terminally ill people

 

[BrendaH]

what is a « difficult life » in a wealthy country?

I think a difficult life is something subjective, it doesn't matter if you live in a rich country or not. You can be struggling with a hard "period" of your life but someone who has lived something worst could think that your situation isn't that bad. And yes, there are people who like to complain about everything but we can't do anything to stop it, if this bothers you tell them you have already heard them say the same thing again and again and if he/she could, please, stop moaning about everything because that wouldn't help them to fix their problems. That is what I say when someone is complaining about "stupid" things all the time.

About a difficult life in a rich country, well, you can still have a "difficult life", it doesn't matter where you are, anything could happen.

 

[BrendaH]

Here is an article that tells you what to do and what not when you are with someone that is a chronic complainer, basically it helps you to know how to deal with the situation. It presents a really good idea:

http://positivesharing.com/2006/08/a-devious-trick-to-handle-chronic-complainers/

 

[Neil]

I don't think the hierarchy is entirely linear, you can have partial fulfillment on lower levels, which allows you to "unlock" higher levels which may have some mitigating influence on psychological health. I think the model is more appropriate to capitalistic societies, and is just that, a model. There are some notable counterexamples. Some nomadic, or semi-nomadic migrant groups may not have what we would consider to be food or employment security, but there are strong "tribal bonds" which make life meaningful, even when it is austere. In some cases they are "united in suffering" in other better cases they have adapted to a life of irregularity and unpredictability which gives them a sense of dignity and independence even if they don't have financial security, which has various definitions depending on the person. For one person it is $10K a year, for another $100K, but it is almost always more than you have. There are still others who say financial security is a myth, and they don't need money. Some of these people, if they have a strong psychological substratum, can deal with great calamity while still being functional or even seeming erudite, where others with financial security in the more traditional sense are a psychological house of cards, ready to collapse at the first gust of wind.

In capitalist societies, social networks are weak and the psychological substratum have been conditioned to be fickle and demanding. The hierarchy of needs has been conflated to be congruent with the hierarchy of wealth. You need some kind of money or welfare check to eat. With more money you get property and access to healthcare. With more money you become more attractive to potential mates, and with even more money you can afford children with said mate. Perhaps you came from a well-off family that allowed you plenty of chances to play around with different careers, 10 years of your life to study at various far-flung universities, and you were allowed to establish your unique identity in a discipline that suits you. Eventually, you are able to self-actualize and break away from the routine almost completely, becoming a very wealthy entrepreneur. This is the only path to fulfillment offered by hardcore capitalism; the system is designed so that 5% at most of the population will ever really attain it, and it really only works for highly materialistic people. For people with more "humanistic" values, the hierarchy of needs and hierarchy of wealth start to diverge in the middle, which is why people get stuck there.

You can be alone in some ISIS town under the constant threat of starvation and death, or you can live in a beautiful mansion filled with the finest and most opulent things staring back at you with their emptiness. From an esoteric perspective, one form of enslavement is just as bad as the other, except the second kind is much more insidious because oftentimes it is enjoyable. People complaining about their stupid first world problems are usually annoying, but oftentimes it is a mask for a much more serious malaise.

So in conclusion, I would say that a difficult life is a life where one is cut off from any and all meaning and purpose, where self-actualization is made pretty much impossible, and it can take place in a variety of forms.

 

[Solie123]

I don't think the hierarchy is entirely linear, you can have partial fulfillment on lower levels, which allows you to "unlock" higher levels which may have some mitigating influence on psychological health. I think the model is more appropriate to capitalistic societies, and is just that, a model. There are some notable counterexamples. Some nomadic, or semi-nomadic migrant groups may not have what we would consider to be food or employment security, but there are strong "tribal bonds" which make life meaningful, even when it is austere. In some cases they are "united in suffering" in other better cases they have adapted to a life of irregularity and unpredictability which gives them a sense of dignity and independence even if they don't have financial security, which has various definitions depending on the person. For one person it is $10K a year, for another $100K, but it is almost always more than you have. There are still others who say financial security is a myth, and they don't need money. Some of these people, if they have a strong psychological substratum, can deal with great calamity while still being functional or even seeming erudite, where others with financial security in the more traditional sense are a psychological house of cards, ready to collapse at the first gust of wind.

In capitalist societies, social networks are weak and the psychological substratum have been conditioned to be fickle and demanding. The hierarchy of needs has been conflated to be congruent with the hierarchy of wealth. You need some kind of money or welfare check to eat. With more money you get property and access to healthcare. With more money you become more attractive to potential mates, and with even more money you can afford children with said mate. Perhaps you came from a well-off family that allowed you plenty of chances to play around with different careers, 10 years of your life to study at various far-flung universities, and you were allowed to establish your unique identity in a discipline that suits you. Eventually, you are able to self-actualize and break away from the routine almost completely, becoming a very wealthy entrepreneur. This is the only path to fulfillment offered by hardcore capitalism; the system is designed so that 5% at most of the population will ever really attain it, and it really only works for highly materialistic people. For people with more "humanistic" values, the hierarchy of needs and hierarchy of wealth start to diverge in the middle, which is why people get stuck there.

You can be alone in some ISIS town under the constant threat of starvation and death, or you can live in a beautiful mansion filled with the finest and most opulent things staring back at you with their emptiness. From an esoteric perspective, one form of enslavement is just as bad as the other, except the second kind is much more insidious because oftentimes it is enjoyable. People complaining about their stupid first world problems are usually annoying, but oftentimes it is a mask for a much more serious malaise.

So in conclusion, I would say that a difficult life is a life where one is cut off from any and all meaning and purpose, where self-actualization is made pretty much impossible, and it can take place in a variety of forms.

Thank you Neil! I was thinking along the same lines.

I don't think the right word to discribe this behavior is subjective, although it is very specific to each individual and their own lifestyle.

I've also considered this topic much myself. Especially in terms of my extended family, who for the most part live in Dominican Republic, a third world country. I have visited them plenty of times in the past, and the most striking element to me was how much they enjoyed life, despite not having any 'luxuries'. They truly enjoyed one another's company and their sense of tribal bond was always strong, even with their neighbors.

From what I noticed, they had such a care for one another. I remember this little old lady who live down a hill, she had no family and was just too old to care for herself. Everyone in the neighborhood would bring her food, or come and help her with the house. Every morning, my aunt would send my cousin down with a cup of coffee and a plate of breakfast.

But you didn't just have to be in need to received, it was tradition that whenever anyone made a big meal, or something special like stew, that you bring some to your neighbors. In other words, share.

Everyone looked out for everyone, especially the children. I remember getting my ears pulled a few times by my aunts neighbors! Not my mom, not my aunt, but my aunts neighbor! XD She caught me eating cherries from her tree, which I supposed to. And there's never any backlash from the parents, instead they appreciate that kind of reaction.

Anyway...
It's quite sad how for the most part, with the way the world is right now, it seems likes you almost have to be lacking in something to have another thing.