Mountainpainter
A Disturbance in the Force
How do we find it? How do we DISCERN what is real and what is not?
Thoughts please
Thoughts please
What is "truth"
- Thread starter Mountainpainter
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Ina
The Living Force
For me, truth is the internal notion of 'something' or 'stuff' that has axiomatic value, as in maths, were to demonstrate it would require reducing to an absurd level of 'it'.
Also to unpack the 'stuff', I would define it as collections of random or sequential coherent or incoherent 'somethings' sampled at the smallest cognitively bearable units of time, as incoming information packets become larger.
I said internal notion as being derived by the vectorial sum between my inward and outward perspectives, it will always reside within.
Also to unpack the 'stuff', I would define it as collections of random or sequential coherent or incoherent 'somethings' sampled at the smallest cognitively bearable units of time, as incoming information packets become larger.
I said internal notion as being derived by the vectorial sum between my inward and outward perspectives, it will always reside within.
Ina
The Living Force
You observe and define your own reality. I like my reality in 3D to be as true or tangible as possible because I like to make the most out of it. It is perhaps self-infatuation to think that I can keep my reality true at all times, but given the interesting times we live, l allow myself that, as I allow changing my internal notion in the light of new information.
Discerning should be adapted for real-time observation of a fluid 'reality with the capacity of growing and refining itself.
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
Simple, listen to Mr Science himself, Fauci.
Haha, in all seriousness, truth is what exists objectively. To discern it, one needs to study / learn and also you need to work on yourself to clean your reading instrument. It's impossible to study / learn everything so you can compensate by cleaning your reading instrument, learning about the human condition and its limitations including psychological biases, how emotions can both help and hinder in discerning truth (+ where the demarcation lines may be). Last but not least, one needs to link into others and lean on what others know, can see or have found out. Here again, one needs a good instrument to know who to trust and who not to trust as for example, I wouldn't trust Bill Gates or Mr Science himself (Fauci).
I also think that we only know the real truth about things when it is already too late. And truth can be different for everyone, because everyone looks at something from a different point of view. In some cases the truth can be found out quickly, in others it is a bit trickier and you need common sense and also enough knowledge and in any case a network like ours is a wonderful helper in the search for truth. 
I would add, first work on ourselves, undo the programming by observing ourselves our reactions, know our machines. How we can be ruled by emotions, using intuition, knowledge, networking. By questioning everything and Beleiving nothing until you hear more. Sometimes its not easy to see the truth in certain situations, we may have to go through the experience, while being open and observent not ruled by emotions or latching on to what we may believe to be true. Sometime truth reveals its self if given the space to do so, if we just get out of the way. We have to navigate through the lies internal and external by knowing ourselves. Still a work in progress.
PabloAngello
Jedi Master
"I know that I know nothing" (Socrates) - this is truth.
May I ask, what are your thoughts on the subject?
The truth, to me, is attempting to understand how things are and why they are that way. As others mentioned, you can’t be absolutely certain, but the more you learn, the the more you approach how the universe sees itself. There is a consistency to reality, a structure, and things happen a certain way and not another way. Its fun to try to figure it out, because its meaning, elegance, complexity, and overall design is more interesting than anything you are able to produce yourself. So that’s the “why” or seeking the truth - because the alternative, attempting to create your own reality, is going to be vastly inferior in every way. Plus, we are part of the universe whether we like it or not, and it only makes sense to try to understand what you are part of and why.
As for the “how” to go about it - I like the scientific method myself. Make a hypothesis, test it, refine it, test it again, throw it out if need be, rinse and repeat. I guess one thing the scientific method doesn’t really address is the need to constantly be learning and to be open to all possibilities as you do. When you’re first starting out everything may seem equally likely to be true or false. It’s all just information. It’s intimidating and chaotic, but if you persist and have faith that there is a glorious elegance to it all, that all the pieces of the puzzle will make sense together, then eventually the truths will start to connect and help reinforce each other in a very congruent way. This will result in your neural patterns doing the same, and as time goes on, you develop a “smell” for truth - things will pass the sniff test or not because they will either jive with your “map” of reality or not.
But beware - it doesn’t mean you can ever be certain and you should be careful and always open to all possibilities of being mistaken. But that’s only because sometimes a few pieces of a puzzle will fit together coincidentally but still be wrong, and so your current “map” could always be only accidentally and locally correct and won’t fit with the larger puzzle at all, which you won’t know until you get enough of the other pieces. But as long as you keep that in mind, you can safely keep adding more pieces to your puzzle or setting them aside until you know what to do with them later, and whether you need to change your current pieces to make them work. If you fit a few pieces wrong, you will realize it as you get enough other pieces which suggest a larger map, so you rearrange the small group you previously arranged incorrectly to be able to properly expand the picture you’re working with, and keep going. You keep at this, and hopefully in time the risk of your local group of pieces you put together will be less and less likely to be wrong because of the sheer number of them fitting perfectly into a rather large picture. When that time comes, you will be well on your way to discovering the how/why of the universe. But even then, you keep one eye out for being wrong anyway.
The only way to judge whether you’re truly on track is by someone who has a much bigger piece of the puzzle completed and yours fits neatly into theirs. So you never really know if you were on the right track except in retrospect. Just don’t get too comfortable! And remember to keep the faith - there is an order, meaning, purpose, mathematical beauty, and coherence to the universe beyond anything we can imagine or currently truly understand. The only way to get there is one puzzle piece at a time, and working with others because the puzzle is so big no one can do it alone!
As for the “how” to go about it - I like the scientific method myself. Make a hypothesis, test it, refine it, test it again, throw it out if need be, rinse and repeat. I guess one thing the scientific method doesn’t really address is the need to constantly be learning and to be open to all possibilities as you do. When you’re first starting out everything may seem equally likely to be true or false. It’s all just information. It’s intimidating and chaotic, but if you persist and have faith that there is a glorious elegance to it all, that all the pieces of the puzzle will make sense together, then eventually the truths will start to connect and help reinforce each other in a very congruent way. This will result in your neural patterns doing the same, and as time goes on, you develop a “smell” for truth - things will pass the sniff test or not because they will either jive with your “map” of reality or not.
But beware - it doesn’t mean you can ever be certain and you should be careful and always open to all possibilities of being mistaken. But that’s only because sometimes a few pieces of a puzzle will fit together coincidentally but still be wrong, and so your current “map” could always be only accidentally and locally correct and won’t fit with the larger puzzle at all, which you won’t know until you get enough of the other pieces. But as long as you keep that in mind, you can safely keep adding more pieces to your puzzle or setting them aside until you know what to do with them later, and whether you need to change your current pieces to make them work. If you fit a few pieces wrong, you will realize it as you get enough other pieces which suggest a larger map, so you rearrange the small group you previously arranged incorrectly to be able to properly expand the picture you’re working with, and keep going. You keep at this, and hopefully in time the risk of your local group of pieces you put together will be less and less likely to be wrong because of the sheer number of them fitting perfectly into a rather large picture. When that time comes, you will be well on your way to discovering the how/why of the universe. But even then, you keep one eye out for being wrong anyway.
The only way to judge whether you’re truly on track is by someone who has a much bigger piece of the puzzle completed and yours fits neatly into theirs. So you never really know if you were on the right track except in retrospect. Just don’t get too comfortable! And remember to keep the faith - there is an order, meaning, purpose, mathematical beauty, and coherence to the universe beyond anything we can imagine or currently truly understand. The only way to get there is one puzzle piece at a time, and working with others because the puzzle is so big no one can do it alone!
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Palinurus
The Living Force
I searched my bookmarks on the topic and came up with the following links:
Truth or Lies by Laura Knight-Jadczyk
Living in Truth
What is Truth?
Challenging Postmodernism: Philosophy and the Politics of Truth - David Detmer
Hope this helps a bit.
Truth or Lies by Laura Knight-Jadczyk
Living in Truth
What is Truth?
Challenging Postmodernism: Philosophy and the Politics of Truth - David Detmer
Hope this helps a bit.
Knowing truth is most important, because it’s causing in one’s own vibrational frequency of current life and also depending on the future existence of one’s life.
And when truth comes from light or from right information source, it gives us protection from all kinds of manipulation or attacks.
That’s why Cs said that “Information is the most important factor.” So, we gathered lots of information from various sources and discussed in the forum.
Who is the God? Do you think there is one entity that called God exist in some where in the universe and looks down judging us according to our conduct or thinking?
I hope this link give you some information about Who is a God or Creator.
Who created the creator?
Speculation is fun and even useful as it stretches the mind and reveals new tools and concepts. But in the end... The C's themselves, when asked what 7th Density was like, replied (paraphrasing), "How should we know? We're only 6th Density!" I also like the way South American sorcerers, (as...
cassiopaea.org
And if we don’t seek the truth, then what our life would be?
pinkfreud
Jedi Master
Great question! And I’m loving all of the answers, as they echo different permutations of the same thing. A good sign for truth in action!
I listened to a conversation between Jordan Peterson and one of his contemporaries that helped illustrate the ladder of truth, for me.
First level is subjective: what we ourselves have personally learned to be reliable patterns in our own lives. Unfortunately, this is where so many seem to get stuck now, and by itself it is not “the” truth. If we do not put our own interpretations of reality to any tests, then we can live and die in a fantasy and never know the difference.
Second is shared truth, or the patterns we have found to repeat over time and can be confirmed by other people’s subjective truths. The first test, in a way. But it, too, is not “the truth” yet. And, as this dialogue is practiced, we are bound to come up against more instances which disprove our subjective truth. This is why it is so important to engage even if we must admit to mistakes or errors in judgement.
Once we’ve passed through those fires, and hopefully come through the other side with others, then we can start analyzing those errors and mistakes. We can use them to pare down other fantasies and better shape what is likely a still warped sense of reality. We can use what we learned to get better at challenging our assumptions more frequently and more deeply.
And if we still have others around us who practice the same, we can put all faculties to the work of clarifying the picture, letting no flaw through. The smallest flaw can grow into total distortion over time if left unchecked.
Here’s the podcast - it may not be fully relevant, but you may find it helpful.
I listened to a conversation between Jordan Peterson and one of his contemporaries that helped illustrate the ladder of truth, for me.
First level is subjective: what we ourselves have personally learned to be reliable patterns in our own lives. Unfortunately, this is where so many seem to get stuck now, and by itself it is not “the” truth. If we do not put our own interpretations of reality to any tests, then we can live and die in a fantasy and never know the difference.
Second is shared truth, or the patterns we have found to repeat over time and can be confirmed by other people’s subjective truths. The first test, in a way. But it, too, is not “the truth” yet. And, as this dialogue is practiced, we are bound to come up against more instances which disprove our subjective truth. This is why it is so important to engage even if we must admit to mistakes or errors in judgement.
Once we’ve passed through those fires, and hopefully come through the other side with others, then we can start analyzing those errors and mistakes. We can use them to pare down other fantasies and better shape what is likely a still warped sense of reality. We can use what we learned to get better at challenging our assumptions more frequently and more deeply.
And if we still have others around us who practice the same, we can put all faculties to the work of clarifying the picture, letting no flaw through. The smallest flaw can grow into total distortion over time if left unchecked.
Here’s the podcast - it may not be fully relevant, but you may find it helpful.
I've been thinking about different characteristics of truths:
Weight of truths
Are some truths more important than others? For example, knowing that 4D STS feeds on humans seems more important than knowing you can open your bedroom window. But what if there is a fire and the only escape is to jump through the window? Suddenly, knowing that you can open the window becomes vital!
Temporal truths
There will be a train arriving at very high speed in two minutes. You know that if you step on the rails in two minutes, you will be hit by a train. But you are still safe now, as there is no train. The truth (getting hit if you don't move) only applies in two minutes.
Timeless truths
Truths like "2 + 2 = 4" don't seem to be depending on a specific context once you know what they symbolize.
Strangely, no matter how truth is categorized, it seems that the application of truth gives truth its weight. Truths don't need to carry weight themselves. Even the time component of truth doesn't need to be defined because "sleeping" truths become "active" truths at the moment of application. We are surrounded by "sleeping" truths!
Weight of truths
Are some truths more important than others? For example, knowing that 4D STS feeds on humans seems more important than knowing you can open your bedroom window. But what if there is a fire and the only escape is to jump through the window? Suddenly, knowing that you can open the window becomes vital!
Temporal truths
There will be a train arriving at very high speed in two minutes. You know that if you step on the rails in two minutes, you will be hit by a train. But you are still safe now, as there is no train. The truth (getting hit if you don't move) only applies in two minutes.
Timeless truths
Truths like "2 + 2 = 4" don't seem to be depending on a specific context once you know what they symbolize.
Strangely, no matter how truth is categorized, it seems that the application of truth gives truth its weight. Truths don't need to carry weight themselves. Even the time component of truth doesn't need to be defined because "sleeping" truths become "active" truths at the moment of application. We are surrounded by "sleeping" truths!
