Yodeling

Laura

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Since I got started on music with the Abba thread, I thought I'd just toss in here the fact that I LOVE yodeling. I don't DO it, but I sure like to listen to it. It's very much like some Eastern European folk music in some ways. Anyway, for those of you who might like to check it out, here are some very young yodelers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8ox71CHjQI

This next little girl is good but doesn't have the stage presence of the first one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLA9VfNdUkQ

Don't let the slow start put you off on this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whIj6mrUGzQ&NR=1

Here she is at the age of 7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ntKBILZ06k&feature=fvw

And in French:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2FoC8Mc7PY&feature=related

And then, the professional - Kerry Christensen!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alMbWx4lVL4&NR=1 This guy is so good it brings tears to the eyes!

The Swiss doing it - very different from the American variety:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMgGFwDAI6c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8WuzvfZ7RM&feature=related

Tony Clark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOAW1B13ngQ&feature=related
 
Yodeling is interesting. People either love it or they hate it. My sisters and I have done a lot of performing throughout the years with our little bluegrass band. There's a couple songs on our repratoir where I yodel--more along the lines of cowboy style. They say cowboys used to yodel to relax the herd. The audience usually loves it and it's a lot of fun to do. Out of all the singing I do, yodeling feels the most wild, like I'm howling and yipping at the moon. ;D
 
Thank you, Laura for the music, I love the first girl, she is amazing!
I liked the rest also it is great to see these children are so talented! :flowers:

It's interesting listening yodel, when it comes the low register switch to the higher(medium).
In yodel the sudden register change what is makes it hearing how the low register('chest voice') change to the medium register.
As an opera singer we tend to learn how to 'blend' the registers together to a same quality, either low medium or high.
I was always wondering if I can do yodel. :/
But I think opera singers might can, especially Cecilia Bartoli, here is the example:
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbnDSxnfgxs&feature=related

Yodelling song - Johann Nepomuk Hummel

This is classic opera version though, and yodel came from folk songs.
I love her voice!
Dunno, I like it. :)
 
anothermagyar said:
I was always wondering if I can do yodel. :/
But I think opera singers might can, especially Cecilia Bartoli, here is the example:
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbnDSxnfgxs&feature=related

Yodelling song - Johann Nepomuk Hummel

This is classic opera version though, and yodel came from folk songs.
I love her voice!
Dunno, I like it. :)

Well, that's just the icing on the cake because.... I LOVE opera too!
 
I loved the Yodeling with 'The Sound of Music",
something about the "goat herd".... ah-some!
 
I'm a singer, but I can't yodel. :/ My voice just won't do it, it's wrapped too tight.

I heard an interview with blues singer John Hammond Jr where he spoke of meeting Howlin' Wolf. Wolf said that his main influence was country singer Jimmy Rodgers, who was famous for his yodeling, but when he tried to yodel it out came sounding like a howl, so he went with the howl.
 
Hmmm, I watched part of the first video you posted, laura. I had to stop it short 'cause it was just a little too country for me, but that little girl had a great voice!

Y'know, even though i'm not a fan (I don't think anyone can really write off yodeling as a music skill just cause it aint their thing) I really liked being reminded that there are still REAL singers out there.
Every other studio album nowadays, the vocals are auto-tuned to death because the singers don't want to be good at what they do, they just want the record done, y'know?
I'm a firm believer that if you need technological assistance to create the illusion that you're a good singer, just pack it up and quit!

Opera was also mentioned, although i don't listen to very much opera, you have got to respect the skills these people have! An opera singer MUST project well and have a "clean" voice, IMO. That is very hard to do.
I myself practice screaming too much, so there's no way I could do anything like that at all, not that i hurt my voice (i've mentioned elsewhere that there is a "real" technique for screaming)
when you are a screamer, your voice develops differently from someone who is classically trained. I can definately sing "normally" but that opera stuff is out of my reach!

On a final note, I don't believe in "talent." What i mean by that is I've always thought that the word "talent" implies that it is something you are born with, I strongly disagree with that notion.
What most people prefer to call "talent", I refer to as "skill." The reason for that being this: I wasn't born with an ability to do music, period. Before i started guitar, I knew about as much about
music as I know about building a time machine, LOL. You think my fingers just automatically knew where to put themselves on the fretboard? :lol:
The reason I wanted to point that out was just in case there is anyone who thinks they can't do music just 'cause you've never done it before. :)

I've met a few people who feel like they'll never get good just because it takes soooo much practice.
 
[quote author=Abstract]Opera was also mentioned, although i don't listen to very much opera, you have got to respect the skills these people have! An opera singer MUST project well and have a "clean" voice, IMO. That is very hard to do.
I myself practice screaming too much, so there's no way I could do anything like that at all, not that i hurt my voice (i've mentioned elsewhere that there is a "real" technique for screaming)
when you are a screamer, your voice develops differently from someone who is classically trained. I can definately sing "normally" but that opera stuff is out of my reach!
[/quote]
Maybe I'm off topic but it is a matter a fact opera-singers has to learn to project without strain the voice. Takes many years to learn that, there is "No free lunch!" ;)
Some people told me when I sang I'm "too loud". But that is my voice basically the natural sound of the voice.
It is loud because I had always a strong voice.
I remember I was 6 years old and my family made me sing front of them.
God, I hated it!- :mad:
You mentioned you don't believe in 'talent', well how could we explain things like children can sing with such clear wonderful voice or playing on instruments with such ease and virtuosity! :)
Maybe reincarnation?
These children above has a definitely natural talent how to sing and usually good singers are good mimics.
I used to mimic singers that's how you learn in the beginning.
 
abstract said:
Hmmm, I watched part of the first video you posted, laura. I had to stop it short 'cause it was just a little too country for me, but that little girl had a great voice!

Too bad it's too "country" for you. Despite the fact that most country lyrics are designed to inculcate STS values in people, the music is quite emotional and appealing (which is why it works so well leading people astray!)

I listened to your own creation here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Q93uWyPig I actually forced myself to listen to all of it just to see if I found anything that redeemed it in my mental/emotional/physical system and, unfortunately, did not. Those kinds of sounds you produce remind me of psychic drivers that the STS heirarchy have developed to agitate the neurons and possibly even the DNA, of the listeners. Certainly, it very well expresses the hormonal agitation and nervous system dysregulation of the adolescent, and may feel like "relief" for that reason, but one would not wish to stay in that state any longer than necessary.

abstract said:
Y'know, even though i'm not a fan (I don't think anyone can really write off yodeling as a music skill just cause it aint their thing) I really liked being reminded that there are still REAL singers out there.

Funny that you noticed that.
abstract said:
Every other studio album nowadays, the vocals are auto-tuned to death because the singers don't want to be good at what they do, they just want the record done, y'know?

Same with music.

abstract said:
I'm a firm believer that if you need technological assistance to create the illusion that you're a good singer, just pack it up and quit!

I agree.

abstract said:
Opera was also mentioned, although i don't listen to very much opera, you have got to respect the skills these people have! An opera singer MUST project well and have a "clean" voice, IMO. That is very hard to do.

It's harder for some than for others, but in nearly all cases, it is a technique and can be learned.

abstract said:
I myself practice screaming too much, so there's no way I could do anything like that at all, not that i hurt my voice (i've mentioned elsewhere that there is a "real" technique for screaming)

See above comments about music and adolescents.

abstract said:
when you are a screamer, your voice develops differently from someone who is classically trained. I can definately sing "normally" but that opera stuff is out of my reach!

Not necessarily. You may not have the "pipes" to do it - that is genetic - but you can still learn a lot with training.

abstract said:
On a final note, I don't believe in "talent." What i mean by that is I've always thought that the word "talent" implies that it is something you are born with, I strongly disagree with that notion.

Too bad you disagree since inborn - genetic - talent is probably more than 50% of a person's ability to do anything. We are not born blank slates that anyone or anything can write on as they wish (including ourselves).

abstract said:
What most people prefer to call "talent", I refer to as "skill." The reason for that being this: I wasn't born with an ability to do music, period.

From my perspective, I haven't witnessed you doing any "music" yet! Perhaps you don't have the talent? Just the desire and you do what is easy: make nerve rattling, driving sounds that you call music? (Admittedly, a lot of other people call it "music" too, but consider the society that has made it a norm. I rest my case.)

abstract said:
Before i started guitar, I knew about as much about music as I know about building a time machine, LOL. You think my fingers just automatically knew where to put themselves on the fretboard? :lol:
The reason I wanted to point that out was just in case there is anyone who thinks they can't do music just 'cause you've never done it before. :)
I've met a few people who feel like they'll never get good just because it takes soooo much practice.

There are people who practice for years and never get "good." Though, in certain genres of "music," they can be considered "good" because the standards are very low - sometimes so low they've gone negative.
 
MC said:
Laura, do you now have band width to support video? I seem to remember at one time you had difficulties with that.

Yes indeed! We harassed them (almost daily) until they finally decided to get the project finished just to get us to shut up! I don't know what the system is or how it works, I just know the guys were on the roof or running around with various instruments for a couple weeks in advance of the event, some kind of "installer" person came once or twice, and there was quite a bit of goings on and then, one day, voila! Bandwidth! Needless to say, I've been having a LITTLE bit of fun with it in between getting all this paperwork done! I hope we can have another session with the Cs soon too!
 
Laura said:
MC said:
Laura, do you now have band width to support video? I seem to remember at one time you had difficulties with that.

Yes indeed! We harassed them (almost daily) until they finally decided to get the project finished just to get us to shut up! I don't know what the system is or how it works, I just know the guys were on the roof or running around with various instruments for a couple weeks in advance of the event, some kind of "installer" person came once or twice, and there was quite a bit of goings on and then, one day, voila! Bandwidth! Needless to say, I've been having a LITTLE bit of fun with it in between getting all this paperwork done! I hope we can have another session with the Cs soon too!

I had a feeling you guys finally "broke on through" the bandwidth problem. That's great to hear. Hopefully ya'll will not encounter any more issues in that area.
 
[quote author=Laura]Quote from: MC on Today at 10:29:01 AM
Laura, do you now have band width to support video? I seem to remember at one time you had difficulties with that.

Yes indeed! We harassed them (almost daily) until they finally decided to get the project finished just to get us to shut up! I don't know what the system is or how it works, I just know the guys were on the roof or running around with various instruments for a couple weeks in advance of the event, some kind of "installer" person came once or twice, and there was quite a bit of goings on and then, one day, voila! Bandwidth! Needless to say, I've been having a LITTLE bit of fun with it in between getting all this paperwork done! I hope we can have another session with the Cs soon too![/quote]

Yeeeeeah!
:D :thup: :clap: :clap:
 
I am intruigued by your commentary, Laura, I should think about this... :)

From my perspective, I haven't witnessed you doing any "music" yet! Perhaps you don't have the talent? Just the desire and you do what is easy: make nerve rattling, driving sounds that you call music? (Admittedly, a lot of other people call it "music" too, but consider the society that has made it a norm. I rest my case.)


Haha, OK, if you don't like that one I can understand. The reason i play like that a lot is that I enjoy the textures, with the distortion (on guitar) and everything, it's a challenge to get the drums soudning good, since they are electronic.
I can see where you would shy away from that, laura, I did write the entire thing with diminished scales! It's not the most harmonious sounds ever.

I suppose I should do the next piece with some aeolian harmonies or something, show you some softer stuff, probably. :)
 
On a final note, I don't believe in "talent." What i mean by that is I've always thought that the word "talent" implies that it is something you are born with, I strongly disagree with that notion.

Laura said:
Too bad you disagree since inborn - genetic - talent is probably more than 50% of a person's ability to do anything. We are not born blank slates that anyone or anything can write on as they wish (including ourselves).


and yet there is this, from SOTT a while back:

\\\http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/10/30/8391794/index.htm

What it takes to be great

Research now shows that the lack of natural talent is irrelevant to great success. The secret? Painful and demanding practice and hard work

[..]

Scientific experts are producing remarkably consistent findings across a wide array of fields. Understand that talent doesn't mean intelligence, motivation or personality traits. It's an innate ability to do some specific activity especially well. British-based researchers Michael J. Howe, Jane W. Davidson and John A. Sluboda conclude in an extensive study, "The evidence we have surveyed ... does not support the [notion that] excelling is a consequence of possessing innate gifts."

To see how the researchers could reach such a conclusion, consider the problem they were trying to solve. In virtually every field of endeavor, most people learn quickly at first, then more slowly and then stop developing completely. Yet a few do improve for years and even decades, and go on to greatness.

The irresistible question - the "fundamental challenge" for researchers in this field, says the most prominent of them, professor K. Anders Ericsson of Florida State University - is, Why? How are certain people able to go on improving? The answers begin with consistent observations about great performers in many fields.

Scientists worldwide have conducted scores of studies since the 1993 publication of a landmark paper by Ericsson and two colleagues, many focusing on sports, music and chess, in which performance is relatively easy to measure and plot over time. But plenty of additional studies have also examined other fields, including business.

No substitute for hard work

The first major conclusion is that nobody is great without work. It's nice to believe that if you find the field where you're naturally gifted, you'll be great from day one, but it doesn't happen. There's no evidence of high-level performance without experience or practice.

Reinforcing that no-free-lunch finding is vast evidence that even the most accomplished people need around ten years of hard work before becoming world-class, a pattern so well established researchers call it the ten-year rule.

What about Bobby Fischer, who became a chess grandmaster at 16? Turns out the rule holds: He'd had nine years of intensive study. And as John Horn of the University of Southern California and Hiromi Masunaga of California State University observe, "The ten-year rule represents a very rough estimate, and most researchers regard it as a minimum, not an average." In many fields (music, literature) elite performers need 20 or 30 years' experience before hitting their zenith.

So greatness isn't handed to anyone; it requires a lot of hard work. Yet that isn't enough, since many people work hard for decades without approaching greatness or even getting significantly better. What's missing?

Practice makes perfect

The best people in any field are those who devote the most hours to what the researchers call "deliberate practice." It's activity that's explicitly intended to improve performance, that reaches for objectives just beyond one's level of competence, provides feedback on results and involves high levels of repetition.

For example: Simply hitting a bucket of balls is not deliberate practice, which is why most golfers don't get better. Hitting an eight-iron 300 times with a goal of leaving the ball within 20 feet of the pin 80 percent of the time, continually observing results and making appropriate adjustments, and doing that for hours every day - that's deliberate practice.

Consistency is crucial. As Ericsson notes, "Elite performers in many diverse domains have been found to practice, on the average, roughly the same amount every day, including weekends."

Evidence crosses a remarkable range of fields. In a study of 20-year-old violinists by Ericsson and colleagues, the best group (judged by conservatory teachers) averaged 10,000 hours of deliberate practice over their lives; the next-best averaged 7,500 hours; and the next, 5,000. It's the same story in surgery, insurance sales, and virtually every sport. More deliberate practice equals better performance. Tons of it equals great performance.

The skeptics

Not all researchers are totally onboard with the myth-of-talent hypothesis, though their objections go to its edges rather than its center. For one thing, there are the intangibles. Two athletes might work equally hard, but what explains the ability of New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady to perform at a higher level in the last two minutes of a game?

Researchers also note, for example, child prodigies who could speak, read or play music at an unusually early age. But on investigation those cases generally include highly involved parents. And many prodigies do not go on to greatness in their early field, while great performers include many who showed no special early aptitude.

Certainly some important traits are partly inherited, such as physical size and particular measures of intelligence, but those influence what a person doesn't do more than what he does; a five-footer will never be an NFL lineman, and a seven-footer will never be an Olympic gymnast. Even those restrictions are less severe than you'd expect: Ericsson notes, "Some international chess masters have IQs in the 90s." The more research that's done, the more solid the deliberate-practice model becomes.

Real-world examples

All this scholarly research is simply evidence for what great performers have been showing us for years. To take a handful of examples: Winston Churchill, one of the 20th century's greatest orators, practiced his speeches compulsively. Vladimir Horowitz supposedly said, "If I don't practice for a day, I know it. If I don't practice for two days, my wife knows it. If I don't practice for three days, the world knows it." He was certainly a demon practicer, but the same quote has been attributed to world-class musicians like Ignace Paderewski and Luciano Pavarotti.

Many great athletes are legendary for the brutal discipline of their practice routines. In basketball, Michael Jordan practiced intensely beyond the already punishing team practices. (Had Jordan possessed some mammoth natural gift specifically for basketball, it seems unlikely he'd have been cut from his high school team.)

In football, all-time-great receiver Jerry Rice - passed up by 15 teams because they considered him too slow - practiced so hard that other players would get sick trying to keep up.

Tiger Woods is a textbook example of what the research shows. Because his father introduced him to golf at an extremely early age - 18 months - and encouraged him to practice intensively, Woods had racked up at least 15 years of practice by the time he became the youngest-ever winner of the U.S. Amateur Championship, at age 18. Also in line with the findings, he has never stopped trying to improve, devoting many hours a day to conditioning and practice, even remaking his swing twice because that's what it took to get even better.

[..]

Adopting a new mindset

Armed with that mindset, people go at a job in a new way. Research shows they process information more deeply and retain it longer. They want more information on what they're doing and seek other perspectives. They adopt a longer-term point of view. In the activity itself, the mindset persists. You aren't just doing the job, you're explicitly trying to get better at it in the larger sense.

Again, research shows that this difference in mental approach is vital. For example, when amateur singers take a singing lesson, they experience it as fun, a release of tension. But for professional singers, it's the opposite: They increase their concentration and focus on improving their performance during the lesson. Same activity, different mindset.

[..]

That's a lot to focus on for the benefits of deliberate practice - and worthless without one more requirement: Do it regularly, not sporadically.
Why?

For most people, work is hard enough without pushing even harder. Those extra steps are so difficult and painful they almost never get done. That's the way it must be. If great performance were easy, it wouldn't be rare. Which leads to possibly the deepest question about greatness. While experts understand an enormous amount about the behavior that produces great performance, they understand very little about where that behavior comes from.

The authors of one study conclude, "We still do not know which factors encourage individuals to engage in deliberate practice." Or as University of Michigan business school professor Noel Tichy puts it after 30 years of working with managers, "Some people are much more motivated than others, and that's the existential question I cannot answer - why."

[..]



So perhaps the "talented" people are the ones who were lucky enough to figure out what they like very much, and were highly motivated to see the ideal in it and strive towards it, working hard at it every day. Motivation is the key.
 
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