Third_Density_Resident
Jedi Council Member
NOTE: I originally had intended to post this reply where it technically belongs, that is, under the topic Monks lowering crime, 'Power of Attraction'. However since the topic ended up containing a lot of material that is essentially a reflection of "what's on my mind", I thought it would go much better here. Moderators, you might feel the post was better left where it was.
"Pontificate", in the context you used, means "to express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic".
I did not intend to come across as being annoyingly pompous or dogmatic. I was just trying to discuss some scientific facts relating to the effects that intention can have upon the microscopic and macroscopic world.
I will definitely endeavour to re-read the Wave series in the near future. However, I have just finished reading the chapter of the Wave you [anart] referenced ("Everywhere You Look, There is the Face of God"), which explains quite a lot about YCYOR, and so I am in a slightly better position to comment on the matter.
I'll begin by first stating that I agree with everything in that chapter. But after reading it, I still cannot see what is wrong with discussing certain scientific facts relating to the effect of consciousness upon matter. "Simple understandings" are universal and are closely related to assimilating knowledge to gain awareness and more free will. Therefore, understanding that thought affects reality can be considered the assimilation of more knowledge and therefore the gaining of more awareness. By knowing that our thoughts can have certain effects upon our surroundings, we have more free will because we can then choose NOT to project certain thoughts towards people because that would be a breach of THEIR free will. (Incidentally, the very fact that "bombarding the planet with love and light" is frowned upon so much by the Cs and everyone on these forums, is acknowledgment that such projections of the mind DO have an effect.)
Some other posters in the original forum have confused what I've said with advocating that one use their thoughts to change reality at the expense of free will. I'm not saying that at all. I am saying that this power of thought DOES exist, but that does not necessarily mean we should use such power in all situations. There are situations when I believe such power is acceptable (explained below). In any case, even when we DON'T consciously project certain intents, our thoughts are STILL having an effect upon 3D reality whether we like it or not. Case in point: I'm sure many people are familiar with the quantum physicists who have done experiments that show how the state of a system only crystallises upon conscious observation. In other words, the universe "collapses" into one state whereas before the observation, it existed in many states simultaneously. This is happening constantly, all around us, in every moment. In most instances it's undetectable because it occurs only at the quantum level.
Science, as imperfect as it is, is supposed to be about the gaining of more knowledge. Well the Cs have stated clearly that the passion for knowledge is not actually a passion, but "soul questing". In light of this, I therefore see nothing wrong with discussing science, which is all I ever did. Our ideologies and beliefs should never come before objectivity, as we all know. Science strives to be objective. Hence letting the science speak for itself is all we need do to remain objective, at least in the "scientific domain".
I certainly don't believe that thinking nice thoughts or affirmations will bring ONLY what you want to see in life. But I am saying that science has shown, time and time again, that highly specific affirmations do seem to have an observable effect. Very general projections of sending "love and light" to the whole planet is a huge breach of free will. But sending positive affirmations to someone who is dying of cancer and WANTS such projections is not. I know that Bluelamp has suggested the case of someone dying from cancer as possibly being that person's lesson in life or whatever, but who is to say that that person's lesson isn't to learn more about the power of intention and "positive thinking"? (By the way, I KNOW people who have cured themselves from certain cancers by meditation alone.) A person with cancer, by Bluelamp's logic, ought not to get ANY treatment at all because that could be breaching the "will of the universe". Similarly, someone diagnosed with a gluten intolerance ought not to avoid foods which contain gluten. But getting effective cancer treatment (in whatever form) or changing one's diet is simply another way of changing one's reality from a life of pain to one with less pain. Why should such people be denied that right? Why should they just accept the universe as it IS and die from the cancer or suffer the gluten-causing pain? Using certain methods to improve one's health, such as using positive affirmations or giving permission for people to pray for them, is also changing reality. It should be no different from changing reality using "normal" means as far as the universe is concerned. And I can't see how in these cases it breaches the free will of anyone, nor how it adds to the chaos and entropy of the universe. It seems to me as if the only "taboo" that exists around YCYOR, therefore, is if that reality-changing involves "non-normal" methods such as the power of intention as opposed to physical methods.
And this is why I find the following quote difficult to accept. (It does not come from the chapter of the Wave referenced above.) I would love to know how it fits harmoniously with the examples I've just given.
I can totally appreciate the value of seeing the universe as objectively as possible and how it IS and not believing anything without data to support it. But I can see this as valuable only in the sense that any steps that are taken to address certain problems are made with the objective truth in mind. By knowing the TRUE SOURCE of problems, we can provide a TRUE and lasting solution (all without breaching free will, of course), as opposed to providing pseudo-solutions to problems because the problem was never defined objectively to begin with.
Does not SOTT endeavour to CHANGE the way people perceive the world by providing as objective an understanding of how this world (and indeed universe) truly operates? The changing of how people perceive the world (after said people choose to have their perception changed of course) will necessarily change reality and the future. And this is in effect changing how the universe IS, is it not?
To add further confusion, this discussion with the Cs occurred:
This at least explains why we DO create our own reality, but ONLY if we don't have any anticipation about what's to come. So SOTT are trying to create a better reality for people, but they DON'T ANTICIPATE the specifics. But then the confusion arises because of scientific experiments which show that the more specific one is about a particular intent, the more successful will be the outcome.
Having said all of the above, I will no doubt be told that I have totally misunderstood what "accepting the universe as it IS" really means. I look forward to having this cleared up, as it's been on my mind for a long time now!
(And by the way, I've actually felt confused about the apparent contradictions with YCYOR ever since I last finished reading The Wave. I do not recall seeing any resolutions of such contradictions in that book (hence the confusion), nor can I recall any explanations elsewhere. The more recent scientific literature on the matter has only added more confusion in my mind.)
anart said:Please take the time to re-read the Wave series before pontificating further.
"Pontificate", in the context you used, means "to express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic".
I did not intend to come across as being annoyingly pompous or dogmatic. I was just trying to discuss some scientific facts relating to the effects that intention can have upon the microscopic and macroscopic world.
I will definitely endeavour to re-read the Wave series in the near future. However, I have just finished reading the chapter of the Wave you [anart] referenced ("Everywhere You Look, There is the Face of God"), which explains quite a lot about YCYOR, and so I am in a slightly better position to comment on the matter.
I'll begin by first stating that I agree with everything in that chapter. But after reading it, I still cannot see what is wrong with discussing certain scientific facts relating to the effect of consciousness upon matter. "Simple understandings" are universal and are closely related to assimilating knowledge to gain awareness and more free will. Therefore, understanding that thought affects reality can be considered the assimilation of more knowledge and therefore the gaining of more awareness. By knowing that our thoughts can have certain effects upon our surroundings, we have more free will because we can then choose NOT to project certain thoughts towards people because that would be a breach of THEIR free will. (Incidentally, the very fact that "bombarding the planet with love and light" is frowned upon so much by the Cs and everyone on these forums, is acknowledgment that such projections of the mind DO have an effect.)
Some other posters in the original forum have confused what I've said with advocating that one use their thoughts to change reality at the expense of free will. I'm not saying that at all. I am saying that this power of thought DOES exist, but that does not necessarily mean we should use such power in all situations. There are situations when I believe such power is acceptable (explained below). In any case, even when we DON'T consciously project certain intents, our thoughts are STILL having an effect upon 3D reality whether we like it or not. Case in point: I'm sure many people are familiar with the quantum physicists who have done experiments that show how the state of a system only crystallises upon conscious observation. In other words, the universe "collapses" into one state whereas before the observation, it existed in many states simultaneously. This is happening constantly, all around us, in every moment. In most instances it's undetectable because it occurs only at the quantum level.
Science, as imperfect as it is, is supposed to be about the gaining of more knowledge. Well the Cs have stated clearly that the passion for knowledge is not actually a passion, but "soul questing". In light of this, I therefore see nothing wrong with discussing science, which is all I ever did. Our ideologies and beliefs should never come before objectivity, as we all know. Science strives to be objective. Hence letting the science speak for itself is all we need do to remain objective, at least in the "scientific domain".
Laura Knight-Jadczyk said:The possessor of unveiling comes to know that he is ever-creating and has always been such, though he was not aware. But it is not the case that he is "ever creating" from his own limited will and desires, but rather that he comes to know that the All is ever-creating THROUGH him, though he may not have previously known this.
It is in this sense that the idea "you create your own reality" has been most seriously distorted and corrupted to mean "if you just think nice thoughts, chant or say affirmations, or see nothing but what you want in your life, it will happen!" Nothing is further from the truth! This corrupted teaching leads, in fact, to the most serious error of discourtesy toward God which is to actually AVOID giving each thing its due which generally leads to rather unpleasant repercussions as you can see from my own experience. I was such a firm believer in "giving until it hurts," and "turning the other cheek," and "sending love and light" that when I finally DID see, it nearly killed me!
I certainly don't believe that thinking nice thoughts or affirmations will bring ONLY what you want to see in life. But I am saying that science has shown, time and time again, that highly specific affirmations do seem to have an observable effect. Very general projections of sending "love and light" to the whole planet is a huge breach of free will. But sending positive affirmations to someone who is dying of cancer and WANTS such projections is not. I know that Bluelamp has suggested the case of someone dying from cancer as possibly being that person's lesson in life or whatever, but who is to say that that person's lesson isn't to learn more about the power of intention and "positive thinking"? (By the way, I KNOW people who have cured themselves from certain cancers by meditation alone.) A person with cancer, by Bluelamp's logic, ought not to get ANY treatment at all because that could be breaching the "will of the universe". Similarly, someone diagnosed with a gluten intolerance ought not to avoid foods which contain gluten. But getting effective cancer treatment (in whatever form) or changing one's diet is simply another way of changing one's reality from a life of pain to one with less pain. Why should such people be denied that right? Why should they just accept the universe as it IS and die from the cancer or suffer the gluten-causing pain? Using certain methods to improve one's health, such as using positive affirmations or giving permission for people to pray for them, is also changing reality. It should be no different from changing reality using "normal" means as far as the universe is concerned. And I can't see how in these cases it breaches the free will of anyone, nor how it adds to the chaos and entropy of the universe. It seems to me as if the only "taboo" that exists around YCYOR, therefore, is if that reality-changing involves "non-normal" methods such as the power of intention as opposed to physical methods.
And this is why I find the following quote difficult to accept. (It does not come from the chapter of the Wave referenced above.) I would love to know how it fits harmoniously with the examples I've just given.
Laura Knight-Jadczyk said:In short, everyone who "believes" in an attempt to "create reality" that is different from what IS, adds to the increase of chaos and entropy. If your beliefs are orthogonal to the truth, no matter how strongly you believe them, you are essentially coming into conflict with how the Universe views itself and I can assure you, you ain't gonna win that contest. You are inviting destruction upon yourself and all who engage in this "staring down the universe" exercise with you.
On the other hand, if you are able to view the Universe as it views itself, objectively, without blinking, and with acceptance, you then become more "aligned" with the Creative energy of the universe and your very consciousness becomes a transducer of order energy. Your energy of observation, given unconditionally, can bring order to chaos, can create out of infinite potential.[...]
I can totally appreciate the value of seeing the universe as objectively as possible and how it IS and not believing anything without data to support it. But I can see this as valuable only in the sense that any steps that are taken to address certain problems are made with the objective truth in mind. By knowing the TRUE SOURCE of problems, we can provide a TRUE and lasting solution (all without breaching free will, of course), as opposed to providing pseudo-solutions to problems because the problem was never defined objectively to begin with.
Does not SOTT endeavour to CHANGE the way people perceive the world by providing as objective an understanding of how this world (and indeed universe) truly operates? The changing of how people perceive the world (after said people choose to have their perception changed of course) will necessarily change reality and the future. And this is in effect changing how the universe IS, is it not?
To add further confusion, this discussion with the Cs occurred:
Cs said:Q: (L) OK, we've been talking earlier this evening about intent, and of course, our own experiences with intent have really been pretty phenomenal. We've come to some kind of an idea that intent, when confirmed repeatedly, actually builds force. Is this a correct concept, and is there anything that you can add to it?
A: Only until anticipation muddies the picture... tricky one, huh?
Q: (L) Is anticipation the act of assuming you know how something is going to happen?
A: Follows realization, generally, and unfortunately for you, on 3rd density. You see, once anticipation enters the picture, the intent can no longer be STO.
Q: (L) Anticipation is desire for something for self. Is that it?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) OK, so it's OK to intend something, or to think in an intentional way, or to hope in an intentional way, for something that is to serve another...
A: And that brings realization. But, realization creates anticipation.
Q: (L) Well, how do we navigate this razor? I mean, this is like walking on a razor's edge. To control your mind to not anticipate, and yet, deal with realization, and yet, still maintain hope...
A: Mental exercises of denial, balanced with pure faith of a nonprejudicial kind.
Q: (L) OK, so, in other words, to just accept what is at the moment, appreciate it as it is at the moment, and have faith that the universe and things will happen the way they are supposed to happen, without placing any expectation on how that will be, and keep on working?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) We have discussed a lot of concepts about "shaping the future." In our discussions, we have hypothesized that it is something like an intentional act of shaping something good, but without defining the moment of measurement. In other words, adding energy to it by intent, but not deciding where, when or how the moment of measurement occurs. Like a quantum jump: you know it is statistically likely, but not definite, so you cannot "expect" it, but you observe so that you can notice when it occurs on it's own, and in it's own way.
A: Yes. Avoiding anticipation. That is the key to shaping the future... When it hits you, it stops.
Q: (L) When what hits you? The fact that it's happening? That you are doing it?
A: Yes unless you cancel out all anticipation.
Q: (L) Well, this is very tricky.
A: Ah? We have doubts... And yes, you create your own reality!
Q: Well, but you have also said that anticipation messes things up, and so I don't want to have any anticipation.
A: Anticipation is not creating one's own reality.
This at least explains why we DO create our own reality, but ONLY if we don't have any anticipation about what's to come. So SOTT are trying to create a better reality for people, but they DON'T ANTICIPATE the specifics. But then the confusion arises because of scientific experiments which show that the more specific one is about a particular intent, the more successful will be the outcome.
Having said all of the above, I will no doubt be told that I have totally misunderstood what "accepting the universe as it IS" really means. I look forward to having this cleared up, as it's been on my mind for a long time now!
(And by the way, I've actually felt confused about the apparent contradictions with YCYOR ever since I last finished reading The Wave. I do not recall seeing any resolutions of such contradictions in that book (hence the confusion), nor can I recall any explanations elsewhere. The more recent scientific literature on the matter has only added more confusion in my mind.)