Civil War in Ukraine: Western Empire vs Russia

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Oleg NN said:
No more comments, you can go on with your absurd ideas further if you wish, I've said enough.
Indeed. You've said that twice now and yet continue to post.

Oleg NN said:
I have seen the "American list" of the sort before, thank you.
So you're not really interested in reading that article and by extension, probably not interested in hearing what anyone hear has to say. Your cup really is full, then and you may want to consider that you're in the wrong bar.
 
It might be a bombshell.

Confidential document on Ukraine by the RAND Corporation leaked. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko follows the action plan proposed by RAND analysts.

GR Editor’s Note: This report remains to be confirmed. So far we have not been able to corroborate this report from other news sources.

Confidential document on Ukraine by the RAND Corporation leaked. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko follows the action plan proposed by RAND analysts.

This Memorandum on the “advisable course of action” automatically means that the peace plan confirmed by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko is slated to fail.

The document provides three stages for the conduct of a military operation in eastern Ukraine.

The first stage implies total isolation of the region considering that all local citizens are terrorists or sympathizers.

The Region should be encircled with troops and sealed off entirely from any flow of goods and persons. Broadcasting services, Internet connection, telephone and mobile communications in the region shall be shut down.

The second stage is named Mop-up.

Ground assaults shall be preceded by air strikes against the strategic facilities. The use of non-conventional arms is allowed.

The document also provides for internment camps outside the cleared settlements. People featuring traces of combat engagement shall be tried in court for terrorism.

During the third stage Back to Normal power supplies and communications shall be restored. The borders shall be strengthened to avoid possible provocations. All the refugees should be checked for possible support for separatists in internment camps.

Special focus shall be made on information security. All foreign media shall be blocked there.

Source and the whole document: _http://www.globalresearch.ca/president-poroshenko-uses-rand-corporation-action-plan-for-eastern-ukraine-including-ground-assaults-and-air-strikes/5389795


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truth seeker said:
Oleg NN said:
No more comments, you can go on with your absurd ideas further if you wish, I've said enough.
So you're not really interested in reading that article and by extension, probably not interested in hearing what anyone hear has to say. Your cup really is full, then and you may want to consider that you're in the wrong bar.

- Why not? I read the whole things that everybody writes to me here. And I know the most part of these arguments as I have heard them before.

So the general idea is that the Ukrainians are to choose between the far-far-away bad guys and the very close bad-bad guys at the moment, aren't they?
 
Oleg NN said:
truth seeker said:
Oleg NN said:
No more comments, you can go on with your absurd ideas further if you wish, I've said enough.
So you're not really interested in reading that article and by extension, probably not interested in hearing what anyone hear has to say. Your cup really is full, then and you may want to consider that you're in the wrong bar.

- Why not? I read the whole things that everybody writes to me here. And I know the most part of these arguments as I have heard them before.
I think that's it in a nutshell. Your "knowledge" interferes with you being able to consider any information that doesn't support your current worldview so there's really no conversation going on but seems more like one person basically attempting to muddy the waters and utilizing this forum in order to gain members to support their cause.

Since you feel so passionately about this issue, perhaps it would be better if you found likeminded individuals elsewhere on the internet to share your knowledge with.
 
The document also provides for internment camps outside the cleared settlements.

- Somethinf new for you? We have already seen how the news of the "camps" was thrown on the anti-Ukrainian media space for the fan. For example - our Stopfake.org that constantly examines the "news" that flies from the fan, writes on July 12, 2014:

...The photo of the evacuated girl is haunted by Pravda.RU and on 18 June. This photo is signed already by the news that "Novorussians are waiting the filtration camps". In the text it was the words of Acting Defense Minister Koval on expediency to create the filtration camps to search for terrorists. But Pravda.RU wrote that it will be about all-pervasive repression and almost cleansing, even children are not envied
_http://www.stopfake.org/manipulyatsiya-odnoj-fotografiej-ot-bezhentsev-v-rostov-do-filtratsionnyh-lagerej/

And here is a message from Russian ITAR-TASS of their inquire to RAND of the issue -
_http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1299753

Stopfake.org also commented the fake - _http://www.stopfake.org/v-amerikanskom-rand-oprovergli-informatsiyu-o-razrabotke-plana-silovoj-operatsii-dlya-poroshenko/

As you see - the text of the "document" seems to be a Russian product with some specific mistakes of its English - according to the proffessional translator commented this one.
 
truth seeker said:
I think that's it in a nutshell. Your "knowledge" interferes with you being able to consider any information that doesn't support your current worldview so there's really no conversation going on but seems more like one person basically attempting to muddy the waters and utilizing this forum in order to gain members to support their cause.

Since you feel so passionately about this issue, perhaps it would be better if you found likeminded individuals elsewhere on the internet to share your knowledge with.

- I do not discuss anything "on the whole". If someone shows me the list of the US direct interference in war conflict around the world - what I have to discuss? Ukraine is not a place of such list as the US does not take part in our war nor directly as Russia does not by sending here weapons or ammunition. I would not talk of the bad guys somewhere else around the world at the moment. If we were not at war with Russia right now - I could talk of another bad guys if I wish. But at the moment I have much more actual threat right in my country. And to tell in the topic that some guys ALSO play a bad game somewhere in the world is not interesting for me. Sorry.

It would look like if in 1940 some British would take part in discussion about how the South African government mistreats black population of the country - when the Luftwaffe bombs rained down on London and Coventry. Sorry for not joining the topic of your live interest.
 
Oleg, your reversive blockade and paramoralistic techniques are well-known here so I'm going to suspend your posting privileges because it's just noise and a waste of everybody else's time.

:wrongbar: :bye:
 
I think it is clear that Oleg has been at war with Russia his whole life and not Russia being at war with him or Ukraine. And when fellow Ukrainians can't make him see the light, then better for him to go somewhere else and make up his own forum.
 
Laura said:
Oleg, your reversive blockade and paramoralistic techniques are well-known here so I'm going to suspend your posting privileges because it's just noise and a waste of everybody else's time.

:wrongbar: :bye:

That was a never ending stream of reversive blockade and paramoralisms that just won't quit. Amazingly among all the other BS he spewed, he even tried to "rehabilitate" Stepan Bandera. THAT'S what I call gall.
 
Can our Russian readers check into this? Allegedly, the heads of two NAF fighters were sent to their families the day after the truce was signed, at least that's what people on facebook are saying. _http://ion24.ru/2014/09/09/ukrainskie-karateli-prislali-materyam-doneckih-opolchencev-otrezannye-golovy-synovey.html
 
Approaching Infinity said:
Can our Russian readers check into this? Allegedly, the heads of two NAF fighters were sent to their families the day after the truce was signed, at least that's what people on facebook are saying. _http://ion24.ru/2014/09/09/ukrainskie-karateli-prislali-materyam-doneckih-opolchencev-otrezannye-golovy-synovey.html

There are a lot of sites that copied the same news, that originate from NTV news report (in Russian). But, it turns out to be fake. Not the heads, but the country of origin. Here's what Alexander Kotz (Komsomol'skaya Pravda journalist that is currently in Donbass) said (translation follows):

«Ох, я думал, что про отрезанные головы ополченцев - это фейк. Ан нет, уже и фото появились. Найдете без труда, я выкладывать не буду. Всё-таки про отрезанные головы, как и предполагалось, фейк, растиражированные фотки - из Сирии. Еще не дошли здесь до такого уровня озверения».

I thought that the heads of militia men [being sent to their mothers] is a fake. But no, there are already pictures. You can easily find them, I am not going to share them. But, as was suspected, it's a fake, because the pictures that are being spread far and wide are from Syria. We don't have this kind of brutality here, yet.
 
Approaching Infinity said:
Can our Russian readers check into this? Allegedly, the heads of two NAF fighters were sent to their families the day after the truce was signed, at least that's what people on facebook are saying. _http://ion24.ru/2014/09/09/ukrainskie-karateli-prislali-materyam-doneckih-opolchencev-otrezannye-golovy-synovey.html

Oh my god... The article says that the exact number of these parcels is unknown but these two were of captivated pro-Russian rebels. Article mentions as well it could have been done by the Right Sector. The Ukrainian representatives rushly blamed Chechnya's (?!) separatists allegedly operating in the East Ukraine. Experts said the heads were cut off as the soldiers were still alive...
 
I guess that the CNN (and that kind of crap) will blame Chechens who fight for Novorussia. You know the story “They are Muslims!” “They cut people’s heads!”. It is popular last days, thanks to CIA in Syria and Iraq. The same psychopathic mind behind the both.

BTW as Serbian volunteers says, Chechens are great fighters and very sober and honest guys and not “blood thirsty muslim mujahedeen” type

Also Chechens said that in Ukraine is operating group which is led by some Georgian psychopathic guy called “Doberman”, who is known for things like that, and who was operating in Chechnya war on terrorists’ side. In few occasion before the ceasefire they almost managed to catch him.
 
Laura said:
I reckon Oleg can be assessed as part of this psyop:

http://rt.com/politics/186252-russian-maidan-yabloko-dollars/

Representatives of the recently-founded anti-Maidan council claim that the veteran pro-democracy party has received millions from the US and plans to overthrow the Russian government with the help of Ukrainian and Georgian spin doctors.

The head of the Anti-Fascist anti-Maidan council, Evgeny Shabayev has told the popular mass circulation daily Izvestia that his group possessed information about Ukrainian and Georgian citizens who played major roles in preparations to the violent events leading to displacement of governments and dissolution of parliaments in these countries – the so-called ‘color revolutions’. Now these people arrive in Russia and start talks with representatives of the pro-democracy opposition party Yabloko and other opposition groups in order to prepare and launch a similar regime change in Russia, the activist claimed.

According to Shabayev, at present stage Yabloko together with members of the Solidarity group are holding a string of single-person protests. Over 1,000 people have been hired to participate in them and each signed a contract to picket for 15 days for a $2,500 fee. The total budget of the event amounts to over 90 million rubles (about $2.4 million) and it will end with a massive rally on September 21.

The activist noted that the timing of protests is tied with the approaching national voting day, which falls on September 14. He said that the most intense and numerous protests will take place in major cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg (Moscow is holding elections to the city legislature and St. Petersburg is holding its mayoral poll).

Shabayev also said that it was obvious for him that the whole scenario is backed by the US Department of State as the United States is interested in changing the political system in Russia, as already happened in Georgia, Ukraine, Libya and other countries where the ‘color revolutions’ had succeeded.

Boris Nemtsov of the opposition party Parnas (People’s Freedom Party) has confirmed that a major rally called the March of Peace was scheduled for September 21 and that it was organized together with Yabloko.

The Yabloko party has strongly denied receiving funds from any foreign state as well as organizing any protests. However, a source in the Moscow City Hall has told Izvestia that the pickets in the city center had been organized by Yabloko and the participants were protesting for fees.

The Anti-Maidan Council was formed in August this year by veterans of the Russian military and special forces together with rights activists and representatives of Orthodox Christian community. The main goal of the group was announced as thwarting attempts to forcefully change the political system in Russia by informing citizens of the methods of Western propaganda. The council also plans to organize own rallies and events in order to promote the interests of the Russian state and prevent ethnic tensions in the nation’s regions.


The Yabloko party was founded in 1993 and is one of the oldest in Russia. The party promotes the ideas of democracy and social liberalism and it was fairly popular in mid-1990s, winning about 10 percent of seats in the lower house in 1995. However, since then the public support for Yabloko has dwindled and the party got no seats in the State Duma in 2007 and 2011.

Just a little point here: notice what "democracy and social liberalism" have done to the US where there is SO MUCH "democracy" and "social liberalism."

Just my opinion here: i think that those planned rallies for 21 September will fail embarrassingly.Why? Because the Russian people are not stupid, they are seeing how their government have/are handled/handling the Ukrainian crisis and most of the Russian population supports the government decisions because the Russian government indeed represents the people of Russia and cares for it's neighbor(Ukraine) not like Western countries where the governments are representing the interests of the 1% elite and don't give a damn on rest of the people.I will not be surprised if those planned rallies when will occur, the Russian population itself firstly will try friendly to explain to those so called protesters to calm down and to not agitate the waters and of course there will be a great chance that somehow the friendly talking between the two camps could escalate into a violent clash started by some masked thugs... but this is not Ukraine so the maidan scenario won't succeed I'm 10000000 % sure of that,i think the so called opposition will have the asses kicked by the normal people if they will dare to create something near to the Maidan scenario and the the police will have to protect the opposition form the angry,frustrated normal people that just don't buy anymore the western bullshit and machinations,because most of the Russian population still remember what happend in the '90 when the west tried to bring democracy to the barbaric Russia(almost destroying the whole Russian economy,approximately 72 million people starving-yes this is true western democracy).

edit: spell check.
 
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