I suggest a question about Lula (president of Brazil)

But also, let's remember that we don't need to fit people into a single box in our lives, people may have really good things in certain areas and really awful ones in certain others.

So, perhaps he's not good or evil, or super clever playing both sides, maybe he's simply himself, and he sees the world as he announces it, likes Russia, and is a left leaning politician, which means he panders to the woke mob, but dislikes Israel, ideologically or otherwise.

I think most human beings are like that, and perhaps that's the better question to explore, is Lula da Silva a human being, and if so, he will go in several different directions and some of them will align with ours and some of them will not.
 
I remembered, at that time it was similar to Trump's, and stolen one.

There is a massive manifestation today in Sao Paulo, a called from Bolsonaro, the momentum being pushed, I guess.

But, Bolsonaro being in the wrong side of history this time, solidarity... Solidarity approving genocide. What twisted things are we seeing, isn't it?



🇧🇷 #Brazil Mass protest in Sao Paulo today calling for the impeachment of President Lula, which may turn out to be one of the largest protests in the country's recent history

The protest is taking place in support of former Brazilian President Bolsonaro, who is facing arrest.

 
But also, let's remember that we don't need to fit people into a single box in our lives, people may have really good things in certain areas and really awful ones in certain others.

So, perhaps he's not good or evil, or super clever playing both sides, maybe he's simply himself, and he sees the world as he announces it, likes Russia, and is a left leaning politician, which means he panders to the woke mob, but dislikes Israel, ideologically or otherwise.

I think most human beings are like that, and perhaps that's the better question to explore, is Lula da Silva a human being, and if so, he will go in several different directions and some of them will align with ours and some of them will not.
It took me ten years of frustration to stop trying to categorize people as "good" vs "bad", so I kind of agree with you. People are human (are OPs human?) and everyone is a mixed bag of good and self-serving intentions, successes and failures, etc, politicians included.

However, we here are very much aware of the existence of psychopaths in positions of power and the damage they cause. Is Lula a psychopath? I don't think so, my guess is that he got corrupted by power and the luxuries it brings, enjoying its excesses with his new 20 years younger wife. Also, from his interviews with lefties, he came back from prison seeking revenge, which might have been a self-serving "hook" to the dark side.

Is it righteous anger or did his heart darkened and fell to temptation? Who knows but IMO, besides the covid/lgbx/woke BS, at the very least he IS complicit in the criminalization of dissent that took over the country since the events of October 2022-Jan 8th, 2023.

Which brings me to the fact that IMO the real political protagonist in Brazil in the last years was neither Lula nor Bolsonaro but the Supreme Court, especially its current president, who doubles as the head of the Supreme Electoral Court. For background, the Supreme Court has significantly enlarged its own powers over the past 20 years. As it currently stands, their decisions are automatically mandatory for all other judges in the country, they exercise quasi-legislative powers and are able to subjugate both congress and government. They have their own police and they've given themselves the power to investigate, prosecute and judge at the same time. The meme is that the country should be renamed Xandaquistão, as he is the actual ruler. To our detriment their ideology is globalist-woke-authoritarian, fully backed by Lula. When Lula took office on Jan 1st, Moraes' speech got the spotlight.

As I see it, bolsonaristas were used as useful idiots during Oct/22 - Jan 8th/23 and multiple false-flag attacks were carried out so we could finally have some "terrorrists" in the country. Crackdown ensues.

Some facts I can remember from the aftermath of the elections:

- Hours after Lula's victory was announced road blocks appeared all over the country. In a couple of days days there was mention of over a thousand, the highway police attested at least 350.

- The Supreme Court fined and froze assets of everyone they could attach to the road blocks, including important grain and transport companies, reminding me of the Canada convoy protest.

- Bolsonaro said to not block the roads. Instead, people were encouraged to make their voices heard in front of military buildings. People all over the country set up camps with chairs, food, tents etc. They seemed peaceful and mostly composed of older people. To my surprise they stayed put through heavy rains, the world cup and even after Lula officially took office. 2023_Brazilian_election_protests

- The Supreme Court tries to disband the protests by force, bypassing state governors by calling in all heads of state police so they would act in unison against the protesters.

- Mid-December It comes to light that Brazilian diplomats were coluding to sabotage Bolsonaro's foreign policy.

- On December 24, the day of Lula's inauguration ceremony, a man set off an explosion in Brasilia, allegedly a bolsonarista.

- On January 8th, 2023, a peaceful protest in the capital turns into a "terrorist attack". All points to an inside job. A copy-paste of the US capitol attack. This was the day that made bolsonaristas, ie, half the country, into terrorists. As you know, we can't have those, have to hunt them down etc. 2023_Brazilian_Congress_attack

- Between Jan 8th and Jan 18 there were multiple attacks to transmissions lines thousands of kilometers apart, allegedly by bolsonaristas terrorists.

Some results that followed:
- The Supreme Court has procured a digital surveillance company to track down citizens "anti-democratic" opinions on the net 24/7.
- Most relevant conservative politicians had their social media cancelled by the Supreme Court.
- Judges and prosecutors were removed for antagonizing the Supreme Court. The youtube channel with the interviews and testimonies has been removed also.
- Lula signs a law aimed at stand-up comedians: jokes related to race, religion or nationality can get you 5+ years in prison (not a joke)
- Lula issues a Decree that creates the Democratic Union Defense Office to suppress "fake news" against public policies .
- Moraes through the Supreme Electoral Court makes Bolsonaro ineligible until 2030.

This is incomplete and spotty but I hope it helps explain why, from my limited perspective, it made a lot of sense when the Cs replied that "Lula was initiated". It fits with the bigger picture of the country also being "taken in" the woke-globalist-authoritarian paradigm. Lula's been enforcing in government what the Supreme Court is enforcing in the judiciary, which is the same as in the US, Canada, most of Europe etc. Osit.
 
But, Bolsonaro being in the wrong side of history this time, solidarity... Solidarity approving genocide. What twisted things are we seeing, isn't it?
Yes, world is bizarre. I'm waiting for the day someone proves to me that all we see from Gaza is fake news and we should actually pity Israel. Because, you know, I've never been there, so, who knows.

holy #&@*

they're all robots aren't they
Very difficult to not be robot. You unrobotize a little bit here and there, but still lots of robot going on. And if you miss a beat it robotizes again. Osit.
 
This is incomplete and spotty but I hope it helps explain why, from my limited perspective, it made a lot of sense when the Cs replied that "Lula was initiated". It fits with the bigger picture of the country also being "taken in" the woke-globalist-authoritarian paradigm. Lula's been enforcing in government what the Supreme Court is enforcing in the judiciary, which is the same as in the US, Canada, most of Europe etc. Osit.
Good points, in which case the point stands, from a practical point of view, he might following his own agenda or fits into a larger one that he's either consciously or unconsciously participating in. But he's also not taken Brazil out of BRICS, so at least he has that going for him, he could've pulled a Milei for instance. Because BRICS is the biggest obstacle to the globalist agenda.

For now, he has been giving Israel a lot of negative attention, and that is positive IMO, this was Brazil at the UN today:

"We may be witnessing a crime of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity, given the evidence of forced displacement and ethnic cleansing," he said in his speech.

However, he criticized Israel's reaction to these attacks because "with each passing day it becomes clear that Israel's reaction to the attack suffered is disproportionate and does not target only those responsible for the attacks, but the entire Palestinian people, it is a collective punishment," he lamented.
 
To be honest, I don't think there are any good guys in real positions of power. As I am sure most people here are aware, the whole left versus right paradigm is false, with bad actors filling both sides. I personally think that is true both in terms of "capitalism vs socialism" (if you look closely at how both sides implement them, in reality both pursue what I would call "corporatism") and I think East vs. West as well is a false dichotomy. You can certainly say that on a temporary time period one or the other might be better. Trump better than Biden, BRICS better than US hegemony.

But ultimately, I think the elites win either way until the people stand up and demand more from their leaders. As bad as Biden is, you know that Trump would probably be with Milei and Bolsonaro on the whole Israel issue supporting them close to 100% (with the only thing that might deter those instincts being that Trump thinks Netanyahu was disloyal to him after the election). And let's not forget how Trump supported Warp Speed vax, filled his administration with known swamp creatures like Bill Barr, Mike Pompeo, John Bolton, etc., tried to oust the legitimate government of Venezuela with a random guy who had no claims to the presidency at all, bombed Syria TWICE when he had to have known there was no chemical attack, and then sent people in to illegally steal Syria's oil! It is only because the other alternative is so freaking incompetent, and the Republicans in his own party are so blatantly corporatist, that Trump looks comparatively like a hero. But neither option is great for the people speaking objectively based on his record (vs what he says...). I suspect that when World War IV finishes, people will have buyer's remorse no matter who the winner is because there will likely be another consolidation of power that is not good for the people.

Until the entire nature of government itself changes and control is decentralized, we are going to continue to have psychopaths rising to the top causing problems for the rest of us. What I think is different now is that the people of the world have been pushed so far to the brink, a true awakening is possible and that is what the elites are truly afraid of. Thus the push to do CBDCs and high tech censorship etc, ASAP! I think the genie is out of the bottle and they will not succeed this time. At least I hope so...
 
For now, he has been giving Israel a lot of negative attention, and that is positive IMO, this was Brazil at the UN today:
A lot of negative attention that is already paying off. Today's Brazil VS X(Elon Musk) mess was - it seems - started by a Brazilian deputy who was very indignant about Lula's statements and his party Novo, was going to file criminal complaint against Lula due his statements about Israel
According to federal deputy Marcel van Hattem (Novo-RS), Lula will be denounced for the crime of racism and the action will be taken to the Attorney General's Office (PGR)
I do not know if the complaint has proceeded, but this man is here in X's complaining against censorship.

Note: Alexandre de Alexandre de Moraes is a Brazilian jurist, currently serving as president of the Superior Electoral Court (He was in charge when Lula won, and was the one who ordered Bolsonaro to be censore); and as a justice of the Supreme Federal Court.

As a member of the Brazilian Congress who has been exposing and combatting the abuses of our Supreme Court for years, I want to express my deepest gratitude to @elonmusk.


Elon, you are currently aiding Brazil more than many members of the Brazilian House and Senate. You are representing millions of Brazilians who oppose censorship and tyranny far better than their elected representatives, who still refuse to investigate and impeach Supreme Court justices.


I am confident that this will change now: @shellenberger's collaboration with @david_agape_ and @EliVieiraJr on the Brazilian Twitter Files, in a genuine investigative journalism effort, exposed the Brazilian dictator @alexandre de Moraes to the world.


By the way, I am one of the countless Brazilians featured in the files for being illegally monitored by the Supreme Court. I was also censored without due process and threatened with a hefty fine per day if I posted anything the Court disapproved of - but I never remained silent. In the case of Twitter, the former legal counsel Rafael Batista's refusal to provide Moraes with user information without valid grounds, even under the threat of illegal prosecution and persecution, was heroic.


Your determination, @elonmusk, to commend that stance and go further by lifting all restrictions on the accounts of Brazilians who were illegally censored shows a man of principles and provides us all with inspiration and renewed motivation to fight the tyrants.


There are currently thousands of Brazilians persecuted by Moraes: ordinary citizens censored, with their assets illegally frozen; journalists and judges exiled, with their passports seized by Mr. Moraes without justification; lawyers denied access to their clients' cases; hundreds still imprisoned without due process, let alone conviction.


One man, Clezão, passed away last November in prison after nearly a year of incarceration in deplorable health conditions by order of Alexandre de Moraes. The federal prosecutor had requested his release more than two months before his death, but Moraes ignored it. Clezão's wife, Jane, and their two daughters, Ana Luiza (22) and Klezia (19), will no longer have their father's company due to the tyrannical actions of Alexandre de Moraes.


We want none of this, no more! This is why I proposed a parliamentary committee to investigate the Court's abuses, including censorship.


The request garnered the support of the necessary 171 representatives and is now awaiting the Speaker of the House, Arthur Lira, to initiate its activities. The Brazil Twitter Files have given new momentum to this endeavor. We cannot rely on most legacy media or the establishment.


But we can rely on principled individuals like you, @elonmusk and @shellenberger. You may not be Brazilian, but you are fighting for freedom in our country in a way that inspires millions in my homeland to raise their voices and fight even harder to overcome this dire situation.


And we WILL overcome it. Thank you!


#CensuraNao
#CPIdoAbusoJa
#ImpeachmentJak

Things are getting complicated, as Musk is flouting court rulings and the Legislative and Judicial brasilian branches are closing ranks, as the saying goes.
Musk's attack on the Supreme Court mobilizes reactions from the top of the Judiciary and the Legislature
Barroso emphasized that every company, even foreign ones, must obey court rulings; Pacheco projected regulation of networks
The heads of the judiciary and the legislature reacted on Monday to the criticism made by billionaire Elon Musk, owner of X (formerly Twitter), of the actions of the Federal Supreme Court (STF). The president of the STF, Justice Luís Roberto Barroso, said that "nonconformity against democracy is manifested in the criminal instrumentalization of social networks". The president of the Senate and Congress, Rodrigo Pacheco (PSD-MG), said that regulation of the networks is "inevitable".
The Federal Police will investigate whether Musk committed a crime by threatening to violate a Supreme Court decision. Musk's attack came against decisions by Justice Alexandre de Moraes, who is also president of the Superior Electoral Court (TSE). Moraes, in response, included the businessman in the inquiry into digital militias, after the billionaire threatened to break decisions ordering the removal of content from X.
At Moraes' request, the PF will analyze whether the businessman's statements could be classified, for example, as an apology for a crime. The PF is also monitoring developments in the case. Musk has promised to publish court decisions ordering the blocking of X profiles, claiming that they promote censorship, but the orders are confidential. Any disclosure could be interpreted by investigators as an improper leak.
The serial reaction came after a post by Musk in which he said he was dissatisfied with the removal of content and the blocking of profiles investigated for attacks on the ballot box. Musk even stated that he would remove the restrictions ordered by Moraes. He said that the minister was violating Brazilian law and making "draconian" demands.
In one publication, he also taught his followers how to access the X platform through the Virtual Private Network (VPN) program, which in practice means giving guidance on how to stay on X, even if it is blocked in the country. In addition to the institutional repercussions, the episode fueled the political polarization scenario.
Barroso, who presides over the Judiciary, stressed that the highest court will continue to protect institutions and emphasized that "each and every company" operating in the country is subject to the Federal Constitution, the laws and the decisions of the Brazilian courts. "Judicial decisions can be appealed, but never deliberately breached. This is a worldwide rule of the rule of law and one that we will enforce in Brazil," he said. Justice Edson Fachin also spoke out. "No CEO can say they won't comply with a court decision."
Regulation
Members of the top echelon of President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva's government have defended the control of social networks in various demonstrations. The Minister of Institutional Relations, Alexandre Padilha, called the episode an "unacceptable attack". The Federal Attorney General, Jorge Messias, defended the regulation of social networks: "We cannot live in a society where billionaires living abroad control social networks and put themselves in a position to violate the rule of law," he wrote. The rapporteur of Bill 2630 on fake news, deputy Orlando Silva (PCdoB-SP), said he would ask the president of the Chamber, Arthur Lira (PP-AL), to include the proposal on the agenda again.
Pacheco called for a vote on the bill that has already been approved in the Senate and is currently before the House of Representatives, which aims to establish a legal framework on the subject in Brazil. The proposal was voted on in the Senate in 2020 and is awaiting consideration by federal deputies. "It's not censorship, it's not limiting freedom of expression. It's rules for the use of these digital platforms so that people don't spread hatred, violence, attacks on institutions," he said. "The involvement of the judiciary having to decide on these issues without a law to regulate them ends up generating controversies like the ones we've seen, with the judiciary having to act," he added.
Why will we think otherwise?? It even seems that all this - albeit looks like they are fighting - was done on purpose, how convenient for Israel and Brazil, this kind of censorship. For every government in the world, I would say.
 
A lot of negative attention that is already paying off. Today's Brazil VS X(Elon Musk) mess was - it seems - started by a Brazilian deputy who was very indignant about Lula's statements and his party Novo, was going to file criminal complaint against Lula due his statements about Israel
This is also being discussed here:

 
He is a very contradictory person
Brazil is like that. See our religions, including candomblé and umbanda. Grande Sertão Veredas.

it’s a tactic many politicians use to get in power, and when they get to be in power that’s when they can do more

I assume this is inevitable to some extent. It’s what the analysis of the guys at SOTT about Trump’s horrendously backstabbing assassination of Soleimani, for example. Putin’s touring Princr Charles in Moscow, giggling with Obama, etc.

I wonder if some sort of conflict is being planned.

Divide and conquer. My guess is that Milei’s election was North Atlantis punishment for Argentina’s word cup - among other things. Maybe because of Brazil’s local hegemony - which could only be individually challenged by Argentina -, S America has been exceedingly peaceful. But it wasn’t always so. There are conflicts in the undercurrent. Let’s create positive ties with our hermanos asap.


I do think we have to dig a little deeper before we get to that point

I’d love to see more questions asked on that. The guy really the head of the B in BRICS+, isn’t he?

I also agree we’re not clear on what “initiated” means. It does sound to me more like he was aligning with it, but I think it’s worth probing for more.

he gives me Erdogan vibes sometimes

It seems Brazil, Turkiye and Bharat (India) are very good at it. Brazil has a history for waiting and see with which party to side with - preferably with both - and to my knowledge hasn’t bet wrong in the last two hundred years.

What it didn’t manage after the emperor Pedro II 1841-1889 was to stay sovereign.

At this point is kinda hard to tell, so we’ll see.

As Immaprototype has pointed out, his track record is far from candid. I do think he has a lot of room in his heart and mind for the general good. I also think it’s important to keep in mind he’s probably not a saint as well.

He was arrested in 1980 during US-backed military dictatorship for just a few days when he coordinator major successful strikes. Then a couple years later he was sentenced for 3 years for agitation and disruption of order. His lawyer made a plea and it was reduced to just a year. He was arrested in 2018 with very flimsy evidence (as, interestingly enough, the prosecutors themselves agreed, as shown by their leaked telegram message). The decision was somewhat easily overturned in 2019, 580 days after his imprisonment.
 
I don't believe a word he says
Would you mind telling us why? It seems we have different biases and I’d like to be see things like you do.
castigates any conservative politician and media outlet etc
“Any” seems like quite an exageration to me. Lula’s and Dilma’s (his successor, same party) presidency was famous for having many centrist-right-wing ministers.

Could you clarify what you mean with “conservative”?

That is how BRICS ‘works’💁‍♂️ an illusion of the so called antiwestern coalition…
I’m quite confused with the news you posted from TG. Very little context, no date, and quite an assertion - Brazil refused to fuel Lavrov’s airplane. More specific info, please?

how convenient for Israel and Brazil, this kind of censorship
There’s another thread we’re discussing this in detail. I think it’s called “Lula and the Forum of Sao Paulo”. It really involves many threads to untangle. My main analysis is this: different competing faction in North Atlantis (mainly US) are in-fighting, wanting plunder S America. Brazilian local oligarchy is fighting back with the help of globalists, who are helping because 1) need the natura resources and 2) Bolsonaro’s adm is so chaotic it is unhelpful in plundering the country.
This is also being discussed here
Oh, there’s the thread.
 
he is very favorable to vaccination
I’d say it must be seen in much different light than, say, Bill Gate’s proposition of vaccines.

Here’s a story, as reported in Piauí:
Flávio Dino, most recent Supreme Justice, lost his 10 year-old son in a bizarre medical error in a top hospital in Brasília. It was a respiratory issue.

When the COVID criss started, people close to him said he’d weep when the news of dead children would get to him - deas by respiratory issues.

Bolsonaro gvt forbade the use of respirators (whose survival patients in intubated patients is 6%, as far as I remember). Interestingly enough, Bolsonaro bought all the supplied of respirators in the country and stashed them. A large operation started where entrepeneurs and politicians bought and practically smuggled 50 respirators to the country. It wasn’t unlawful because they didn’t profit - they didn’t sell the respirators, they just bought it from their own money.

My point: most left politicans in Brazil, I’d guess 90%+ believe vaccines save lives. As do most doctors. I’m yet to talk personally to a single doctor who doesn’t think so.

L’s adherence to vaccines may be malice, a necessity, or actually misguided benevolence.

On that note “left” means a completely different thing in the US rather than in Brazil.

In the US, according to semi-declared Nazi and half-jewish Ron Unz, US’s left is a fruit of the New Left from the 60’s, itself an offshoot from the School of Frankfurt. Basically, more or less talmudic jewish ideology.

In Brazil, while “critical theory” does permeate the left, the left is mainly composed of actual proletariat and largely anti-globalist sentiment.
 
his vice alckmin
I need to check, but it seems Alckmin’s either jewish or frequently seen in synagogues.

Jaques Wagner, ex ministry of the defence, jewish, also said Lula’s statement was ‘unfortunate’ or something of the sort.

Brazil has, if I’m not mistaken, over 100 parties. If I remember correctly, only Indonesia has more parties.

It’s quite normal that a government will have ministries occupied by nearly opposition parties, for the sake of governability (enacting laws, approving supremes justices nominations, etc).
 
In the US, according to semi-declared Nazi and half-jewish Ron Unz, US’s left is a fruit of the New Left from the 60’s, itself an offshoot from the School of Frankfurt. Basically, more or less talmudic jewish ideology.
If that is an apt description of Unz, then why give his assessment any weight since his biases are going to taint his analysis?

I could be considered a Leftover from the 60’s, and while the pseudo “voices of the left” like Herbert Marcuse and Angels Davis (I went to UCSD at that time) fit Unz’s description, the rank and file left was fueled by a sort of idealistic populism.

So I think the key thread of continuity is that the useful well-meaning idiots get painted with the brush that describes the fake “leaders” of a movement.

(Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan replacing MLK and Malcolm X as the “leaders” of the black movement is an example.)
 
He is a very contradictory person. He supports Russia, criticizes Israel, and opposes USA's hegemony. At the same time, he wants vaccines to be mandatory and is very friendly to climate change policies. Lula is also very supported by the Brazilian artistic class (just like Hollywood is fiend of Democrats). Brazilian wokes massively voted for him.
I don’t really see a contradiction here. The bias is that if you oppose the USA, criticize Israel and support Russia you must be a good guy and should necessarily oppose the WEF/World Bank/One World/Smiley Face juggernaut. But… the lesson could be: meh, not so much, really.
 
I remembered, at that time it was similar to Trump's, and stolen one.
My guess, judging by the political climate and the quite aggressive protection of e-voting, I find it more likely than not the election was rigged.

Corageous Inmate Sort seems a lot better informed than me. Wish to read up his info some time.

It should be noted there are very credible reports of many roads blocked by the road police at the time of the voting, in regions that are massive Lula voters, such as Northeast.
his actions more than his words
I was just reading today he was a congressman for São Paulo from 1984-88 (check exactly). According to his wikipedia page, his voted were very consistently towards labor rights and wealth equality (6 hours work week, 44 to 40 hour workweek, agrarian reforms, etc).

During his government, the famous Bolsa Família (roughly translated as Family Stipend) program helped reduce abject misery from ~10% of pop to ~2,5% of pop.
40 million jobs were created, minimum wage had real increase of ~25% in his 2002-2006 term, and ~20% in his 2006-2010 term.

Famously, many people would say “I’m the first in my family to go to college. My mother’s a housemaid. It was her dream”. His govt created over 100 federal educational college-level institutes for education.

Basically, it seems everybody got richer and the poor a little bit less poor, he somehow aligned the interest of many competing parties and there was very significant economic and political stability.

In 2015 Brazil’s nominal GDP was just about the reach France’s, the 5th largest in the planet. He made more visits to foreign countries than any president - over 100 -, and around 60% of them were to African or South American nations.

2014, in the middle of his successor’s Dilma term, a movement that looked a whole lot like a color revolution started. I was in a manifestation myself.

2015 Germany’s 7 x 1 Brasil in football. Operation Carwash gains momentum.

2016 Dilma’s impeachment. “Privatization” starts again - largely bought by the usual foreign “investors”.

2018 Bolsonaro elected.

Many countries had a steep decline in GDP around 2016, but all of them that I checked had recovered in 2022. Except Brazil. Look at the data now.
 
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