Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Minas Tirith said:
Anyway, I have been measuring my ketone level with Ketostix and constantly score around 7 or 8mM. That's much too high, isn't it? :scared: It has been said here that the urine method is not accurate, but on some Keto Blogs they even say that your ketone level is probably higher than on the Stix! What am I doing wrong?

Ketones can get excreted in the urine a lot at the beginning of the diet, so I don't think it would make sense to find them at higher levels in the blood, at least not higher than urine. From Volek's video, I remember him saying that uric acid competes with ketones in the excretion/transportation. So uric acid raises in blood, and ketones get excreted. Eventually, it should be "reversed". Uric acid decreases in blood and then there are more ketones readily available for metabolism in the body.

BTW, that is a great testimonial!
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I forgot to ask in the last post, what are other people's experience with cold showers or baths?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

SMM said:
I forgot to ask in the last post, what are other people's experience with cold showers or baths?

I'm still adjusting to the keto diet, but cold baths and FIR saunas are on my to do list. I think one detoxes quite a bit switching from a carb diet to keto, so I don't want to overload my system with too much detox too soon. A search on the net showed these interesting posts regarding cold adaptation:

Approaching Infinity said:
Laura said:
Well, all things considered, I think the aquatic ape hypothesis is going in the right direction, but not necessarily that we spent all our time in cold water. Being able to spend SOME time in cold water is, of course, useful, but there might have been a more than equivalent amount of time spent in warmer environments. After all, hominid type creatures started working with fire a very, very long time ago, and that was in conjunction with cooking, which was in conjunction with the increase in brain size, so perhaps, warmth/fire can be connected to becoming fully human?

Indeed, we have many archaic systems within our bodies, including the archaic vagal response, but activating it can kill us.

I think the bolded part is the main point. For example, watch this video with a Native American woman talking about what things used to be like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_rw5uaLccQ&feature=endscreen&NR=1

To summarize a bit, she says that the Natives simply didn't have easily accessible hot water. That's a "newfangled" thing that was totally foreign to their way of life. As it was, when a baby was born, they put it in the water (i.e. cold water) in order for it to grow up strong and healthy. They bathed in the cold waters, and used them as a way to 'cool off' emotionally when tempers flared, to control the males' hormones and aggression in particular, and to cold-adapt for the hunts in the winter. So while these tribes weren't spending all their time in the ice, like the Inuit, they were still cold-adapted. I remember reading in a book recently (not sure which, might have been Shumaker's In Search of Happiness), where the author relates the story of a woman in some country standing and working in very cold water, but she wasn't bothered by it. Her pain threshold was higher, the author said.

And I think that's part of the point. Most of us are so used to the comfort of hot water that we don't have even a normal amount of cold adaptation (i.e. short times spent in cold water). What is just too cold for us would've been nothing to a hunter-gatherer who simply bathed in the river (even the Ganges in India is 50-60 F/10-15 C). So when you consider that the standard diet is all carbs, we stay up late with artificial light, and our bodies are always warm, the signal our bodies are getting is that it's always summer. I listened to Kruse's latest podcast the other day, and he thinks that even if you correct just 1 of those things, yes you'll feel benefits, but your body will still be getting mixed signals. There needs to be SOME seasonal variation, even if it's just a bit when living closer to the equator.

Carlisle said:
Hesper said:
Great to hear! I have to admit that it's much easier to take a cold shower either right after a workout or when it's still warm outside. I was able to take cold showers every day this summer but I wimped out once the weather got colder, so I've only done them sporadically.

Oh yes, it's much more intense now that the water is totally freezing! I used to handle 20 minutes in the cold bath, now I can't take the shock for more than a few minutes, and from outside the bathroom it must sound like I am going through some pretty bad torture.

Living in the UK though, I think it's gonna be important to get used to the cold in the times ahead. Good suggestion Turgon, I will try that :evil:

Goemon_ said:
I have finally try the cold shower a week ago and every morning since. It was not the best time to try it as the cold wheather came on the third day. Has I know if I don't percist I will not come back to it soon I have managed to continue. With 10°C in the house it is sometime very difficult but it is still possible.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

SMM said:
I forgot to ask in the last post, what are other people's experience with cold showers or baths?

I've been doing it sometimes in the end of the showers. I always feel refreshed and sharper afterwards. It's been good way to observe which part of myself doesn't wan't to do it and then compare it to the feeling after the shower. So I try to keep it as a habit but not overdoing it.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Gaby said:
Minas Tirith said:
Anyway, I have been measuring my ketone level with Ketostix and constantly score around 7 or 8mM. That's much too high, isn't it? :scared: It has been said here that the urine method is not accurate, but on some Keto Blogs they even say that your ketone level is probably higher than on the Stix! What am I doing wrong?

Ketones can get excreted in the urine a lot at the beginning of the diet, so I don't think it would make sense to find them at higher levels in the blood, at least not higher than urine. From Volek's video, I remember him saying that uric acid competes with ketones in the excretion/transportation. So uric acid raises in blood, and ketones get excreted. Eventually, it should be "reversed". Uric acid decreases in blood and then there are more ketones readily available for metabolism in the body.

BTW, that is a great testimonial!

Thanks, Gaby!

I found the following on the site of a hospital that offers ketogenic diets for children suffering from epilepsy:
_http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/health-professionals/clinical-guidelines/the-ketogenic-diet-in-the-management-of-epilepsy/

Ketones are measured either by testing urine (acetoacetate) or blood (beta hydroxybutyrate).

The aim is to achieve values in the following ranges:

If testing urinary ketones: 8-16mmol/L (tested using Ketostix® (Bayermeasures acetoacetate))
If testing blood ketones: 4-6 mmol/L (tested using Optium Xceed® (Abbott) blood glucose meter (also able to test ketones measures beta hydroxybutyrate))

NB: Some children may show signs of excess ketosis with levels lower than those above.

Occasionally ketone levels can become too high. This may occur after starting the diet, if the diet has recently been modified or during illness.

This are numbers for the treatment of epilepsy and I know that Jeff Volek gives lower numbers, just posted that here, because it shows that the Stix measure much higher than the blood as you said.

M.T.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Laura said:
I always take my magnesium before bed. Most people need way more than they ever get in their diets so we HAVE to supplement with it. Read "The Magnesium Miracle" thread for details.

I've never heard of it causing lethargy, but it can help if you are wound up and anxious.

Not lethargy literally, but magnesium taurate is a type of magnesium that is used to improve sleep or reduce anxiety, well, mostly all types of magnesium help on this, but this type is a combination of magnesium and taurine. I've read some experiences and explanations of this type online, that this combination is focused on sleep, and that it makes you sleepy, so that's why I say that it may be good to chose the type of magnesium.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Ok, i've read the other responses and thank you. It seems then that focusing on the carb load and the reduction of it is not as important, maybe eating enough protein, even more of what you need may serve as replacement for the carbs you are taking out of the diet?

Thanks for the keto adapt book, imma read it. I have had those symptoms of the adaptation to a keto diet, the one I hate the most is going to pee a lot. The dizzines I have, mmm I don't know if it's because I'm not having enough fat, or because my adrenals (though I don't know if it's adrenal fatigue, as the whole syndrome), this happens from 1 or 2 pm to 4 or 3 pm, after that period my body recharges again. The magnesium supplement has helped me to sleep better than anything else, :rolleyes: I take magnesium before meditating as it helps me to relax.

By the way, where can I find the fat bomb recipe?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Prometeo said:
By the way, where can I find the fat bomb recipe?

You can find that here:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,34453.0.html
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Prometeo said:
Ok, i've read the other responses and thank you. It seems then that focusing on the carb load and the reduction of it is not as important, maybe eating enough protein, even more of what you need may serve as replacement for the carbs you are taking out of the diet?

I am not sure if I know what you mean, but the idea is to replace the carbs with the fat. If you eat more protein than the 15% you will feel funny (maybe you do already).

Prometeo said:
I have had those symptoms of the adaptation to a keto diet, the one I hate the most is going to pee a lot. The dizzines I have, mmm I don't know if it's because I'm not having enough fat, or because my adrenals (though I don't know if it's adrenal fatigue, as the whole syndrome), this happens from 1 or 2 pm to 4 or 3 pm, after that period my body recharges again. The magnesium supplement has helped me to sleep better than anything else, :rolleyes: I take magnesium before meditating as it helps me to relax.

It seems you are going through the "keto flu" which is quite common. Emmerich gives excellent advice for this, esp. taking Magnesium, Potassium and making sure you have enough Sodium aka Salt. Bone broth helps a lot here. Also make sure you have your 80% fat intake and drink a lot.

I never had this peeing thing, but Gaby wrote about it somewhere here. Apparently it stops after a few days. This flu really s*cks, but see it from the perspective that your body makes the shift from burning glucose to burning fat!

Wishing you all the best, M.T.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I was having a kind of burning, tingling, itchy feeling on my skin for the last couple of evenings. No rashes or dry skin, though. More by coincidence I bought a Sisal Body Mitt
(something like this: http://www.ecco-verde.co.uk/cose-della-natura/body-mitt-sisal?gclid=CJ2No9nDhb4CFUoCwwodcCUA4g
for a couple of pounds and next time in the shower rubbed my body vigorously from head to toe.

My guess is I am detoxing through the skin and this thing really took care of it. Plus you feel invigorated and fresh!

M.T.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have another question: does anybody have experiences with saturated palm oil? Is it as beneficial as coconut oil?

Many thanks
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Altair said:
I have another question: does anybody have experiences with saturated palm oil? Is it as beneficial as coconut oil?

Many thanks

I have used it, and it is similar to coconut oil. I recall it being a light yellow color. I didn't have any reaction to it. It was over two years ago I think, before I was on the keto diet, and probably transitioning into Paleo and high fat.

I got mine from here.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Altair said:
I have another question: does anybody have experiences with saturated palm oil? Is it as beneficial as coconut oil?

Many thanks

I don't have experience with palm oil, so I'm pasting below what I could find about it in the book "Know Your Fats: The Complete Primer" by Mary G. Enig. But first, a few links about fats in general that may be helpful:

Dr. Mercola on fats
_http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/11/everything-you-need-to-know-about-fatty-acids.aspx

What Are Medium Chain Fatty Acids and Why Are They Important to Your Health?
_http://www.meltorganic.com/what-are-medium-chain-fatty-acids-and-why-are-they-important-to-your-health/

Fats, Oils, Fatty Acids, Triglycerides
_http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/fattyacids.html
(a table Fatty acid composition of some common edible fats and oils attached)

Fats & Oils from The Skinny on Fats
_http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/fats1.php

The following nutrient-rich traditional fats have nourished healthy population groups for thousands of years:

Butter
Beef and lamb tallow
Lard
Chicken, goose and duck fat
Unrefined coconut and palm oil
Cold pressed [or expeller pressed] extra virgin olive oil
Cold pressed flax oil - see note
Marine (fish) oils, including cod liver oil

Note: Bee does not recommend using flax oil since it goes rancid very easily, even if it is kept cold, and it contains the kind of omega–3 essential fatty acid that has to be converted inside the body into a form the body can use. Many people are unable to do that conversion, therefore it is advisable to get omega–3 from fish oil or cod liver oil, which are already in the form the body can use, which are EPA and DPA, without having to convert them - see Cod Liver Oil Products/Brands with Nutrient Levels for details.
...
Omega–6 and Omega–3 Essential Fatty Acids

Essential fatty acids (EFAs) are fats the body is not able to make, which is critical for health, so that is why they are called –essential– and must be obtained from foods.

Olive Oil contains 75% oleic acid, the stable monounsaturated fat, along with 13% saturated fat, 10% omega–6 linoleic acid and 2% omega–3 linolenic acid. The high percentage of oleic acid makes olive oil ideal for salads and for cooking at moderate temperatures. ...

Olive oil has withstood the test of time; it is the safest vegetable oil you can use, but don't overdo. The longer chain fatty acids found in olive oil are more likely to contribute to the build–up of body fat than the short– and medium–chain fatty acids found in butter, coconut oil or palm kernel oil.

Know Your Fats said:
Some oils, like palm oil and olive oil when they are not extracted
with solvents, contain high levels of many compounds that are natural
antioxidants, and therefore they are well protected. Additionally, these
two oils do not contain much of the highly unstable polyunsaturated
fatty acids. ...

Coconut and palm kernel oils have much lower levels of long-chain saturate-equivalents, since 65 percent of
their fatty acids are medium-chain fatty acids. Palm oil is not usually
partially hydrogenated and does not have any trans fatty acids. ...

Another common misstatement is that the only hydrogenation
that increases saturates is hydrogenation of palm, palm kernel, coconut
oil and animals fats. This is completely incorrect. Hydrogenating the so­
called tropical oils hardly changes the levels of saturated fatty acids at all. ...

The fats that humans have consumed for millennia, such as the
fats that they added to mixed dishes, were almost always more
saturated than they were unsaturated. It was the easily extractable fat
or oil, the fat that came from the animal, or in the case of areas such as
the tropics, it was the oil that came from the coconut or the palm fruit
that was used in cooking. Sometimes it was one of the very stable oils
like olive oil (or sesame paste) that had a lot of built-in antioxidant and
wasn't too polyunsaturated.

Palm Oil

Palm oil is extracted from the fruit flesh of the oil palm (Elaeis
guineensis) and is one of the most important edible oils in the world ...
Palm oil has been used for more than five thousand (5000) years in parts of the
world such as west Africa where it originated.

The palm fruit, which grows in bunches, is usually hand har­vested.
Hand processing involves fermenting of the fruit, boiling and
crushing with collection of the oil that floats on the surface of the pot.
The oil content of the fruit ranges from 74 to 81 percent on a dry weight
basis. The crude fat that is extracted from the fruit is very colorful, either
red or orange, and is highly flavored. Palm oil is known to have high
levels of beta-carotene (the precursor to vitamin A), other carotenes, the
antioxidant tocopherols (vitamin E), and the antioxidant tocotrienols.
Some of the palm oil of commerce remains yellow due to high carotene
content. As a source of oil, the palm fruit is similar to the olive fruit in
that the oil is contained in the flesh of the fruit. The fatty acid
composition, however, is different.

Fractionated and refined palm oil has superior functional
properties as a bakery shortening and is used extensively in the
manufacture of baked goods in Europe. ...

Typical fatty acid composition of palm oil is 1 percent myristic
acid, 45 percent palmitic acid, 5 percent stearic acid, 39 percent oleic acid,
and 9 percent linoleic acid. Fractionation can increase levels of palmitic
acid to approximately 54 percent. Typical tocopherol and tocotrienol
(vitamin E) values are 256 mg/kg a-tocopherol, 316 mg/kg y­
tocopherol, 70 mg/kg a-tocopherol, 146 mg/kg a-tocotrienol, 32 mg/kg
beta-tocotrienol, 286 mg/kg y-tocotrienol, and 69 mg/kg 5-tocotrienol for
a total of 1,172 mg/ kg.

... Palm oil is a source of
beta-carotene and antioxidants in its unprocessed state; how much of
these antioxidants are still retained depends on the degree of processing.
It is a stable fat that has 50 percent saturated, 40 percent
monounsaturated, and 10 percent polyunsaturated fatty acids.


Palm Kernel Oil

Palm kernel oil is obtained from the nuts of the palm fruit (Elaeis
guineensis). As such, palm kernel oil is a by-product of palm oil
production. It is usually recovered by expeller and solvent extractions.

Like coconut oil, palm kernel oil is a lauric oil and has physical and chemical
properties that superficially resemble coconut oil. In the U.S. and
Europe, palm kernel oil is used extensively as a confectionery fat, either
as a cocoa butter extender or a cocoa butter substitute.

The usual fatty acid composition of palm kernel oil is 4 percent
caprylic acid, 4 percent capric acid, 50 percent lauric acid, 16 percent
myristic acid, 8 percent palmitic acid, 2 percent stearic acid, 14 percent
oleic acid, and 2 percent linoleic acid. Typical tocopherol and tocotrienol
values are 13 mg/kg a-tocopherol and 21 mg/kg a-tocotrienol for a total
of 34 mg/kg.


Know Your Fats said:
A Dozen Important Dietary Does and Don'ts

* Do consume optimal amounts of fat-soluble vitamins A, 0, E,
and K and fat-soluble phytonutrients and biotonutrients (pages 71 to
73).

* Do eat at least one egg a day if you are not allergic to them;
more than one is likely to be better for some people. If you are feeding
children, be sure that they eat a minimum of one whole egg a day.
(Fish eggs can take the place of poultry eggs for some purposes.)

* Do consume optimal amounts of omega-3 fatty acids. ...

* Do limit excess omega-6 fatty acids in your diet. ...

* Do include sources of lauric acid in your diet. Lauric acid is a
healthy functional saturate and is found in lauric oils, so anything
made with coconut oil or products made with desiccated or whole
coconut (macaroons and coconut milk) are good sources. ...

* Do remember that full fat milk and dairy products are
healthful foods and should be eaten, particularly by children.
Imitation dairy foods should be avoided. They usually are missing the
important natural fats and often are sources of problematic trans fatty
acids and other antinutrients.

* Do include some fats in your diet from natural meats, fish,
eggs, and/or dairy products. They are necessary as sources for true
vitamin A, vitamin D, and assure intake of vitamin B12.

* Don't fear cholesterol. Cholesterol is the body's repair
substance. It is needed for proper brain function and proper hormone
balance.

* Don't fear saturated fats. Saturated fatty acids are the body's
natural fats, which are used for appropriately functioning cell
membranes and for critical energy in important organs such as the
heart and other muscles.

* Don't use only one fat or oil exclusively. Fats and oils are
different from each other and you need a variety of fatty acids found in
a variety of fats and oils.

* Don't save oils that have become rancid even if they were
expensive. Rancid fats and oils are dangerous to consume: throw them
away.

* Don't consume any products containing partially hydrogenated
vegetable fats and oils: they contain the trans fatty acids, which have
been identified as the major nutritional cause of coronary heart disease.

* Don't believe the story that there are plenty of people around
the world who eat and thrive even though they consume no animal
products. All healthy groups of people seek to provide growing infants
and children with milk first from humans and then from animals, and
eggs from birds or reptiles or fish.

Note: Individuals with food allergies may need to make exceptions to
some of the recommendations above.
 

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks, Possibility of Being :)

it was educative. I will definetely try out palm oil. I only hope my genetics will support me :)
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just an update...I am in my third week of the ketogenic diet. After reading keto adapted, I decided to dive in and I am so glad I did. I feel amazing! My joints have near zero aches and pains, and I have a steady stream of energy all day. My skin has totally cleared up, and it feels so much better. I sleep through the night soundly, and pop out of bed in the morning.

The recipes in the keto recipes thread have been a big help. The first time I went keto about a year or more ago, I now know I wasn't getting enough fat and I wasn't really sure what to eat. This time I feel well informed and more organized. It has been a much easier transition.
 
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