Trump era: Fascist dawn, or road to liberation?

[Alana]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

Well, yesterday I watched a presidential inauguration for the first time ever! This is what the world has come to...

Jokes aside, it is kind of baffling to see all these Americans worried about losing their freedoms with Trump and getting into the streets to protest about it, since most of their freedoms were already taken away one by one under the two previous presidents (yes, especialy Obama whom they adore so much). Even if Trump wants to take more freedoms away, there aren't many left! And I also don't understand all the "OMG"s following Trump's inaugural speech, it was exactly what I expected him to say, it just kind of summed all his previous speeches as a candidate.

It is funny also to read today various articles in greek newsites lamenting the fate of the world with Trump on the steering wheel of the american goverment, next to articles reporting that Trump's first action as president was to cancel the TTP agreement, when these same newsites have for last two years posted articles upon articles on the evilness of the TTP treaty and what would it entail for the European countries.

I also noticed that Mrs Obama seemed to have gained weight, as I also noticed the elegant choice of Melania's clothing, and that poor Barron looked bored throughout the ceremony. I would be too at his age. I didn't even think of Michelle's unconscientious school-lunch program, thank you all for the reminder. I would like to note however, that it is a human trait to observe, compare and comment on what we observe, I do it all the time and no one is going to make me feel bad because they feel "offended" by my observations. It seems to me that more and more people are getting offended by words these days and not by truly harming, unconscionable actions.

 

[Cosmos]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

Also, what is up with all those people on the streets destroying windows, cars, etc.? Do they not realize they're destroying property that belongs to hard working Americans? Not very clear what they're angry about either, since Trump has barely spent a day as the new President!

I've been watching this episode from CNN which they tweeted: _https://twitter.com/cnni/status/822513532344340481

And it looks to me that these "protesters" are not just a bunch of ordinary angry people, but a well-organized group of people with a very specific goal of destroying property who have probably been paid for doing exactly that. All of them are wearing black clothes with hoods, some of them have baseball bats specifically for this purpose, others a waving a black or a black-and-red flag. They are running out of the crowd of "casual" protesters, quickly destroying the property and then quickly return to the crowd again.

Vladimir Putin's warning of "Maidan" against Trump in DC comes to mind.

Indeed. Why isn't anyone in the liberal media questioning exactly that? Didn't we see the exact same thing happen at the maidan and pretty much any other colour revolution in the last decades? Paid masked thugs causing trouble on the ground, so that pieceful protest/gatherings get violent and the police must respond, then just blame it on the evil Trump and the colour revolution starts.

BUT this time it wasn't successful at all and I think one of the reasons is that Putin and Co. warned about exactly that beforehand, and Trump and his supporters noticed it and were aware, or even made sure that it doesn't come to that point. I think it is likely that the Soros/Clinton gang were behind it, or another faction (from the many that don't like what Trump is apparently trying to implement).

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

I've been watching this episode from CNN which they tweeted: _https://twitter.com/cnni/status/822513532344340481

And it looks to me that these "protesters" are not just a bunch of ordinary angry people, but a well-organized group of people with a very specific goal of destroying property who have probably been paid for doing exactly that. All of them are wearing black clothes with hoods, some of them have baseball bats specifically for this purpose, others a waving a black or a black-and-red flag. They are running out of the crowd of "casual" protesters, quickly destroying the property and then quickly return to the crowd again.

Vladimir Putin's warning of "Maidan" against Trump in DC comes to mind.

Good point Siberia and thanks for the CNN video. It does indeed look organized! I saw a couple of videos the other day of people who are leading these protests suggesting to others to block entrances, and one of the speakers said that throat punching is ok if it has to come to that. There was also a bit in which they were told that they could use homeless people to block the streets (by paying them). I wouldn't be surprised if some of the protesters were paid to destroy property. I hope that at least most of them got arrested.

 

[Cosmos]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

Looking at it from a bit broader perspective, I do wonder how the karma of that whole nation (or more specifically, all the horrible things that nation has committed around the world, in the name of ALL americans) plays into what is, and will happen there?

I mean, what Trump apparently is trying to do is exactly the right way at this point in time, but still there is a heavy load of guilt on the whole nation (and by extention, pretty much the whole western world) that is not dealt with, at least not yet.

I mean, that new movement is still grounded on very big lies like "america was great" (when exactly was it great ever and in which context?). The whole nation (from the start, till now) was established by the biggest genocide ever, that continued pretty much uniterupted through "softer faces" like "bringing democracy to the world" or "fighting communism" or "fighting terrorism" etc. So countless millions upon millions of innocent people were and are being killed right now, and even more people were and are enslaved to this day, to make america what it is today: "The greatest nation on earth".

So yes, "make america great again" is a good and sensible approach at this point, but I just don't think that the whole mass of people can skip the lesson that this nation has caused by its actions on the planet. There is no free lunch.

 

[Hesper]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

I mean, that new movement is still grounded on very big lies like "america was great" (when exactly was it great ever and in which context?). The whole nation (from the start, till now) was established by the biggest genocide ever, that continued pretty much uniterupted through "softer faces" like "bringing democracy to the world" or "fighting communism" or "fighting terrorism" etc. So countless millions upon millions of innocent people were and are being killed right now, and even more people were and are enslaved to this day, to make america what it is today: "The greatest nation on earth".

So yes, "make america great again" is a good and sensible approach at this point, but I just don't think that the whole mass of people can skip the lesson that this nation has caused by its actions on the planet. There is no free lunch.

Objectively America was never great. In STS terms it probably could have been considered 'great' and since people are STS, on some level they really do believe that. Being told the truth behind it only seems to anger them. But whether they like it or not, we all have to pay for our karma at some point, and the West in general sure has a lot of paying to do OSIT. So we can only see how it plays out. I don't see a happy ending, personally. Like you said Pashalis, no free lunch. However it is probably going to be a heck of a show.

A good article up on SOTT right now has interviews with some of the blue collar folk who attended the inauguration. It's a pretty good look into the 'Trump effect' on his supporters:

'A blue-collar affair': Donald Trump's inauguration breaks Washington norms

Trump's inauguration reflected his campaign — a mix of the gilded elitism that is the Trump brand and the paycheck-to-paycheck populism of his most loyal backers.

Trump backers have never been bothered by the wealth gap. "You know why that is? Mr. Trump offered his friendship to us," said John King, a retired power company technician from Michigan. "It felt genuine."
[...]
But not since Andrew Jackson stunned the political establishment by throwing open the White House doors to his masses of populist supporters has Washington seen anything quite like what the New York businessman brought to town.

 

[loreta]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

They seem to realize that there's a long and hard way in front of them right now which is full of dangers, hard work and responsibilities.

I hope that DJT will have enough health and strength to implement his plans and to confront his powerful opponents. He is already 70 years old and needs a strong team around him. Hope that he will manage to build such a team to help him achieve the declared goals.

Personally, I don't expect any dramatic changes in the U.S. policy right now. It took many years for Vladimir Putin to restore the ruined Russian state and strengthen Russia's position in the international arena, and there's still much work to do. So I don't think that we should expect miracles from Trump right away starting from day one. One careful step at a time.

What struck me were the amount one of percenter's that surrounded him as well as himself.

Also i did not see much diversification as far as minorities on the stage. He also left out (of his speech), the Asian, and American Indian population.

It would behoove his efforts to go "Undercover (Boss)," and mingle with them to really see what is happening to this segment of the population.

Especially on the American Indian reservations, which are abominable. Plagued with, medical health problems, (diabetes), poverty, alcohol, and drug issues. With Meth being the most rampant, (the poor mans Cocaine).

Heck, maybe the first lady could step in. A new reality show?

The Untold Truth Of Undercover Boss
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVR9IjJcymA

This picture that is very good, evidently, reminds me this one of the chancelery of the Nazis

 

[luc]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

My wife and I watched the inauguration live on RT - one thing we noticed was that Trump's speech was really totally left-wing! Someone from RT actually made the same comment after the speech - it could have been Bernie Sanders speaking, really. (Safe perhaps a few things about patriotism, God, and the military.)

Which makes all the hatred by the libtards all the more disturbing and retarded. Heck, the guy wants to revive factories, bring health insurance to everyone (though he didn't mention it during his speech), fight against corruption, make the PEOPLE count instead of the Washington networks etc. etc.!

I think at this point, everyone with two neurons firing should be able to figure out the total deception of the right/left paradigm in politics and that it's really all about the shallow establishment vs. normal people. I mean, can't those liberals see that everyone who even mildly speaks out against the status quo is branded either a left-wing or right-wing 'populist', when they are basically saying the same things?

It's impossible to tell where we are all headed with this I think - interesting times.

 

[Cosmos]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

[...]I think at this point, everyone with two neurons firing should be able to figure out the total deception of the right/left paradigm in politics and that it's really all about the shallow establishment vs. normal people. [...]

Indeed and it is also about more or less common sense against a totally distorted world view.

I mean, can't those liberals see that everyone who even mildly speaks out against the status quo is branded either a left-wing or right-wing 'populist', when they are basically saying the same things?
[...]

Obviously they can't and some might not even want to understand that simple thing, even if they could, because deep down it doesn't match with their being.

 

[mkrnhr]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

Looking at it from a bit broader perspective, I do wonder how the karma of that whole nation (or more specifically, all the horrible things that nation has committed around the world, in the name of ALL americans) plays into what is, and will happen there?

I mean, what Trump apparently is trying to do is exactly the right way at this point in time, but still there is a heavy load of guilt on the whole nation (and by extention, pretty much the whole western world) that is not dealt with, at least not yet.

I think the karmic debt is enormous and cannot be inverted over a short span of history. However, the way I saw yesterday's event (and today's hysterical reaction of the US press) kind of looks like asking a guilty person whether she wants to change direction (perhaps for the last time, before the sentence) and that person refuses. What Trump offered in his speech was reasonable. Whether it will be implemented or not is another story. However, seeing a large part of the intelligentsia refusing such sensible propositions as peace, prosperity, etc. is very disturbing, like witnessing the symptoms a malady of the soul.

 

[Ant22]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

My wife and I watched the inauguration live on RT - one thing we noticed was that Trump's speech was really totally left-wing! Someone from RT actually made the same comment after the speech - it could have been Bernie Sanders speaking, really. (Safe perhaps a few things about patriotism, God, and the military.)

Which makes all the hatred by the libtards all the more disturbing and retarded. Heck, the guy wants to revive factories, bring health insurance to everyone (though he didn't mention it during his speech), fight against corruption, make the PEOPLE count instead of the Washington networks etc. etc.!

I think at this point, everyone with two neurons firing should be able to figure out the total deception of the right/left paradigm in politics and that it's really all about the shallow establishment vs. normal people. I mean, can't those liberals see that everyone who even mildly speaks out against the status quo is branded either a left-wing or right-wing 'populist', when they are basically saying the same things?

It's impossible to tell where we are all headed with this I think - interesting times.

Great point luc! Trump's speech did make me quite hopeful that he may in fact be able to offer solutions to at least some of the problems plaguing us. My only worry is that quite a few people may not have those "two neurons firing" really. And as Lobaczewski says in Political Ponerology, 6% is enough to mess it up for the rest of us.

Just this morning I got a text from a friend ranting about Trump being racist and liar so I pointed out that Obama has already shown us what he's capable of and I'm pretty disgusted to put it politely. Bombing other countries whilst posing to cute pictures with his wife, kids or dogs is an absolutely unacceptable level of hypocrisy in my books. That's what Nazi soldiers did too: murdered innocent people and then went back home to play with their kids. To which my friend replied: "I don't care, I'm going to hate Trump no matter what he does". I diplomatically ended the conversation with "By their fruits you shall know them" so let's come back to this in at least 6 months' time.

The way I see it is that Obama's presidency is a closed book now and a very disturbing one to say the least. Trump's presidency book is still unwritten and it can go either way really. But there's is in fact still a chance it will go the way he said he'd take it.

Also, this morning I found information that the White House website took down Civil Rights, Climate Change, LGBT Rights sections. I read about it this morning and checked the website to double check it.

The removed sections have been substituted with statements linked to Trump's key campaign promises, which to me is a potential sign of commitment to follow through with them.

But since the public have been quite identified with some or all of these issues, removing these sections just gives more ammunition to the media to prove their point about Trump. For example, Trump has been criticised for appointing climate change sceptics to his cabinet and now the whole section on climate change has been deleted. Well, we know that the mainstream perception of global warming is very far from accurate but a large part of the public is convinced this is a man-made phenomenon.

I just can't help but worry that whatever Trump does will be twisted and misrepresented to the point that even his supporters will start doubting the real impact of his - still potential - accomplishments. At the end of the day the media made a war criminal Obama look like a combination of a cute puppy and an innocent hero and let's face it, quite a few people believed this.

Here are a couple of excerpts from articles about changes to the White House website:

_http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-trump-white-house-website-20170120-story.html

Just moments after President Donald Trump took the oath of office Friday, the official White House website was transformed into a set of policy pledges - and absence of them - that offered the broad contours of the Trump administration's top priorities, including fierce support for law enforcement and gun owners' rights to defend themselves, the disappearance of the outgoing White House's policy page on climate change and a notable lack of any directives involving former president Barack Obama's Affordable Care Act.
...

The issues page of Trump's White House offered no new plans or policies but rather a rehash of many of his most prominent campaign promises - a signal to the nation that Trump, more pragmatic than ideological, plans to implement at least the key guideposts of his campaign vision.

His policies include plans to both withdraw from and renegotiate major trade deals, grow the nation's military and increase cyber-security capabilities, build a wall at the nation's southern border and deport undocumented immigrants who have committed violent crimes.

_http://people.com/politics/trump-white-house-website-lgbt-climate-change-civil-rights-pages/

The moment Donald Trump was sworn in as the 45th president of the United States at noon on Friday, the LGBT, climate change, health care, and civil liberties pages disappeared from the website of the brand new Trump White House.

Motherboard, VICE’s website focusing on science and technology, reported that the changes occurred at noon, when the Obama administration turned over the official White House website, whitehouse.gov, to the Trump team.

The White House’s official LGBT page, WhiteHouse.gov/LGBT, now either redirects to a splash page encouraging visitors to sign up for updates from President Trump, or displays as a broken link stating: “The requested page ‘/lgbt’ could not be found.”

_http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-inauguration-civil-rights-deleted-white-house-website-a7538581.html

The White House’s webpage on civil rights has been deleted, just hours after Donald Trump was inaugurated as President.

Previously a page marking the history of civil rights in the US the page has now been removed. The page appears to have been replaced by one entitled ‘Standing Up For Our Law Enforcement Community’ which states there is a “dangerous anti-police atmosphere in America” as well as a “tide of lawlessness associated with illegal immigration”.

 

[Renaissance]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

One of the interesting directions many of the critics are going in is to go after Trump's 'populism', as if our leaders should serve ideologies rather than people. Amazing how political will for the people is now openly mocked as dangerous. What strange times we live in.

 

[Laura]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

Looking at it from a bit broader perspective, I do wonder how the karma of that whole nation (or more specifically, all the horrible things that nation has committed around the world, in the name of ALL americans) plays into what is, and will happen there?

I mean, what Trump apparently is trying to do is exactly the right way at this point in time, but still there is a heavy load of guilt on the whole nation (and by extention, pretty much the whole western world) that is not dealt with, at least not yet.

I think the karmic debt is enormous and cannot be inverted over a short span of history. However, the way I saw yesterday's event (and today's hysterical reaction of the US press) kind of looks like asking a guilty person whether she wants to change direction (perhaps for the last time, before the sentence) and that person refuses. What Trump offered in his speech was reasonable. Whether it will be implemented or not is another story. However, seeing a large part of the intelligentsia refusing such sensible propositions as peace, prosperity, etc. is very disturbing, like witnessing the symptoms a malady of the soul.

The world really has gone freaking insane. Just look at this complete lunatic:

https://youtu.be/q2R2btO4MEo

 

[Siberia]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

Thought I'd share this news here just in case:

BBC Northampton 'Trump shot' tweet blamed on hacker

A BBC Twitter account which reported Donald Trump had been shot had been hacked, the corporation has said.

The BBC Northampton tweet which went up at 10:52 GMT read: "Breaking News: President Trump is injured in arm by gunfire #Inauguration."

The post was deleted shortly afterwards, but it had been retweeted.

A BBC spokesman confirmed the account had been hacked and said: "We are investigating and taking steps to ensure this does not happen again."

Replies to the original included: "Are you sure?" and "Seems odd that little old BBC Northampton would be first with this news."
A message posted on the Twitter account shortly after the initial Trump tweet read: "Message from OurMine: we detected unusual activity on this account, the account was hacked by someone and we are trying to fix the issue now."

The BBC asked US hacking group OurMine if it was responsible for the Trump tweet.

A spokesman said: "We didn't hack it at the first time. We saw unusual activity on the account and we re-hacked it to make sure if the account was hacked or not, and unfortunately it was hacked.

"We just tweeted that someone hacked it.

"We never hack anyone for no reason. We are a security group."

BBC Northampton posted a message apologising and saying: "We do appear to have been hacked and are looking into how."

In its statement the BBC said: "BBC Northampton's Twitter account was hacked this morning.

"The tweet was removed quickly, as soon as we realised the situation.

"We are investigating and taking steps to ensure this does not happen again."

 

[Cosmos]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

Looking at it from a bit broader perspective, I do wonder how the karma of that whole nation (or more specifically, all the horrible things that nation has committed around the world, in the name of ALL americans) plays into what is, and will happen there?

I mean, what Trump apparently is trying to do is exactly the right way at this point in time, but still there is a heavy load of guilt on the whole nation (and by extention, pretty much the whole western world) that is not dealt with, at least not yet.

I think the karmic debt is enormous and cannot be inverted over a short span of history. However, the way I saw yesterday's event (and today's hysterical reaction of the US press) kind of looks like asking a guilty person whether she wants to change direction (perhaps for the last time, before the sentence) and that person refuses. What Trump offered in his speech was reasonable. Whether it will be implemented or not is another story. However, seeing a large part of the intelligentsia refusing such sensible propositions as peace, prosperity, etc. is very disturbing, like witnessing the symptoms a malady of the soul.

The world really has gone freaking insane. Just look at this complete lunatic:

https://youtu.be/q2R2btO4MEo

And that's supposedly viewed by many "liberal" types as a sensible expression of dissatisfaction and "care". One can only imagine what people like that are cabable of doing, when they get the chance to let their resentment and anger out on others that do view the world differently.

Very dangerous people. One really needs to look closely on what Jordan Peterson has put together in his work, to understand what this insanity has caused in the past and how it is now practically enforced on a global level. Doesn't look good at all.

 

[Seamus]

Re: Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

This exchange seems mean spirited and I for one don't like it. I don't mean to attack any of you, just trying to bring this up for discussion. This is a public thread on a public forum and there are plenty of ways we can criticize the Obamas without attacking Michelle's weight IMO. This is the kind of tactic that the MSM uses on a regular basis: tearing people down because of the way they look. FWIW I think we're better than this and I think it makes us look classless when we engage in this kind of attack, regardless of who the target is.

Just my two cents. I may be overreacting or the only one who feels this way.

Your response is a tad bit vague here. Are you finding a problem with Laura's initial observation and question or the subsequent responses or all of it? I'm not clear on your perspective.

I was commenting on both the initial observation and the subsequent responses. It sounds like I was missing context...

I wounder if she/he ah...? Eats what she advocates?

I find it offensive that she gained weight, considering what her high school lunch program had to offer for children.

Which was basically zero to nothing.

Exactly my point. There she was, presenting herself as the expert on what children should be eating in schools, forcing a lunch program on the schools that they had to implement in order to get federal funding - heck, in order to avoid being FINED - and it was pure crap.

Feds to Fine Schools for Not Following Michelle Obama’s Lunch Rules
http://freebeacon.com/issues/feds-schools-michelle-obamas-lunch-rules/

http://nypost.com/2014/11/23/kids-thank-michelle-obama-for-mystery-mush-school-lunches/

WASHINGTON — School kids are giving thanks to first lady Michelle Obama just in time for the holiday – with a sarcastic Twitter hashtag about unappealing school lunches.

Along with photos of unsavory-looking school meals, the hashtag #ThanksMichelleObama was among the top trends on Twitter within the United States for a time on Friday.

The first lady has become the symbol of healthier school meals as she has pushed standards implemented in 2012 that require more fruits, vegetables and whole grains in the lunch line in an effort to combat childhood obesity. There are also limits on sodium, sugar and fat.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2803961/Thanks-Michelle-Obama-filling-lunch-Student-photos-paltry-school-lunches-raise-alarm-social-media.html

The whole thing was based on the absolute worst dietary advice imaginable. More of the libtard nonsense.

Makes sense, thanks for filling me in! I remember reading about this but my mind didn't connect the dots last night.