D. Trump and E. Musk feud (former allies, now enemies ?)

Bastian

The Living Force
Hello.

It appears that former allies (or even "friends" in public or private) D. Trump and E. Musk have now a feud, publishing hard words about each other on X (owned by Musk) and Truth Social (owned by Trump)...

Here is a timeline of this feud (CNN) :

As I noticed that some of you are commenting about it in both threads about Trump and Musk, and as the subject is their relationship, for order's sake I propose to join the comments on both of them in this thread (and, for the mods, to move here the already written messages in the respective threads).
 
My own comments would be :

In international relations, there are no permanent friends or permanent enemies, only permanent interests.
The original of this pragmatism is generally conceded to Lord Palmerston (John Henry Temple) of Great Britain (..)
Charles de Gaulle, a prominent French statesman, once said, "No nation has friends, only interests."

So what's seems true for international relations could be true too for "giant" powerful people/politician such as Trump and Musk, both billionaires, world famous, powerful...

Together as allies or even friends (were it real or faked) they were stronger.
Now they seem to begin a feud, with hard words, which could turn into a "war".
Which will probably weaken both of them, to the great pleasure of their common enemies.

A question I wonder : is this feud a "natural" battle between egos (the problem being that they're two giants !) due to diverging interests and/or was this "divorce" "sponsored" by some 4D STS party ?

(If I remember well Gurdjieff's teaching or the Cass comments, anyone with unconscious parts can become an attack vector for someone else with whom (s)he's in relationship with.
It also reminds me of the Cassiopaean's quote "it takes two to tango" : if any of them would be able to put aside his ego, and to look at things more objectively, that would probably calm or even stop the feud.)
 
Many hypotheses going around concerning the Musk / Trump split. From what I can see they are as follows:
  1. Elon Musk was a Trojan Horse
  2. Trump and Musk are colluding
  3. The OBBB is a Trojan Horse that will destroy the economy
  4. Elon is a special guy with a potential drug problem who is under attack and prone to going haywire (like over H1B last Christmas)
After reviewing the arguments, I am personally going with hypothesis #4, though #2 would also explain the situation as a way of creating an obvious rift between Trump and Musk (for Musk's and his companies' long-term survival). But the viciousness of the attacks by Musk seemed particularly manic and hysterical. His unique personality combined with a drug-induced vulnerability would be a wide open target for 4D STS to sew division and chaos into MAGA. He has admitted to Don Lemon that he uses prescription Ketamine to deal with mood issues, and there are rumors that his drug use is getting out of control (take 'em with a grain of salt). Combining drug use with 16 hour workdays, running several companies, and launching an all-out assault on corruption in one of the most corrupt governments on earth is a recipe for psychic catastrophe, if you ask me.

The reason I have trouble going with hypothesis #1: Elon Musk has done a lot to open up the pathways for free speech across the world and in dismantling the vast hydra-like apparatus of the deep state's USAID. I am doubtful that the truly insidious powers in our world would ever have an agent that shines light on their absolute corruption via DOGE and his posts on X. So he would be an obvious target for the powers and principalities, biasing me again towards #4.

The reason I have trouble going with hypothesis #3 is as follows:

Let's just start with the overview from the Trump team (13:20 timestamp) on the Big Beautiful Bill and the role it has in the MAGA agenda:

The President ran and won a landslide making certain promises to the American people that need to be kept, and this is a bill, not a budget resolution, mind you. This is not a bill that is our full budget picture. This is a procedural bill that is allowed to get through the Senate and avoid the Senate filibuster in which you want to get as much of your agenda into it as possible.

Per Stephen Miller, if this bill were not to pass (29:38 timestamp):
  1. Overnight everyone's tax rates would go up 50/60/70 percent.
  2. The funding for border and immigration security would never happen because you would have to then get it through a 60 vote process and Democrats are never going to give it to you. In fact worse than that the Democrats will use the appropriations to starve ICE and starve Border Patrol funds to try to shut down the border and immigration enforcement.
  3. You would have to deal with the debt ceiling breach separately. If not dealt with it would lead to radical spiral up in interest rates, which would then cause an explosion in the deficit. The rise of interest rates payments would go up exponentially, which would cause deficits to go exponentially, which would cause interest rates to keep going higher and you would end up with a debt bomb unlike anything we have ever seen before.
Summary of a few major criticisms I've seen against it and their counter-arguments:
  1. The bill prohibits state / local governments from regulating AI (good Thomas Massie interview on it)
    • Supporters argue this is an attempt to ensure that California is not able to control AI regulation, though it's not like the federal government is any more trustworthy so I count this as deep state politics as usual
  2. The bill increases the debt ceiling by $5 trillion
    • Rand Paul says he's fine with the rest of the bill, but the debt ceiling component needs to be removed
    • Per Stephen Miller the options were either:
      • [Vote for debt ceiling] with Chuck Schumer at 60 votes (which means higher taxes, higher spending, liberal wishlist)
      • [Vote for debt ceiling] in reconciliation at 50 votes (which means permanent tax cuts, permanent welfare reform, permanent border security).
  3. It will add $2.5 trillion to the deficit. (Musk stated, "I was disappointed to see the massive spending bill, frankly, which increases the budget deficit, not just decreases it, and undermines the work that the DOGE team is doing"
    • Numbers are based on "watch dogs" like Congressional Budget Office, which use formulas that, per Trump team, are "artificial, unrealistic" (9:50 timestamp)
    • Frankly not good, but the Trump team's argument is that tariffs themselves are estimated to reduce the deficit by $2.8 trillion and that this is not their budget plan or even a glimpse of what they plan to do to fix the budget
  4. Some are angry that Doge cuts aren't codified in this bill, but this is a confusion due to the fact that this bill is not the kind used to remove previously allocated funds
So the bill is primarily for tax cuts, welfare reform, implementing the POTUS' immigration agenda, and dealing with the debt ceiling in a politically convenient manner. There are a few "pork" items that are brought along, which look like extremely political items needed to gain the right votes. And the debt ceiling issue has been used as political theater for generations. Though I believe that Elon Musk, Thomas Massie, and Rand Paul (among others) are right that the debt HAS to be reigned in, from what I can tell this bill is not the place to deal with it. It may be some politics as usual, but not when it comes to their intent to actually honor promises to the people who elected them.

Clearly this is not an exhaustive review of the thousand page bill and maybe some incredibly important item was missed. But based on what I've seen so far I find it difficult to view it as a MAGA Trojan Horse, and feel confident doubting the doomsday predictions regarding it, seeing as how all of these predictions rely on arcane figures from bureaucratic orgs and a lack of context.

So back to hypothesis #4. Musk got in with a bunch of snakes and they're trying to eat him alive. Trump has thick skin, MAGA is as very forgiving movement, and Musk has bounced back from worse, no doubt. He's already showing some signs of being somewhat apologetic for his outbursts.

Hopefully the MAGA team continues to learn lessons about transparency and how lack of it makes it easy to sew confusion and attack vectors amongst even their own allies and supporters.
 
So back to hypothesis #4. Musk got in with a bunch of snakes and they're trying to eat him alive. Trump has thick skin, MAGA is as very forgiving movement, and Musk has bounced back from worse, no doubt. He's already showing some signs of being somewhat apologetic for his outbursts.
I agree with you on #4 being most likely. I think this will blow over pretty quickly, in fact Musk already walked back the threat to decommission the Dragon capsule. Of course Musk has a point that he was just criticizing the OBBB and then Trump was the one who made it personal. That may have been the trigger for Musk's manic episode.
 

Russia responds to Trump-Musk feud with jokes, jibes and job offers​



 
Elon is a special guy with a potential drug problem who is under attack and prone to going haywire (like over H1B last Christmas)
Whatever chemical or personality problems he has, narcissists lash out uncontrollably if the 'self' feels threatened, often saying and doing the cruelest things to those they are closest to. Not saying Musk has NPD, or Trump, but big business and big egos go together, don't they? Anyway, Lau Tzu said: "The empire is ruled by meddling with no business" (he really said that).
 
It feels wrong to me. Too smooth, too open, too media-savvy. Do we really believe that personal cockfights among the top elite are played out on stage like women gossiping? It's a script, like a fight between two wrestlers before a match in the WWF. It attracts attention and distracts from other events. It causes enemies to come out of hiding and reveal themselves. An example: it prompts the Democrats and fake news to demand the release of the Epstein information because they think they have Trump in their grasp.
 
I was also speculating on the mental health (and stability) of Musk. Being aware of his character (highly strung and often erratic), puting him under enormous pressure (D.O.G.E.) for very long periods of time - in addition to it REALLY upsetting Deep State because it cut off one of their most lucrative sources of income (fraud and corruption through government departments).

I'm not really surprised if something equivalent to him "having problems" (as Trump said) mirrors some type of mental breakdown.

I would also be interested in knowing if there was also 4D STS type 'targeting', as well.
 
I was also speculating on the mental health (and stability) of Musk. Being aware of his character (highly strung and often erratic), puting him under enormous pressure (D.O.G.E.) for very long periods of time - in addition to it REALLY upsetting Deep State because it cut off one of their most lucrative sources of income (fraud and corruption through government departments).

I'm not really surprised if something equivalent to him "having problems" (as Trump said) mirrors some type of mental breakdown.

I would also be interested in knowing if there was also 4D STS type 'targeting', as well.
And so invested projecting an image of himself, Elon had that whole video game situation where he was claiming to be one of the top players in the world to then admit he wasn't the only one playing on his account. There's the whole thing about the founding of Tesla which Ian Carroll talked about on Candace.

So, Musk lashing out over a detail on something, isn't really surprising or out of character from what I have learned about him. Trump being who he is, can't help but skip the high ground every time, even if he fared much better this time around, so that was a recipe for disaster since day one. Whether 4D STS are involved, I'd say so.. but I would also say that it was going to happen even if they weren't involved given the characters of the players.

I will say that it's a bit sad to see Trump increasingly isolated, but I somehow am not surprised.
 
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