help with occult

[truth seeker]

that is true.but i wish just for once someone can tell a certain thing which will definitely happen,no more hypothesis,beliefs,prophecies...i guess am not good with faith :/

Why do you think that is? :)

 

[ana]

I think it should be mentioned that the C's channeling is used as inspiration for research. The fruits of that research are Laura's historical studies, research on psychopathy and its effects on society, research into human psychology, research on optimal dietary protocols, research into meditation, etc. The Wave is a hypothesis, one which it is very difficult to verify. Rather The Wave arrives or not, many of us find a great deal of practical application in our daily lives from these topics of inspired research.

that is true.but i wish just for once someone can tell a certain thing which will definitely happen,no more hypothesis,beliefs,prophecies...i guess am not good with faith :/

How can someone give you a certain hint on how are you to perceive the wave, how is it exactly going to happen and when, since it's all about who you are and what you see?

Cassiopedia, The wave

The QFS interpretation of the concept could be outlined as follows: The universe involves different levels of being, each inhabited by entities suited to the level. Some of these levels are in part physical, such as the one which present day humanity inhabits. Natural processes cause the veil between these levels to periodically be thinned or breached, creating a sort of crossroads or conduit. This is a sort of superposition of many usually sealed levels of being.

Outside of the natural process, there are entities which use technology or psychic capabilities for passing between levels. The UFO phenomenon is one example of this. These levels are called densities in the C and Ra materials. Other sources use other names, such as cosmoses in the 4th Way literature. See Density, Cosmoses.

The degree of development of a consciousness determines which level of density is natural to it. For certain esoterically developed humans, their level of being approaches the level required for inhabiting the 4th density, a level of being with a radically different perception of space, time and physicality. The natural circumstance of the Wave, i.e. the narrowing of the natural gap between levels of density thus offers a possibility of passage to those that are ready. Hence the term graduation or ascension. Polarization to either service to others (STO) or service to self (STS) is usually seen as the central requirement for the passage.

This ties to the 4th Way teaching in the sense that man must become a single, unambiguous entity before such a polarization even makes sense. Thus the 4th Way work on the self is necessary in order to create a self that is solid and consistent enough to bridge the transition between densities.

The Wave is seen as a point of turbulence. The arrival of the Wave is seen as coinciding with various cataclysmic upheavals, both in terms of society and nature.

The Wave has been compared to a waterfall. The river runs placidly up to the brink, then plunges down as a very turbulent stream and again settles into a riverbed of relative stability. A swimmer cannot escape the river but may make adjustments of course for avoiding rocks at the bottom of the plunge if he is aware of these. Also possibilities of a phase change, i.e. evaporation are greater in the cloud of spray surrounding the fall.

Phase change, as in passage from solid to liquid to gaseous has been used as an analogy for shift of density. A small increment of energy causes qualitative changes in the substance and its properties.

In the waterfall analogy, we note that in order to survive the plunge, one must be solid. When applied to a group of beings, as well as to the multiple little I's of each individual, this means that these must be cohesive and aligned to a common purpose. The QFS uses the term colinearity for this when speaking of a group. When speaking of an individual the term is fusion or having a real I. Failing this quality, one is likely to be ripped apart by the turbulence and not to preserve recognizable existence.

The QFS suggests that in the specific volatile circumstances corresponding to the waterfall, the quality of observation contributed to the process by the participants may make a large change in the outcome. This outcome may involve passage between densities, for example. Another example may be a split in timelines, as in the many worlds interpretation of quantum physics. Thus persons embracing one mode of being may literally end up in a different reality than other persons.

The processes in question are not strictly physical, although physical chaos is one likely reflection of the wider process. The process is seen as a macrocosmic quantum jump, determined by conscious observation. Just like the observation event is needed to force a quantum system to a specific state, observation is needed to guide the events inside the Wave.

This is one reason for the QFS's and 4th Way Work's emphasis on objectivity and clarity of understanding and work on forging a real I.

Polarization to a sufficient purity of STS or STO is not possible without knowledge of the world and a capacity for long term, unambiguous work. Still further, a group is needed to bring the requisite scope and consistency to the observation.

Failing to achieve a critical mass of STO-oriented consciousness in time for the Wave will likely cause the planet as a whole to remain in the hands of the present STS-oriented control system, divided in a 3rd density and 4th density group, the latter feeding on the former, as has been the case throughout history. Essentially, this amounts to a re-run of Earth history, from the dawn of man up to present, until the next cyclic coming of the Wave. According to the Cassiopaeans, the period of the cycle is about 309,000 years.

 

[aelyrsenn]

Why do you think that is? :)

you mean why am i not good with faith?probably because i was raised as a catholic and felt disappointed when i realized it's all just a fairytale:)but perhaps i have other trusting issues...

Mod's note: Edited to fix the quotation boxes.

 

[aelyrsenn]

I think it should be mentioned that the C's channeling is used as inspiration for research. The fruits of that research are Laura's historical studies, research on psychopathy and its effects on society, research into human psychology, research on optimal dietary protocols, research into meditation, etc. The Wave is a hypothesis, one which it is very difficult to verify. Rather The Wave arrives or not, many of us find a great deal of practical application in our daily lives from these topics of inspired research.

that is true.but i wish just for once someone can tell a certain thing which will definitely happen,no more hypothesis,beliefs,prophecies...i guess am not good with faith :/

How can someone give you a certain hint on how are you to perceive the wave, how is it exactly going to happen and when, since it's all about who you are and what you see?

Cassiopedia, The wave

The QFS interpretation of the concept could be outlined as follows: The universe involves different levels of being, each inhabited by entities suited to the level. Some of these levels are in part physical, such as the one which present day humanity inhabits. Natural processes cause the veil between these levels to periodically be thinned or breached, creating a sort of crossroads or conduit. This is a sort of superposition of many usually sealed levels of being.

Outside of the natural process, there are entities which use technology or psychic capabilities for passing between levels. The UFO phenomenon is one example of this. These levels are called densities in the C and Ra materials. Other sources use other names, such as cosmoses in the 4th Way literature. See Density, Cosmoses.

The degree of development of a consciousness determines which level of density is natural to it. For certain esoterically developed humans, their level of being approaches the level required for inhabiting the 4th density, a level of being with a radically different perception of space, time and physicality. The natural circumstance of the Wave, i.e. the narrowing of the natural gap between levels of density thus offers a possibility of passage to those that are ready. Hence the term graduation or ascension. Polarization to either service to others (STO) or service to self (STS) is usually seen as the central requirement for the passage.

This ties to the 4th Way teaching in the sense that man must become a single, unambiguous entity before such a polarization even makes sense. Thus the 4th Way work on the self is necessary in order to create a self that is solid and consistent enough to bridge the transition between densities.

The Wave is seen as a point of turbulence. The arrival of the Wave is seen as coinciding with various cataclysmic upheavals, both in terms of society and nature.

The Wave has been compared to a waterfall. The river runs placidly up to the brink, then plunges down as a very turbulent stream and again settles into a riverbed of relative stability. A swimmer cannot escape the river but may make adjustments of course for avoiding rocks at the bottom of the plunge if he is aware of these. Also possibilities of a phase change, i.e. evaporation are greater in the cloud of spray surrounding the fall.

Phase change, as in passage from solid to liquid to gaseous has been used as an analogy for shift of density. A small increment of energy causes qualitative changes in the substance and its properties.

In the waterfall analogy, we note that in order to survive the plunge, one must be solid. When applied to a group of beings, as well as to the multiple little I's of each individual, this means that these must be cohesive and aligned to a common purpose. The QFS uses the term colinearity for this when speaking of a group. When speaking of an individual the term is fusion or having a real I. Failing this quality, one is likely to be ripped apart by the turbulence and not to preserve recognizable existence.

The QFS suggests that in the specific volatile circumstances corresponding to the waterfall, the quality of observation contributed to the process by the participants may make a large change in the outcome. This outcome may involve passage between densities, for example. Another example may be a split in timelines, as in the many worlds interpretation of quantum physics. Thus persons embracing one mode of being may literally end up in a different reality than other persons.

The processes in question are not strictly physical, although physical chaos is one likely reflection of the wider process. The process is seen as a macrocosmic quantum jump, determined by conscious observation. Just like the observation event is needed to force a quantum system to a specific state, observation is needed to guide the events inside the Wave.

This is one reason for the QFS's and 4th Way Work's emphasis on objectivity and clarity of understanding and work on forging a real I.

Polarization to a sufficient purity of STS or STO is not possible without knowledge of the world and a capacity for long term, unambiguous work. Still further, a group is needed to bring the requisite scope and consistency to the observation.

Failing to achieve a critical mass of STO-oriented consciousness in time for the Wave will likely cause the planet as a whole to remain in the hands of the present STS-oriented control system, divided in a 3rd density and 4th density group, the latter feeding on the former, as has been the case throughout history. Essentially, this amounts to a re-run of Earth history, from the dawn of man up to present, until the next cyclic coming of the Wave. According to the Cassiopaeans, the period of the cycle is about 309,000 years.

but then i can never know if its only in my head,only an illusion.

 

[StrangeCaptain]

Also, aelyrsenn, while you are waiting to clear your head, you might want to work on external consideration by using standard spelling and punctuation in your posts. That would be considerate of your readers, especially since English is not the primary language for many people on the forum.

english is not my primary language too...seems to me that many people on this forum are losing focus on the stuff that really matter.

External consideration is prized here. Here is a brief description of what it is:

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=40&lsel=E

In the context of this forum, making one's posts readable and understandable to anyone reasonably familiar with what we discuss here (and sometimes beyond that) is part of external consideration.

I think it should be mentioned that the C's channeling is used as inspiration for research. The fruits of that research are Laura's historical studies, research on psychopathy and its effects on society, research into human psychology, research on optimal dietary protocols, research into meditation, etc. The Wave is a hypothesis, one which it is very difficult to verify. Rather The Wave arrives or not, many of us find a great deal of practical application in our daily lives from these topics of inspired research.

that is true.but i wish just for once someone can tell a certain thing which will definitely happen,no more hypothesis,beliefs,prophecies...i guess am not good with faith :/

For myself, a big stumbling block to viewing the world objectively is a tendancy to want things to be simple when they are complicated and complicating things that are simple. Many of us who find a home here in this forum do learn at least one definite truth; if we keep doing what we have always done then we will keep getting what we have always got.

As for faith, I think for the most part that we do not need blind faith in anything. There is one issue where maybe faith is necessary.

Doing The Work seems to call for a choice to believe that there is some sublime order beyond that of the 2 choices given to us by the modern world: (1) everything is pre-destined; or (2) everything is chance. I say this because after all our research and discussions discussed here it could just appear that the world reflects the patterns we have observed, but in truth, there really is a jealous, insecure Christian god that rules everything or that consciousness is just a chance by-product of a completely materialistic universe. I choose to have faith that this is not so. Yet this still is not blind faith... I have pretty good reasons to reject these 2 hypotheses.

 

[Alada]

yeah,i meant vague...it's not that i don't understand complex topics (still you can always do easy,formulaic explanations no mater what the topic is),but it annoyed me C's always saying they don't perceive time as we do,but that doesn't mean they can't,they've been there,done that...so it is just like that guy who predicted the end of the world few days ago,when it didn't happened he said : ok,I was wrong,it will be 21 october , it reminds me of C's,they talk like sth big is coming,and there is still nothing happening,maybe it won't at all,but they'll say it's because of some sort of fluctuation,or influence of moon,sun,jupiter (u get the point),and that it will happen in some 20-30 years (again they can't say it accurate cuz they don't perceive the time as we do...),and when that time comes,they'll say the wave is slowed down cuz of influence of Lizzys or Pope...

Hmm, did you look out of the window lately?

Consider this: The bulk of the Cs transcripts are from the 1990s, back then not much at all about any future events or influences made much sense. Indeed, some things seemed impossible to imagine. But look what has happened since 9/11, who would have thought it possible back in the mid 90s? Also take a look global weather phenomena, there certainly seems to be something happening there!

There are problems with predication, time frames, possible futures, multiple realities. I don't know how it works, but there is enough of an outline there that it seems impossible to be definitive. This point of view is based on fact and evidence, not simply 'oh we didn't get it right maybe it'll be next October'. As the Cs remind very often, the future is "open", and what we do might have an effect one way or another on what future we experience.

The opposite seems true of wishing to pursue predictions, its actually limiting ones ability to See, not expanding it.

As for "occult", I don't know how it can help us to be free, to liberate ourselves.

 

[Psalehesost]

i wish just for once someone can tell a certain thing which will definitely happen,no more hypothesis,beliefs,prophecies...i guess am not good with faith :/

In dealing with hypotheses, instead of believing we try to estimate how likely it is that something might be true.

If you continue reading, then having read more you might start seeing connections between a number of ideas, and how a whole that is less vague, more "certain" in how it appears might form from them. Then you can look at this whole and see if it has problems. If not, and it is a useful model for understanding things in the world, then you have something to work with further.

It might still turn out to be completely false in the end, and have to be abandoned, perhaps replaced, but that is the way it is with an ongoing search for truth.

While I think we can get closer and closer, we never fully know.

 

[Ca.]

Why do you think that is? :)

you mean why am i not good with faith?probably because i was raised as a catholic and felt disappointed when i realized it's all just a fairytale:)but perhaps i have other trusting issues...

Mod's note: Edited to fix the quotation boxes.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/G._I._Gurdjieff

In Search Of The Miraculous (1949) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/P._D._Ouspensky

It is impossible to recognize a wrong way without knowing the right way. This means that it is no use troubling oneself how to recognize a wrong way. One must think of how to find the right way.

In properly organized groups no faith is required; what is required is simply a little trust and even that only for a little while, for the sooner a man begins to verify all he hears the better it is for him.

A man can keep silence in such a ways that no one will even notice it. The whole point is that we say a good deal too much. If we limited ourselves to what is actually necessary, this alone would be keeping the silence. And it is the same with everything else, with food, with pleasures, with sleep; with everything there is a limit to what is necessary. After this "sin" begins. This is something that must be grasped, a "sin" is something which is not necessary.

The being of two people can differ from one another more than the being of a mineral and of an animal. This is exactly what people do not understand. And they do not understand that knowledge depends on being. Not only do they not understand this latter but they definitely do not wish to understand it

RELIGION IS DOING; a man does not merely think his religion or feel it, he lives his religion as much as he is able, otherwise it is not religion but fantasy or philosophy. Whether he likes it or not he shows his attitude towards religion by his actions and he can show his attitude only by his actions. Therefore if his actions are opposed to those which are demanded by a given religion he cannot assert that he belongs to that religion.

All and Everything: Beelzebub's Tales of his Grandson (1950) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beelzebub%27s_Tales_to_his_Grandson

ACCORDING TO the numerous deductions and conclusions made by me during experimental elucidations concerning the productivity of the perception by contemporary people of new impressions from what is heard and read, and also according to the thought of one of the sayings of popular wisdom I have just remembered, handed down to our days from very ancient times, which declares: “Any prayer may be heard by the Higher Powers and a corresponding answer obtained only if it is uttered thrice:

Faith of consciousness is freedom
Faith of feeling is weakness
Faith of body is stupidity.

Love of consciousness evokes the same in response
Love of feeling evokes the opposite
Love of body depends only on type and polarity.

Hope of consciousness is strength
Hope of feelings is slavery
Hope of body is disease.

Every one of those unfortunates during the process of existence should constantly sense and be cognizant of the inevitability of his own death as well as of the death of everyone upon whom his eyes or attention rests. Only such a sensation and such a cognizance can now destroy the egoism completely crystallized in them that has swallowed up the whole of their Essence, and also that tendency to hate others which flows from it.

The sole means now for the saving of the beings of the planet Earth would be to implant again into their presences a new organ ... of such properties that every one of these unfortunates during the process of existence should constantly sense and be cognizant of the inevitability of his own death as well as the death of everyone upon whom his eyes or attention rests. Only such a sensation and such a cognizance can now destroy the egoism completely crystallized in them.

 

[ana]

but then i can never know if its only in my head, only an illusion.

For that, take into account that networking works, it's a common effort to support the search for the Truth, helping each other :)

Cassiopedia, Networking

Whereas self-serving beings naturally form hierarchies with the strongest and most ruthless at the top, service to others beings would form networks. In the words of the Cassiopaeans, the concept of networking is a foretaste of 4th density STO.

To bring the idea into context, we can start with Gurdjieff's definition of a group: In a group, what is gained by one is gained by all and what is lost by one is lost by all. A group in this sense can only exist within the context of esoteric work. Such a group is free from disagreement not because of a command structure but because the same truths are seen by all. See the article on Esoteric, Mesoteric and Exoteric circles for more.

We can distinguish two types of group effects: The first is where the group descends to the level of the lowest common denominator, as happens in lynch mobs and other cases of mass hysteria. We can envision a situation where the whole group would rise to the sum total of the understandings and capacities of all members. The latter happens to a small degree in teams displaying good synergy. However, the imperfect quality of human communication and friction coming from personality dampens these effects and usually limits their scope to a well-practised area such as playing a team sport or playing in an orchestra.

The hope of esoteric work is to make these effects greater and more comprehensive. Achieving this is sometimes called the communion of saints. This goes beyond a social phenomenon and involves sharing the 'substance of knowledge' or 'higher hydrogens' generated in group work.

In general we can say that a group amplifies whatever is a consistently shared and applied principle in the group's work. This contains a catch: We often find, specially on the Internet, New Age groups that are in a sense 'open' but where the exchange degenerates if not into a shouting match then into a more subtle feeding or pleading or manipulating contest. It seems that internal work for purifying the signal and making the self first clear is a prerequisite for a group to amplify anything but subjectivity. For mixed, predominantly self-serving entities such as present day humans, indiscriminate sharing of everything simply makes noise. A great deal of attention is required for the participants to overcome first themselves and then act in a manner approximating STO oriented beings, thus not according to their default impulses. Again, determining what constitutes service to others in which case is its own question but a certain skill or sense for this can form via practice.

In practice, a network does not imply the interchangeability of all members. This is not achievable nor is it the goal. Having reached a similar level of development does not imply identity of personality or group think but does imply striving for seeing the same understandings. A group can involve specialization and contain teachers and students but is by definition a voluntary structure and does not exist for the benefit of any single member or subgroup. Instead, such a group may exist for performing a specific esoteric task, as may be required by the time and context.

The concept of giving back is emphasized by the 4th Way. Since the principle of service to others represents balance through the idea of serving self through serving others, this principle requires reciprocity in order to work. Balance cannot be legislated but it may occur naturally if the participants share the same direction, i.e. are collinear.

For 4th density harvestability, a network offers distinct advantages over working alone. The members can complete each other even though their own vibrational purity were not perfect. For graduating to 4th density STS, the aspirants must generally work alone since the very idea of service to self sees sharing as generally undesirable.

 

[RyanX]

I think it should be mentioned that the C's channeling is used as inspiration for research. The fruits of that research are Laura's historical studies, research on psychopathy and its effects on society, research into human psychology, research on optimal dietary protocols, research into meditation, etc. The Wave is a hypothesis, one which it is very difficult to verify. Rather The Wave arrives or not, many of us find a great deal of practical application in our daily lives from these topics of inspired research.

that is true.but i wish just for once someone can tell a certain thing which will definitely happen,no more hypothesis,beliefs,prophecies...i guess am not good with faith :/

This has happened before. And it's usually only the slimiest guru or disinfo artist that makes some grand prediction and then it comes true. Then they attract a following and lead lots of people down the primrose path. Look into the whole history of the Latter Day Saints Church in America and you'll find a good example of this.

Remember the C's have said that 4D STS can be extraordinarily accurate at making predictions when it wants to be (I'm paraphrasing).

Nobody here is asking you take anything on faith. The kind of faith you're talking about is the closing of one's eyes, or shutting down the mind. On the contrary, we encourage people to pay attention to the objective reality, left and right; leave no stone unturned. In a world where we're mostly told what to do instead of learning to think for ourselves, sometimes it's hard to break out of this double extreme of either needing total confirmation or having blind acceptance of something. Sometimes as we mature it often becomes clear that there will be no dramatic confirmations or miracles, and those that happen are likely setups anyways. Then it becomes apparent why networking with others is so important to make sense of this world and to give us some much-needed direction. There's lots of examples of this process of networking in action on the forum. This thread here (if you read the whole thing) is a really good recent example of networking in action on the forum, osit.

 

[aelyrsenn]

yeah,i meant vague...it's not that i don't understand complex topics (still you can always do easy,formulaic explanations no mater what the topic is),but it annoyed me C's always saying they don't perceive time as we do,but that doesn't mean they can't,they've been there,done that...so it is just like that guy who predicted the end of the world few days ago,when it didn't happened he said : ok,I was wrong,it will be 21 october , it reminds me of C's,they talk like sth big is coming,and there is still nothing happening,maybe it won't at all,but they'll say it's because of some sort of fluctuation,or influence of moon,sun,jupiter (u get the point),and that it will happen in some 20-30 years (again they can't say it accurate cuz they don't perceive the time as we do...),and when that time comes,they'll say the wave is slowed down cuz of influence of Lizzys or Pope...

Hmm, did you look out of the window lately?

Consider this: The bulk of the Cs transcripts are from the 1990s, back then not much at all about any future events or influences made much sense. Indeed, some things seemed impossible to imagine. But look what has happened since 9/11, who would have thought it possible back in the mid 90s? Also take a look global weather phenomena, there certainly seems to be something happening there!

There are problems with predication, time frames, possible futures, multiple realities. I don't know how it works, but there is enough of an outline there that it seems impossible to be definitive. This point of view is based on fact and evidence, not simply 'oh we didn't get it right maybe it'll be next October'. As the Cs remind very often, the future is "open", and what we do might have an effect one way or another on what future we experience.

The opposite seems true of wishing to pursue predictions, its actually limiting ones ability to See, not expanding it.

As for "occult", I don't know how it can help us to be free, to liberate ourselves.

I did look out of the window,and about that weather phenomena I think it could be some natural earth cycle or it could be the Wave...people reading these transcript are starting to connect every event with C's,lizzys,wave..it's like some sort of paranoia...my problem is i always think ''sure it can be like this,or it can be like that'',until am not sure what it is am stuck..I think i could be agnostic

 

[Alada]

I did look out of the window,and about that weather phenomena I think it could be some natural earth cycle or it could be the Wave...people reading these transcript are starting to connect every event with C's,lizzys,wave..it's like some sort of paranoia...

Remember > working hypothesis < Nothing wrong with 'connecting the dots' as they say, it can be wrong, doesn't matter, it's how we learn.

You see, most of the time we do not know, can not know, what the answers are. But we can take an idea and work towards it, imagine that we can evolve and make efforts to work towards it, see what fun we can have and what can be learned along the way.

my problem is i always think ''sure it can be like this,or it can be like that'',until am not sure what it is am stuck..I think i could be agnostic

Then why bother with "the occult" or with forums such as this? There is so much to explore in the material world if that is what you prefer.

If we wait to be sure, we will stay such as we are, remain where we are. Sometimes one needs to commit and take chances.

 

[Eongar]

I see you have a lot of subjective opinions about the things mentioned in
this post. The networking provides an approach to the objectivity of
acts as the network members provide different prisms, thus opening
a wide range of learning opportunities. This forum is research,
so if you have an opinion about something, should be based on information
contrasted with the foundation and not "opinion" or external consideration.

 

[SunEterna]

Hello there.
When i was 12 years old, during a spanish class, a friend draw an inverted cross with the first letters of the name of the teacher (Y M), right in the right angles.
Minutes pass... i feel bad and kinda guilty, fearing that something could happen to her...
So, i grab my pencil and put lines through this...
and there, just like i was controlling a puppet with a string, she falls, start to feel ill and had to go out of the classroom, instantly...
She never had this before and never had this after that...
This marked me...
What do you think of this?
Had similar things?
Peace

 

[palestine]

Hello there.
When i was 12 years old, during a spanish class, a friend draw an inverted cross with the first letters of the name of the teacher (Y M), right in the right angles.
Minutes pass... i feel bad and kinda guilty, fearing that something could happen to her...
So, i grab my pencil and put lines through this...
and there, just like i was controlling a puppet with a string, she falls, start to feel ill and had to go out of the classroom, instantly...
She never had this before and never had this after that...
This marked me...
What do you think of this?
Had similar things?
Peace

Would be hard to know what happened; one would need to "see 4D" to understand things

I see a first motion - your friend's drawing
I see a second motion - you trying to stop it (if I understood it right)

Could be that you stopped a flow of negative energies and that the short-wiring made her faint

But there is a principle, which is the "wishful thinking": it says that people have layers of energies, aura (etc) and that we don't have to "act" on those. For whatever "magic" we need to ask the permission. Your friend, when he drawed the cross, he intended to act on the teacher. At this level, the mecanism of "free will infringement" took place - and chances are that the whole motion was basically under this principle. Then, what happened next... Did the cross have any effect? Did your lines, too? It seems that you had a good heart and that you wanted to stop it.