Copper Deficiency?

[meadow_wind]

For what it's worth, I asked Grok which copper supplementation is best: Water Jug or Bisglycinate supplements?
According to Grok's answer, speculating that one gets the highest trace amount, which is around 0.5 mg/L, one would have to drink 4L/day to reach 2mg copper. This might be far from ideal. Who can soak 4L of water overnight? You need 4 Copper jugs? I don't even drink 4L a day...

I would not trust a copper water jug and instead aim for supplementation, which offers a stable dosage. I'm doing a supplement rotation over 4 days: copper, iron, zinc + Quercetine, and a multi-mineral.


GROK
Using a 100% copper water jug (storing water overnight, as in the Ayurvedic practice of tamra jal) can provide a small amount of absorbable copper through leaching of copper ions into the water. However, it typically delivers only trace amounts—often around 0.1–0.5 mg per liter (100–500 mcg/L), depending on water pH, temperature, storage time, and vessel quality. This is well below the adult recommended daily allowance (RDA) of 900 mcg (0.9 mg), so it offers a modest supplemental boost rather than a "good amount" to meet daily needs or correct deficiency.

Benefits and Evidence

• Benefits: The main scientifically supported benefit is antimicrobial—copper kills bacteria like E. coli in stored water, acting as a natural purifier (backed by studies, including those aligned with ancient Ayurvedic use). Other claimed benefits (e.g., improved digestion, immunity, thyroid function, or iron absorption) lack strong clinical evidence and are mostly traditional or anecdotal.
• Absorption: Copper from water (as ions) has high bioavailability, often better than from some food sources, as it's in a soluble, ionic form easily absorbed in the gut.

Risks

• Over-leaching (e.g., from acidic water or prolonged storage) can exceed safe limits, potentially causing nausea, stomach upset, or (rarely) toxicity. The WHO suggests no more than 2 mg/L in drinking water to stay under the tolerable upper limit of 10 mg/day.

Comparison to Supplements
Copper bisglycinate (a chelated form) is generally superior if you need a reliable, targeted dose:

• It has excellent bioavailability (often higher than non-chelated forms like gluconate or sulfate, with better gut tolerance and absorption even alongside meals or inhibitors).
• Supplements allow precise dosing (e.g., 1–2 mg) to address low intake or deficiency, without variability or risk of excess from leaching.
• Most people get sufficient copper from diet (e.g., nuts, seeds, shellfish, whole grains, chocolate—average intake 1.1–1.4 mg/day), so neither may be necessary unless tested deficient.

Recommendation
For general wellness or the antimicrobial perk, a copper jug is safe and potentially helpful in moderation (1–2 glasses morning water stored overnight; avoid all-day use or acidic liquids). But for "healthy, absorbable, good amount" of copper—especially if aiming to supplement meaningfully—a bisglycinate supplement is better controlled and more effective. Consult a doctor for blood tests if concerned about copper status, as excess (from any source) can interfere with zinc or cause issues.

 

[mrtn]

One could experiment with copper coins (Euro cents for example; make sure you know what metals are in your coin), study example. Or get a copper material with high surface (powder or wool) and get an aquarium copper test to test your water.
I don't recommend it (test can be inaccurate when too old or not done properly) and I personally don't have the need currently because my supplements already contain copper, but just an idea.

 

[Eboard10]

The Zinc/ Copper Ratio​

Zinc and copper have a teeter-totter relationship in your body. You need more zinc than copper, but with long-term supplementation, you generally need both in a healthy ratio. In mineral supplements or a multiple vitamin/mineral product, it is recommended to have a ratio of zinc to copper (Zn:Cu) of 8:1 to 10:1. A combination trace mineral product will often use 25-30 mg of zinc to 3 mg of copper per serving.

I did some reading about this topic and this seems to be a key point since it's important to keep the zinc to copper ratio in balance as they are tightly interrelated, and an imbalance in either direction can cause issues.

Excessive long-term intake of zinc can cause anemia, neurological problems and impair the immune function while excessive copper intake can cause issues such as oxidative stress and inflammation as well as weaken the bones and loss of hair.

So it's probably a good idea to take both supplements if one is taking either of them long-term, and check for any imbalance in mineral levels. But zinc and copper supplements such be taken separately, e.g. zinc in the morning and copper in the evening, since they can impair absorption of one another.

 

[mommycat]

As Daddycat has mentioned, our whole family is following Morley Robbins supplement protocol. I've tried different supplements in the past and did not notice any difference. After being on Morley Robbins protocol, I noticed differences within a few days. My energy levels shot up to the extent that I had difficulty sleeping for four nights. We made some adjustments and my energy levels are good, I am sleeping well at night and I was able to lower my thyroid medications. All in all, it's been a great change for me.

 

[daddycat]

I did some reading about this topic and this seems to be a key point since it's important to keep the zinc to copper ratio in balance as they are tightly interrelated, and an imbalance in either direction can cause issues.

Excessive long-term intake of zinc can cause anemia, neurological problems and impair the immune function while excessive copper intake can cause issues such as oxidative stress and inflammation as well as weaken the bones and loss of hair.

So it's probably a good idea to take both supplements if one is taking either of them long-term, and check for any imbalance in mineral levels. But zinc and copper supplements such be taken separately, e.g. zinc in the morning and copper in the evening, since they can impair absorption of one another.

Morley Robbins says stop taking zinc supplements. He also notes that the person who popularized the idea of zinc copper balance was Carl Pfeiffer and that Pfeiffer worked for MKUltra.

 

[Carl]

Morley Robbins says stop taking zinc supplements. He also notes that the person who popularized the idea of zinc copper balance was Carl Pfeiffer and that Pfeiffer worked for MKUltra.

Just when you think you've seen all the rabbit holes . I'm reminded of that part in Inside the Criminal Mind where the author talks about violent criminals having high copper and/or high copper/zinc ratios. Now we don't wanna be violent criminals, but maybe it has something to do more generally with lack of obedience and self-confidence.

I've taken zinc (sans copper) on and off for 10 years and never noticed anything good, so now am trialling a few months of just taking copper on its own.

 

[EmeraldR]

As Daddycat has mentioned, our whole family is following Morley Robbins supplement protocol. I've tried different supplements in the past and did not notice any difference. After being on Morley Robbins protocol, I noticed differences within a few days. My energy levels shot up to the extent that I had difficulty sleeping for four nights. We made some adjustments and my energy levels are good, I am sleeping well at night and I was able to lower my thyroid medications. All in all, it's been a great change for me.

here is a resume of Morley Robbins protocol

The Root Cause Protocol operates on the principle that energy production in cells depends on the proper balance of magnesium as an enzyme cofactor, copper as a catalyst in cytochrome c oxidase, and iron as an oxygen carrier. When these minerals are out of balance—particularly with excess unbound iron and insufficient bioavailable copper—it leads to oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, and low ATP output. The RCP reframes conventional symptom-based treatments as downstream effects of a deeper mineral imbalance, advocating instead for a foundational approach to restore cellular coherence.


The protocol is structured into phased steps designed to guide users through a systematic process: Phase 0 involves stopping the intake of supplements and foods that disrupt mineral balance, such as iron, vitamin D3, calcium, zinc, synthetic vitamins, and industrialized omega-6 oils.

Phase 1 focuses on calming the system by restoring magnesium levels, using adrenal cocktails, transdermal magnesium, and wholefood vitamin C. Phase 2 emphasizes rebuilding the mineral base with wholefood sources of B vitamins, cod liver oil, vitamin E, boron, and other trace minerals. Phase 3 introduces advanced nutrients like taurine, diatomaceous earth, and iodine from food. Phase X includes lifestyle upgrades such as donating blood, managing histamine, releasing emotional stress, and engaging in joyful movement.

from brave ai search .

 

[daddycat]

here is a resume of Morley Robbins protocol

The Root Cause Protocol operates on the principle that energy production in cells depends on the proper balance of magnesium as an enzyme cofactor, copper as a catalyst in cytochrome c oxidase, and iron as an oxygen carrier. When these minerals are out of balance—particularly with excess unbound iron and insufficient bioavailable copper—it leads to oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, and low ATP output. The RCP reframes conventional symptom-based treatments as downstream effects of a deeper mineral imbalance, advocating instead for a foundational approach to restore cellular coherence.


The protocol is structured into phased steps designed to guide users through a systematic process: Phase 0 involves stopping the intake of supplements and foods that disrupt mineral balance, such as iron, vitamin D3, calcium, zinc, synthetic vitamins, and industrialized omega-6 oils.

Phase 1 focuses on calming the system by restoring magnesium levels, using adrenal cocktails, transdermal magnesium, and wholefood vitamin C. Phase 2 emphasizes rebuilding the mineral base with wholefood sources of B vitamins, cod liver oil, vitamin E, boron, and other trace minerals. Phase 3 introduces advanced nutrients like taurine, diatomaceous earth, and iodine from food. Phase X includes lifestyle upgrades such as donating blood, managing histamine, releasing emotional stress, and engaging in joyful movement.

from brave ai search .

It would be better to get the free Root Cause Protocol straight from the source that I previously provided, rather than an AI output that is incomplete and incorrect.

The short version of the instructions is the free Root Cause Protocol starter guide.

The Root Cause Protocol | Starter Guide

Download the RCP Starter Guide for free, a summary of the RCP Handbook to help you get started.

therootcauseprotocol.com

The longer version of the instructions is the free Root Cause Protocol handbook.

The Root Cause Protocol | Handbook Download

Download the RCP Handbook (previously known as the RCP Manual) for free

therootcauseprotocol.com

 

[daddycat]

Just when you think you've seen all the rabbit holes . I'm reminded of that part in Inside the Criminal Mind where the author talks about violent criminals having high copper and/or high copper/zinc ratios. Now we don't wanna be violent criminals, but maybe it has something to do more generally with lack of obedience and self-confidence.

I've taken zinc (sans copper) on and off for 10 years and never noticed anything good, so now am trialling a few months of just taking copper on its own.

I looked in the index of my copy of Inside The Criminal Mind and didn't see copper, and an internet search didn't find anything either. Do you have the page number or chapter of the book discussing copper?

 

[iamthatis]

I looked in the index of my copy of Inside The Criminal Mind and didn't see copper, and an internet search didn't find anything either. Do you have the page number or chapter of the book discussing copper?

I think he meant Raine's Anatomy of Violence, chapter 7.

Deprive mice of zinc and their aggression increases threefold. Even before birth, zinc deprivation during pregnancy in rats increases their offspring’s aggression. Children and adults in the United States with assaultive and aggressive behavior have abnormally low levels of zinc relative to copper. A Turkish study similarly found that violent schizophrenics had lower zinc and copper ratios than nonviolent schizophrenics.

Iron is another important micronutrient. Several studies have found aggressive and conduct-disordered children to be zinc-deficient. One study found iron deficiency in a third of juvenile delinquents. Preschoolers with low iron also show a reduction in positive emotions. This is significant because a lack of positive emotion characterizes conduct-disordered children.

 

[daddycat]

I think he meant Raine's Anatomy of Violence, chapter 7.

That puts Raine and Morley Robbins on 2 opposite sides. Robbins says iron is the most plentiful element, iron dysregulation can show up in lab tests as iron deficiency, copper regulates iron, and zinc supplementation interferes with the body's use of copper. There's also correlation versus causation. Raine testifying for killer Donta Page in chapter 10 also makes me think that Raine's ideas are unreliable. Finally, Robbins' ideal lab range for plasma zinc is 100 ug/dL or 15.3 umol/L, serum copper is 100 ug/dL or 15.7 umol/L, and serum ceruloplasmin is 30 mg/dL or 0.3 g/L, so we would need to know the lab values in Raine's cited studies to see if they mean what Raine thinks they mean.

The next step is I took a look at 1 of Raine's cited studies from the quoted chapter 7.

Iron deficiency among incarcerated juvenile delinquents - PubMed

A population of 163 incarcerated delinquents (126 males and 37 females aged 12-18 years) was studied to determine the prevalence of iron deficiency and to compare hemoglobin (Hgb), mean corpuscular volume (MCV), serum ferritin (SF), and erythrocyte protoporphyrin/hemoglobin (EP/Hgb) as...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Abstract
A population of 163 incarcerated delinquents (126 males and 37 females aged 12-18 years) was studied to determine the prevalence of iron deficiency and to compare hemoglobin (Hgb), mean corpuscular volume (MCV), serum ferritin (SF), and erythrocyte protoporphyrin/hemoglobin (EP/Hgb) as predictors of response to iron therapy. Thirty-two percent of females and 6% of males had SF less than or equal to 12 ng/ml; 51% of females and 24% of males had SF less than or equal to 20 ng/ml. The mean SF was 17.7 ng/ml for females and 29.2 ng/ml for males. Of the 163 subjects, 53 were at risk for iron deficiency based on SF, Hgb, EP/Hgb, or MCV criteria. Twenty-one completed treatment with iron, and nine had greater than 1 g rise in Hgb. The following tests identified responders: SF less than or equal to 12 ng/ml-5/9; SF less than or equal to 20 ng/ml-9/9; Hgb less than or equal to third percentile-4/9; Hgb less than or equal to tenth percentile-7/9; MCV less than or equal to tenth percentile-2/9; EP/Hgb greater than or equal to 3.0 micrograms/g Hgb-2/9; EP/Hgb greater than or equal to 2.5 micrograms/g Hgb-4/9. Serum ferritin less than or equal to 20 ng/ml had a false positive rate of 57%; Hgb less than or equal to tenth percentile and EP/Hgb greater than or equal to 2.5 mu g/g Hgb had no false positives. The significance of the high prevalence of iron deficiency among a population of incarcerated adolescents is not clear.

This study's lab values do not back up Raine's ideas. This article makes the mistake of determining iron deficiency based on serum ferritin, and also makes the mistake of stating that 20 ng/ml is a problem. Robbins has 20 ng/ml as ideal. So I've seen enough to disregard Raine's thoughts on iron and zinc unless someone has something better to point out.

 

[EmeraldR]

It would be better to get the free Root Cause Protocol straight from the source that I previously provided, rather than an AI output that is incomplete and incorrect.

hi daddycat thanks for the link to the two books on the Root Cause Protocol ,yes youre right ,I only asked for a brief resumee/overview , for reference- what parts of it were incorrect ?That would be useful.
Glad you and family are getting good results from it :)