The Black Sun - The Alchemy and Art of Darkness ( Sol Niger )

[Laura]

Some additional references to the "brilliant darkness" are in Freke's book "Jesus and the Lost Goddess" where the tie-ins between gnosticism and Jung are made.

But again, what I notice in reading this is the lack of perspective on levels/densities of existence. It seems as if many of the gnostics were eating the menu and thinking it was the dinner.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Also, there is a mention of the Black Sun in this session:

Q: (L) Among the things that were discussed among the Germans in the Thule Society and the Vril Society, was the "Black Sun That Illuminates the Interior." Can you tell us what this "Black Sun" is?
A: Ultimate destiny of STS orientation.
Q: (L) Is this Black Sun an actual astronomical phenomenon?
A: In essence.
Q: (L) What would we know this Black Sun as? A black hole?
A: Good possibility

Ana:

Maybe the non-self or black sun, this "eternal embrace"symbolizes the absolute non being in its contracted and latent state of "non manifested" Infinite Potential.
A"darkness that is light and a light that is darkness" means there is no diferentiation, nothing is manifested. This wholeness, this silence are the symbolic means of the sleeping one, the non being, osit.

EmeraldHope's reply ( quotes will not separate since I added an image) :


Ana, I agree. Here is a picture one of the patients from the book drew:

 

[obyvatel]

[quote author=Ana]
A"darkness that is light and a light that is darkness" means there is no diferentiation, nothing is manifested. This wholeness, this silence are the symbolic means of the sleeping one, the non being, osit.
[/quote]
I think you expressed it quite beautifully. I felt something about this when I wrote this in my first post but could not express it adequately.
[quote author=obyvatel]
In the black sun image, the light and darkness are both contained within its very name. An image strikes the emotional center first and in that regard, the feeling that the black sun evokes in me is that of discomfort and my gut instinct says that this image is the essence of STSness.
[/quote]

 

[EmeraldHope]

[quote author=Ana]
A"darkness that is light and a light that is darkness" means there is no diferentiation, nothing is manifested. This wholeness, this silence are the symbolic means of the sleeping one, the non being, osit.

I think you expressed it quite beautifully. I felt something about this when I wrote this in my first post but could not express it adequately.
[quote author=obyvatel]
In the black sun image, the light and darkness are both contained within its very name. An image strikes the emotional center first and in that regard, the feeling that the black sun evokes in me is that of discomfort and my gut instinct says that this image is the essence of STSness.
[/quote]



[/quote]


I think I may know better how to explain what I was trying to say, Obyvatal.


The picture of the black sun I posted above is ultimate STS, say at 6th density, I'm guessing, which would recycle back into 1st density here in 3d, if I recall correctly. That would represent totally what you and Ana, and the C's manuscript are referring to, as well as the Nazi use of the symbol. The physcial representation would be a black hole. That is one valid aspect for sure. And as I said , I agree.


In it's more positive aspect, it would represent the picture attached here in this post, which is the esoteric symbol for the black sun. Perhaps that represents the symbol here in 3d, where there is light available to transform the darkness, if one so chooses. That would also be an aspect of it, but at a different "level". This would not mean the same as the one above. There is light and darkness here, in a different way. The physical representation here in this case would be a solar eclipse, I think. This has more in common with Mother Night and Kali Ma.


It would fit with what go2 wrote:

go2

The Black Sun is the bright light of the masculine sun eclipsed by the dark feminine of the moon. The eclipse is a transient phenomenon of descent into darkness of suffering and despair. For me, the Black Sun symbolizes the wedding of one who has experienced and embraced both the full measure of the physical limitations and the spiritual possibilities of our human life. Suffering, betrayal, illness, war, despair, and resistance are the dark reality of human life in the flesh. The light of the sun is the higher aspiration of service, joy, science, initiative, and spirit. The Black Sun is marriage of darkness and light.

So, one could not say that all symbols of the black sun represent total STS non being. One would have to clarify and differentiate. OSIT

 

[Laura]

So, one could not say that all symbols of the black sun represent total STS non being. One would have to clarify and differentiate. OSIT

Yes, this is so according to the gnostic references and that is what influenced Jung as far as I can see.

To illustrate their ideas, the gnostics used a circle with a radius extending from a point at the center to the circumference.

The circumference represented the physical body which the ancients called physis (from which we get our word "physical"). This was meant to represent not just the body, but the brain and the personality. The radius represented our psyche or individuated soul. This is our "inner self" as opposed to our "outer self/false personality" of the circumference.

At the center is our pneuma or nous, or spirit. This was meant to describe what we might refer to now as the "spark from God" or an element of pure consciousness.

They compared our expression of these three parts of our being by comparing them to waking, dreaming, and deep, dreamless sleep.

Consciousness extends its awareness from the center to the circumference when you are in the normal, physically awakened state. In the dream state, we abandon the body and retreat into the psyche/soul. In deep, dreamless state, we withdraw into our "essense" or nous/pneuma, pure consciousness.

According to the gnostics and some Jungians, we remember this state of dreamless sleep afterward as a "blissful void" in which we exist as "emptiness of consciousness".

That is, of course, a contradiction because if there is nothing, there is nothing to remember. And frankly, the individual who thinks of absolute nothing as "blissful" may be an individual who seeks that state and that is the core definition of STS: light eating.

Anyway, to continue, these gnostic teachings say that the point at the center of the circle is the one universal consciousness and you can not only describe a single human in terms of this circle, but also all of creation. If unmanifested god is at the center, all radiating lines are "souls" that have individuated and where they meet the circumference, they are incarnated in a body of some sort or at least have expressed as matter of some sort. You can see that many layers and types of circles with radiating lines can be used to represent a lot of things here.

Anyhow, the radii representing individual souls, all terminate at the circumference in individual bodies, but the center is the shared essence of all. This shared essence is the "one consciousness of God." Each line which extends from the center of the circle has its source in the one consciousness of God and its fruition in a distinct form which is an image or "face" of god.

Now, if you imagine the circle without any radiating lines, you are imagining God without anything to be conscious of. That is unconsciousness. This is what Gregory of Nyssa and Dionysius called the "dazzling darkness." According to this teaching, light is darkness when it has no objects upon which to reflect and consciousness is unconscious when it is witnessing no experiences. The unmanifested consciousness of God is this dazzling darkness which appears as the light of consciousness only when it has something to illuminate. As the dazzling darkness - the center itself - we manifest out of this universal being called God.

This center, this dazzling darkness, is represented as a "mystery of god" because a point, by definition, has no dimensions or characteristics. It can only be called the center in relationship to the circle that issues from it. It has no characteristics and we can only call it consciousness in relation to the radiating lines of psyche/soul.

Now, I think that returning to this state of unmanifestation is called in some Eastern systems "nirvana." And, as we have explored before, the wish to return to it is the essence of STS, the desire to subsume everything back to the sleep of non-being and non-existence because action and creativity is frightening to the psyches of some individuals. As Ra said, some love the darkness, some love the light.

But these further ideas - the levels of being, the core differences between STS and STO - are not generally part of the gnostic or Jungian systems. At the same time, those people who are concerned with STO are not generally comfortable thinking about the necessity for both to exist in order for anything to exist at all.

The problem with the gnostic myths is that they were a synthesis of much older Pagan myths and Jewish ideas. The Jewish spin somehow managed to give a little twist to things and it ended up being the Jesus myth.

However, the most ancient and influential of the Mysteries was the myth of Demeter and Persephone/Kore which removes the dying and resurrecting god twist.

Persephone, known as Kore (which means daughter or girl and in the Gospel of Thomas, the psyche is called "Kore") represents the individuated soul while Demeter, the mother, represents the pure consciousness/mother of all. Notice here that the nature of a mother is that of one who constantly gives birth which is an altogether different thing that the "father god" at the center which magnetizes or draws all light/consciousness back to himself. Keep in mind that Persephone/Kore is a product of the interaction between Zeus and Demeter so right away, you have two elements at the center instead of just one.

So, Persephone is abducted by Hades - incarnated into the physical world - and all kinds of misery ensues. This represents identification with the false personality/materiality. Hermes is sent to rescue her. But, before she is rescued, she eats some pomegranate seeds which ensure that she will return to the underworld for a third of each year.

Hermes doing the rescuing is almost an incidental figure. The higher part of the soul - Demeter - is reunited with the manifesting part - Persephone/Kore - with the understanding that this is an endless cycle of creation and destruction.

In Jewish hands, the goddess becomes a -jezebel- who has to be rescued by her brother/lover, Christ. Of course, if you look at the whole story, you can see that the Virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene play the parts of Demeter and Kore, though all the focus is on the dying/resurrecting godman. But still, the emphasis has changed subtly to a male aspect that excludes the essential giving/birthing nature of the goddess.

Well, I've rambled enough here. I just want to give a gentle warning about some of the subtle twists to these ideas that may occlude the nature of the choice that is mandatory at this level in order to move to the next level.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Laura:

Yes, this is so according to the gnostic references and that is what influenced Jung as far as I can see.

There is much in this book that implies a great connection with Jung and alchemy. There is quite a bit of alchemical artwork in this book, from books such as Andrea De Pascalis, Alchemy, The Golden Art: "The Secrets of the Oldest Enigma". ( 3rd picture attached, which shows an alchemist illuminated.)

One that shows the "nigredo" stage of alchemy associated with the black sun is attached- That would be the bottom black ball in the 4 ball stack, representing the 4 stages of transformation. ( 1st attachment)

Then, there is also "The Stone of Solar and Lunar Conjunction Turned Into The Black Sun Of Death", From Johannes Fabricius, Alchemy: The Medieval Alchemists and Their Royal Art. ( 2nd attachment) This picture reminded me of when you had the stripped to the bone experience, Laura.


From the art in the book and the references , that connects it to the 2nd image in my above posts for me. So in that essence, it does not connect to STS, but to a process. That process, as I have deduced from your writing, applies to what we are trying to do here. The chymical wedding is mentioned several times in this book also. A solar eclipse is also a process, which is what it represents in physical terms. It is not the same " thing" as a black hole is a thing.

This art in particular, as well as some of the text in the book, was what prompted me to ask about your alchemy lectures, fwiw.

Now, I do not have the knowledge you have by a long shot, so I could be off in left field. I am only telling you what I see.

There seems to be a basis to state that there is alchemical symbolism for " the black sun" , or sol niger, that is not related to the gnostics. OSIT





.

 

[Laura]

Then, there is also "The Stone of Solar and Lunar Conjunction Turned Into The Black Sun Of Death", From Johannes Fabricius, Alchemy: The Medieval Alchemists and Their Royal Art. ( 2nd attachment) This picture reminded me of when you had the stripped to the bone experience, Laura.

Well, as far as I can see, what we are dealing with here is perspective: is the glass half-full or half-empty? And that question can only be answered if you know whether you are filling it or drinking it.

From the art in the book and the references , that connects it to the 2nd image in my above posts for me. So in that essence, it does not connect to STS, but to a process. That process, as I have deduced from your writing, applies to what we are trying to do here. The chymical wedding is mentioned several times in this book also. A solar eclipse is also a process, which is what it represents in physical terms. It is not the same " thing" as a black hole is a thing.

There is the contemplation of the darkness with the intent to understand - illuminate - it, and the contemplation of the darkness with the wish to be subsumed in it. And make no mistake about it: this point is crucial and has been craftily masked in many ways, many fine words, many illustrations and allusions. You don't know this, of course, until you are there, in the pit.

This art in particular, as well as some of the text in the book, was what prompted me to ask about your alchemy lectures, fwiw.

I see.

Now, I do not have the knowledge you have by a long shot, so I could be off in left field. I am only telling you what I see.

There seems to be a basis to state that there is alchemical symbolism for " the black sun" , or sol niger, that is not related to the gnostics. OSIT

The problem here is trying to tease out anything from alchemy that did not, originally, derive from the gnostics. So far as I've been able to track it, alchemy is merely the renaissance of gnosticism in post Dark Ages Europe. It put on a different cloak. The myths and symbolism are pretty much identical but, again, as I have mentioned, there is often a schizoidal taint from the Jewish mysticism.

In order to really understand these cross-correspondences you have to read a whole lot of literature on both "schools".

 

[SolarMother]

go2
Quote
The Black Sun is the bright light of the masculine sun eclipsed by the dark feminine of the moon. The eclipse is a transient phenomenon of descent into darkness of suffering and despair. For me, the Black Sun symbolizes the wedding of one who has experienced and embraced both the full measure of the physical limitations and the spiritual possibilities of our human life. Suffering, betrayal, illness, war, despair, and resistance are the dark reality of human life in the flesh. The light of the sun is the higher aspiration of service, joy, science, initiative, and spirit. The Black Sun is marriage of darkness and light.

Thank you EM, for starting this thread.

FWIW, one could read go2's quote above as what it was before the inversion of sun and moon by the patriarchy: "The Black Sun is the bright light of the feminine sun eclipsed by the dark masculine of the moon. The eclipse is a transient phenomenon of descent into darkness of suffering and despair..."

Laura

However, the most ancient and influential of the Mysteries was the myth of Demeter and Persephone/Kore which removes the dying and resurrecting god twist.

In Jewish hands, the goddess becomes a -jezebel- who has to be rescued by her brother/lover, Christ. Of course, if you look at the whole story, you can see that the Virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene play the parts of Demeter and Kore, though all the focus is on the dying/resurrecting godman. But still, the emphasis has changed subtly to a male aspect that excludes the essential giving/birthing nature of the goddess.

Just to add something to what Laura is saying--where my thoughts go to in all of this, is the lost (raped) maiden at the well, the right brain...and the eclipse of the sun (being) as Janet McCrickard points out in her book of the same title (which EM mentions earlier in thread) as being a feminine sun eclipsed by (my add:STS non-being) the masculine moon. The sun is life giving/nurturing in it's supernal feminine meaning.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Laura,

I have been going over this in my mind with everything you have written in this post . I think that it is Clarissa's Baba Yaga associated with this symbol/archetype more than Mother Night. That would make more sense with the Kali Ma association, as her function is the same as well.

Specifically this:
In a number of East European myths, a Baba Yaga (there are more than one) is a cannibalistic witch who lives in a hut on the edge of the forest. The hut stands on chicken legs and will only lower itself after Baba Yaga said a certain rhyme. A picket fence surrounds the hut and she places the skulls of her victims on it. For transportation Baba Yaga uses a giant mortar which she drives at high speed across the forest floor by steering the pestle with her right hand and sweeping away all traces of her passage with a broom in her left hand. A host of spirits often follows her.
Baba Yaga is often represented as a little, ugly, old woman with a huge and distorted nose and long teeth. She is also called Jezi-Baba or Baba Yaga Kostianaya Noga ("bone-legs"), referring to the fact that she is rather skinny. She is regarded as the devil's own grandmother.
In old Hungarian folklore, Baba ("old woman") was originally a good fairy but was later degraded to a witch. A Baba Yaga is a hard bargainer, and will threaten to eat those who do not fulfil their part of an agreement

This reveals the "process", so to speak.


If I am on the right track here, that would tie into the Demeter story as part of the triple goddesss, completing it with Persephone/Kore. I am guessing Hecate, in this triple. Hecate represent "crossroads".That would be the uncorrupted pagan version the gnostics built on and "twisted". OSIT It would also imply wisdom ( crone) or wisdom path.

Represents birth, death, rebirth.

Am I in the ball park here?

 

[Azur]

There is the contemplation of the darkness with the intent to understand - illuminate - it, and the contemplation of the darkness with the wish to be subsumed in it. And make no mistake about it: this point is crucial and has been craftily masked in many ways, many fine words, many illustrations and allusions. You don't know this, of course, until you are there, in the pit.

Reading this reminded me of another saying I had come across:

“The real meaning of enlightenment is to gaze with undimmed eyes on all darkness.”

 

[Azur]

What's going on in this thread?

Looks like speculation heavily based on interpreted symbols being exchanged between flawed and/or incomplete models of reality using limited senses.

What am I not seeing?

Can you help to point out the flaws, since I am guessing by your post you must see more than we do, and point out the errors?

I don't know why you would think I see more than you do. I was simply pointing out the dangers of ascribing meaning to symbols or assuming such meaning (or adopting someone else's understanding) without rigorous auditing of one's own assumptions (your personal 'take') while trying to decipher them.

I was, basically, repeating obyvatel's gentle warning to you. You even quoted it in a response, but seemed to gloss over it.

This is the first time I have looked deeper into this symbol, as I stated earlier, and I think the same can be said for Obyvatal, based on his posts. How else can one learn if not by trying to suss things out? That is what I thought we were doing- having a discussion, and stating what we were seeing.

For sure all good, in intent.

It's the reason I said: "What am I not seeing?"

I ask myself this all the time. It makes me re-examine what I think I know, and how I got to accept that I know it.

If I am wrong or way off base in my perceptions I surely hope someone who can see the error will tell me.

Between your reply and this one, there's been some invaluable material provided to ponder!

Add: After giving this some more thought I have to question your intention of this post you made, and how it was worded. The impression I got from it, reminded me of how I used to feel when I was little, and I was interested in something new, and was told it, or I, was ridiculous or stupid. My enthusiasm just zapped and fizzled.

Now, I am not saying that is how you meant it. That was just the "flavor" your post reminded me of . I cannot shake the feeling that there was more implied here beneath the surface.

:(

I've no idea who you are or why you would react this way upon reading a three line post directed at the discussion at hand and not at anybody in particular.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Azur:

I don't know why you would think I see more than you do. I was simply pointing out the dangers of ascribing meaning to symbols or assuming such meaning (or adopting someone else's understanding) without rigorous auditing of one's own assumptions (your personal 'take') while trying to decipher them.

I was, basically, repeating obyvatel's gentle warning to you. You even quoted it in a response, but seemed to gloss over it.

I thought that you must see more than we did because for some one to say something seems flawed and incomplete, and that participants were using limited senses, one would have to have a larger scope and understanding to make such a statement. If you were meaning what you are saying here, it fell short of the mark.

I did not gloss over his warning, I just knew there was something more here, in addition to the valid points he was seeing.

I've no idea who you are or why you would react this way upon reading a three line post directed at the discussion at hand and not at anybody in particular.

The way it was worded seemed rude, no matter where it was directed. Perhaps I should have just said that.

I will say that it is possible I was reacting to "program", but I did not feel emotional in in any sense. Like I said it was just the flavor.

 

[Laura]

Always keep in mind that English is not the first language of about half the members of this forum. Sometimes, things are written by non-native speakers that seem rude but are not intended that way. Not saying that this is the case here, but it bears repeating.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Always keep in mind that English is not the first language of about half the members of this forum. Sometimes, things are written by non-native speakers that seem rude but are not intended that way. Not saying that this is the case here, but it bears repeating.

Thanks for the reminder , Laura.

I will add here that I did check his language listed, and also went back and read all of his posts to see if there were any prior misunderstanding/communication issues with this "flavor" in the past before I made my post. I know/knew there was a possibility it could just be my perception. After reading everything, I felt I should say what I did.

 

[anart]

Always keep in mind that English is not the first language of about half the members of this forum. Sometimes, things are written by non-native speakers that seem rude but are not intended that way. Not saying that this is the case here, but it bears repeating.

Thanks for the reminder , Laura.

I will add here that I did check his language listed, and also went back and read all of his posts to see if there were any prior misunderstanding/communication issues with this "flavor" in the past before I made my post. I know/knew there was a possibility it could just be my perception. After reading everything, I felt I should say what I did.

Help me understand - are you saying that after reading all of his posts you decided you should correct him?

Azur has had a tendency to be obscure and even less than internally considerate at times with his posts. His past behavior doesn't necessarily determine his present behavior, however. While he could have provided more information in his post on this thread to make it more clear exactly where he had an issue, I do think it's worth considering that your self-importance was scratched by what he had to say, and this may be where the energy came from to motivate you to read his 762 posts?