Canning meat/what Equipment is needed, how much canning is necessary

[Foxx]

I think that after pressure-canning all traces of alcohol should be gone and the taste of the spirit in question still present (used cognac in the past, which I got as a present, but don't use at all).

I could be wrong, but I'm not sure that the alcohol would depart when canning. It should be evaporating, but if you're canning an already closed container, then it won't have anywhere to evaporate to, so I think it would condense somewhere in the container.

I'm not certain that this would be the case--just my alternative hypothesis from my current understanding.

 

[nicklebleu]

I think that after pressure-canning all traces of alcohol should be gone and the taste of the spirit in question still present (used cognac in the past, which I got as a present, but don't use at all).

I could be wrong, but I'm not sure that the alcohol would depart when canning. It should be evaporating, but if you're canning an already closed container, then it won't have anywhere to evaporate to, so I think it would condense somewhere in the container.

I'm not certain that this would be the case--just my alternative hypothesis from my current understanding.

From what I understand the pressure canning process (not having done it yet - my pressure cooker is on the way!) the alcohol should evaporate for two reasons:
- At the start of the process you need to vent the pressure cooker for ten minutes, which would entrain all evaporates outside
- During the canning process the heat should be adapted such as the canner is "spitting" at regular intervals, again venting steam and evaporates outside

As I said I am a newbie in this department, so I stand to be corrected.

 

[aragorn]

After searching around I found a Presto 23qt canner within the country but the price(over 350usd!) I thought to be ridiculous. Not even sure it was new.

Luckily a friend is driving down from the states soon and though his car is small, I think he has room for an All-American 10qt.

Is this too small? It says 7pts or 4qts per go, maybe this is too inefficient? We don't have a huge amount of time on our hands atm. It doesn't sound as though the 15qt is much bigger... should I bribe the driver? Ebay has both, used and for a pretty good price. Used should be fine right?

Still looking for a reasonably-priced source for the jars.

Based on what I've read, I have to say that I'm not sure. Some sources say, that if the canner is too small (<16qt), it heats up and cools down too fast making things unsafe. On the other hand, the AA brand has a very good reputation, so I would be surprised if they haven't thought about this when constructing the 10qt model. Some canners say that as long as you can fit 4qts into the canner, you're okay. Have you considered the 15qt? It's not that much bigger. The Presto canner is considered good, too. It's made of aluminum, so it's not as heavy as the AA. It's not recommended to buy used canners, better to invest in a new one.

I've just found a pretty decent forum, discussing canning and preserving. Maybe you can find some answers there: _http://canningpantryforum.yuku.com

ADDED: The forum I linked to above is an excellent source for information, especially for us canning newbies. There basically seems to be one very active member 'mcnerd' who patiently answers questions about canning. Check it out!

 

[nicklebleu]

After searching around I found a Presto 23qt canner within the country but the price(over 350usd!) I thought to be ridiculous. Not even sure it was new.

Luckily a friend is driving down from the states soon and though his car is small, I think he has room for an All-American 10qt.

Is this too small? It says 7pts or 4qts per go, maybe this is too inefficient? We don't have a huge amount of time on our hands atm. It doesn't sound as though the 15qt is much bigger... should I bribe the driver? Ebay has both, used and for a pretty good price. Used should be fine right?

Still looking for a reasonably-priced source for the jars.

Based on what I've read, I have to say that I'm not sure. Some sources say, that if the canner is too small (<16qt), it heats up and cools down too fast making things unsafe. On the other hand, the AA brand has a very good reputation, so I would be surprised if they haven't thought about this when constructing the 10qt model. Some canners say that as long as you can fit 4qts into the canner, you're okay. Have you considered the 15qt? It's not that much bigger. The Presto canner is considered good, too. It's made of aluminum, so it's not as heavy as the AA. It's not recommended to buy used canners, better to invest in a new one.

I've just found a pretty decent forum, discussing canning and preserving. Maybe you can find some answers there: _http://canningpantryforum.yuku.com

Again based on what I have read about different canners there is the fact that the AA doesn't have a seal between the cooker and the top (like the Presto canner) but has a direct metal-to-metal seal. On the long run this seems to be a big advantage to me as rubber seals (or similar) wear out over time and need to be replaced, whereas the AA canner won't need that. If things turn ugly it might become impossible to source a seal and your canner is thus rendered useless. Of course you can buy a bunch of seals now and keep them for future replacement ...

Just another thing to bear in mind.

 

[Laura]

The canning process extracts air from inside the jars because they are not sealed super tight. It does it at VERY high temps. This, then, would also remove any alcohol. When the jar cools down from those high temps, the vacuum seal is formed.

 

[SoCurious]

While I think preparations in the way of storing food for uncertain or catastrophic times is prudent and worthwhile, I have to ask "How much is enough?"

What will your response be when starving people show up on your doorstep begging for food? I can't imagine myself turning anyone away. 2 years worth of food would probably be gone within a week, or less.

Another point to consider is that if you're suspected of having food available you're likely to be reported to the authorities who will confiscate all you have to redistribute. I also doubt that living in the countryside will help much as this would be the first place the "authorities" will search, besides which, starving city folk are very likely to leave the cities in droves looking for food on farms.

I'm not for a second suggesting anyone stop preparing....this is a measure that would be efficacious if really large numbers of people did it. But they won't.

Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[LQB]

While I think preparations in the way of storing food for uncertain or catastrophic times is prudent and worthwhile, I have to ask "How much is enough?"

What will your response be when starving people show up on your doorstep begging for food? I can't imagine myself turning anyone away. 2 years worth of food would probably be gone within a week, or less.

Another point to consider is that if you're suspected of having food available you're likely to be reported to the authorities who will confiscate all you have to redistribute. I also doubt that living in the countryside will help much as this would be the first place the "authorities" will search, besides which, starving city folk are very likely to leave the cities in droves looking for food on farms.

I'm not for a second suggesting anyone stop preparing....this is a measure that would be efficacious if really large numbers of people did it. But they won't.

Does anyone have any ideas?

There is another way to think about it. The PTB structure probably does not want utter collapse into chaos where no food is available - they would lose control in a hurry. They will probably go for controlled collapse in which they can institute all kinds of fascist control measures using "emergency" as excuse. They will provide food in exchange for compliance. This "food" is not likely to be anything that forum folks here would want to eat. So by storing your own food, you might avoid the compliance, and have food that is worth eating (since it may be hard to find post-collapse. Just my thoughts ...

 

[SoCurious]

There is another way to think about it. The PTB structure probably does not want utter collapse into chaos where no food is available - they would lose control in a hurry. They will probably go for controlled collapse in which they can institute all kinds of fascist control measures using "emergency" as excuse. They will provide food in exchange for compliance. This "food" is not likely to be anything that forum folks here would want to eat. So by storing your own food, you might avoid the compliance, and have food that is worth eating (since it may be hard to find post-collapse. Just my thoughts ...

Good thinking. The severity of the collapse is a major consideration. If it's controllable that's all to the benefit of the PTB. If it's major - occuring in conjunction with, say, severe cometary impact, I doubt the PTB will be of much influence one way the other.

 

[nicklebleu]

There is another way to think about it. The PTB structure probably does not want utter collapse into chaos where no food is available - they would lose control in a hurry. They will probably go for controlled collapse in which they can institute all kinds of fascist control measures using "emergency" as excuse. They will provide food in exchange for compliance. This "food" is not likely to be anything that forum folks here would want to eat. So by storing your own food, you might avoid the compliance, and have food that is worth eating (since it may be hard to find post-collapse. Just my thoughts ...

Good thinking. The severity of the collapse is a major consideration. If it's controllable that's all to the benefit of the PTB. If it's major - occuring in conjunction with, say, severe cometary impact, I doubt the PTB will be of much influence one way the other.

In case of an apocalyptic event all bets are off anyway and in that scenario we'll have to make things up as we go along.

I also think that the benefit does not only lie with the food that's put aside. It's also the knowledge and techniques of storing and preserving that could be valuable in a post-apocalyptic world. And having the paraphernalia to do it.

I remember the movie "Into the Wild", which describes the death of a young man in the Canadian wilderness when he didn't manage to cross a river back to civilisation after his supplies ran out. Shortly before he died of hunger he shot a big animal (moose or bear, don't remember), but the meat just rotted away. With this animal alone he could have survived for a few weeks (his body was found by hunters a little bit later) had he known ways to preserve/ dry/ smoke/ cook it.

The point I am trying to make is that these are all valuable skills to master for whatever comes.

 

[aragorn]

I succeeded in doing my first canning session today. After triple checking the instructions I got the confidence to warm up "the beast" (the 23qt canner is so big, you know).

As a trial run, I made 4 pints of raw packed beef chunks with a little salt and black pepper. All jars sealed properly and the meat inside looked actually very yummy. What surprised me was how little heat you need from the stove once you've got the pressure up, that saves a lot of energy.

For you Presto canner owners: I don't know if you've had the same problem, but in order to get the pressure lock to finally pop up I had to nudge it a bit upwards with the tip of a knife. Even with full heat it just didn't pop all the way up, and there was steam coming through it and thus leaking the building pressure out.

Since I don't have the pressure regulator weights (yet), I came up with an idea how to monitor the dial gauge better. I covered the left side of the gauge with some tape, adjusting the right border exactly where the desired pressure was (11PSI). In this way I could easily see from a distance if the needle vanished behind the tape.

Next time I'll try canning ground beef - lots of it. :)

 

[Mikey]

They will probably go for controlled collapse in which they can institute all kinds of fascist control measures using "emergency" as excuse. They will provide food in exchange for compliance. This "food" is not likely to be anything that forum folks here would want to eat. So by storing your own food, you might avoid the compliance, and have food that is worth eating (since it may be hard to find post-collapse. Just my thoughts ...

Or you take your "emergency ration" and trade it for something better.

 

[LQB]

They will probably go for controlled collapse in which they can institute all kinds of fascist control measures using "emergency" as excuse. They will provide food in exchange for compliance. This "food" is not likely to be anything that forum folks here would want to eat. So by storing your own food, you might avoid the compliance, and have food that is worth eating (since it may be hard to find post-collapse. Just my thoughts ...

Or you take your "emergency ration" and trade it for something better.

Yes - I thought about that after I posted. And most folks today would probably think you crazy if you wanted to trade for lard! :P

 

[Rich]

We found the source of the canning jars so we got them in bulk, too.

In the UK I can't seem to find jars any cheaper than £3 per jar, would you be able to provide contact details for your supplier to see if they ship to UK or if not a day trip to France would probably be more cost effective.

 

[Ollie]

We found the source of the canning jars so we got them in bulk, too.

In the UK I can't seem to find jars any cheaper than £3 per jar, would you be able to provide contact details for your supplier to see if they ship to UK or if not a day trip to France would probably be more cost effective.

I agree. :)

 

[doublea1535]

Could you tell me how much boiling water you were using for the regular pressure cooker?

Pressure cookers, or canners, work by heating the entire chamber up by steam, and cooking the contents of the jars via that. That's why you only need a few inches or water, to provide an ample source of steam. Water bathing jars requires that all jars be covered with at least 2 inches of water, because they heat up the jars from the water, and you want enough extra water on top.