NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

[choepel]

I'm reading the book "Psychological Commentaries on the Teaching of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky - tome 1" by Maurice Nicoll and today I read a section about the brain that I found interesting and showing in a certain manner that the brain has many choices to rewire his own brain.

That looks like a really interesting read!

Generally, the brain follows the same natural laws of self regulation that all of nature does. So long as extrinsic factors such as human beings don't contaminate the system, the self regulation works well. This really would seem to be the same self regulation that David Bohm talks of in the implicate order (not that I am very familiar with that). But when the brain's self regulation is contaminated by factors such as stress, it starts to lose its ability to self regulate, or it can lose it almost completely (similar to blood sugar regulation and diabetes). NO is providing the information so that the brain can get back on track.

During my discussions with researchers Corinne Fournier and Pierre Bohn, they talked very much about the Power Law and distribution of electrical events in the brain and their magnitude. They explained how a well-optimised brain will come close to the typical power law graph (mathematicians will understand this far more than I do). One of their explanations about how NO works is that in a poorly regulated brain, there are too many large sized electrical events, and these are precisely the events being interrupted by NO. So NO returns the brain to its intrinsic and natural functioning, in line with power laws that have been observed in all natural systems.

 

[choepel]

I remember when using NO that all the zen modes increased to longer lengths when doing extended. How is that not producing more brain training?

That is a good question. Val has not explained more, other than to say that the 45 minute session is just the 33 minute session with an addition of 12 minutes chill out time. He has said that he has included everything that he can include and achieve in the 33 minutes. He has not explained so far as I know why that can not be extended beyond the 33 minutes. He has been asked if we can run sessions back to back and he has suggested no - processing time for the brain is needed. He usually comes back to reminding us that NO is a brain training and he uses the analogy of fitness training, where there is an optimal amount of training and a rest period that is required before repeating.

 

[beetlemaniac]

Thanks all for the interesting feedback. It's shed a lot more light on the workings of NO.

From what I understand, NO seems to provide it's user with more free will, essentially, since it improves neuronal flexibility and resilience. The resilience should also translate to better formation and retention of neural networks which means better learning.

I've had 14 sessions so far. I've been having sleep troubles as of late, with constant background chatter in my brain. Recently also had a fever which really put me out though I managed to push myself out of it by focusing on work. I'm thinking of giving NO a break for now. Let's see how it turns out in the next few weeks. That would also mean that I would have to replace the time spent travelling and doing NO with something useful and productive, which would entail making some choices.

I had stopped reading for a while due to lack of focus and poor attention, and thinking about it would fill me with anxiety and dread. Throughout the NO sessions, I was reading on a relatively consistent basis (I recently finished 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson) and that has given me a little bit of confidence and, maybe a little bit of a counter-emotion (?) to the anxiety and dread. I plan to segment some time for reading during my downtime and I'll see where that takes me. Other than that, I feel the need for more social activity and of course, physical activity as well. I'm thinking of making some simple body weight exercises a-la Body by Science a weekly practice. I've also enrolled in a weekly tennis class.

 

[whitecoast]

Had my sixth session yesterday. Since I don't remember it being described here, I've sometimes felt the urge to giggle and laugh during the first third of this session. The same thing has happened in other sessions, and sometimes during reiki and cold showers as well.

 

[maxtree]

I had my 12th NO session . After the 5th, in the evening, I thought that my head would explode. It hurt a lot. I woke up every two hours, got up smoked a cigarette went back to bed and immediately fell asleep. Two hours later the same and this until 7 am.
Woke up refreshed and not tired. That day I had my 6th and this time I could not sleep at all. My brain seemed to be in overdrive but did not hurt. Felt very tired but could't sleep.
After the 7th my sleeping pattern went back to normal.
My baseline started at Hz500 and at the 12th it got down to Hz129 . Don't know what that means exactly...
What I do notice is that I am less restless, less judgmental towards others and myself and feeling a calm inside that I am not used to. I have the impression that there is a breakup of a program. On the one hand I feel ok with it and on the other hand I am a little anxious. Maybe afraid of the unknown.? Thanks to Samenow I observe my thinking and am sometimes able to turn around a negative pattern.
I will continu the trainings once a week and will see what happens next. I do the sessions in Brussels and it takes 4hours the journey by train and tram. The funny thing is that on the tram on I hear languages from all over the world except dutch/flemish, my mothertongue. So every time it is an adventurous trip as well on the inside as on the outside.

 

[choepel]

From what I understand, NO seems to provide it's user with more free will, essentially, since it improves neuronal flexibility and resilience. The resilience should also translate to better formation and retention of neural networks which means better learning.

Yes, NeurOptimal returns us to the present and lets us see our choices more clearly. And NO is directly connected to the learning capability of the brain (Fournier and Bohn, in their research, discussed Hebbian learning and how NO leads to a strengthening of neural connections and release of calcium which is key for brain learning).

I've had 14 sessions so far. I've been having sleep troubles as of late, with constant background chatter in my brain. Recently also had a fever which really put me out though I managed to push myself out of it by focusing on work. I'm thinking of giving NO a break for now. Let's see how it turns out in the next few weeks. That would also mean that I would have to replace the time spent travelling and doing NO with something useful and productive, which would entail making some choices.

Sleep troubles are generally a sign of a struggling brain. However, often during the NO process, our sleep becomes apparently disordered and as it moves towards a healthier pattern or as confusion clears up. In my experience of using NO, if we can bring a conscious intent towards opening up, releasing patterns and experiencing life in a new way, NO will often light up the way. Ultimately NO is way more than a tool that can help with therapeutic issues. It is a profound transformational tool. (the official Zengar line is not to have expectations while doing NO - but my experience goes beyond that - using conscious intent while letting go seems to supercharge it).

When you arrive at the stage of feeling like a break from NO, it is important to check deeply with yourself:

Is it your brain letting you know that it needs time to process (I have often needed to take several months break)?
Or is it resistance to that which is emerging and trying to change?

Of course, only you can know.

I wish you well on your journey Beetlemaniac

 

[Glenn]

I've had 14 sessions so far. I've been having sleep troubles as of late, with constant background chatter in my brain. Recently also had a fever which really put me out though I managed to push myself out of it by focusing on work. I'm thinking of giving NO a break for now. Let's see how it turns out in the next few weeks. That would also mean that I would have to replace the time spent travelling and doing NO with something useful and productive, which would entail making some choices.

I have had 6 sessions so far, the last one being a 45 min session, and I can relate to what you are saying. I seemed to reach a point where my mind feels kind of grungy. And last night I really couldn't sleep well. I just felt really uncomfortable, I felt really hot even though it is not so hot here, and I had this strange feeling of being over tired, but not able to sleep. I am not being directed to anything specific, but maybe it is just old stresses and fears and anxieties that are being released on a cellular level. I will push through and see where it leads.

 

[Ellipse]

I felt really hot even though it is not so hot here, and I had this strange feeling of being over tired, but not able to sleep.

I know well this feeling and I don't talk about NO. This is when I overwork at night, going far the point I should have started to sleep. Here is the phases:
1/ being sleepy
2/ overcoming this
3/ being OK
4/ feeling of being over tired but not able to sleep

And more I stay in phase 3 or 4 by no resting, more longer it take me to be able to sleep. Can be two days if I do the things well

So I would advice you to suspend NO and stay in the bed calmly. Even if you do not sleep your body rest and all the system cool down. The point is to have some patience.

And I know the sensation to be hot too. I think it's a nerve reaction.

 

[Chu]

Ultimately NO is way more than a tool that can help with therapeutic issues. It is a profound transformational tool. (the official Zengar line is not to have expectations while doing NO - but my experience goes beyond that - using conscious intent while letting go seems to supercharge it).

Interesting that you mention that. I've had the same experience. I thought that perhaps I was trying to control the process too much, but when I do think consciously about an issue during NO while trying not to judge but with resolve, or focus on a specific intellectual task, it seems to have a greater effect that if I just tell myself to let go, and let things happen. Maybe there is something to using conscious intent during the training, as if the system could detect the patterns that are problematic, thus helping to correct thinking errors?

 

[Yas]

In my experience of using NO, if we can bring a conscious intent towards opening up, releasing patterns and experiencing life in a new way, NO will often light up the way. Ultimately NO is way more than a tool that can help with therapeutic issues. It is a profound transformational tool. (the official Zengar line is not to have expectations while doing NO - but my experience goes beyond that - using conscious intent while letting go seems to supercharge it).

Interesting that you mention that. I've had the same experience. I thought that perhaps I was trying to control the process too much, but when I do think consciously about an issue during NO while trying not to judge but with resolve, or focus on a specific intellectual task, it seems to have a greater effect that if I just tell myself to let go, and let things happen. Maybe there is something to using conscious intent during the training, as if the system could detect the patterns that are problematic, thus helping to correct thinking errors?

That's interesting. For me it's been the opposite. I had a few sessions where I tried to focus on something specific or couldn't fall asleep or semi-sleep during the training, and I felt as if these didn't work very well. It's subtle, I know they did and I still had the effects afterwards, but for me, that feeling that something did happen during the training and also the reduction of the overall anxiety and fear is far stronger when I totally relax during the sessions.

My practitioner says it's better to relax and even sleep because that takes some of the noisy thoughts away and the brain can use more resources to do what it has to do, something like that. She also says that the process it's subconscious so even though you could think about something consciously, it would be generally very different to what the brain is actually working on... but I also tend to think that it could be good to focus on something in particular during the training.

I also think that it might depend a lot on the person. For example, my thoughts can be generally noisy and not really helpful to the training, so "my brain knows better", so to say... while you might have a better clue about what you actually need to work on and a better ability to focus on that in the proper way (like in a way that connects conscious and subconscious (?) ) so that it becomes useful for your training. I don't know, it's just an idea.

When I read choepel's post, I thought more about having conscious intent towards working on those things between sessions, not during the training itself. Now, I'm thinking that maybe it's good to have a combination of sessions where you do fall asleep or really relax and sessions where you work consciously on some issues like what you describe. Chu.

 

[Laura]

Well, today, during my 30-something session, I spent most of the time just scanning over my life and stopping to look at moments that usually can send me into horrible "beating up the self" sessions; you know, things you did under pressure that you would give your right arm to do over? We'll see how that turns out.

 

[fabric]

I've tried to focus on specific issues or think about a particular thing many sessions and I simply can't do it. Anytime I try to my thoughts just keep going in different directions and can't focus on any one particular thing for too long. But I also don't fall asleep and towards the end I'm not really thinking about anything at all and in a meditative state. Although, for today's session I did manage to read for almost 10 minutes before I started to feel too tired and unable to concentrate. Perhaps after more sessions I'll be able to do something like that (focus on issues and consciously work through them or even read a book). As it stands now, doing NO still feels like a heavy load on the brain and I can't do much else until after I'm done!

 

[nature]

I think that Vald stumble on a EEG pattern which was appearing on a repetitiveness base, the "fluttering". But you have, indeed, to correlate it with the fact that sending a feedback will balance the brain. Totally astonishing for me, but neuroscience is a domain I absolutely don't know. Some reading in perspective for sure.

Among you acquaintance, don't you have a neurologist or someone doing research on the brain?

Once I known a such person but it's at least 10 years ago and when I asked him about his research he made me laugh because he said me something like "yeah we saw a lot of things going on with the brain but so what?". I understood he was not all right with the direction of the research or disappointed.

No, the neurologists I knew were clinicians, they deal with maladies, prescribe drugs.
So as to researchers, generally speaking, they search complicated things, they often don't see the easy, simple solution that can rise in front of them. Same for myself: when I started to read and learn about neurofeedback, I first was seduced by websites and articles talking about complex devices and methods that use multiple electrods on the scalp, where the practitionner do an EEG and try to 'correct' the abnormal EEG frequency, etc. Whereas there is a natural, simple and efficient method, NO, letting the brain process itself. All my gratitude to Val Brown for his NO device and to Laura and team for guiding us.

 

[Niall]

I've done about 15 sessions. I slept deeply through the first bunch, but lately, even if I try to 'nap', I'm alert throughout. Other than that, I've noticed no tangible effects.

 

[Yozilla]

Yes, it can be really difficult with long hair and by yourself. Some people find mirrors useful and some people put lots of clips in place. But, it turns out that getting the exact locations (C3 an C4) is not that important. Even several cm off is still fine to pick up global cortical activity. What seems more important is symmetry.

Maybe than some kind of "sensor helmet" (lets call it crown) could be constructed (even for different head sizes like: M, L, XXL), like some kind of frame on which sensors could be fixed and screwed towards head - so it would not matter if one is bold or has too much hair... Something like JGgeropulas' IR helm in this thread: The infrabed