Прошу позвонить на передачу "Вынос Мозга" профессора Савельева на радио "Говорит Москва"

[SlavaOn]

Друзья.

Прошу, кто сможет, в субботу утром с11 до 12 дозвониться на радио "Говорит Москва" в передачу известного невробиолога профессора Сергея Вячеславовича Савельева "Вынос мозга": Говорит Москва

Он прекрасный популяризатро невробиологии и разбираеться в ней досконально. Я писал про его идеи и теории: Humanity Is Deciding If It Will Evolve Or Die

Вопрос, который я бы хотел задать профессору - Какое у него менение про neuro-feedback. Множество участников нашего форума работали с приборами, позволяющими слушать свои нервные частоты/тона в головном мозге и смогли их подстраивать за счет обратной связи. Я совсем не понял, какая за этим стоит наука. Надеюсь профессор Савельев доступно объяснит этот эффект.

Вопросы принимаються 2 раза в течении передачи по телефону, а также через СМС и т.п..

8 (495) 950-62-26
info@govoritmoskva.ru

СлаваОн

 

[aimarok]

It's a good manner to translate posts to English so people not speaking some particular language would be able to understand it.

Speaking about NF, I don't honestly think that we need an opinion from someone not practicing NF. There is a lot of material on NF including books, and many people here already studied it. If you want to clear some questions for yourself there is a nice blog about NF in Russian NEURO-FITNESS - Блог о нейрофидбэке и развитии мозга.

 

[aimarok]

As a side note I'd like add that you'd better be careful of becoming "fan" of someone because there's only one step from it to become a "fanatic". Creating an authority for yourself hinders your critical thinking.

 

[Keit]

Yes, I agree. So far there doesn't appear to be any good reason to do it.

 

[SlavaOn]

As a side note I'd like add that you'd better be careful of becoming "fan" of someone because there's only one step from it to become a "fanatic". Creating an authority for yourself hinders your critical thinking.

Thank you for the warning, aimarok!

Are you a fan of anything yourself?

 

[SlavaOn]

Speaking about NF, I don't honestly think that we need an opinion from someone not practicing NF. There is a lot of material on NF including books, and many people here already studied it. If you want to clear some questions for yourself there is a nice blog about NF in Russian NEURO-FITNESS - Блог о нейрофидбэке и развитии мозга.

I have visited the site that you mentioned. Thanks for the link! The fact, that there was no single citation to a scientific study, confirmed my hunch that neuro-feedback could be overhyped. Who is sergey.neurofeedback@gmail.com ? A marketeer? He said that it is sooo new:

Но ученые пока что только изучают возможности такого подхода к саморазвитию, так что данная технология является самым что ни на есть передним краем науки и потому до сих пор не имеет широкого применения, особенно в России.

and immediately provided a disclaimer:

И если данный факт пугает не сильно, то уже сегодня у нас есть возможность прикоснуться к будущему и испробовать эту технологию на себе.

Being cautious, I am afraid to test the unknown technology without it being tested on subjects that are "less afraid" first.
Have you tried it on yourself? Can you share the results, please?

 

[Keit]

The fact, that there was no single citation to a scientific study, confirmed my hunch that neuro-feedback could be overhyped.

Perhaps you haven't read the following thread?

 

[aimarok]

Thank you for the warning, aimarok!

Are you a fan of anything yourself?

Well, maybe I'm a fan of bacon This place was created for and by people ready to share and learn. We all have "bugs" in our programs and we try to "fix" them here together. Be prepared to get dissected and watch your reactions. Nobody's gonna insult you or show his/her superiority over you on this forum (there are exceptions but they move away pretty quickly one way or another). My advice was sincere. It's up to you what you will do with it.

 

[SlavaOn]

Perhaps you haven't read the following thread?

I was reading that thread, many of its 53 pages, over the last months. There was a lot of interesting feedback from the forum users who rented the equipment and went through multiple neuro-feedback sessions. After you mentioned it, I revisited the thread and was able to find only a single reply (#5) that referenced some scientific experiments related to neurofeedback: NeuroFeedback and Electroencephalography and a lot of Wikipedia links...
I am not against anything, but the inquiring mind wants to know :)

Since I became a "fan" of neurobiology I decided to look at everything (including neuro-feedback) with more critical eye. Neurobiology is a science that is based on physical evidence (structures in the brain, etcetera). Psychotherapy, on the other hand, is almost all talk. The measurements conducted are of the behavior. Of course, I am oversimplifying and/or exaggerating in my replies. I am not a scientist and give you only my opinion.

My question: what does neurofeedback changes in the brain (and/or nervous system)? I should post that question in "Neurofeedback-and-electroencephalography" thread, as well.

One of the staples of scientific approach is to distinguish the placebo effect of the drug/procedure/etc from a functional effect of the same. I will be looking to find any experiments, related to neurofeedback, where it was done. Please, point me in the right direction, if you have seen such studies.

 

[SlavaOn]

Well, maybe I'm a fan of bacon ... My advice was sincere. It's up to you what you will do with it.

Sorry if my question didn't get across the way I wanted. I am a fan of many things. You made me feel that being a fan is a slippery slope to fanaticism.

 

[SlavaOn]

A quick Google search came up with Better than sham? A double-blind placebo-controlled neurofeedback study in primary insomnia

 

[Keit]

After you mentioned it, I revisited the thread and was able to find only a single reply (#5) that referenced some scientific experiments related to neurofeedback: NeuroFeedback and Electroencephalography and a lot of Wikipedia links...
I am not against anything, but the inquiring mind wants to know :)

Sure, nothing wrong with wanting to know if there is any basis to any theory. But, yeah, better post all your questions on the NeuroFeedback and Electroencephalography thread. It's possible that you haven't seen all the data, so others may answer your questions.

In any case, one of the books that was shared on the thread is "A Symphony in the Brain: The Evolution of the New Brain Wave Biofeedback" by Jim Robbins. And it is a good overview of the available scientific data, especially for those, who tend to view neurofeedback as a new agey mambo-jumbo.

As for Saveliev, I can totally understand your fascination with him and what he says. But unfortunately there are also many things that don't go well with what people on this forum were able to uncover in their research. For example, one glaring omission is his emphasis on materialistic processes and structures, and his very negative view of anything paranormal or extraordinary. Sure, it's possible that some of the things he says still have merit, but in overall it probably doesn't deserve that much attention. At least this is my personal impression. I could be wrong, though.

 

[Keit]

A quick Google search came up with Better than sham? A double-blind placebo-controlled neurofeedback study in primary insomnia

I trully don't get it why do you use Saveliev and the Russian section of the forum to post your grievances against neurofeedback? We do have a thread for it, you know? This is very strange, since you are not new to this forum. Besides, why would you want US to pose a question to Saveliev, if you are perfectly capable of doing it yourself?

 

[SlavaOn]

Stand corrected. The "grievances" should have been done in the neurofeedback thread.

I posted my request in Russian-speaking forum hoping that people from Russia have a better chance to call in the radio show than a guy from the East coast...

 

[SlavaOn]

As for Saveliev, I can totally understand your fascination with him and what he says. But unfortunately there are also many things that don't go well with what people on this forum were able to uncover in their research. For example, one glaring omission is his emphasis on materialistic processes and structures, and his very negative view of anything paranormal or extraordinary. Sure, it's possible that some of the things he says still have merit, but in overall it probably doesn't deserve that much attention. At least this is my personal impression. I could be wrong, though.

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's..." If Saveliev is an expert on neurobiology, it makes sense to check with him any theories/procedures that claim to affect (have effect on) a human brain. I would not be asking his opinion on how C's are capable of communicating with Laura...