Jesus never existed and he was never crucified - Q as redux

Mark7

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Today is Good Friday. Jesus never existed, nor did he die for our sins - example of bad parenting if he did. Therefore, we must assume responsibility for our own sins - learning is fun! Q/Q-anon is supplementary Jesus/Moses for fundamentalist Christians. Thoughts?
 
Today is Good Friday. Jesus never existed, nor did he die for our sins - example of bad parenting if he did. Therefore, we must assume responsibility for our own sins - learning is fun! Q/Q-anon is supplementary Jesus/Moses for fundamentalist Christians. Thoughts?

Maybe you should read my new book as soon as it is out before you make such claims?
 
Maybe you should read my new book as soon as it is out before you make such claims?

Understood. But I cannot read your book before it is out. Perhaps you can give a preview of why my thinking is wrong, after all, I post my thoughts to get great critique, which I expect on this forum. I hope at least you can understand why I may have come to these (preliminary ) conclusions.
 
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Understood. But I cannot read your book before it is out. Perhaps you can give a preview of why my thinking is wrong, after all, I post my thoughts to get great critique, which I expect on this forum. I hope at least you can understand why I may have come to these (preliminary ) conclusions.

I think it would be considerate to wait a little while and read the book when it is out rather than expecting Laura to invest time and energy into explaining something she has already researched and explained very throughly and in great detail there.
 
I think it would be considerate to wait a little while and read the book when it is out rather than expecting Laura to invest time and energy into explaining something she has already researched and explained very throughly and in great detail there.
I was actually not thinking about Laura's new book when posting this thread. I am glad however, that her new book may shed some light on this subject area. I will not be wasting any time purchasing the book when it comes out.
 
The Passion of Christ is the narrative we happen to have now...and, you are right, it IS ancient. It has taken different twists and turns through history, many we can't even know. And the story says many things (mostly negative as I think about it) to humanity on a subconscious level. A message about all past heroes; a message to all future would-be heroes, and to all people who are hoping to be rescued by a hero: the hero is dead. He has died and was killed by lesser lights than he himself. You have no hope. And in fact, it is your fault the hero has died; YOU killed him/her.

Hope lies elsewhere, not in this world (true enough). Surrender; give up. You will suffer at the hands of this world your God has created. "Good" Friday? SRSLY? The creator allowed its creation to suffer and be destroyed. We are left to engage in theological hair-spitting apologia to try and reconcile a good meaning out of it. Jesus overcame death by dying and offers everlasting life. Overcoming death by dying sounds... ironically funny (a bit odd) to me. But in an equally odd way, like "Le Petit Prince", it also makes a certain amount of sense to me as well. Everlasting Life - Whoo Hoo - what if we already have everlasting life? And... we keep returning here.

So we just live. Or exist. Try to learn, as the OP mentioned. Why do we keep coming back for more?
To come back so we can turn away? Turn away from Sin? The Sin of STS? Is that the sin for an STO candidate?

Is the story/myth of the dying-man-god-on-a-stick one big gigantic STS hook?

IDK, but today is a good day for such musings. Good Friday reminds me of a visit to Hiroshima Peace Park. Words are insufficient. I feel immense awe.

Good Friday is a good day to live in the questions rather than to grab at an answer, if you ask me.
 
Whatever is/was the real truth, this is one of the most powerful, fascinating and unfathomable story/myths in human history.

Indeed; even if it is a replay of other similar myths.

I think that the readers of my book will be more than satisfied with my conclusions after I have laid out ALL the available evidence.
 
Whatever is/was the real truth, this is one of the most powerful, fascinating and unfathomable story/myths in human history.

I agree. Here is a 19th century channeling of "Imperator" done by a priest on Easter Day 1877, where the spirit tries to convey some of the wisdom in the passion story (there is a thread about the Imperator channelings here). It is still well worth pondering IMO, especially on this holiday:

So it is. The whole course of the typical life of the Pattern
Man is emblematic of the progressive development of the life
begun on earth, completed in heaven (so to use your terms),
born of self-denial, and culminating in spiritual ascension. ln
the Christ-life, as in a story, man may read the tale of the
progress of spirit from incarnation to enfranchisement. Thirty
years and more of angelic preparation fitted the Christ for His
mission: three short years sufficed to discharge so much of it
as man could bear. So man's spirit in its development pro-
gresses through the course covered by the Festivals of the-
Christian Church, from the birth of self-denial to the festival
of the completed life. Born in self-denial, progressing through
self-sacrifice, developed by perpetual struggles with the
adversaries (the antagonistic principles which must be con-
quered in daily life, in self, and in the foes), it dies at length
to the external, and rises on its Easter morn from the grave-
of matter, and lives henceforth, baptized by the outpoured
spirit of Pentecost, a new and risen life, till it ascends to the
place prepared for it by the tendency of its earth life.

This is the Spirit's progress, and it may be said to be a process
of regeneration, shortly typified by crucifixion and resurrection.
The old man dies, the new man rises from his grave. The old
man, with his lusts, is crucified; the new man is raised up to
live a spiritual and holy life. It is regeneration of spirit that
is the culmination of bodily life, and the process is crucifixion
of self, a daily death, as Paul was wont to say. In the life of
spiritual progress, there should be no stagnation, no paralysis.
It should be a growth and a daily adaptation of knowledge;
a mortification of the earthy and sensual, and a corresponding
development of the spiritual and heavenly. In other words,
it is a growth in grace, and in the knowledge of the Christ;
the purest type of human life presented to your imitation.
It is a clearing away of the material, and a development of
the spiritual a purging as by fire, the fire of a consuming
zeal; of a life-long struggle with self, and all that self includes;
of an ever widening grasp of Divine truth.

By no other means can spirit be purified. The furnace is
one of self-sacrifice: the process the same for all. Only in
some souls, wherein the Divine flame burns more brightly, the
process is rapid and concentrated; while in duller natures the
fires smoulder, and vast cycles of purgation are required.
Blessed are they who can crush out the earthy, and welcome
the fiery trial which shall purge away the dross. To such,
progress is rapid and purification sure.

Yes; the struggle is severe, and one hardly knows what to
fight against.

Begin within. The ancients were wise in their description
of the enemies. A spirit has three foes: itself; the external
world around it; and the spiritual foes that beset the upward
path. These are described as the World, the Flesh, and the
Devil.

Begin with self, the Flesh. Conquer it, so that you are no
longer slave to appetite, to passion, to ambition: so that self
can be abnegated, and the spirit can come forth from its
hermit-cell, and live and breathe and act in the free scope
of the universal brotherhood. This is the first step. Self
must be crucified, and from the grave where it lies buried will
rise the enfranchised spirit untrammelled, free from material
clogs.

This done, the soul will have no difficulty in despising the
things which are seen, and in aspiring to the eternal verities.
It will have learned that truth is to be found in them alone;
and, seeing this, it will maintain a deathless struggle with all
external and material forms, as being only adumbrations of
the true, too often deceptive and unsatisfying. Matter will
be regarded as the husk to be stripped off before the kernel
of truth can be got at. Matter will be the deceptive, fleeting
phantasm behind which is veiled the truth on which none but
the purged eye may gaze. Such a soul, so taught, will not
need to be told to avoid the external in all things, and to
penetrate through the husk to the truth that lies below. It
will have learned that the surface-meanings of things are for
the babes in spiritual knowledge, and that beneath an obvious
fact lurks a spiritual symbolic truth. Such a soul will see the
correspondence of matter and spirit, and will recognise in the
external only the rude signs by which is conveyed to the child
so much of spiritual truth as its finite mind can grasp. To it,
in veriest truth, to die has been gain. The life that it leads
is a life of the spirit; for flesh has been conquered, and the
world has ceased to charm.

But in proportion as the spiritual perceptions are quick-
ened, so do the spiritual foes come into more prominent view.
The adversaries, who are the sworn enemies of spiritual pro-
gress and enlightenment, will beset the aspirant's path, and
remain for him a ceaseless cause of conflict throughout his
career of probation. By degrees they will be vanquished by
the faithful soul that presses on, but conflict with them will
never wholly cease during the probation-life, for it is the
means whereby the higher faculties are developed, and the
steps by which entrance is won to the higher spheres of bliss.

This, briefly, is the life of the progressive spirit self - sacri-
fice, whereby self is crucified; self-denial, whereby the world
is vanquished; and spiritual conflict, whereby the adversaries
are beaten back. In it is no stagnation; even no rest; no
finality. It is a daily death, out of which springs the risen
life. It is a constant fight, out of which is won perpetual
progress. It is the quenchless struggle of the light that is
within to shine out more and more into the radiance of the
perfect day. And thus only it is that what you call heaven
is won.

Sic itur ad astra. That is very much the central idea of
Christianity, and also of Buddhism, as well as of the
Occultists. Christ's sayings teem with the notion which
animated his own life. The great difficulty is to carry
out such an abstract system into operation in the world.

Therein is the struggle, as He himself said, to be in the
world, but not of the world. The high ideal is well nigh im-
possible for those who have upon them the care of daily toil.
Hence it is that we have striven to withdraw you, so far as
we can, from the objective side of spirit-intercourse, foreseeing
that it would be hurtful to you. You must strive to rise above
the material, and to leave it behind. Such intercourse is
fitted only for those who can be secluded from the cares of
daily life.

I said long ago that I believed mediumship, if carried
out, to be incompatible with daily work in the world.
The very development of sensitiveness, which grows so
rapidly, is quite enough to unfit the medium for rude
contact with the world: or, at any rate, to encourage in
him moods, and draw round him influences, which
make him unfit for work.


To a great extent it is so: and, therefore, we have with-
drawn the more material side of mediumship from you, and
that should develop the spiritual, in which no such danger
lurks. At any rate, you may trust us to do what is wise. The
danger is when they who guide are unfit for the work. It is
then that risk becomes serious. Be content; your course is
clear. Only remember that now is the hour and power of
darkness. Be patient.

† IMPERATOR.
[Easter Day, 1877.]
 
Today is Good Friday. Jesus never existed, nor did he die for our sins - example of bad parenting if he did. Therefore, we must assume responsibility for our own sins - learning is fun! Q/Q-anon is supplementary Jesus/Moses for fundamentalist Christians. Thoughts?
I first read phrases "Historicisation of myth, mythicization of the history" in 2 decades old Laura's "Who wrote Bible" series. For some reason, it stuck in my brain.

When my kids were small ( less than 5), I have a duty (else, hell will break loose) to take to bed and make them sleep. Well, you know little "devils" won't sleep that easily. you have to tell stories, sing or what ever and they get bored with the same story pretty soon. So, you have to modify the story according to the value system you had so that they get bored and sleep. They will listen to you and even can make you feel important. That is the fun and pain of rising the children.

Imagine the stories of antiquities, that morph through ever changing political, economic, environmental conditions of human societies.
 
Q/Q-anon is supplementary Jesus/Moses for fundamentalist Christians. Thoughts?

That's probably true for some FCs, in the same way the government has become the (almost) transcendent authority for many former nominal Christians who have been disillusioned by Church scandals of recent decades. Although I'd wager that the majority of FCs in the USA are still very much in the traditional Jesus camp. Nothing can shake a belief when it based on what is felt as a direct and personal relationship with the deity, which is the case for many FCs.

There was a documentary several years ago called 'Religulous' where Bill Maher went around the bible belt confronting fundies with evidence that Jesus didn't exist etc. Pretty much all of them told him that they had a personal relationship with Jesus, so anything he or anyone else might claim to the contrary was irrelevant. They know, others are simply ignorant.
 
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I love the myth of the God/Man, Jesus. For some of my life, I believed the literal story but then moved past it and now it has become a "personal myth", so to speak. It seems that the story can be summed up as the archetypal journey a soul potentially takes in a series of incarnations, perhaps. It could be the typical; suffering, death and rebirth scenario and not necessarily in that order. Seemingly, for many of us the suffering part, especially, may take a few turns (lifetimes) before we surrender to the death and rebirth.

Furthermore, I have noticed that at different junctures in my life I will "feel" more profoundly a particular piece of the myth. For instance, right now with current events, I am feeling the Gethsemane experience where the disciples fall asleep despite Christ pleading with them to stay awake and watch. It seems to be a call for consciousness...a conflict between truth and lies, flesh and spirit. At present, it seems that much of society is asleep and no matter the warnings of disaster ahead or even the basic goodness and intelligence of those who we try to awaken...it is often impossible to budge those who are under the spell. I wrestle with myself on that score, as well. It is easy to drift into a coma and dream that I can ignore the warning signs and all will be as it was before "I knew". Sometimes, I just want to sleep and dream....to take the blue pill.

And then there is betrayal and suffering. At some point, in all the teachings, there comes a time when the soul is strong enough to stand without shrinking from suffering and death. Before reaching it, however, a sacrifice is made, or a surrender of the heart. It seems the soul must be washed in the blood of the heart before one is free enough of human emotions to reach an equilibrium that can no longer be shaken. Then, potentially, a graduation is accomplished and rebirth or resurrection is possible.

I also suspect that there are many, many layers of the myth that we play out in our growth towards raising our frequency resonance vibration and consciousness. Although it is a grand story, portions of the myth can be applied to the smallest and to the largest of life challenges, or so I think.
 
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