Canning meat/what Equipment is needed, how much canning is necessary

[Ant22]

It would not be a problem to reach the required 120-130 degrees Celsius and it seems to be a good alternative to buying a pressure cooker. But I found sources that say that dry heat (air in the oven) is different to wet heat (water) because water conducts heat better than air. And just because the temperature in the over reaches 130 degrees Celsius doesn't mean the temperature in the jar does too.

Just a thought to add to this: what if I baked/roasted the food I want to can (mostly roast meat, stews, goulash, and casseroles) in the oven at around 200 degrees for some 30 minutes or so before jarring it? I’d then wait for it to cool down and then I’d put it in jars. Next, I’d seal them either in a 100 C hot bath or in 130 C in the oven.

Would that kill off the nasty botulism spores?

I could measure the internal food temperature with a thermometer during the cooking process to make sure it’s gone over 130 degrees. There are thermometers that can be inserted into food and a tube connects the thermometer with a reading device installed outside the oven. I wouldn’t need to open the oven and risk temperature decrease to take a reading.

In theory it should do the trick of killing the spores but I wonder if there’s something about
the process that I haven’t taken into account - and that makes my theory incorrect?

 

[Woodsman]

I'm planning to buy a pressure cooker in the next week or so to remove the risk of botulism spores surviving in my jars and I have 3 questions to seasoned canners here.

1. Not all pressure cookers are created equal: Pressure cookers that heat up to the required 120-130 C are around £500. The affordable ones have a limit of 100 degrees Celsius, I take it that's not enough - even though the food is cooked under pressure? It would be great to save money if possible.

2. Oven canning as an alternative? Some time ago someone mentioned oven canning to me and I've been wondering if this could be an alternative to buying an expensive pressure cooker? Does anyone know whether it is the temperature that kills off botulism spores? Or does the pressure generated by the pot have a role to play too?

It would not be a problem to reach the required 120-130 degrees Celsius and it seems to be a good alternative to buying a pressure cooker. But I found sources that say that dry heat (air in the oven) is different to wet heat (water) because water conducts heat better than air. And just because the temperature in the over reaches 130 degrees Celsius doesn't mean the temperature in the jar does too.

Here's a section from an example article I found about pressure cooking in an oven. I don't want to blindly trust random online sources so if anyone has reasons to think those concerns aren't accurate I'd love to hear your views:




3. The this the one? To those of you who have a pressure cooker that goes over 100 degrees, does your cooker look more or less like this one? That's the one I'm considering buying and I want to make sure I'm buying the right thing:

View attachment 52425 View attachment 52426

I've had a couple, both by made by "Presto". (My first one was lost in a move.)

They work very well, can achieve the high temps needed for meat, and of all the brands, they appear to be the most affordable by quite a margin. I paid about $160 for my current one. eBay is worth checking as well as other sales sites. (Though, I would only buy new from any site. There's a silicone sealing ring in mine which I believe can decay given enough time and mistreatment.)

My current one looks like this:

It has a "jiggler weight" on top to regulate pressure, with three weighted rings you add or subtract depending on the pressure you want to maintain during a boil, (and your altitude). It's all detailed in the instruction manual, but it's very simple.

My previous one I think might have been a newer model, and it had a proper pressure gauge (which I found stressful during boils; I'd constantly be checking on the thing to turn heat up or down to keep the needle in the recommended range). The weighted ring system seems much smarter to me; it automatically adjusts based on natural feedback; if the pressure goes too high, it lets out steam, if too low, it doesn't. It's nothing more complicated than a small weighted plug over a hole. Both cookers worked fine, though.

(Just to be on the safe side, I've run all my boils 20 minutes longer than necessary.)

I got the 16 Oz one, which will fit on my stovetop and doesn't take forever to reach boiling. These things are huge, and my first one (the next size up), was unwieldy.

I went on a road trip once and took a 'pallet' of jars which I'd done a couple of years earlier and ate about half of them over the next ten days. They were either pork or beef; I can't remember, but they were surprisingly tasty. (They reminded me a bit of canned tuna but without the fishiness and that vague concern that I was ingesting heavy metals.)

As for the stove and oven idea...

Logically, if you can achieve the correct temps for long enough and avoid contamination, then I don't see why it wouldn't work, but I probably wouldn't do it. A pressure canner is purpose-built for the job and very reliable. I'd rather trust a company whose stock and trade is not poisoning people and which has a long track record of happy, not-poisoned clients. Their engineering seems first rate to me. (And I'm still-living proof.)

 

[Yupo]

Just a thought to add to this: what if I baked/roasted the food I want to can (mostly roast meat, stews, goulash, and casseroles) in the oven at around 200 degrees for some 30 minutes or so before jarring it? I’d then wait for it to cool down and then I’d put it in jars. Next, I’d seal them either in a 100 C hot bath or in 130 C in the oven.

Would that kill off the nasty botulism spores?

I could measure the internal food temperature with a thermometer during the cooking process to make sure it’s gone over 130 degrees. There are thermometers that can be inserted into food and a tube connects the thermometer with a reading device installed outside the oven. I wouldn’t need to open the oven and risk temperature decrease to take a reading.

In theory it should do the trick of killing the spores but I wonder if there’s something about
the process that I haven’t taken into account - and that makes my theory incorrect?

I think that is risky. The food has water in it, so the actual cooked temperature might only reach boiling point until fully dry. Waiting for it to cool down is risky. Jars and lids would have to be absolutely sterile (not just boiled), as would all implements used to transfer the food. Better to invest in a pressure canner. Meat is too expensive to lose.

 

[mugatea]

I'm planning to buy a pressure cooker in the next week or so to remove the risk of botulism spores surviving in my jars and I have 3 questions to seasoned canners here.

1. Not all pressure cookers are created equal: Pressure cookers that heat up to the required 120-130 C are around £500. The affordable ones have a limit of 100 degrees Celsius, I take it that's not enough - even though the food is cooked under pressure? It would be great to save money if possible.

2. Oven canning as an alternative? Some time ago someone mentioned oven canning to me and I've been wondering if this could be an alternative to buying an expensive pressure cooker? Does anyone know whether it is the temperature that kills off botulism spores? Or does the pressure generated by the pot have a role to play too?

It would not be a problem to reach the required 120-130 degrees Celsius and it seems to be a good alternative to buying a pressure cooker. But I found sources that say that dry heat (air in the oven) is different to wet heat (water) because water conducts heat better than air. And just because the temperature in the over reaches 130 degrees Celsius doesn't mean the temperature in the jar does too.

Here's a section from an example article I found about pressure cooking in an oven. I don't want to blindly trust random online sources so if anyone has reasons to think those concerns aren't accurate I'd love to hear your views:




3. The this the one? To those of you who have a pressure cooker that goes over 100 degrees, does your cooker look more or less like this one? That's the one I'm considering buying and I want to make sure I'm buying the right thing:

View attachment 52425 View attachment 52426

You mean pressure canner, yeah? Pressure cooker is a little different? What you want is a gauge from what I know as you can get it to the pressure needed to kill off everything, a pressure cooker wont have a gauge. Hence why I cant 'can' in my InstantPot.

I just checked out the pressure canner you linked too, it says it can 'can' 24 .5l jars that thing is big, it also weighs 18kg, can you cooker handle that? Tbh, it seems a bit industrial, I ordered a Presto pressure canner on ebay from the states.

An alternative would be water bathing, but the lifespan isnt as long, but i do think you get about a year, but havent looked into it too much.

 

[Eboard10]

I'm planning to buy a pressure cooker in the next week or so to remove the risk of botulism spores surviving in my jars and I have 3 questions to seasoned canners here.

You may also want to check listings on ebay where they sell new canners at reasonable prices. For example, you will find the Presto 23-quart pressure canner/cooker at $135 + shipping fees which vary depending on the country of destination, ca. $33 for UK and $68 in Poland as they are shipped from the US. The induction-compatible version is a bit more expensive. I bought mine on ebay last year and received it a couple of weeks later. If you plan on double stacking the jars, you should get an additional rack which you can find on amazon too.

 

[mugatea]

I assume a ratio of roughly 4.5lbs beef in chili to 6 pint size jars - after simmering for an hour, the chili is hot packed into the jars and pressure canned at 11-15 lbs pressure for 75 minutes. I usually replace the butter with either tallow or lard. Recommend knocking out 12 pint size cans at a time.

So how is fat when canning? Can it not lubricate the seal between dics and jar and ruin a good seal or is that not a prob? I'm unsure about fat and canning, on youtube everyone gets rid of fat, but is that for 'health' or preservation? They don't say much about why.

 

[Alana]

So how is fat when canning? Can it not lubricate the seal between dics and jar and ruin a good seal or is that not a prob? I'm unsure about fat and canning, on youtube everyone gets rid of fat, but is that for 'health' or preservation? They don't say much about why.

All our canning has included fat or it has been just fat canning (lard). There was never a problem with sealing because before we add the sealing top we wipe the "lips" of the jar with vinegar. Just add a bit of vinegar to a piece of paper towel and wipe well all around the top of the jar where the sealing will take place.

Not long ago people used to keep their meats in fat for preservation. No canning or sealing, just meat in fat. The youtubers you watched are probably brainwashed by the "fat is bad" propaganda or they don't know how to clean their jars to seal them properly if greased.

 

[Ant22]

I've had a couple, both by made by "Presto". (My first one was lost in a move.)

They work very well, can achieve the high temps needed for meat, and of all the brands, they appear to be the most affordable by quite a margin. I paid about $160 for my current one. eBay is worth checking as well as other sales sites. (Though, I would only buy new from any site. There's a silicone sealing ring in mine which I believe can decay given enough time and mistreatment.)

I think that is risky. The food has water in it, so the actual cooked temperature might only reach boiling point until fully dry. Waiting for it to cool down is risky. Jars and lids would have to be absolutely sterile (not just boiled), as would all implements used to transfer the food. Better to invest in a pressure canner. Meat is too expensive to lose.

You mean pressure canner, yeah? Pressure cooker is a little different? What you want is a gauge from what I know as you can get it to the pressure needed to kill off everything, a pressure cooker wont have a gauge. Hence why I cant 'can' in my InstantPot.

I just checked out the pressure canner you linked too, it says it can 'can' 24 .5l jars that thing is big, it also weighs 18kg, can you cooker handle that? Tbh, it seems a bit industrial, I ordered a Presto pressure canner on ebay from the states.

An alternative would be water bathing, but the lifespan isnt as long, but i do think you get about a year, but havent looked into it too much.

Thank you everyone! I think you guys are right that although in theory oven canning should work, in practice it may not. I don't want to take that risk. I read about botulism and although it's extremely rare (145 a year in the US, a population of 330 million) and apparently only 30% of cases are from adult food consumption, I figured that those stats are among a population that doesn't do a lot of home canning. It's likely I will live off my canned food, which will increase those statistics. And given how quickly the quality and availability of medical services has been deteriorating it's massively important to reduce the risk of needing urgent help.

mugatea, you're right, that canner was quite hardcore and of industrial size. And much more expensive that the options found on American eBay.

You may also want to check listings on ebay where they sell new canners at reasonable prices. For example, you will find the Presto 23-quart pressure canner/cooker at $135 + shipping fees which vary depending on the country of destination, ca. $33 for UK and $68 in Poland as they are shipped from the US. The induction-compatible version is a bit more expensive. I bought mine on ebay last year and received it a couple of weeks later. If you plan on double stacking the jars, you should get an additional rack which you can find on amazon too.

Thank you for finding those options for me Ebaord10. I decided to go for the induction compatible version and I have now purchased it. It will arrive in Poland shortly after Christmas. We use a gas stove but I figured that there may come a time when I will need the induction compatibility feature so I might as well pay that little extra. I just called eBay and I can get it shipped from the US to Poland using my UK eBay account. The money back protection will still apply if anything goes wrong with the delivery.

Given that we've done quite a bit of canning already using the hot bath method I guess I'll give those jars a round in the canner once it arrives. I wouldn't like all that work going to waste. Most of my supplies are store bought products because those can be purchased at a very good price in Poland so I guess they're canned properly.

 

[Vinícius]

I'm planning to buy a pressure cooker in the next week or so to remove the risk of botulism spores surviving in my jars and I have 3 questions to seasoned canners here.

1. Not all pressure cookers are created equal: Pressure cookers that heat up to the required 120-130 C are around £500. The affordable ones have a limit of 100 degrees Celsius, I take it that's not enough - even though the food is cooked under pressure? It would be great to save money if possible.

2. Oven canning as an alternative? Some time ago someone mentioned oven canning to me and I've been wondering if this could be an alternative to buying an expensive pressure cooker? Does anyone know whether it is the temperature that kills off botulism spores? Or does the pressure generated by the pot have a role to play too?

It would not be a problem to reach the required 120-130 degrees Celsius and it seems to be a good alternative to buying a pressure cooker. But I found sources that say that dry heat (air in the oven) is different to wet heat (water) because water conducts heat better than air. And just because the temperature in the over reaches 130 degrees Celsius doesn't mean the temperature in the jar does too.

Here's a section from an example article I found about pressure cooking in an oven. I don't want to blindly trust random online sources so if anyone has reasons to think those concerns aren't accurate I'd love to hear your views:




3. The this the one? To those of you who have a pressure cooker that goes over 100 degrees, does your cooker look more or less like this one? That's the one I'm considering buying and I want to make sure I'm buying the right thing:

View attachment 52425 View attachment 52426

I'd just get a regular Presto PC with gauge on ebay/amazon, put the meat on quart/pint jars and hold it for 90min @15psi

if yours has no gauge then let it run full steam before putting the weight on(can take a while in large PCs)

no need to worry about temperature as the water boiling point increases with pressure:

 

[Eboard10]

Thank you for finding those options for me Ebaord10. I decided to go for the induction compatible version and I have now purchased it. It will arrive in Poland shortly after Christmas. We use a gas stove but I figured that there may come a time when I will need the induction compatibility feature so I might as well pay that little extra. I just called eBay and I can get it shipped from the US to Poland using my UK eBay account. The money back protection will still apply if anything goes wrong with the delivery.

Glad it was of help. I also bought that one as I have an induction cooktop and it works fine on other stoves.

Given that we've done quite a bit of canning already using the hot bath method I guess I'll give those jars a round in the canner once it arrives. I wouldn't like all that work going to waste. Most of my supplies are store bought products because those can be purchased at a very good price in Poland so I guess they're canned properly.

What I have read is that they can last for several years past their best-by dates. The important thing is to store them in a cool and dark place as it can affect the quality of the food over time. I recently had some pickled eggs that were pressure canned 9 years ago and they tasted just fine.

Don't know much about re-canning foods. I guess it's safe but some foods may end up turning to mush as you are basically cooking them twice for an extended time. Here's an article about it: Recanning food: Is it safe? I also found this thread on another forum with some useful comments.

 

[othree]

When I can meat in the pressure cooker, there is often a lot of fat that escapes from the jars. It then swims in the water and sticks to the jars. Clearly, the fat escaped from the jars during the cooking process, so can I assume that lids are not sealed properly, since there must be residues of fat underneath them? When the jars cool off, there is proper vacuum and when I open them, there is a "popping" sound, but maybe they will not last as long as jars from which no fat escaped? Or is a bit of escaped fat / food normal?

 

[herondancer]

Or is a bit of escaped fat / food normal?

Ideally, there should be no escaped material in the canning process to interfere with the seal. The fear around fat is that the rubber seal might degrade faster in the presence of oils. That said, I have jars that were canned at least six years ago, some of which certainly did overflow, and they are still well sealed.

It's tricky to judge how much fat will render from the beef or pork being canned. Poultry doesn't seem to be as much of an issue, unless you are doing duck or goose meat. If the meat is particularly fatty, I've been trimming the fat off before cutting the meat cubes. Then I cut up the fat into smaller cubes and divide them evenly between all the jars in the batch. That seems to work mostly ok in terms of avoiding overflow.

We just did up a bunch of turkey cuts that were on sale after Thanksgiving. Because it's such a lean meat we put about an inch or so of bacon fat into the jars first before packing in the breasts, thighs etc. When the jars cooled that inch made a nice seal on top of the meat, with luscious turkey broth underneath. Should make great sandwiches and soup!

You can also use lard or tallow, but we have a LOT of bacon fat around, so we figured it would add some flavour.

 

[Goemon_]

3. The this the one? To those of you who have a pressure cooker that goes over 100 degrees, does your cooker look more or less like this one? That's the one I'm considering buying and I want to make sure I'm buying the right thing:

I have the All-American 41 quart: Link
I sterilise seventeen one-litre jars at a time.

 

[mugatea]

Anyone in the UK or even Europe know where you can get cheap jars? So far Amazon sell 12x1litre for £33. Can't seem to beat that. My canner is now in the UK sorting office - whoop whoop - not long now! Watched an interesting video today about canning sausages.

 

[Ant22]

Anyone in the UK or even Europe know where you can get cheap jars? So far Amazon sell 12x1litre for £33. Can't seem to beat that. (…)

The price is about the same as what I've been finding on Amazon. Here are a few other options that are a bit cheaper per jar:

1062ml Glass Jar & Twist Off Lid - Ampulla LTD - 0161 367 1414

This 1062ml Glass Jar & Twist Off Lid can be purchased with no minimum order value or in bulk for large discounts. Order now & save!

www.ampulla.co.uk

720 ml preserving jar, closure: twist off (TO 82) | 720 | Clear | 100012290

The 720ml of canned glass is suitable for canned goods.

www.world-of-bottles.co.uk

My issue with store bought jars is that pretty much all of the ones I’ve found don’t have a popping lid, i.e. there is no ‘click’ when the jar is opened for the first time. Neither there is any noticeable difference between a sealed jar and one they didn’t close properly. So far I haven’t been able to find the kind of jars that store bought food comes in, which is those with a lid that gets indented when the jar seals.

I don’t know if it helps you at all but what I do is recycle jars I bought store ready food in. My mom has been recycling jars like that ever since I remember and canning was something we always did a lot of. So far this has been quite effective.

There’s an app called Olio where people post free food and household stuff to give away for free. I use it a lot myself. I just did a quick search for empty jars in my local area and I’ve found quite a few listings. You can also write a ‘wanted’ listing. I don’t know how popular it is outside London. I guess Freecycle may be with checking out too.

You’d need to check each jar thoroughly to make sure there are no dents around the area that touches the glass to make sure they will seal though.