addiction to cocoa

Xlyja :

My diet consists of meat stock broth (mixed with bone broth) daily about 500ml, 4 strips of bacon, 1 - 2 eggs, and usually something like broccoli or asparagus, sometimes tomato. The odd time for dinner ill have a pork chop or chicken leg or two. The coffee cream I use is 10% m.f. , ingredients list : milk, cream, mono and diglycerides, disodium phosphate, sodium citrate, carrageenan.

Are any of these ingredients bad for the body ? I have really researched them a whole lot yet, I have spending a lot of time transitioning out of old foods I used to eat and focusing on avoiding the some of the bad stuff in food, like hidden forms of MSG for example, and what you mentioned. It took me a while, eventually settled on what I have just mentioned - I don't treally eat anything else other than few green veggies.

It might be worth mentioning I caught a really nasty cold / flu with strange onset of symptoms last sunday. It didn't follow the usual pattern of getting sick, in the past I would always get all of the symptoms hit me all at once. This time, I got one symptom transition to another since sunday.

Mildain said:

The coffee cream I use is 10% m.f. , ingredients list : milk, cream, mono and diglycerides, disodium phosphate, sodium citrate, carrageenan.

Click to expand...

Milk means casein, which is a problem: it's very similar to gluten, and they can have practically the same effects on the body.

Aiming said:

_http://www.highonhealth.org/is-cacao-good-or-bad/http://www.highonhealth.org/is-cacao-good-or-bad/
I’ve read in many resources online that if you eat a minimum of 40 cacao beans you can start to hallucinate.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

If I remember correctly cacao was used as a hallucinogen or psychoactive drug in ancient cultures. As was coffee - reserved for the priests, of course, in religious ritual and small doses.

M.T.

Mildain said:

Xlyja :

My diet consists of meat stock broth (mixed with bone broth) daily about 500ml, 4 strips of bacon, 1 - 2 eggs, and usually something like broccoli or asparagus, sometimes tomato. The odd time for dinner ill have a pork chop or chicken leg or two. The coffee cream I use is 10% m.f. , ingredients list : milk, cream, mono and diglycerides, disodium phosphate, sodium citrate, carrageenan.

Are any of these ingredients bad for the body ? I have really researched them a whole lot yet, I have spending a lot of time transitioning out of old foods I used to eat and focusing on avoiding the some of the bad stuff in food, like hidden forms of MSG for example, and what you mentioned. It took me a while, eventually settled on what I have just mentioned - I don't treally eat anything else other than few green veggies.

It might be worth mentioning I caught a really nasty cold / flu with strange onset of symptoms last sunday. It didn't follow the usual pattern of getting sick, in the past I would always get all of the symptoms hit me all at once. This time, I got one symptom transition to another since sunday.

Click to expand...

Yep, as Psalehesost said, milk and cream are problematic because of the casein, even in very small amounts. A good article on this is Why Milk Is So Evil (http://www.sott.net/article/225467-Why-Milk-Is-So-Evil). Also, dairy contains lectins, which, to oversimplify a bit, are proteins that can bind to some types of sugar molecules on your cells and thus trigger autoimmune responses (see here for many articles on this: http://www.sott.net/article/261859-Lectins-the-paleo-diet). There are also a lot of lectins in eggs and nightshades, so you'll want to be sure your body doesn't have a problem with them after doing an elimination test.

Other than that, your diet sounds very good, and remember that it may take a year or so for your body to repair any damage from grains, dairy, and sugar. Also, some people get flu symptoms when changing their diet, or when eating a food they can't tolerate, but in my experience it usually doesn't last as long as an actual cold. Do you still feel sick? About a year ago I caught a cold like that too (started as a sore throat, then coughing all day, then congestion, etc). Taking zinc gluconate helped me with my symptoms, but it still took time and plenty of bone broth to get over it. Ginger is also good if you can tolerate it. I've managed not to catch anything the past semester at college, despite being around too many sniffling people, since I started smoking organic roll-your-own tobacco, after reading about its antimicrobial properties (http://www.sott.net/article/234667-Pestilence-the-Great-Plague-and-the-Tobacco-Cure), so that may also be something to consider if you get sick regularly.

Aiming said:

When I found that it's better for me to avoid cocoa or at least have it only rarely, I found the following article on the web. Note that it's written by a raw food promoter and there aren't any studies included, but what she's describing below matches with the symptoms I found in myself. I currently think that some people might just be more sensitive, or perhaps it's an issue of the amount one consumes, or the general health condition, or how prone one is to addictive behaviour.

Click to expand...

So, after stopping eating store bought chocolate for a couple of months, I decided to try out homemade chocolate (last time I did so was pre-paleo/keto diet). I bought a pack of cocoa butter (I already had the cocoa powder), and I used xylitol as a sweetener. It had a nice consistency and hardened in a short time in the fridge, all went well. Then I ate it... and the effect it had on me was horrible. The most noticeable one was an increase in my heartbeat. I thought, okay, maybe I just put in too much xylitol (i.e. carbs), so once my body was feeling okay again, I made a next batch with just a little xylitol, a teeny tiny bit. Let it cool off, and yep... same heartbeat problem. It feels really wrong. So yea homemade chocolate is out for me as well, I think the culprit is the cocoa powder. From what I've read I think it's the theobromine.

It's bone broth, meat, and fatbomb for me from now on, no more chocolate experimenting

Oxajil said:

So, after stopping eating store bought chocolate for a couple of months, I decided to try out homemade chocolate (last time I did so was pre-paleo/keto diet). I bought a pack of cocoa butter (I already had the cocoa powder), and I used xylitol as a sweetener. It had a nice consistency and hardened in a short time in the fridge, all went well. Then I ate it... and the effect it had on me was horrible. The most noticeable one was an increase in my heartbeat. I thought, okay, maybe I just put in too much xylitol (i.e. carbs), so once my body was feeling okay again, I made a next batch with just a little xylitol, a teeny tiny bit. Let it cool off, and yep... same heartbeat problem. It feels really wrong. So yea homemade chocolate is out for me as well, I think the culprit is the cocoa powder. From what I've read I think it's the theobromine.

It's bone broth, meat, and fatbomb for me from now on, no more chocolate experimenting

Click to expand...

Could the increased heart rate have been due to the caffeine in the cocoa? There's approximately 20 grams of caffeine in 100 grams of milk chocolate and about 43 grams in 100 grams of dark chocolate.

1984 said:

Could the increased heart rate have been due to the caffeine in the cocoa? There's approximately 20 grams of caffeine in 100 grams of milk chocolate and about 43 grams in 100 grams of dark chocolate.

Click to expand...

This should be x milligrams of caffeine in y grams of chocolate ;)

I see google gives the same number, though "dark chocolate" could mean as little as 40% (I've seen even less still labeled "dark") According to Wolfram Alpha, though, it's 34mg/43g("1 bar", apparently) for 70-85% dark. That makes it ~79mg/100g, bearing in mind darker chocolates are preferred for lower sugar. To put it into perspective, one shot of espresso has 30-50mg of caffeine, so those that caffeine sensitive, especially, might want to keep these approximations in mind when using dark chocolate in recipes.

Yes, it might've been the caffeine. I don't do that well on black/green tea either, but the side-effects from those are not that bad (a headache). This was really bad, perhaps it's the combination of theobromine and caffeine. They say that these are stimulants and can create mental clarity etc., but in my case it was pretty much straight to an increased heart rate. Either way, a no go for me. I don't mind though, I was able to not eat any chocolate for about 2 years long, so I think I can do that again, as long as I keep my magnesium levels optimal.

Oxajil said:

The most noticeable one was an increase in my heartbeat.

Click to expand...

I had exactly the same reaction! However, I do not have any problems with coffee (I do drink the occasional cup, maybe twice a week).

Maybe there is something else in the cocoa? I once read that cocoa was used as a "drug" by Mayan or Aztec priests and therefore not available for common people. It seems there is a lot of stuff in chocolate:

The Chemistry of Chocolate

There's actually more than one compound found in chocolate that could potentially make a person high. For starters, the most widely used psychoactive drug in the world is found in chocolate [source: Fackelmann]. The compound 1,3,7-trimethylxanthine -- better known as caffeine -- occurs naturally. It produces a stimulating physiological effect by exciting the central nervous system, which, in turn, increases heart rate and contracts muscles. It's a lot like the fight-or-flight response. Caffeine acts on dopamine and adenosine receptors in the brain, which then release their respective pleasure-producing chemicals.

A compound that's closely related to the active ingredient in marijuana (tetrahydrocannabinol-9) is also found in chocolate. Fatty acids called cannabinoids hit the CB1 and CB2 receptors found most predominantly in the frontal cortex and the parts of the brain responsible for motor function and memory. When cannabinoids hit these receptors, a person starts to feel intoxicated and relaxed as a result [source: Medscape].

As if that one-two punch of psychoactive stimulant and depressant weren't enough, chocolate also packs another surprise in its glove for people who eat it. Phenylethylamine is often called the "love drug," since it releases the same chemicals that are introduced into the human body when love comes to call [source: Millward]. The compound produces a similar effect to the one produced by amphetamines, and is classified as a hallucinogen. It also is aces ate releasing the pleasure-producing chemicals dopamine and serotonin. The combination produces an exciting high, much like the one generated by the designer drug ecstasy [source: Hanson, et al].

Click to expand...

M.T.

Oxajil said:

Yes, it might've been the caffeine. I don't do that well on black/green tea either, but the side-effects from those are not that bad (a headache). This was really bad, perhaps it's the combination of theobromine and caffeine. They say that these are stimulants and can create mental clarity etc., but in my case it was pretty much straight to an increased heart rate. Either way, a no go for me. I don't mind though, I was able to not eat any chocolate for about 2 years long, so I think I can do that again, as long as I keep my magnesium levels optimal.

Click to expand...

It was probably the theobromine, which has some of the same properties as caffeine. This does increase the heart rate, but at the same time it dilates the blood vessels and actually helps with high blood pressure.

Here's a bit about theobromine itself:

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine

In modern medicine, theobromine is used as a vasodilator (a blood vessel widener), a diuretic (urination aid), and heart stimulant.[1]

Theobromine increases urine production. Because of this diuretic effect, and its ability to dilate blood vessels, theobromine has been used to treat high blood pressure.[20] The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition notes that historic use of theobromine as a treatment for other circulatory problems including arteriosclerosis, certain vascular diseases, angina pectoris, and hypertension should be considered in future studies.

Click to expand...

So even though it increases heart rate, it also opens up the blood vessels so the increase in blood is easily moved through the veins.

If this is the only effect it has on you, it may not be that bad. However, it's up to you whether to eat it or not for any reason. I know that once I decided to quit the chocolate, I lost quite a bit of weight. It was the last of the carbs to go.


Just want to add that it is said that theobromine is what causes addiction to chocolate so there is that.

Saieden said:

1984 said:

Could the increased heart rate have been due to the caffeine in the cocoa? There's approximately 20 grams of caffeine in 100 grams of milk chocolate and about 43 grams in 100 grams of dark chocolate.

Click to expand...

This should be x milligrams of caffeine in y grams of chocolate ;)

I see google gives the same number, though "dark chocolate" could mean as little as 40% (I've seen even less still labeled "dark") According to Wolfram Alpha, though, it's 34mg/43g("1 bar", apparently) for 70-85% dark. That makes it ~79mg/100g, bearing in mind darker chocolates are preferred for lower sugar. To put it into perspective, one shot of espresso has 30-50mg of caffeine, so those that caffeine sensitive, especially, might want to keep these approximations in mind when using dark chocolate in recipes.

Click to expand...

Thank you, Saieden for the correction. I shouldn't have relied on google :)

I use low carb cocoa (8%), coconut oil, butter and stevia and make chocolate. Just cooking a minute, then cooling down in the fridge. It's a real fat bomb. :)

Minas Tirith said:

Oxajil said:

The most noticeable one was an increase in my heartbeat.

Click to expand...

I had exactly the same reaction!

Click to expand...

Yes, I also had this often and it used to get triggered when there was too much cocoa powder in the chocolate. I also think that it's probably the caffeine. My system was thrown into a euphoria-like state and there was a level of energy and concentration available that far exceeded my every day level of energy - and inevitably it was followed by its exact opposite. I think what also may be playing a role is that the caffeine would trigger the release of insulin, which would be a problem for people with previous or on-going insulin-resistance. Next to contributing to adrenal fatigue via these ups and downs in energy.

Then, there's also the fact about cocoa's contamination with heavy metals, depending on where it's grown. I've read somewhere that cocoa from the Americas has higher content of heavy metals and cocoa from Africa would be the better choice in that regard. And if it's not organic, then it'd also have a higher content of pesticides.

Minas Tirith said:

Maybe there is something else in the cocoa? I once read that cocoa was used as a "drug" by Mayan or Aztec priests and therefore not available for common people. It seems there is a lot of stuff in chocolate:

The Chemistry of Chocolate

There's actually more than one compound found in chocolate that could potentially make a person high. For starters, the most widely used psychoactive drug in the world is found in chocolate [source: Fackelmann]. The compound 1,3,7-trimethylxanthine -- better known as caffeine -- occurs naturally. It produces a stimulating physiological effect by exciting the central nervous system, which, in turn, increases heart rate and contracts muscles. It's a lot like the fight-or-flight response. Caffeine acts on dopamine and adenosine receptors in the brain, which then release their respective pleasure-producing chemicals.

A compound that's closely related to the active ingredient in marijuana (tetrahydrocannabinol-9) is also found in chocolate. Fatty acids called cannabinoids hit the CB1 and CB2 receptors found most predominantly in the frontal cortex and the parts of the brain responsible for motor function and memory. When cannabinoids hit these receptors, a person starts to feel intoxicated and relaxed as a result [source: Medscape].

As if that one-two punch of psychoactive stimulant and depressant weren't enough, chocolate also packs another surprise in its glove for people who eat it. Phenylethylamine is often called the "love drug," since it releases the same chemicals that are introduced into the human body when love comes to call [source: Millward]. The compound produces a similar effect to the one produced by amphetamines, and is classified as a hallucinogen. It also is aces ate releasing the pleasure-producing chemicals dopamine and serotonin. The combination produces an exciting high, much like the one generated by the designer drug ecstasy [source: Hanson, et al].

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this excerpt, since for some time I'd been looking specifically for something on its drug-like, hallucinogenic properties, because last spring/summer that was what seemed to be often triggered for me: visions, unusual impressions, 'sightings', etc. Yet there were other things going on in my life during that time, so it might've just been about being susceptible to it at that time.

Is it actually coffee or caffeine which triggers insulin response? In one of the sessions C's recommended guarana powder and it actually contains a lot of caffeine.

Nienna said:

So even though it increases heart rate, it also opens up the blood vessels so the increase in blood is easily moved through the veins.

If this is the only effect it has on you, it may not be that bad. However, it's up to you whether to eat it or not for any reason. I know that once I decided to quit the chocolate, I lost quite a bit of weight. It was the last of the carbs to go.

Just want to add that it is said that theobromine is what causes addiction to chocolate so there is that.

Click to expand...

After some more experimentation, I'm certain that it is something in the cocoa that triggers a feeling of anxiety of the body. I have noticed that the higher the cocoa%, the worse the effects. It's a very strange feeling, and it just doesn't feel right! I guess that everyone has their specific sensitivities, mine is unfortunately chocolate. So I have given it up entirely. I hope to become a dedicate member of the no-chocolate club (i.e. with no cheating)!