Cyre2067
The Living Force
Just saw this last night and wrote up a review for my blog. Figured I'd post it here for anyone who was interested and to open discussion
Black Swan
- Thread starter Cyre2067
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knowledge_of_self
The Living Force
Yeah this looks really good. I love both Mila Kunis and Natalie Portman so I'll be checking this one out for sure. I also used to dance ballet but stopped once things were starting to get really serious due to the surrounding energies and the darkness of the industry itself. I didn't have a good experience with it-- so I'm looking forward to this movie.
Tigersoap
The Living Force
Puck said:I tried not to put any plot spoilers in there, if it wasn't in the trailer or obvious after the first 20 minutes of the movie I left it out.
Should I drop a spoiler warning?
I really did not read your review because I don't want to have an idea of the story beforehand :)
Sorry for the confusion !!
Saw this one last night. Definitely a well-made film, but one of those deep, psychological thrillers that sends you for loops throughout, possibly due to the movie being so abstract in nature.
That really stuck out. Just the complete narcissistic tendencies of the characters, albeit in different ways. Even Nina is shown to be like that in her quest for perfection.
I was wondering about that myself after seeing the movie. Because, at least through the films eyes, you get a real sense of how the ballet industry is. All, beautiful, young women battling for supremacy to be the centre starlet of attraction.
SEMI SPOILER***
Particularly, the mother-daughter relationship reminded me of the story of Gypsy in Unholy Hungers:
Puck said:
That really stuck out. Just the complete narcissistic tendencies of the characters, albeit in different ways. Even Nina is shown to be like that in her quest for perfection.
Deedlet said:
I was wondering about that myself after seeing the movie. Because, at least through the films eyes, you get a real sense of how the ballet industry is. All, beautiful, young women battling for supremacy to be the centre starlet of attraction.
SEMI SPOILER***
Particularly, the mother-daughter relationship reminded me of the story of Gypsy in Unholy Hungers:
Mrs.Tigersoap
The Living Force
IMO Aronofski's movies are about obsession. An obsession that drives to madness and despair. In Pi, Requiem for a dream, The Fountain, The Wrestler or Black Swan, the protagonists are obsessed with something, something life changing and they usually cannot get it (or in the case of Black Swan, get it and lose themselves in the process). I think that his movies are ultimately about the usurpation of the sexual centre 
Portman is great, as usual and so is Vincent Cassel. As Puck was saying, the movie is painful to watch and it left me with a nauseous feeling, maybe as if I had witnessed true madness. I had trouble shaking this nauseous impression afterwards.
Exactly. This relationship is really interesting to observe.
Portman is great, as usual and so is Vincent Cassel. As Puck was saying, the movie is painful to watch and it left me with a nauseous feeling, maybe as if I had witnessed true madness. I had trouble shaking this nauseous impression afterwards.
DanielS said:
Exactly. This relationship is really interesting to observe.
Tigersoap
The Living Force
I was thinking about how Aronofsky, through his movies, is talking how the search for "perfection", in it's many forms will leads to madness,death or resurrection (?) for example.
I don't know if Aronofsky is linking genius to madness as it was shown in "PI" but there is a central core to his movies that makes me wonder what he really thinks.
Edit : Thinking of his movies there are also tales of Hubris and fall from fame osit.
I'll just lay my few thoughts but I spoil the movie if you haven't seen it.
In Black Swan, Nina Sayers (N.Portman) is sacrificing her life, denying herself even in her intimate life to please her mother and become the new shining star of the Swan lake.
From what I know the rigors and harsh reality of ballet dancing are shown here, I remember watching a documentary about an old Russian lady who was a well known ballet professor who was abusing verbally her students in trying to make them the best dancers.
The stark contrast between the reality (pushing your body to the limit, the sacrifice, reharsing the same thing over and over again) and the illusion of the spectacle (the lightness, the grace, the make-believe...) is quite present.
All the sexual frustration becomes the trigger for Nina's plunge into schizophrenia (?)
She probably kills or maims Beth Macintyre (Winona Ryder) herself because she is the reminder that all things must pass, even fame.
She prefers to die than to displease her mother.
She prefers to die than to suffer the hard fall from this pefect moment that is the apex of all her privations and suffering.
Is it a mysogynistic movie at its core ?
_http://tabularasae.tumblr.com/post/2531361633/the-sexism-of-black-swan
_http://www.alternet.org/story/149225/swanday_bloody_swanday%3A_darren_aronofsky's_sadistic,_misogynistic_new_film_?page=1
I tend to think so but it also shows how narcissistic behavior can lead to destruction.
Is it again some sort of vectoring of thoughts, that there is no art or perfection without madness and death ? Seems like it.
I don't know if Aronofsky is linking genius to madness as it was shown in "PI" but there is a central core to his movies that makes me wonder what he really thinks.
Edit : Thinking of his movies there are also tales of Hubris and fall from fame osit.
I'll just lay my few thoughts but I spoil the movie if you haven't seen it.
In Black Swan, Nina Sayers (N.Portman) is sacrificing her life, denying herself even in her intimate life to please her mother and become the new shining star of the Swan lake.
From what I know the rigors and harsh reality of ballet dancing are shown here, I remember watching a documentary about an old Russian lady who was a well known ballet professor who was abusing verbally her students in trying to make them the best dancers.
The stark contrast between the reality (pushing your body to the limit, the sacrifice, reharsing the same thing over and over again) and the illusion of the spectacle (the lightness, the grace, the make-believe...) is quite present.
All the sexual frustration becomes the trigger for Nina's plunge into schizophrenia (?)
She probably kills or maims Beth Macintyre (Winona Ryder) herself because she is the reminder that all things must pass, even fame.
She prefers to die than to displease her mother.
She prefers to die than to suffer the hard fall from this pefect moment that is the apex of all her privations and suffering.
Is it a mysogynistic movie at its core ?
_http://tabularasae.tumblr.com/post/2531361633/the-sexism-of-black-swan
_http://www.alternet.org/story/149225/swanday_bloody_swanday%3A_darren_aronofsky's_sadistic,_misogynistic_new_film_?page=1
I tend to think so but it also shows how narcissistic behavior can lead to destruction.
Is it again some sort of vectoring of thoughts, that there is no art or perfection without madness and death ? Seems like it.
luke wilson
The Living Force
Just seen this movie and I am in shock. I dont know what I just saw.
Natalie Portman should win an oscar for her performance. She was beyond amazing...
I dont know what to think about it.
Nina(Natalie Portman) from the very beginning seemed to be a higly sensitive person. To me it seems ballet was her escape from reality. Everyone around her seemed to abuse her and she didnt know what to do. The more she was abused, the more she was pushed, the deeper she sank into obsessing for this perfection. To me it appeared the perfection was her escape, her only chance to touch something divine, something unadulterated, atleast in her eyes. After that, there is nothing else to live for. Her mother was never there for her. Her teacher was a grade A narcissist plus a sexual predator and her peers were dangerously competitive and downright mean. Where to escape? What to do?
I couldnt believe the emotions on her face. They were sooooo real. The music, everything about this movie, pure madness. Insanity. Tragedy. OSCAR.
It is interesting how in the end, in her drive, in her push, she became her tormenters and tormented herself. At the end of the day, she was just a nice sensitive girl who wanted to do ballet, but she lived in a dark world. The human condition is something to behold. There is abit of her in everyone..
{SPOILER ALERT!}
The whole black swan, white swan thing was again, something else. At the end when she made her final performance, I felt she had truly embodied the black swan, before she died, she reverted back to herself, said she was perfect for having touched the impossible, then died. Her single victory in her life in her fight against the vast darkness that surrounded her. That is how I see this movie. Amazing, never been so captivated by a performance before. Tragedy, why would a person do this to themselves? Ahh but that is it, we are trapped, the door is there, our escape door but we just cant walk through it, something stops us from doing it, she could have quit ballet and not fallen victim to her own self but instead she/we drive ourselves to pure madness and in the end, we get engulfed by the darkness or maybe, if the movie is to be believed, we get to touch the divine.
Natalie Portman should win an oscar for her performance. She was beyond amazing...
I dont know what to think about it.
Nina(Natalie Portman) from the very beginning seemed to be a higly sensitive person. To me it seems ballet was her escape from reality. Everyone around her seemed to abuse her and she didnt know what to do. The more she was abused, the more she was pushed, the deeper she sank into obsessing for this perfection. To me it appeared the perfection was her escape, her only chance to touch something divine, something unadulterated, atleast in her eyes. After that, there is nothing else to live for. Her mother was never there for her. Her teacher was a grade A narcissist plus a sexual predator and her peers were dangerously competitive and downright mean. Where to escape? What to do?
I couldnt believe the emotions on her face. They were sooooo real. The music, everything about this movie, pure madness. Insanity. Tragedy. OSCAR.
It is interesting how in the end, in her drive, in her push, she became her tormenters and tormented herself. At the end of the day, she was just a nice sensitive girl who wanted to do ballet, but she lived in a dark world. The human condition is something to behold. There is abit of her in everyone..
{SPOILER ALERT!}
The whole black swan, white swan thing was again, something else. At the end when she made her final performance, I felt she had truly embodied the black swan, before she died, she reverted back to herself, said she was perfect for having touched the impossible, then died. Her single victory in her life in her fight against the vast darkness that surrounded her. That is how I see this movie. Amazing, never been so captivated by a performance before. Tragedy, why would a person do this to themselves? Ahh but that is it, we are trapped, the door is there, our escape door but we just cant walk through it, something stops us from doing it, she could have quit ballet and not fallen victim to her own self but instead she/we drive ourselves to pure madness and in the end, we get engulfed by the darkness or maybe, if the movie is to be believed, we get to touch the divine.
Hey Luke. I added a spoiler alert in your post, because you are giving the end away in your last paragraph ;)
I watched the movie myself a while ago, and i agree that the casting was excellent and Portman deserving of that Oscar. The story was painful to watch unfold: indeed, a trapped sensitive girl in a world where everyone wanted something from her, they wanted her to be something she wasn't, no one really caring about Her at all. Though this says more about me than the movie, i did feel a sort of catharsis at the end of the movie. That now she is free. It was after i got home, swan lake music still playing in my head (one of the best music pieces ever imo) that i was able to review the movie in my head and think of all the different ways she could have gone to win her freedom. But perhaps they wouldn't have made for a Hollywood movie
I watched the movie myself a while ago, and i agree that the casting was excellent and Portman deserving of that Oscar. The story was painful to watch unfold: indeed, a trapped sensitive girl in a world where everyone wanted something from her, they wanted her to be something she wasn't, no one really caring about Her at all. Though this says more about me than the movie, i did feel a sort of catharsis at the end of the movie. That now she is free. It was after i got home, swan lake music still playing in my head (one of the best music pieces ever imo) that i was able to review the movie in my head and think of all the different ways she could have gone to win her freedom. But perhaps they wouldn't have made for a Hollywood movie
luke wilson
The Living Force
Alana said:
Thanks for that, dont want to spoil the experience for anyone else that might want to watch this movie.
Alana said:
I think you might be right, if she somehow found a way to free herself, the 'shock' factor would have been diluted and maybe made it into less of a Hollywood movie. I think the director/writers wanted the darkness, the insanity and the madness to reign supreme without being overthrown by saneness and light.
