NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

Thank you to everyone for the information in this thread! I can now make a more informed choice of practitioners. I have found a practitioner who uses the NeurOptimal neurofeedback system close to where I live and as soon as my new work schedule is worked out will make an appointment to start sessions, hopefully next week.

Prodigal Son said:

Laura said:

I had a different approach to the sessions: I deliberately tried to think about upsetting things so as to help my brain learn to deal with it and not tip me over the edge into the pit. Not much point in meditating to prove how smooth your brain is when you are trying to train it to be that way under stress!!!

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I agree that this is the way to move forward with these sessions, after all, we are seeking to move forward, to be who we really can be.

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I usually watch creepy stuff during the NF session. Lizards, aliens, predatory stuff. All very gory and detailed. I think I'll choose something slightly more neutral for the NeurOptimal modality though.

Today I had my 5th targeted NF session, working on CZ (central midline) for SMR (sensory motor rhythm).

After my last week's session, I sat down and proceeded to read Healing Developmental Trauma. Despite having decent amount of time to read this book, I couldn't read the entire book in "one sitting". In fact, I still have the last chapter or so to go through. It brought a very strong "boomerang effect" that had me worried for a while, but somehow, I found whatever inner resources to sit down with everything the book was bringing out. After finally getting to the "staying in the body" techniques in the second half of the book, I started experimenting with that and it seemed to help.

Today during the NF session, I experimented with the techniques and realized I did a good job regardless of thoughts. I started thinking about troublesome memories and geopolitical events, and I seemed to do a good job just as long as I was "sitting" in my body. The minute I started dissociating, the screen will get very small.

I feel that great respite again after the NF session. Didn't lose my balance today, on the contrary.

Dreams have been pretty strong throughout the week, but nothing that I'm not ready to handle.

Now I finish the book, so I can apply the techniques one step at a time.

Laura said:

munaychasumaq said:

Seems to me to doing Èiriù Eolas we can access the same result in long term,and the results of Neurofeedback could be in short term.Am i Ok? Some suggestions?

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As you know, it is recommended that persons with certain psychological issues do NOT do portions of the EE program because it can trigger unpleasant cathartic reactions. That is exactly the sort of thing that NF helps to fix. And, if it fixes such problems, how much better can a person be who does NOT have those conditions by using NF?

From my point of view, NF is another tool in the kit that can help all of us to be all we can be, to lay a foundation for even higher achievements. I know that I still have limiting emotions that hold me back even after years and years of work. As I mentioned, for me, channeling the Cs is very much like NF; but obviously, I'm not sitting still and not exploring for better ways to build the mousetrap!

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Important points.So EE and NF can be complementary tools to achieve a better objective.Thanks Laura

I just had an intro session on the NeurOptimal at a chiropractor somewhat nearby. Given the cost and distance, though (the closest practitioner is a 2-hour drive away), we're just going to rent the system. Should arrive tomorrow, so we'll be able to report on results for a pretty big group of peeps. Can't report much immediately after just one session, personally. Despite thinking about various different stressful scenarios, it was still very relaxing. (I just relaxed and focused on the music for bits, then tried picturing some stressful triggers to see if there'd be a noticeable difference in the clicks - nothing noticeable though! I think I'll just relax and let the brain do its own thing when I do more sessions.) Once we get the system set up and running, we'll strap in the guinea pigs and see what happens!

Cross post from the Developmental Trauma thread:

Laura said:

Flashgordonv said:

I have had a look at what is available in Australia/ NZ and am somewhat disappointed to see that you have to buy a PC/tablet of some sort to run the software - there doesn't seem to be an option to just get the software. it makes the whole thing very expensive (US$7K plus a pass). Is there somewhere where you can just have sessions with a therapist ? I wasn't able to find any in our region.

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Just hang on for a bit. As soon as we determine for sure the benefits of the system, we'll try to work out ways so all our FOTCM members can participate. One option would be for the org to purchase a few of the personal systems and then they can be shipped to members for long enough to do a good set of sessions, and then shipped on to the next member. We've got two experimental groups at the moment that are renting the system to test it and a few outliers who have local practitioners who are trying it and reporting results. Results will be posted in this thread: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,33124.0.html

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Timótheos said:

Other than not, not too much to report. A few odd dreams the last couple of nights, most of which I can't remember now. We have another appointment scheduled for next week.

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One thing I forgot to add is that every night after my first session, I would wake up around 4:30am, and have difficulty falling to sleep afterwards.

We did our second NeurOptimal session yesterday, and this time I chose to watch the movie instead of listening to music. Luckily, our practitioner had recently expanded her selection of English movies, and I chose to watch "The Matrix". It seemed fitting, watching Neo emerge from the cocoon physically attached to the matrix, while having a bunch of wires attached to my own head as well.

Didn't hear near as many clicks as I did the first time, nor notice a lot of changes to the video output, but she assured me that the number of adjustments was the same or more than the first time. So, we'll see if I notice any changes over the next week or so.

FWIW, this week I noticed something similar to what I reported last week. The good effects seemed to last for 5 days. Then, out of the blue, a big "serotonin drop". Laura's post from yesterday was very timely in that regard, and so was keeping in mind the techniques suggested in "Healing Developmental Trauma" and trying to stay in the now. It's just that the contrast between the "bad days" and the "good days" after NF is definitely noticeable. Today it's a bit better.

So, I reckon I'm one of those who would need two sessions a week until the training sticks. But there is hope! ;) I've been having interesting dreams, one of which was a sort of review of my life as seen from the outside, and how each person and place was connected.

I tell ya, this really feels like a mental workout. Consistency may be a key factor, if others are experiencing similar effects.

Laura said:

We are up against forces and intelligences that are way bigger than we are individually, and only together, as a sort of super-being connected by chakras etc, will we get through this.

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Speaking of connecting chakras, I don't know if this could be useful, but Dr. Les Fehmi mentioned an interesting exercise in his NF workshop. He said that their practitioners on the first day do a regular NF training, but on the second day they connect their brains to the machine together with another person and then try to make synchrony with their brainwaves: https://youtu.be/ezr0ecuxcAo?t=212

One of the more interesting applications of synchrony training is with couples to foster connectedness. The couple may be a pair of any kind, a parent and child, two friends, business partners, two siblings, employer and employee, teacher and student, romantic partners or any other combination in which connectedness is desired. The protocol employs the use of linked neurofeedback that requires both partners to produce whole head phase synchronous brain waves in phase and in phase with each other in order to get feedback. Neither partner will get feedback if they are out of synchrony with the other. The resultant experience can be a sense of harmony and unity between people, dubbed “the honeymoon response” by one of our clients.

http://news.eeginfo.com/brain-wave-synchrony-training-for-individuals-and-couples/

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Thank you all for adding so much information on NF, this therapy seems very promising for most. Currently I'm undergoing changes from reconnecting some part of myself through EMDR, and processing much emotional baggage, but I think tackling my trauma from different angles should really make the difference. So I'll set up an appointment and share as I go.

I had my second session two days ago, and I haven't noticed anything much different afterwards. I continued watching the Pinocchio movie, and this time I wore headphones, so I was able to hear the clicks that other people have been reporting. When I arrived I was feeling tired, because there were roads blocked on the way and we ended up stuck at part of the road for an hour and a half, so while I was waiting for my husband to do his session, I was able to lay down and close my eyes a bit. Then, while I was watching my movie I felt relaxed and I could concentrate on the story. Afterwards I felt calm, but it didn't last long because of the long and complicated drive back, to avoid the roadblocks. So I don't know if this contibuted to not feeling different after the session.

Chu

The good effects seemed to last for 5 days.

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This is my experience too. After about five days I notices the ANTS (automatic negative thoughts) creeping back in my mind and mild, low-level feelings of anxiety becoming more noticeable.
Tomorrow I have my second session and I am really looking forward to it. I will likely discuss renting the program with about twenty sessions and do them every five days and see how it goes.

I've had my first two sessions this week (Tuesday and Thursday) with a local NF practitioner, who I found through the EEG Info website (recommended by Nora Gedgaudas) a few weeks ago - only one in my area (others are about 3 hours away). I was able to get the appointments for this past week.

She was trained by Drs. Othmer and uses the Othmer method with Cygnet software and NeuroAmp II.

Laura mentioned this software in the earlier post here:

Laura said:

Cygnet system: Neurofeedback: one- and two channel frequency band training and ILF (SCP) training according to Othmer, Alpha-Theta training. With additional Mitsar device or x23 accessory also tomographic (sLoreta) neurofeedback. Add-ons for sLoreta feedback and flexible system configuration fully approved but not available to clinicians. For research institutions only. Biofeedback: pIR far-infrared triple-sensor feedback.

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My first session:

I arrived with a focus on my anxiety/over-reactive tendencies. She asked me if I wanted to watch a show or an InnerTube. There's no option for music, but there's an option for games (which are for kids). I chose InnerTube as I was curious about it. It's where I watched a ship fly through a tube or tunnel on screen. The more my brain is balanced, the ship goes faster; the more my brain becomes imbalanced, the ship goes slow (or crash). It was literally like my brain was making the ship move without any use of a controller. During the movement through the tunnel, I noticed a number of black clouds popping up on the screen. She asked me how I was feeling every time that happened. I wasn't able to tell how I was feeling sometimes, but I did notice that I get distracted or racing thoughts (mostly about work) that I tend to treat them as normal thing, so to speak.

After the session, I didn't feel as tired as I was more calm. I skipped dinner as I didn't feel hungry. I was able to go to bed and sleep without taking melatonin (which I take regularly) and had vivid dreams that night - one of which the late actor Don Davis telling me that I'm not military, so I should relax. Then, I woke up the next day, feeling very alert.


Second session:

During this day of session (yesterday), I was having a rough day because my phone stopped working due to its recent upgrades the day before. I used my phone about 90% for work, so I struggled with trying to getting my work done on time. This weighted heavily on my mind when I arrived for my second session and told the practitioner as much.

This time, I chose the show, which I started watching Big Bang Theory (a downloaded 1st episode). I struggled through the show because it didn't have subtitles. The show was selected because it was everyone's "favorite", so to speak. She didn't have much of a selection but encouraged her patients to bring a DVD to watch. I had trouble hearing and following the show, trying to catch every actor's words, trying to understand the conversations. She noticed how frustrated I was and my EEG showed that. During the show, I noticed the screen can get smaller or shrinking and there were also "thick grey clouds" creeping up on the screen (which I wasn't used to seeing). I was really frustrated while watching the show.

After the show was over, I talked to her about subtitles (she didn't have any knowledge on subtitles) and we tested a DVD with subtitles on Cygnet. She found a third season of Big Bang Theory on DVD and played it with a subtitle setting. It worked. I found myself feeling relieved and relaxed. I was able to follow everything that's been happening on the show (with fewer "grey clouds" popping up) - for only 15 minutes until the session timed out. She noticed a big difference in my EEG during the show watching with no subtitle and with subtitle. I left the session, thinking about what DVD would I bring next time.

After the session, I didn't experience anything significant except for a notable minor pressure on my forehead that lasted about an hour. I was able to eat small snacks and felt full quickly. I also was able to sleep well into this morning.


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She recommended 20 sessions (with twice a week) to notice any significant change, but she pointed out that varies from person to person. I'll be trying out her sessions for a few more times as I'm trying not to go over my budget.

I recently looked around for local practitioners who use NeurOptimal; found a couple but their sessions are very, very pricey.

Hâte de lire les résultats de vos expériences... Un grand merci à vous Laura et les expérimentateurs...

Can't wait to read the results of your experiments... Many thanks to you Laura and the experimenters...

I had my first session using the NeuroOptimal system today. It lasted 33 minutes and I listened to some music. It felt a little like hypnosis but different. Some of the effect might have been due to the music - which was New Age with hypnotic beats and sounds. It was super relaxing and I almost fell asleep.

Afterward, for a good four hours or so I felt like I had just woken up after a deep sleep. I went to work after, and the usual stresses I experience didn't have much of an impact on me or wear me down like they sometimes do by the end of the day. My mind felt much clearer and a lot less prone to engage in any type of imaginary thought. I felt super even keel. I had a couple of mild headaches, but they didn't last more than an hour.

Renaissance said:

I had my first session using the NeuroOptimal system today. It lasted 33 minutes and I listened to some music. It felt a little like hypnosis but different. Some of the effect might have been due to the music - which was New Age with hypnotic beats and sounds. It was super relaxing and I almost fell asleep.

Afterward, for a good four hours or so I felt like I had just woken up after a deep sleep. I went to work after, and the usual stresses I experience didn't have much of an impact on me or wear me down like they sometimes do by the end of the day. My mind felt much clearer and a lot less prone to engage in any type of imaginary thought. I felt super even keel. I had a couple of mild headaches, but they didn't last more than an hour.

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As I mentioned before, I have also experienced some headaches in relation to the neurofeedback. I find that to be very interesting; sort of a piece of evidence that something significant is happening. I don't usually have headaches at all. I think it may be related to the shifting of contraction in the skull/spinal column area because it does seem to come from the top back of the neck. And yes, it is mild. Interesting.

I also agree that the usual stresses don't seem to have as much impact and the tendency to imagine scenarios in reaction to stress is greatly diminished.

This experiment is definitely getting interesting.