Cats recognise their owners' voices but never evolved to care

Okay, I'll bite ;)

Buddy said:
I find that cat attitude or temperament of "don't give a hoot" endearing.
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:D Same here, Buddy. It kinda puts me in my place. And it can remind me that caring should be for caring's sake, not for what I can get out of it.

Interesting, the contrast between dogs and cats and the fact that I love dogs for exactly the way they are and I love cats for exactly the way they are. :)
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Same here. This cat/dog polarity seems to be part of western culture (maybe global, I don't know), which to my mind suggests that it serves some sort of purpose for the STS system. Those who say 'I'm not a cat person, or 'I'm not a dog person' limit their own possibilities too. Dog people :/ miss out on so much that can be learned from interaction with cats, and the same goes for cat people. The whole thing is self-limiting, OSIT.

Anyway, it's not just cats that do as they please without concern for the sensibilities of humans. The first time I met Boycee, my brother's German Shephard, he spent at least a quarter of an hour sniffing me up and down while I stood there. I didn't argue with him :scared:

Cat's care. I've experienced it countless times.
 
I think, it's generalization that is a problem here. Like with describing human beings in general. Some care but many, if not most, don't, just look at the world out there.

Dogs, cats and human beings have some species related traits, but there are big differences within a given species, too: in temperament, personality, emotional life, etc. I met many cats that were 'just cats', they didn't care in any apparent way and seemed not to bond much, if at all. I met such dogs as well, not sure if fewer in number. But I also met both dogs and cats who did care in a way that seemed almost unbelievable and the bonds between us were deep and mutual. Perhaps there are statistical differences in bonding and caring between (humans,) dogs and cats, but we need to see such studies yet.

At least that's my experience and current thoughts, fwiw.
 
Possibility of Being said:
I think, it's generalization that is a problem here. Like with describing human beings in general. Some care but many, if not most, don't, just look at the world out there.

Dogs, cats and human beings have some species related traits, but there are big differences within a given species, too: in temperament, personality, emotional life, etc. I met many cats that were 'just cats', they didn't care in any apparent way and seemed not to bond much, if at all. I met such dogs as well, not sure if fewer in number. But I also met both dogs and cats who did care in a way that seemed almost unbelievable and the bonds between us were deep and mutual. Perhaps there are statistical differences in bonding and caring between (humans,) dogs and cats, but we need to see such studies yet.

At least that's my experience and current thoughts, fwiw.
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You've nailed it there, POB. Absolutely. Generalisation can lead to what is ultimately just noise, I suppose. I wonder if this relates to all polarities. It must do mustn't it? In fact it's generalisation that creates polarities. Duh! :huh:

Thought loop alert. Just ignore me.
 
I rather like dogs, and can't say much about cats, but one thing I can say about cats is that when I encounter one at home of cousins or friends, even though I express myself via thinking or saying it (I have the idea that the intention is what it counts) that I am not a cat person, I will not touching it, giving love and care, etc, as its owners do, to go and do its business, somewhere else, they keep coming back!! and that is beyond curious to me.

I once slept over at aunt home, in a some sort of attic, and a preep! cat of preep!!! the scare it gave me!!! ... all day long was near me (??!!) at night he was going to sleep with its owners, they said. I open my eyes in the middle of the night -I don't know why, I usually do not woke up in the middle of the night ... and there it was!! seeing me??!!, I just did not scream because I was still sleepy, I supposed. It kept visiting, and hanging near to me the 3 nights I slept there.
,
Cannot say I dislike cats, is just that they are so enigmatic to me, I suppose, that is why I like dogs more, they are more simpler, is easily to spot their emotions.

Possibility of Being said:
... Perhaps there are statistical differences in bonding and caring between (humans,) dogs and cats, but we need to see such studies yet.
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I think so too, I had had more experiences with dogs than with cats.
 
mabar said:
I rather like dogs, and can't say much about cats, but one thing I can say about cats is that when I encounter one at home of cousins or friends, even though I express myself via thinking or saying it (I have the idea that the intention is what it counts) that I am not a cat person, I will not touching it, giving love and care, etc, as its owners do, to go and do its business, somewhere else, they keep coming back!! and that is beyond curious to me.

I once slept over at aunt home, in a some sort of attic, and a preep! cat of preep!!! the scare it gave me!!! ... all day long was near me (??!!) at night he was going to sleep with its owners, they said. I open my eyes in the middle of the night -I don't know why, I usually do not woke up in the middle of the night ... and there it was!! seeing me??!!, I just did not scream because I was still sleepy, I supposed. It kept visiting, and hanging near to me the 3 nights I slept there.
,
Cannot say I dislike cats, is just that they are so enigmatic to me, I suppose, that is why I like dogs more, they are more simpler, is easily to spot their emotions.

Possibility of Being said:
... Perhaps there are statistical differences in bonding and caring between (humans,) dogs and cats, but we need to see such studies yet.
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I think so too, I had had more experiences with dogs than with cats.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: thanks, mabar, I loved reading that. Some cats love to torment certain people - usually people they know don't understand them so are at a disadvantage.

Was it Ghandi who said you can know a nation by the way it treats its animals? I think that works in some way for individuals - cats and dogs act as mirrors. What we like and don't like about them reveals parts of us to ourselves. Another mind-shattering revelation from yours truly. I'm obviously flowing tonight :/
 
Cats do not have owners, only feeders, and they do not care to evolve, for what purpose ?
Dreaming with a full stomach is much enough !
What else ?..
 
mabar said:
Cannot say I dislike cats, is just that they are so enigmatic to me, I suppose, that is why I like dogs more, they are more simpler, is easily to spot their emotions.
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I enjoy enigmas. They can be interesting and fun to try and figure out and sometimes worth the effort if you can be patient. :) Sometimes I think that the best way to befriend a cat is to just do nothing. That is, don't try and repel it and don't try to attract it. Just let it be at first; let it come and go and move around as if it owns the place and just wants to look around.

I did this once and made at least one permanent cat friend that way.

I was in my back yard one day when I caught a glimpse of a cat moving across the field approx. an acre distant from me. Since I spotted it before it spotted me, I made a noise and waited a second until it heard me and stopped to look my way. As soon as I made eye contact, I looked away disinterestedly, knelt down on my lawn and started playing with the grass, making slow movements.

After a moment, I looked back and saw the cat still watching me, so I looked away again. Since it was a sunny day, I slowly layed down and stretched out in the grass minding my own business and just layed there. It didn't take five minutes before that cat had silently approached me, making a circle, stopping and sitting down just in my peripheral vision about 20 yards away while looking directly at me.

I slowly glanced its way a couple of times and then, very slowly got up and walked into the house, ignoring it from then on. When I looked out the window in the direction where it had been sitting it was gone.

It took about 4 days of playing this game, until one morning I walked out the back door and found a dead mouse right in my path. It was a gift from the cat, believe it or not, because they will do that sometimes.

I threw the dead mouse away and returned the gift by leaving some tuna leftovers in an aluminum pan outside the back door that night. Next day the food had been eaten, but I never saw the cat on that day or the next.

That third night, though, it was sitting on the back porch where I left the food the previous couple of nights before and it was watching the back door.

When I looked out the window and saw that, I smiled big, thinking I'd made a friend, so I took some food out to it. From then on, we had another member of the family - an outside cat we simply named "mama cat" and we've been like best 'buds' ever since. She's had four generations of beautiful kittens that I know about - all born and raised close by.

Over time, my wife and I got to know mama cat pretty well and love her a lot. She likes to sleep in my lap or lay down beside me on warm sunny days when I can spend an hour or two outside.
 
Buddy said:
mabar said:
Cannot say I dislike cats, is just that they are so enigmatic to me, I suppose, that is why I like dogs more, they are more simpler, is easily to spot their emotions.
Click to expand...

I enjoy enigmas. They can be interesting and fun to try and figure out and sometimes worth the effort if you can be patient. :) Sometimes I think that the best way to befriend a cat is to just do nothing. That is, don't try and repel it and don't try to attract it. Just let it be at first; let it come and go and move around as if it owns the place and just wants to look around.

I did this once and made at least one permanent cat friend that way.

I was in my back yard one day when I caught a glimpse of a cat moving across the field approx. an acre distant from me. Since I spotted it before it spotted me, I made a noise and waited a second until it heard me and stopped to look my way. As soon as I made eye contact, I looked away disinterestedly, knelt down on my lawn and started playing with the grass, making slow movements.

After a moment, I looked back and saw the cat still watching me, so I looked away again. Since it was a sunny day, I slowly layed down and stretched out in the grass minding my own business and just layed there. It didn't take five minutes before that cat had silently approached me, making a circle, stopping and sitting down just in my peripheral vision about 20 yards away while looking directly at me.

I slowly glanced its way a couple of times and then, very slowly got up and walked into the house, ignoring it from then on. When I looked out the window in the direction where it had been sitting it was gone.

It took about 4 days of playing this game, until one morning I walked out the back door and found a dead mouse right in my path. It was a gift from the cat, believe it or not, because they will do that sometimes.

I threw the dead mouse away and returned the gift by leaving some tuna leftovers in an aluminum pan outside the back door that night. Next day the food had been eaten, but I never saw the cat on that day or the next.

That third night, though, it was sitting on the back porch where I left the food the previous couple of nights before and it was watching the back door.

When I looked out the window and saw that, I smiled big, thinking I'd made a friend, so I took some food out to it. From then on, we had another member of the family - an outside cat we simply named "mama cat" and we've been like best 'buds' ever since. She's had four generations of beautiful kittens that I know about - all born and raised close by.

Over time, my wife and I got to know mama cat pretty well and love her a lot. She likes to sleep in my lap or lay down beside me on warm sunny days when I can spend an hour or two outside.
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That is a beautiful story, Buddy. Variations of it have peppered my own life. And I totally relate to this - "I enjoy enigmas. They can be interesting and fun to try and figure out and sometimes worth the effort if you can be patient." :)

And isn't that particular dynamic present as part of the reason we are here in this community - sort of In Search of the Enigmatic? What you achieved with mama cat when she first materialised in your life took work,and a strategy, on your part. You already had the knowledge with that one though :)
 
Buddy said:
Cheers, The Strawman, and thanks for the kind words. :)
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My pleasure, Buddy. Your work (among others) on the forum has been, and is being, significant and incredibly helpful in regulating my self-adjustments here. That was a bit of a mouthful but I think you'll probably get what I mean. I was just in the Jacob Needleman - Lost Christianity thread, realising that I'm not alone in the effect that book can have on us. I'll post on that thread when I finish the book.

Anyway, back to cats and dogs ;)
 
Minas Tirith said:
This is a quote from Winston Churchill
I like pigs.
Cats look down on us.
Dogs look up to us.
Pigs treat us like equals
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M.T.
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This is a good quote coming from a pig? :evil:

Konrad Lorenz said that cats are wild animals and that it is very strange that humans wanted to tame a cat and live with them. You have to live with a cat to know how a cat is, I think so. And every cat has his personality. They are individuals, every one is different. But they are wild, free and very different than a dog. Cats love silence, solitude and peace. And they can be dangerous when mad, their nails are terrible. But they can be gentle, very compassionate. I have a cat that use to come to me every time I am sick or sad, he smells my eyes to see if I cry and stay with me. They are obsessed with food, maybe because they have a collective memory of hunger? In ancient times cats where a scapegoat, like wolfs. In our collective memory cats are bad, mad and very mysterious. They are mysterious but not bad and not mad. The world of cats is not very known. Some time ago I read an excellent book about cats by a wonderful woman that is an anthropologist. Her book is a very interesting window to understand the Cat.

http://www.amazon.com/Tribe-Tiger-Elizabeth-Marshall-Thomas/dp/0743426894
 
loreta said:
Minas Tirith said:
This is a quote from Winston Churchill
I like pigs.
Cats look down on us.
Dogs look up to us.
Pigs treat us like equals
Click to expand...

M.T.
Click to expand...

This is a good quote coming from a pig? :evil:

Konrad Lorenz said that cats are wild animals and that it is very strange that humans wanted to tame a cat and live with them. You have to live with a cat to know how a cat is, I think so. And every cat has his personality. They are individuals, every one is different. But they are wild, free and very different than a dog. Cats love silence, solitude and peace. And they can be dangerous when mad, their nails are terrible. But they can be gentle, very compassionate. I have a cat that use to come to me every time I am sick or sad, he smells my eyes to see if I cry and stay with me. They are obsessed with food, maybe because they have a collective memory of hunger? In ancient times cats where a scapegoat, like wolfs. In our collective memory cats are bad, mad and very mysterious. They are mysterious but not bad and not mad. The world of cats is not very known. Some time ago I read an excellent book about cats by a wonderful woman that is an anthropologist. Her book is a very interesting window to understand the Cat.

http://www.amazon.com/Tribe-Tiger-Elizabeth-Marshall-Thomas/dp/0743426894
Click to expand...

:D Well said about Churchill, Loreta. To think I asked for a statuette of him for xmas when I was a kid. Yeah I know - strange request from a kid, but they were pumping those little statuettes out in the early sixties and he looked like a real father figure. The cigar looked good too. Didn't know about psychopaths in those days. My wife's grandfather was left to languish in a Japanese POW camp by Churchill. Apparently Churchill knew the Japanese were waiting for the Brits when they docked at Singapore harbour but sent them in anyway, without telling them the good news. They literally took them off their ship and straight to the POW camp. The grandfather came back with classic psychopathic tendencies, a cruel man who then went to work in a psychiatric hospital, and Ali's (my wife) mum and Ali and her sisters suffered as a result of all that.

Wise words about cats, Loreta. They are incredible creatures. I'll get that book :)
 
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