May 27, 1995
Frank, Laura, Jan and Terry, Carla and Roger Santilli
A: Rouswo.
Q: (L) I guess that is the name. Hello, how are you this evening? (T) Who do we have with us?
A: Name given.
Q: (T) Where are you from?
A: Cassiopaea.
Q: (T) How are you tonight?
A: Okay.
Q: (T) We are doing okay too. We have some company this evening.
A: Good.
Q: (T) Roger and Carla Santilli are with us. Roger has some questions to ask later.
A: Hello, Roger.
Q: (RS) Hello. (T) Do you have anything you want to talk about to start off with?
A: Channel open.
Q: (L) Alright, let's start off with the question that Susan and I have wondered about: Is it alright if I give the Reiki initiation during the Mercury retrograde?
A: Of course!
Q: (L) That's what I thought. Go ahead, Roger, ask what ever you like. (RS) I want to know whether we can have any clues on the propulsion systems of UFOs?
A: Sure!
Q: (RS) What's the mechanism of the propulsion?
A: This is difficult to answer when posed in such a manner, as we are talking about multiple realities, density levels and various modes as well!!
Q: (RS) Is the gravity experienced by an anti-particle in the field of matter attractive or repulsive?
A: Repulsive when thought of in the way that is parallel to your studies, but, as we alluded to in the previous answer, there are more realms involved besides the one with which you are most familiar.
Q: (RS) The next question is: particles move, matter moves, in our direction of time, do anti-particles, anti-matter, flow backward in time?
A: Think of it as merely one seventh of the equation, Roger!
Q: (L) Can we get an answer on whether this is the case strictly on the third level of density?
A: Backward.
Q: (RS) Yes! I am interested in the propulsion systems of UFOs, the only way that I can perceive travelling the long distances involved in interstellar space is to have what is called a "space/time" machine. We cannot move the enormous distances unless you can fold, somehow, time and space. You cannot fold space unless you join it and fold time. You cannot have interstellar travel unless you have a space/time machine. But, a space/time machine means to also have the ability to move forward and backward in time, to manipulate time.
(L) Yes, you would have to cross distances and simultaneously move backward through time so that you would end up arriving wherever you are going essentially at the same moment that you left.
(RS) That is why I asked whether we can use anti-matter as a propulsion, because it would be repulsive in the right direction. The second question whether, when we use anti- matter, we would move backward in time. Because, some of those objects, you see them moving, and they can be moving in space but not in time, or they could be moving in time but not in space. If you see a UFO, it does not mean that it is in our time. It could be in a completely different time. (L) And, they disappear sometimes right before the eyes of the observer, and the question is: where do they go? They could be standing still in space, but moving time. Or moving backwards.
(L) And, there are a lot of abductions reported where there is seemingly no time lost at all. They come in, haul the victim out, do whatever they do, and then they slide them back in a fraction of a second away, if not at the identical second they took the victim out!
(RS) Yes! This article I presented is exactly about this point! If, indeed, anti- particles have lift, then necessarily they have to go backward in time. Then they manipulate this: you can have an abduction any length of time inside the craft, but in our time, in our level three, it is zero time!
(L) Yes, exactly! And not only that, there is the phenomenon of the craft that looks small from the outside, but inside is huge!
(RS) That is all tied up in it! This is very exciting. I am learning the language. In our third level, the motion in space and time occurs via the change of the unit of time and space, therefore, can we change the unit?
A: Yes, this is precisely what we mean when we speak of "transiting from 4th to 3rd."
Q: (RS) So, when they travel from 4th to 3rd, they change the units. That is precisely what is in the article in the journal! [Holds up book.] This is published in the Ukraine, [turns to page and displays diagrams and equations] this is the experiment to test anti-gravity. There is a two mile long tunnel which is a vacuum inside. They suck the air out. The first measure is to shoot photons to identify, at the end of the two mile tunnel, the no gravity point. The second measure is to shoot a neutron, and we know that a neutron is attractive. So, after two miles, the energy is very, very low. So, there is no gravitational effect when the neutron hits the point. Then, the third step is to shoot an anti-neutron at the same time and see what happens. This experiment will resolve this issue that this board has answered very scientifically. We call it the gravity of anti-particles because we don't know. It can be down... Einstein predicts this as attractive as a neutron, anti-matter and matter have the same gravitational attraction. That's what Einstein says.
But, when Einstein's theory was proposed, in 1915, anti-matter wasn't discovered until 50 years later. If now, theoretically, the only way a particle, in our theory, can go up, can have lift, is if time is reversed. There is no other possibility. So, if this experiment is correct, then the space/time machine is absolutely a consequence and can be tested in a laboratory. You can have a particle moving backward and forward in time.
[Displays new diagram.] This is the other experiment which is, in this case, is done by putting a particle which is neutral and subjecting it to... since we don't have a bunch of anti-matter - ideally we would have a pellet of matter and replace it with anti-matter - we don't have a pellet of anti-matter, at this point, there are ways to do it though and it can be measured as to which way it moves, up or down.
Now, the question of the units, it is very important, a fundamental question, because, say, you are outside a UFO, and you see the UFO as big as a car, say, and people go inside and report this enormous interior. There is no other way to do this than by changing the unit. What is for us one inch, that unit is completely different inside. For us the unit is the same along the three directions. Now, if you are inside, they can have different units in different directions. This means that if you are outside a cube, and you go inside, the shape, not only the dimensions but the shape even, can be different.
A: Density borderline cross awareness. Does Roger have familiarity with density definitions?
Q: (L) Did we ever get a density definition, Terry. (T) Just about the seven levels. (L) Okay, what is a density definition?
A: Review, using your own knowledge base, i.e. network.
Q: (L) What do we understand about density? (T) There are seven levels of density. (L) First level of density is rocks, minerals, plants. They have an awareness at there level. Rocks may even grow and move, but they do it so slowly that we cannot perceive it. Second level is the animal kingdom. This density awareness relates to geometrical progression. The first level has the awareness of a line. The second level has awareness of a line moving at right angles to itself, or planes. Third density is human beings and we have the awareness of the plane moving at right angles to itself, but we can never experience this fully. We see things as three dimensional only because we create an illusion based on memory and knowledge. We can never know the other side or the inside while we are looking at any given side.
(J) The Witnesses in Heinlein's book could only tell what they actually saw. If you asked them the color of a barn, they would tell you that the side they could see was red. If you took them around to see the back and they saw that it was red also, and you then asked them what color it was after it was no longer in view, they would still say that the side they could see was red. If you asked them about the other side that they had seen, they would say that since they could no longer see it, it may have changed color so they would not attest to it.
(L) So, third density is like that. We can only know things by our perception. So, if we extend the idea of 1st, to second, to third, to fourth, and try to understand what fourth density would be like, because then you would know the cup or other object all the way through at once. You would experience a sphere inside and out and all around all at once. We stretch for this...
(T) Fourth density is inclusive of all the densities below it and an added density. Fifth would be, again, fourth density nature turned at right angles to itself. The same for sixth and then seventh, which the Cassiopaeans call "The One." The completion point.
(L) And we have no idea of how to express these things. They have told us about TransDimensional Atomic Remolecularizers and we asked them how to build one. They asked if we had a couple of days to sit and take direction.
(RS) I do! I do!
(L) We know, and we said the same, but then they asked us where were we going to get the parts?
(RS) It would be like trying to build electronics in ancient Roman times...
(T) Or, telling a dog how to build a watch. Even if the dog understands how to build it, where is he going to get the parts?
(RS) This point of how deceptive is our perception has been proven scientifically with the seashells. Didn't we discuss about the seashells? (T) Yes. (RS) At the third level, is it true that the value of the dimension is changed by the available energy, or the energy is used to change the value of the units?
A: This concept crosses the density barrier, not limited to level three.
Q: (RS) Goes up to level four. That's the means of propulsion of the UFO.
A: Reason for exponential awareness "explosion" is approach of wave. Now, concentrate on visualization, answers are located there... After a period of contemplation, Roger to "hit upon" breakthrough question to solve puzzle currently occupying "center stage" of his psyche, with only one piece missing currently. [JR note: I take this to mean that Roger will be able to come up with questions to access the Cassiopaean information in a way so that the information can be dispensed. Also that his awareness is exploding as a result of the oncoming wave.]
Q: (T) Starting with the fourth density, we are no longer confined to the physical. The key phrase is "variability of physicality." Once you move from 3rd density to 4th density, and we are all moving upward toward seventh density. When you raise your knowledge, your awareness, to a certain level, you can move to the next level. When we move from third to fourth density, at that point, we have the ability to visualize and decide what our reality is. We create reality from fourth level on. So, at one point, there may not be a solid reality. It may all be energy, we would be light beings, so to speak. We could change that just by thinking about it and making a solid reality. Or, as solid as we wish. This point also, from fourth density up, there is no such thing as time as we perceive it. Our perception of time only exists in the first three densities. Each density perceives it differently.
(RS) What we perceive as back and forth in time, when we go to the fourth level, it doesn't exist anymore. Beings on that level can move back and forth through our density of time because, for them, it doesn't exist. It is all now. It is only one time.
(L) It is like a whole bunch of different doors, one says 1917, one says 1943, or whatever, and they can walk through whichever one they wish...
(T) There is the Realm Border. The Earth is moving into a 4th density area of space. Or it is moving toward us, or both. This Realm Border, this crossover between densities, and it's also a crossover between dimensions - a quick sidebar on dimensions: dimensions, according to the Cassiopaeans are lateral realities; all possible realities of a density level, an infinite number; there is a difference between density and dimension.
(RS) This is a fascinating meeting because the answers to the question about moving mathematically from the third level to the fourth level, this change in the units, the answer is exactly what is proposed in my book. The answer, as given, is possible...
(T) We have been told that the universe teems with life at all levels, and that humans are just one selection.
(L) And what they are saying, I think, is that this oncoming realm border, this density change, is being felt and is stimulating consciousness. Essentially what has been said is that what is coming up for us is the ending of a Grand Cycle. A Grand Cycle is 300,000 years... (T) Give or take a day... (L) ...as we measure time. At the beginning of this Grand Cycle, we were genetically altered to reduce our awareness and also genetically altered through our DNA to perceive time itself. It is in our DNA to be limited this way. Now, at the end of this 300,000 year cycle, a lot of people are reassembling this broken DNA as a result of the changes in energy, and that this is causing their mental powers and perceptions to expand exponentially. I think that they are telling you that this energy is acting on you in a way to allow you to have the breakthrough that you need to finish the puzzle that you have been working on. By having the concepts that you are being given now, you will be able to hold this as a visual and this will give you the key.
(RS) I notice that if the question is not properly phrased... (L) You don't get your answer! Be specific.
A: Careful not to confuse with too much data that is not connected in the same concept arena, as visitor is concerned primarily with one direction; in order to familiarize let data be absorbed on schedule comfortable to researcher! Like trying to learn mathematics in broken dosages!
Q: (L) They are telling us not to tell you too much at once because it will take you away from the central question you are working on.
(RS) Also, I think we should report this work to the MUFON group!
(T) We offered to do this at the meeting and they don't want to do it. This does not fall within MUFON's guidelines.
(L) It is not nuts and bolts. (RS) But this has answered all the questions for the article! In an incredible way! It has answered all the fundamental questions.
(J) This is the first time that we have had someone present who has the technical background to understand what is going on and what kind of communication we are receiving.
(RS) Yes, it has me excited!
A: His energy has effect upon group.
Q: (RS) Two short questions and then I will stop...
A: Ask as many as you desire!
Q: (RS) In our level three, does the use of anti-matter change the sign of the unit? Does this imply the reversal of the sign of the unit of space and time?
A: Yes, but problem has always been for level three entities, that the "other" side is uncharted, therefore experimentation is not recommended, unless with assistance from level four through six STO.
Q: (RS) That is an incredible answer because this is traveling in time. First they said that by using energy you can change the numerical value of the units, and from this (incomprehensible) you can make a (incomprehensible) show. Now the question: how you can go backward in time; by changing the sign of the unit: plus one second and we move forward, if that unit is changed to minus one second, we move backward. So the question, whether by using anti-matter we can move backward. But their answer was saying... precisely, that we are moving from level three to level four. Last question and then I am through.
A: Not correct, Roger!
Q: (L) It's not going to be your last question! [Laughter] (J) They already said to ask as many as you desire!
A: This session has been designated for you! That is why we arranged for you to be here!! You are about to embark upon an extensive tour, whereby you will be communicating and networking, and in fact studying and researching with others of similar paths. The learning and knowledge gain that will result from this sojourn will have extremely major implications! Therefore, consider this to be your "night!"
Q: (RS) They insist on it! Then, I have another very important question! In Greece, at this time, at the University of Santia (?), the nuclear physics laboratory at the University, there is a potentially fundamental experiment going on based on my studies and this book here, [displays book] to search for fundamentally new source of energy by bombarding zinc 70 or molybdenum 100 via Gamma with 1.294 MeV energy. Will the experiment be successful... (Carla) Ah ah... they will not answer that! (J) They may not touch that one.... (RS) Will zinc 70 be a new source of energy? Can these substances be new sources of energy?
A: All of the experiments you speak of share one thing in common: They all "touch the borderline" from the perspective of the third density side.
Q: (T) When you talked about using the anti-matter they said: "Yes" you can work with it, but you are only getting it on one side and you can't get to fourth density side unless you have someone working with you from over there, you have to find a fourth density being to help you here... but you are touching it, you are at the edge of where you can go in third density... (RS) Will you help us? (Carla) Yes, let's be practical! [Laughter]
A: Terry did not give exactly correct answer. It is possible to cross over into fourth density from third, using third density technology. In fact, this has already been accomplished by various individuals and groups on a more or less accidental basis, the problem is "what does one do when one reaches fourth density reality with only third density training and experience?"
Q: (L) Could you, if we spent the time, help us with this training and technology?
A: Yes, but what do you intend to use it for? This is not like going to Disney World for a day, you know!
Q: (Susan) They sure told you, Laura! [Laughter] (T) I guess then that what Roger is working on is hitting the edge of third density and it can cross over! My question is: if a crossover is accomplished, will the experimenters know what has happened? What will they do? Will they be aware that they have just stepped into the twilight zone, so to speak. Opening that up is a door, or a window, and stuff can go both ways! (L) We were told that the members of the famous Flight 19 are frozen in a time warp and are still trying to get their bearings! They think no time has passed. (RS) In this type of theory, this is very plausible! (L) Well, you don't want to find yourself in a similar position! (T) Yeah, Carla will be on the phone asking: "When is Roger coming home?" And you will be over in fourth density asking: "How do I get home from this one!" [Laughter] (J) I have a question: If it is not like going to Disney World, does the ride ever end?
A: Too complex, your query is too vague.
Q: (J) I was just making a joke! (T) Mirth, mirth! (RS) Did they answer the question as to whether they will help us? (L) They said yes.
A: What is your knowledge quotient regarding following: electromagnetism, Einstein's "unified field theory." And did he ever complete said theory, or was it completed under the supervision of consortium, and suppressed. And if so, what are the ramifications!!! Also, Roger, are you capable of "filling in the blanks," we think so!
[Laura's note: I don't think they mean the "blanks" of the unified field theory, but rather reading between the lines of this answer! What, exactly, are the ramifications of research in this direction?]
Q: (RS) From the third level there cannot be a unification of electromagnetism and gravitation because they are identical. There is an identity between electromagnetism and gravitation. So, there is no need of the unification because they are identical. Is this view correct?
A: Yes. What about fourth level?
Q: (T) What does this mean for fourth level? (RS) To my understanding to the third level, this is where the possibility to go up a level comes in. If gravitation and electromagnetism are identical, then anti-gravity exists. The origin of anti-gravity is not unification. Einstein was wrong, but the identification that they are the same implies the existence of anti-gravity.
A: Wrong when searching on level three density exclusively, but this is where the Consortium comes in, i.e. "Can of Worms."
[Note: "Wrong" is referring to Einstein's theory.]
Q: (T) It is considered known to the general public that Einstein did not complete his Unified Field Theory, but that may be a falsehood. Part of the disinformation campaign.
(RS) From what we know, Einstein failed to achieve the Unified Field Theory because the assumptions were not realizable.
(T) Maybe his ideas were taken and completed by someone else and suppressed. [Roger sits at board] (RS) Can I ask a question? The origin of the mass of an elementary particle is primarily electromagnetic, therefore, the gravitational field of elementary particle must be primarily of electromagnetic nature. That's why the view at level three is, outside mass, the gravitation and electromagnetism are identical. This is our belief at this time, supported by experimental evidence. Why is this wrong? I need an explanation.
A: Not wrong at level three, wrong to limit to 3rd level.
Q: (RS) Is it true that the universe has equal amounts of matter and anti-matter as seen from level three?
A: Yes, all others as well.
Q: (RS) Then it is true that the total time in the universe is null?
A: Yes.
Q: (RS) This is incredible!
A: But, Roger less pressure! [Roger lightens up] ...thank you. Now, remember, most important concept is balance. How is balance achieved?
Q: (L) I guess that whatever there is one of, there is one of the opposite.
(RS) Matter and anti-matter. So, if matter is flowing in this direction of time, anti-matter is flowing the other way. They balance each other.
(J) STO and STS. We have to have both.
(RS) This is my question of the total time of the universe which is zero. If we flow this way, maybe others in another galaxy are flowing another way. The sum is zero.
A: Not galaxy, dimension.
Q: (RS) Yes. Another level. I always think at level three!
A: Not any more! [Laughter]
Q: (RS) How can we represent mathematically the identification of gravity and electromagnetism, including the fourth level that you suggest? How can this be done? How can the inclusion of the fourth level be realized?
A: We asked you to visualize for answers. It is always there for you to discover.
Q: (RS) It is not going to be easy, but I am going to give it a try.
A: What ever is?
Q: (RS) The question is how to represent mathematically the transition to the fourth level. I think that this can be done by the isogeometries, the geometry which we discussed earlier, which is generalization of the unit of space and time...
A: Geometry is one key, but there is another.
Q: (L) What is the other key? Maybe its a three dimensional matrix. (RS) That's what we use. We also use the cubic. (L) Could you give us a clue. Just a little clue. (RS) Give us the formula!
A: Have already... access...
Q: (L) They say they already have. Well, you know, all the time when I type these transcripts, I constantly find that things have been said that I didn't realize at the time the import. (RS) We should have a session... because this is confirmation of the only mathematical model we have of the UFOs... the only one that exists as far as I know. We have a computer model... we cannot build a UFO, we don't have the technology, but we can put the formula into the computer and get a model.
A: Merge geometry with optics.
Q: (RS) What?! It is the science of light. (L) Geometric light?
A: Matrix.
Q: (RS) That is precisely what I have done. I've done a representation of light represented by a unit which is a matrix. I have already done this! Years ago!
A: But you left out one important factor, remember, hypothesis does not theory make!
Q: (RS) I made a conceptual hypothesis in my mind. That's not a theory. It has to be formulated in a quantitative way, that's the mathematics, the formula, and then this has to be proven experimentally that it works. Hypothesis, formula, and experimental verification is the process for a theory.
A: Now, what factor was missing, Roger?
Q: (L) What is it? (RS) I don't know. (L) Maybe it's because you didn't factor in fourth density? (RS) Oh yes! That's for sure! (J) Maybe that's the missing factor. (RS) But how... I do not know how to express it mathematically...
A: Light waves... gravity... electromagnetism...
Q: (L) They are toying with you. [Laughter] (J) What is this, multiple choice? (RS) I have to think it over. In isogeometry...
A: What role do waves play in third level understanding of physics?
Q: (RS) Transverse oscillation of the ether... the medium that fills up the entire universe. No wave can exist unless there is a medium to propagate it. Transverse oscillations fill up the entire universe.
A: Light, gravity, optics, atomic particles, matter, anti- matter... unify, please.
Q: (RS) That lists everything...
(J) What do they all have in common?
(RS) Oh! All of them are vibrations of the medium that fills up the universe! We perceive things, everything, even spaces between things. Reality is the opposite of this. Because light is a wave, like sound. If you remove the air, sound cannot propagate. Light is the same thing. Light is a wave and cannot propagate unless there is a medium that fills up the entire universe. So what we perceive as being solid and empty is not true perception. The whole universe is filled with the vibration of this medium. So, without the medium, there would be darkness. So, light is an oscillation of this medium. A particle is also an oscillation only the wave propagates and the oscillation stays there. So when I move my hand from here to here, I have just moved the oscillation. The space is oscillating. We are completely empty, but space is filled up. So, the answer is that what they have in common is that they are all oscillations of this medium that fills up the entire universe as perceived from third level and I think from fourth. (L) Maybe they are talking about it in a spectral sense? (RS) They could be...
A: Now, what relation between gravity and light?
Q: (RS) I do not know. At this moment in my studies, I do not know. (L) Maybe that is the key? (RS) Light can be converted into matter, therefore there is gravitation. (L) But, what could the relation between gravity and light be?
[Laura's Note: What about time? Since, at the speed of light there is no matter and no gravity and no time, maybe the three are different ways of describing the same thing? Maybe time is an electromagnetic, gravity producing phenomenon or vice versa which has a byproduct: matter???]
A: Access knowledge base and network.
Q: (L) They said discuss it.
(RS) The only connection between light and gravitation... the photon and the photon produces a pair of electron and positron, particles and anti-particles, and those particles have gravitation. So, in this way electromagnetic waves... a photon can create matter...
(L) And matter has gravity...
(RS) And matter has gravity, so... it can be converted...
(L) But where does it come from?
(RS) That is a good question because it isn't known. It could come from a vacuum...
(L) But how does it happen?
(RS) In experiments in the laboratory, you shoot a photon at a nucleus and the nucleus spits one electron and one positron, and so you have conversion of photon into particles. Those particles have gravitation. I do not know if a photon has gravitation. I don't think so, it travels at the speed of light. There is no time. Time is suspended.
(L) Okay, is it true that at the speed of light, there is no gravity?
(RS) There is no gravity.
(L) Okay, then maybe the speed of light is the antithesis of gravity just as anti-matter is the opposite of matter?
(RS) That is a good point. A very good point!
A: Close.
Q: (J) Is it about balance?
A: All is.
Q: (L) If at the speed of light there is no gravity... (RS) There is no time... (L) Then gravity must be... (J) What keeps us in third density... (RS) The clue... But is the missing clue... are we discussing the missing point to go from the third to the fourth density?
A: Yes.
Q: (RS) Then the point is valid. (J) Is gravity what keeps us in third density? (RS) So, then if you go at the speed of light then you are in fourth density.
A: Now, what is missing factor which allows third density and fourth density matter to achieve light speed without disintegration? Think...
Q: (RS) That is the fundamental question of nuclear physics... matter cannot reach the speed of light intact... (J) Anti-gravity? (RS) Even by using anti- gravity. At this moment, matter cannot do this...
(L) Okay, if you have some matter and this matter is speeding up, and it is approaching the speed of light and it is losing its integrity the faster it goes, what if, at some point you start incrementally adding anti-matter which...
(RS) Use the inverse process... take an electron and positron and put one inside the other and recreate the photon. But matter cannot reach the speed of light... if it does, time stops... there is no dimension...
(L) Maybe it is consciousness?
(J) Awareness?
(RS) If it is awareness, yes...
(L) Can you factor in consciousness mathematically?
(RS) Yes, of course!
A: What is the missing link between matter and consciousness?
Q: (RS) Ah! (L) If we knew these things we wouldn't be here! [Laughter] (RS) It is supposed to be a field. (J) Is it EM? (RS) No, a bioenergetic field. (L) What if consciousness creates gravity? (RS) Gravity is created by matter. (L) But isn't matter created by consciousness? Don't we collapse the wave by observing it? (RS) Yes, the mind can create matter...
A: There are no "gravitons."
Q: (RS) Not to my knowledge. They do not exist. They are in Einstein's theory, but I will never believe it... Does our consciousness create gravity?
A: Getting "warmer." Not "our."
Q: (L) Somebody else's consciousness creates gravity? (RS) Fourth level.
A: Level Seven.
Q: (RS) Oh yes! That I can understand! The ultimate level. Is it true that the universe, as perceived from level three, which is expected to be made up of equal amounts of matter and anti-matter, is, in actuality, open? That is, is matter continuously created somewhere in the universe? Matter and anti-matter?
A: Better word would be: Recycled.
Q: (RS) Is it true that the same recycling occurs in the center of the earth. There is a theory that the earth is expanding. I heard this at a congress, that the earth is expanding in diameter precisely because the center of the earth is in process of the creation of matter. Is this correct?
A: Off base, but all concepts are valid within unified dimensionality.
Q: (L) I guess that in some alternate universe that may be happening, it just doesn't happen to be here.
(RS) My biggest problem has never been new knowledge, but politics, particularly the politics on Einstein. Is the can of worms mentioned before, can you give me anything on this? As soon as you go beyond Einstein, there are all sorts of problems, political problems in our contemporary society. Any suggestions?
A: Political problems have root in effort to suppress knowledge already gained in limited quarters for purposes of control of civilization.
Q: (RS) That is the best answer I ever heard. Very, very good.
(T) I have two questions to ask. About experiments that are pushing the borderline between third and fourth density... what happens when the experiment reaches the barrier? What can we expect?
A: Depends on individual circumstances, as we already have told you, this has already happened many times.
Q: (L) The Philadelphia Experiment, I suppose... (J) Flight 19... (T) Okay, those have had negative ramifications. What are the implications, reaching the densities, without understanding of what has been done?
A: Already answered.
Q: (L) Yeah, they talked about that. Insanity. (J) Yes, and the people who thought they found Flight 19 went nutzoid. When the researchers reach the barrier, will they recognize that something has happened?
A: Partially.
Q: (T) When the barriers have been breached so many times, can it be stopped? In other words, can the breaches be repaired?
A: Vague.
Q: (L) That's assuming that they don't close automatically. (T) Do they close automatically once the activity is stopped? No, that's too vague. While I was walking around outside smoking my cigar, I was getting the image that one of the reasons that Roger is here tonight is to experience this, but also to see and read what we give you. We are not making this up. It is coming from somewhere. There is substance to this information. Roger is going to Europe. You have colleagues in Europe who are working on these very same things. The Cassiopaeans have indicated that you are on the edge of opening this barrier. That this can be done, it has been done with disastrous results the few times that we know of and possibly other times that we do not know of. What I am getting at is, part of the reason you are here and seeing this may be because you need to take this information with you because when they breach these barriers, they need to understand what they have done. Because, if they don't there is a possibility that what is transpiring naturally will be accelerated. Does artificial breaching of the barrier between the densities accelerate...
A: Yes.
Q: (T) That may be why when we ask how long this process is going to take, this oncoming density change, they answer "one month to 18 years." And we were thinking that maybe they can't tell how long it is going to take for this transition point, this realm border to come through our section of space/time and do whatever it does. Maybe what they are referring to is not that, but what people might do in terms of breaching the barrier unknowingly. They are stretching what they know, and pushing onward, but they don't understand what this is all about.
A: Yes.
Q: (T) You just had the survival of the whole of civilization moved onto your shoulders, Roger! [Laughter] Laura has been sitting here week after week saying "I don't want the whole burden of the world on my shoulders!" Roger, you just got part of it! (RS) Part of it, yes. I was the technical advisor on the book, "The Andreasson Affair," because she made all sorts of drawings of things she saw on spacecraft. Any comment on the (incomprehensible) Research Institute in Italy?
A: Institute is controlled by Carboni "Foundation," which is linked to questionable funding sources; no need to be disappointed, however, as knowledge protects. Therefore one can work in any environment without corruption when armed with knowledge.
Q: (RS) I don't understand. (J) Maybe you need to find out about it... (L) I don't think you need to worry about it. (RS) What about Cardone? (Carla) The board said Carboni... (RS) Who is the guy we are talking to on the board?
A: Guy?
Q: [Laughter] (RS) Did they say Cardone or Carboni?
A: Carboni Foundation.
Q: (RS) There is no foundation named this! (L) Well, there may be funding coming from there. (RS) Not from Carboni... (Carla) Wait and see...
[Good night to Carla and Roger who had to leave. Discussion followed.]
(L) As you demolecularize moving toward the speed of light, it can be represented as a cone shape. The point of the cone is the speed of light, a sort of singularity, and as you reach this point, this is where you apply the remolecularizer, because maybe you remolecularize as you emerge into an opposite funnel on the other side. I wonder if the Transdimensional Atomic Remolecularizer is a device that applies anti-matter in incremental, graduated doses, for lack of a better word, as you are speeded up? At one end you have light which has no gravity, no time, no mass. At the other end we have gravity, time and mass. What is the transition? Of the three pairs we were given, they each seem to be opposite to each other: Light and gravity, optics and atomic particles, matter and anti-matter...
(J) It's all about balance. What is the relation between gravity and light? What is the missing factor which allows third density and fourth density matter to achieve light speed without disintegration? What is the missing link between matter and consciousness?
(L) What is the missing link? Well, I think the relationship is right there. What is it that slows down light causing photons to manifest, collapsing the wave, so to speak, and creating matter?
(J) It may be that this same factor that allows third density to achieve light speed without disintegration. What is the missing link between matter and consciousness?
(L) Well, the relationship is there. We were told we were getting close when we said "consciousness" but that it was not our consciousness, but that of level seven. [Laura's note: Could electromagnetism be the "field" of the consciousness of "God" or level seven that crosses all densities? Cayce once remarked that "God is electricity." Is there some range of electromagnetism in the human consciousness that can be detected, amplified, augmented by controlled electromagnetic waves?]
(J) They said that "creation" was a recycling.
Q: (L) Are you still there?
A: As always, Laura, do you think we go out to lunch or something? [Laughter] You keep asking if we are here?!?
Q: (J) They are always here, in us. We are all interconnected. (T) We are them, they are us, right here! (L) Okay, guys, we are so glad you know so much physics. And, since you do, or, since "we" know so much physics... (T) Did you enjoy talking to Roger and would you like to talk to him again?
A: Yes. Will.
Q: (L) Am I getting warm when I say... we have light and gravity, optics and atomic particles, matter and anti- matter, all are ways of talking about a transition... are these three pairs of relationships?
A: Close.
Q: (L) What is the thing that collapses the wave function?
A: ?
Q: (L) Is it consciousness?
A: Yes...
Q: (L) There is more. Can this consciousness be expressed... (T) We are trying to get from a third density concept to a fourth density concept where there is no physicality, per se. At fourth density they don't have a problem with going at the speed of light and disintegrating, because it doesn't exist there...
A: Close.
Q: (T) So, for us to try and think of this in third density...
A: Variable physicality is the key.
Q: (L) What makes the physicality variable?
A: Awareness of link between consciousness and matter.
Q: (L) What is the link between consciousness and matter?
A: Illusion.
Q: (L) What is the nature of the illusion? (T) That there isn't any connection between consciousness and matter. It is only an illusion that there is. It is part of the third density...
A: No. Illusion is that there is not.
Q: (L) The illusion is that there is no link between consciousness and matter.
A: Yes.
Q: (T) The illusion is that there is not a link. In third density... (L) I got it! (T) Don't disappear on me now! [Laughter] The relationship is that consciousness is matter.
A: Close. What about vice versa?
Q: (L) Just reverse everything. Light is gravity. Optics are atomic particles, matter is anti-matter... just reverse everything to understand the next level... it can't be that easy. (J) Wait a second: gravity equals light, atomic particles equals optics, anti-matter equals matter? It is all about balance. (L) And the answer must always be zero.
A: And zero is infinity.
Q: (L) So, you are saying that it is not that there is a link, the illusion is that there is separation. There is no difference, they are the same?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) If you warp space/time you travel by bringing your destination to you. (L) Or, you can reverse that and understand that there is no distance between us and, say, Alpha Centauri, it is the alteration of perception that turns the axis and creates the illusion of distance.
A: Now, all you need is the "technology."
Q: (T) The technology is being developed right now. (J) The technology has probably already been developed, it is just suppressed.
A: Yes.
Q: (L) I have a very strange sense that this interaction has ramifications?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) A hint?
A: We could but won't at this "time."
Q: (T) Are these major ramifications?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Is there anything further for this evening? (T) Do we need to impart anything further to ourselves?
A: No.
Q: (L) Then we will say thank you and good-night.
A: Good night.
End of Session.
Frank, Laura, Jan and Terry, Carla and Roger Santilli
A: Rouswo.
Q: (L) I guess that is the name. Hello, how are you this evening? (T) Who do we have with us?
A: Name given.
Q: (T) Where are you from?
A: Cassiopaea.
Q: (T) How are you tonight?
A: Okay.
Q: (T) We are doing okay too. We have some company this evening.
A: Good.
Q: (T) Roger and Carla Santilli are with us. Roger has some questions to ask later.
A: Hello, Roger.
Q: (RS) Hello. (T) Do you have anything you want to talk about to start off with?
A: Channel open.
Q: (L) Alright, let's start off with the question that Susan and I have wondered about: Is it alright if I give the Reiki initiation during the Mercury retrograde?
A: Of course!
Q: (L) That's what I thought. Go ahead, Roger, ask what ever you like. (RS) I want to know whether we can have any clues on the propulsion systems of UFOs?
A: Sure!
Q: (RS) What's the mechanism of the propulsion?
A: This is difficult to answer when posed in such a manner, as we are talking about multiple realities, density levels and various modes as well!!
Q: (RS) Is the gravity experienced by an anti-particle in the field of matter attractive or repulsive?
A: Repulsive when thought of in the way that is parallel to your studies, but, as we alluded to in the previous answer, there are more realms involved besides the one with which you are most familiar.
Q: (RS) The next question is: particles move, matter moves, in our direction of time, do anti-particles, anti-matter, flow backward in time?
A: Think of it as merely one seventh of the equation, Roger!
Q: (L) Can we get an answer on whether this is the case strictly on the third level of density?
A: Backward.
Q: (RS) Yes! I am interested in the propulsion systems of UFOs, the only way that I can perceive travelling the long distances involved in interstellar space is to have what is called a "space/time" machine. We cannot move the enormous distances unless you can fold, somehow, time and space. You cannot fold space unless you join it and fold time. You cannot have interstellar travel unless you have a space/time machine. But, a space/time machine means to also have the ability to move forward and backward in time, to manipulate time.
(L) Yes, you would have to cross distances and simultaneously move backward through time so that you would end up arriving wherever you are going essentially at the same moment that you left.
(RS) That is why I asked whether we can use anti-matter as a propulsion, because it would be repulsive in the right direction. The second question whether, when we use anti- matter, we would move backward in time. Because, some of those objects, you see them moving, and they can be moving in space but not in time, or they could be moving in time but not in space. If you see a UFO, it does not mean that it is in our time. It could be in a completely different time. (L) And, they disappear sometimes right before the eyes of the observer, and the question is: where do they go? They could be standing still in space, but moving time. Or moving backwards.
(L) And, there are a lot of abductions reported where there is seemingly no time lost at all. They come in, haul the victim out, do whatever they do, and then they slide them back in a fraction of a second away, if not at the identical second they took the victim out!
(RS) Yes! This article I presented is exactly about this point! If, indeed, anti- particles have lift, then necessarily they have to go backward in time. Then they manipulate this: you can have an abduction any length of time inside the craft, but in our time, in our level three, it is zero time!
(L) Yes, exactly! And not only that, there is the phenomenon of the craft that looks small from the outside, but inside is huge!
(RS) That is all tied up in it! This is very exciting. I am learning the language. In our third level, the motion in space and time occurs via the change of the unit of time and space, therefore, can we change the unit?
A: Yes, this is precisely what we mean when we speak of "transiting from 4th to 3rd."
Q: (RS) So, when they travel from 4th to 3rd, they change the units. That is precisely what is in the article in the journal! [Holds up book.] This is published in the Ukraine, [turns to page and displays diagrams and equations] this is the experiment to test anti-gravity. There is a two mile long tunnel which is a vacuum inside. They suck the air out. The first measure is to shoot photons to identify, at the end of the two mile tunnel, the no gravity point. The second measure is to shoot a neutron, and we know that a neutron is attractive. So, after two miles, the energy is very, very low. So, there is no gravitational effect when the neutron hits the point. Then, the third step is to shoot an anti-neutron at the same time and see what happens. This experiment will resolve this issue that this board has answered very scientifically. We call it the gravity of anti-particles because we don't know. It can be down... Einstein predicts this as attractive as a neutron, anti-matter and matter have the same gravitational attraction. That's what Einstein says.
But, when Einstein's theory was proposed, in 1915, anti-matter wasn't discovered until 50 years later. If now, theoretically, the only way a particle, in our theory, can go up, can have lift, is if time is reversed. There is no other possibility. So, if this experiment is correct, then the space/time machine is absolutely a consequence and can be tested in a laboratory. You can have a particle moving backward and forward in time.
[Displays new diagram.] This is the other experiment which is, in this case, is done by putting a particle which is neutral and subjecting it to... since we don't have a bunch of anti-matter - ideally we would have a pellet of matter and replace it with anti-matter - we don't have a pellet of anti-matter, at this point, there are ways to do it though and it can be measured as to which way it moves, up or down.
Now, the question of the units, it is very important, a fundamental question, because, say, you are outside a UFO, and you see the UFO as big as a car, say, and people go inside and report this enormous interior. There is no other way to do this than by changing the unit. What is for us one inch, that unit is completely different inside. For us the unit is the same along the three directions. Now, if you are inside, they can have different units in different directions. This means that if you are outside a cube, and you go inside, the shape, not only the dimensions but the shape even, can be different.
A: Density borderline cross awareness. Does Roger have familiarity with density definitions?
Q: (L) Did we ever get a density definition, Terry. (T) Just about the seven levels. (L) Okay, what is a density definition?
A: Review, using your own knowledge base, i.e. network.
Q: (L) What do we understand about density? (T) There are seven levels of density. (L) First level of density is rocks, minerals, plants. They have an awareness at there level. Rocks may even grow and move, but they do it so slowly that we cannot perceive it. Second level is the animal kingdom. This density awareness relates to geometrical progression. The first level has the awareness of a line. The second level has awareness of a line moving at right angles to itself, or planes. Third density is human beings and we have the awareness of the plane moving at right angles to itself, but we can never experience this fully. We see things as three dimensional only because we create an illusion based on memory and knowledge. We can never know the other side or the inside while we are looking at any given side.
(J) The Witnesses in Heinlein's book could only tell what they actually saw. If you asked them the color of a barn, they would tell you that the side they could see was red. If you took them around to see the back and they saw that it was red also, and you then asked them what color it was after it was no longer in view, they would still say that the side they could see was red. If you asked them about the other side that they had seen, they would say that since they could no longer see it, it may have changed color so they would not attest to it.
(L) So, third density is like that. We can only know things by our perception. So, if we extend the idea of 1st, to second, to third, to fourth, and try to understand what fourth density would be like, because then you would know the cup or other object all the way through at once. You would experience a sphere inside and out and all around all at once. We stretch for this...
(T) Fourth density is inclusive of all the densities below it and an added density. Fifth would be, again, fourth density nature turned at right angles to itself. The same for sixth and then seventh, which the Cassiopaeans call "The One." The completion point.
(L) And we have no idea of how to express these things. They have told us about TransDimensional Atomic Remolecularizers and we asked them how to build one. They asked if we had a couple of days to sit and take direction.
(RS) I do! I do!
(L) We know, and we said the same, but then they asked us where were we going to get the parts?
(RS) It would be like trying to build electronics in ancient Roman times...
(T) Or, telling a dog how to build a watch. Even if the dog understands how to build it, where is he going to get the parts?
(RS) This point of how deceptive is our perception has been proven scientifically with the seashells. Didn't we discuss about the seashells? (T) Yes. (RS) At the third level, is it true that the value of the dimension is changed by the available energy, or the energy is used to change the value of the units?
A: This concept crosses the density barrier, not limited to level three.
Q: (RS) Goes up to level four. That's the means of propulsion of the UFO.
A: Reason for exponential awareness "explosion" is approach of wave. Now, concentrate on visualization, answers are located there... After a period of contemplation, Roger to "hit upon" breakthrough question to solve puzzle currently occupying "center stage" of his psyche, with only one piece missing currently. [JR note: I take this to mean that Roger will be able to come up with questions to access the Cassiopaean information in a way so that the information can be dispensed. Also that his awareness is exploding as a result of the oncoming wave.]
Q: (T) Starting with the fourth density, we are no longer confined to the physical. The key phrase is "variability of physicality." Once you move from 3rd density to 4th density, and we are all moving upward toward seventh density. When you raise your knowledge, your awareness, to a certain level, you can move to the next level. When we move from third to fourth density, at that point, we have the ability to visualize and decide what our reality is. We create reality from fourth level on. So, at one point, there may not be a solid reality. It may all be energy, we would be light beings, so to speak. We could change that just by thinking about it and making a solid reality. Or, as solid as we wish. This point also, from fourth density up, there is no such thing as time as we perceive it. Our perception of time only exists in the first three densities. Each density perceives it differently.
(RS) What we perceive as back and forth in time, when we go to the fourth level, it doesn't exist anymore. Beings on that level can move back and forth through our density of time because, for them, it doesn't exist. It is all now. It is only one time.
(L) It is like a whole bunch of different doors, one says 1917, one says 1943, or whatever, and they can walk through whichever one they wish...
(T) There is the Realm Border. The Earth is moving into a 4th density area of space. Or it is moving toward us, or both. This Realm Border, this crossover between densities, and it's also a crossover between dimensions - a quick sidebar on dimensions: dimensions, according to the Cassiopaeans are lateral realities; all possible realities of a density level, an infinite number; there is a difference between density and dimension.
(RS) This is a fascinating meeting because the answers to the question about moving mathematically from the third level to the fourth level, this change in the units, the answer is exactly what is proposed in my book. The answer, as given, is possible...
(T) We have been told that the universe teems with life at all levels, and that humans are just one selection.
(L) And what they are saying, I think, is that this oncoming realm border, this density change, is being felt and is stimulating consciousness. Essentially what has been said is that what is coming up for us is the ending of a Grand Cycle. A Grand Cycle is 300,000 years... (T) Give or take a day... (L) ...as we measure time. At the beginning of this Grand Cycle, we were genetically altered to reduce our awareness and also genetically altered through our DNA to perceive time itself. It is in our DNA to be limited this way. Now, at the end of this 300,000 year cycle, a lot of people are reassembling this broken DNA as a result of the changes in energy, and that this is causing their mental powers and perceptions to expand exponentially. I think that they are telling you that this energy is acting on you in a way to allow you to have the breakthrough that you need to finish the puzzle that you have been working on. By having the concepts that you are being given now, you will be able to hold this as a visual and this will give you the key.
(RS) I notice that if the question is not properly phrased... (L) You don't get your answer! Be specific.
A: Careful not to confuse with too much data that is not connected in the same concept arena, as visitor is concerned primarily with one direction; in order to familiarize let data be absorbed on schedule comfortable to researcher! Like trying to learn mathematics in broken dosages!
Q: (L) They are telling us not to tell you too much at once because it will take you away from the central question you are working on.
(RS) Also, I think we should report this work to the MUFON group!
(T) We offered to do this at the meeting and they don't want to do it. This does not fall within MUFON's guidelines.
(L) It is not nuts and bolts. (RS) But this has answered all the questions for the article! In an incredible way! It has answered all the fundamental questions.
(J) This is the first time that we have had someone present who has the technical background to understand what is going on and what kind of communication we are receiving.
(RS) Yes, it has me excited!
A: His energy has effect upon group.
Q: (RS) Two short questions and then I will stop...
A: Ask as many as you desire!
Q: (RS) In our level three, does the use of anti-matter change the sign of the unit? Does this imply the reversal of the sign of the unit of space and time?
A: Yes, but problem has always been for level three entities, that the "other" side is uncharted, therefore experimentation is not recommended, unless with assistance from level four through six STO.
Q: (RS) That is an incredible answer because this is traveling in time. First they said that by using energy you can change the numerical value of the units, and from this (incomprehensible) you can make a (incomprehensible) show. Now the question: how you can go backward in time; by changing the sign of the unit: plus one second and we move forward, if that unit is changed to minus one second, we move backward. So the question, whether by using anti-matter we can move backward. But their answer was saying... precisely, that we are moving from level three to level four. Last question and then I am through.
A: Not correct, Roger!
Q: (L) It's not going to be your last question! [Laughter] (J) They already said to ask as many as you desire!
A: This session has been designated for you! That is why we arranged for you to be here!! You are about to embark upon an extensive tour, whereby you will be communicating and networking, and in fact studying and researching with others of similar paths. The learning and knowledge gain that will result from this sojourn will have extremely major implications! Therefore, consider this to be your "night!"
Q: (RS) They insist on it! Then, I have another very important question! In Greece, at this time, at the University of Santia (?), the nuclear physics laboratory at the University, there is a potentially fundamental experiment going on based on my studies and this book here, [displays book] to search for fundamentally new source of energy by bombarding zinc 70 or molybdenum 100 via Gamma with 1.294 MeV energy. Will the experiment be successful... (Carla) Ah ah... they will not answer that! (J) They may not touch that one.... (RS) Will zinc 70 be a new source of energy? Can these substances be new sources of energy?
A: All of the experiments you speak of share one thing in common: They all "touch the borderline" from the perspective of the third density side.
Q: (T) When you talked about using the anti-matter they said: "Yes" you can work with it, but you are only getting it on one side and you can't get to fourth density side unless you have someone working with you from over there, you have to find a fourth density being to help you here... but you are touching it, you are at the edge of where you can go in third density... (RS) Will you help us? (Carla) Yes, let's be practical! [Laughter]
A: Terry did not give exactly correct answer. It is possible to cross over into fourth density from third, using third density technology. In fact, this has already been accomplished by various individuals and groups on a more or less accidental basis, the problem is "what does one do when one reaches fourth density reality with only third density training and experience?"
Q: (L) Could you, if we spent the time, help us with this training and technology?
A: Yes, but what do you intend to use it for? This is not like going to Disney World for a day, you know!
Q: (Susan) They sure told you, Laura! [Laughter] (T) I guess then that what Roger is working on is hitting the edge of third density and it can cross over! My question is: if a crossover is accomplished, will the experimenters know what has happened? What will they do? Will they be aware that they have just stepped into the twilight zone, so to speak. Opening that up is a door, or a window, and stuff can go both ways! (L) We were told that the members of the famous Flight 19 are frozen in a time warp and are still trying to get their bearings! They think no time has passed. (RS) In this type of theory, this is very plausible! (L) Well, you don't want to find yourself in a similar position! (T) Yeah, Carla will be on the phone asking: "When is Roger coming home?" And you will be over in fourth density asking: "How do I get home from this one!" [Laughter] (J) I have a question: If it is not like going to Disney World, does the ride ever end?
A: Too complex, your query is too vague.
Q: (J) I was just making a joke! (T) Mirth, mirth! (RS) Did they answer the question as to whether they will help us? (L) They said yes.
A: What is your knowledge quotient regarding following: electromagnetism, Einstein's "unified field theory." And did he ever complete said theory, or was it completed under the supervision of consortium, and suppressed. And if so, what are the ramifications!!! Also, Roger, are you capable of "filling in the blanks," we think so!
[Laura's note: I don't think they mean the "blanks" of the unified field theory, but rather reading between the lines of this answer! What, exactly, are the ramifications of research in this direction?]
Q: (RS) From the third level there cannot be a unification of electromagnetism and gravitation because they are identical. There is an identity between electromagnetism and gravitation. So, there is no need of the unification because they are identical. Is this view correct?
A: Yes. What about fourth level?
Q: (T) What does this mean for fourth level? (RS) To my understanding to the third level, this is where the possibility to go up a level comes in. If gravitation and electromagnetism are identical, then anti-gravity exists. The origin of anti-gravity is not unification. Einstein was wrong, but the identification that they are the same implies the existence of anti-gravity.
A: Wrong when searching on level three density exclusively, but this is where the Consortium comes in, i.e. "Can of Worms."
[Note: "Wrong" is referring to Einstein's theory.]
Q: (T) It is considered known to the general public that Einstein did not complete his Unified Field Theory, but that may be a falsehood. Part of the disinformation campaign.
(RS) From what we know, Einstein failed to achieve the Unified Field Theory because the assumptions were not realizable.
(T) Maybe his ideas were taken and completed by someone else and suppressed. [Roger sits at board] (RS) Can I ask a question? The origin of the mass of an elementary particle is primarily electromagnetic, therefore, the gravitational field of elementary particle must be primarily of electromagnetic nature. That's why the view at level three is, outside mass, the gravitation and electromagnetism are identical. This is our belief at this time, supported by experimental evidence. Why is this wrong? I need an explanation.
A: Not wrong at level three, wrong to limit to 3rd level.
Q: (RS) Is it true that the universe has equal amounts of matter and anti-matter as seen from level three?
A: Yes, all others as well.
Q: (RS) Then it is true that the total time in the universe is null?
A: Yes.
Q: (RS) This is incredible!
A: But, Roger less pressure! [Roger lightens up] ...thank you. Now, remember, most important concept is balance. How is balance achieved?
Q: (L) I guess that whatever there is one of, there is one of the opposite.
(RS) Matter and anti-matter. So, if matter is flowing in this direction of time, anti-matter is flowing the other way. They balance each other.
(J) STO and STS. We have to have both.
(RS) This is my question of the total time of the universe which is zero. If we flow this way, maybe others in another galaxy are flowing another way. The sum is zero.
A: Not galaxy, dimension.
Q: (RS) Yes. Another level. I always think at level three!
A: Not any more! [Laughter]
Q: (RS) How can we represent mathematically the identification of gravity and electromagnetism, including the fourth level that you suggest? How can this be done? How can the inclusion of the fourth level be realized?
A: We asked you to visualize for answers. It is always there for you to discover.
Q: (RS) It is not going to be easy, but I am going to give it a try.
A: What ever is?
Q: (RS) The question is how to represent mathematically the transition to the fourth level. I think that this can be done by the isogeometries, the geometry which we discussed earlier, which is generalization of the unit of space and time...
A: Geometry is one key, but there is another.
Q: (L) What is the other key? Maybe its a three dimensional matrix. (RS) That's what we use. We also use the cubic. (L) Could you give us a clue. Just a little clue. (RS) Give us the formula!
A: Have already... access...
Q: (L) They say they already have. Well, you know, all the time when I type these transcripts, I constantly find that things have been said that I didn't realize at the time the import. (RS) We should have a session... because this is confirmation of the only mathematical model we have of the UFOs... the only one that exists as far as I know. We have a computer model... we cannot build a UFO, we don't have the technology, but we can put the formula into the computer and get a model.
A: Merge geometry with optics.
Q: (RS) What?! It is the science of light. (L) Geometric light?
A: Matrix.
Q: (RS) That is precisely what I have done. I've done a representation of light represented by a unit which is a matrix. I have already done this! Years ago!
A: But you left out one important factor, remember, hypothesis does not theory make!
Q: (RS) I made a conceptual hypothesis in my mind. That's not a theory. It has to be formulated in a quantitative way, that's the mathematics, the formula, and then this has to be proven experimentally that it works. Hypothesis, formula, and experimental verification is the process for a theory.
A: Now, what factor was missing, Roger?
Q: (L) What is it? (RS) I don't know. (L) Maybe it's because you didn't factor in fourth density? (RS) Oh yes! That's for sure! (J) Maybe that's the missing factor. (RS) But how... I do not know how to express it mathematically...
A: Light waves... gravity... electromagnetism...
Q: (L) They are toying with you. [Laughter] (J) What is this, multiple choice? (RS) I have to think it over. In isogeometry...
A: What role do waves play in third level understanding of physics?
Q: (RS) Transverse oscillation of the ether... the medium that fills up the entire universe. No wave can exist unless there is a medium to propagate it. Transverse oscillations fill up the entire universe.
A: Light, gravity, optics, atomic particles, matter, anti- matter... unify, please.
Q: (RS) That lists everything...
(J) What do they all have in common?
(RS) Oh! All of them are vibrations of the medium that fills up the universe! We perceive things, everything, even spaces between things. Reality is the opposite of this. Because light is a wave, like sound. If you remove the air, sound cannot propagate. Light is the same thing. Light is a wave and cannot propagate unless there is a medium that fills up the entire universe. So what we perceive as being solid and empty is not true perception. The whole universe is filled with the vibration of this medium. So, without the medium, there would be darkness. So, light is an oscillation of this medium. A particle is also an oscillation only the wave propagates and the oscillation stays there. So when I move my hand from here to here, I have just moved the oscillation. The space is oscillating. We are completely empty, but space is filled up. So, the answer is that what they have in common is that they are all oscillations of this medium that fills up the entire universe as perceived from third level and I think from fourth. (L) Maybe they are talking about it in a spectral sense? (RS) They could be...
A: Now, what relation between gravity and light?
Q: (RS) I do not know. At this moment in my studies, I do not know. (L) Maybe that is the key? (RS) Light can be converted into matter, therefore there is gravitation. (L) But, what could the relation between gravity and light be?
[Laura's Note: What about time? Since, at the speed of light there is no matter and no gravity and no time, maybe the three are different ways of describing the same thing? Maybe time is an electromagnetic, gravity producing phenomenon or vice versa which has a byproduct: matter???]
A: Access knowledge base and network.
Q: (L) They said discuss it.
(RS) The only connection between light and gravitation... the photon and the photon produces a pair of electron and positron, particles and anti-particles, and those particles have gravitation. So, in this way electromagnetic waves... a photon can create matter...
(L) And matter has gravity...
(RS) And matter has gravity, so... it can be converted...
(L) But where does it come from?
(RS) That is a good question because it isn't known. It could come from a vacuum...
(L) But how does it happen?
(RS) In experiments in the laboratory, you shoot a photon at a nucleus and the nucleus spits one electron and one positron, and so you have conversion of photon into particles. Those particles have gravitation. I do not know if a photon has gravitation. I don't think so, it travels at the speed of light. There is no time. Time is suspended.
(L) Okay, is it true that at the speed of light, there is no gravity?
(RS) There is no gravity.
(L) Okay, then maybe the speed of light is the antithesis of gravity just as anti-matter is the opposite of matter?
(RS) That is a good point. A very good point!
A: Close.
Q: (J) Is it about balance?
A: All is.
Q: (L) If at the speed of light there is no gravity... (RS) There is no time... (L) Then gravity must be... (J) What keeps us in third density... (RS) The clue... But is the missing clue... are we discussing the missing point to go from the third to the fourth density?
A: Yes.
Q: (RS) Then the point is valid. (J) Is gravity what keeps us in third density? (RS) So, then if you go at the speed of light then you are in fourth density.
A: Now, what is missing factor which allows third density and fourth density matter to achieve light speed without disintegration? Think...
Q: (RS) That is the fundamental question of nuclear physics... matter cannot reach the speed of light intact... (J) Anti-gravity? (RS) Even by using anti- gravity. At this moment, matter cannot do this...
(L) Okay, if you have some matter and this matter is speeding up, and it is approaching the speed of light and it is losing its integrity the faster it goes, what if, at some point you start incrementally adding anti-matter which...
(RS) Use the inverse process... take an electron and positron and put one inside the other and recreate the photon. But matter cannot reach the speed of light... if it does, time stops... there is no dimension...
(L) Maybe it is consciousness?
(J) Awareness?
(RS) If it is awareness, yes...
(L) Can you factor in consciousness mathematically?
(RS) Yes, of course!
A: What is the missing link between matter and consciousness?
Q: (RS) Ah! (L) If we knew these things we wouldn't be here! [Laughter] (RS) It is supposed to be a field. (J) Is it EM? (RS) No, a bioenergetic field. (L) What if consciousness creates gravity? (RS) Gravity is created by matter. (L) But isn't matter created by consciousness? Don't we collapse the wave by observing it? (RS) Yes, the mind can create matter...
A: There are no "gravitons."
Q: (RS) Not to my knowledge. They do not exist. They are in Einstein's theory, but I will never believe it... Does our consciousness create gravity?
A: Getting "warmer." Not "our."
Q: (L) Somebody else's consciousness creates gravity? (RS) Fourth level.
A: Level Seven.
Q: (RS) Oh yes! That I can understand! The ultimate level. Is it true that the universe, as perceived from level three, which is expected to be made up of equal amounts of matter and anti-matter, is, in actuality, open? That is, is matter continuously created somewhere in the universe? Matter and anti-matter?
A: Better word would be: Recycled.
Q: (RS) Is it true that the same recycling occurs in the center of the earth. There is a theory that the earth is expanding. I heard this at a congress, that the earth is expanding in diameter precisely because the center of the earth is in process of the creation of matter. Is this correct?
A: Off base, but all concepts are valid within unified dimensionality.
Q: (L) I guess that in some alternate universe that may be happening, it just doesn't happen to be here.
(RS) My biggest problem has never been new knowledge, but politics, particularly the politics on Einstein. Is the can of worms mentioned before, can you give me anything on this? As soon as you go beyond Einstein, there are all sorts of problems, political problems in our contemporary society. Any suggestions?
A: Political problems have root in effort to suppress knowledge already gained in limited quarters for purposes of control of civilization.
Q: (RS) That is the best answer I ever heard. Very, very good.
(T) I have two questions to ask. About experiments that are pushing the borderline between third and fourth density... what happens when the experiment reaches the barrier? What can we expect?
A: Depends on individual circumstances, as we already have told you, this has already happened many times.
Q: (L) The Philadelphia Experiment, I suppose... (J) Flight 19... (T) Okay, those have had negative ramifications. What are the implications, reaching the densities, without understanding of what has been done?
A: Already answered.
Q: (L) Yeah, they talked about that. Insanity. (J) Yes, and the people who thought they found Flight 19 went nutzoid. When the researchers reach the barrier, will they recognize that something has happened?
A: Partially.
Q: (T) When the barriers have been breached so many times, can it be stopped? In other words, can the breaches be repaired?
A: Vague.
Q: (L) That's assuming that they don't close automatically. (T) Do they close automatically once the activity is stopped? No, that's too vague. While I was walking around outside smoking my cigar, I was getting the image that one of the reasons that Roger is here tonight is to experience this, but also to see and read what we give you. We are not making this up. It is coming from somewhere. There is substance to this information. Roger is going to Europe. You have colleagues in Europe who are working on these very same things. The Cassiopaeans have indicated that you are on the edge of opening this barrier. That this can be done, it has been done with disastrous results the few times that we know of and possibly other times that we do not know of. What I am getting at is, part of the reason you are here and seeing this may be because you need to take this information with you because when they breach these barriers, they need to understand what they have done. Because, if they don't there is a possibility that what is transpiring naturally will be accelerated. Does artificial breaching of the barrier between the densities accelerate...
A: Yes.
Q: (T) That may be why when we ask how long this process is going to take, this oncoming density change, they answer "one month to 18 years." And we were thinking that maybe they can't tell how long it is going to take for this transition point, this realm border to come through our section of space/time and do whatever it does. Maybe what they are referring to is not that, but what people might do in terms of breaching the barrier unknowingly. They are stretching what they know, and pushing onward, but they don't understand what this is all about.
A: Yes.
Q: (T) You just had the survival of the whole of civilization moved onto your shoulders, Roger! [Laughter] Laura has been sitting here week after week saying "I don't want the whole burden of the world on my shoulders!" Roger, you just got part of it! (RS) Part of it, yes. I was the technical advisor on the book, "The Andreasson Affair," because she made all sorts of drawings of things she saw on spacecraft. Any comment on the (incomprehensible) Research Institute in Italy?
A: Institute is controlled by Carboni "Foundation," which is linked to questionable funding sources; no need to be disappointed, however, as knowledge protects. Therefore one can work in any environment without corruption when armed with knowledge.
Q: (RS) I don't understand. (J) Maybe you need to find out about it... (L) I don't think you need to worry about it. (RS) What about Cardone? (Carla) The board said Carboni... (RS) Who is the guy we are talking to on the board?
A: Guy?
Q: [Laughter] (RS) Did they say Cardone or Carboni?
A: Carboni Foundation.
Q: (RS) There is no foundation named this! (L) Well, there may be funding coming from there. (RS) Not from Carboni... (Carla) Wait and see...
[Good night to Carla and Roger who had to leave. Discussion followed.]
(L) As you demolecularize moving toward the speed of light, it can be represented as a cone shape. The point of the cone is the speed of light, a sort of singularity, and as you reach this point, this is where you apply the remolecularizer, because maybe you remolecularize as you emerge into an opposite funnel on the other side. I wonder if the Transdimensional Atomic Remolecularizer is a device that applies anti-matter in incremental, graduated doses, for lack of a better word, as you are speeded up? At one end you have light which has no gravity, no time, no mass. At the other end we have gravity, time and mass. What is the transition? Of the three pairs we were given, they each seem to be opposite to each other: Light and gravity, optics and atomic particles, matter and anti-matter...
(J) It's all about balance. What is the relation between gravity and light? What is the missing factor which allows third density and fourth density matter to achieve light speed without disintegration? What is the missing link between matter and consciousness?
(L) What is the missing link? Well, I think the relationship is right there. What is it that slows down light causing photons to manifest, collapsing the wave, so to speak, and creating matter?
(J) It may be that this same factor that allows third density to achieve light speed without disintegration. What is the missing link between matter and consciousness?
(L) Well, the relationship is there. We were told we were getting close when we said "consciousness" but that it was not our consciousness, but that of level seven. [Laura's note: Could electromagnetism be the "field" of the consciousness of "God" or level seven that crosses all densities? Cayce once remarked that "God is electricity." Is there some range of electromagnetism in the human consciousness that can be detected, amplified, augmented by controlled electromagnetic waves?]
(J) They said that "creation" was a recycling.
Q: (L) Are you still there?
A: As always, Laura, do you think we go out to lunch or something? [Laughter] You keep asking if we are here?!?
Q: (J) They are always here, in us. We are all interconnected. (T) We are them, they are us, right here! (L) Okay, guys, we are so glad you know so much physics. And, since you do, or, since "we" know so much physics... (T) Did you enjoy talking to Roger and would you like to talk to him again?
A: Yes. Will.
Q: (L) Am I getting warm when I say... we have light and gravity, optics and atomic particles, matter and anti- matter, all are ways of talking about a transition... are these three pairs of relationships?
A: Close.
Q: (L) What is the thing that collapses the wave function?
A: ?
Q: (L) Is it consciousness?
A: Yes...
Q: (L) There is more. Can this consciousness be expressed... (T) We are trying to get from a third density concept to a fourth density concept where there is no physicality, per se. At fourth density they don't have a problem with going at the speed of light and disintegrating, because it doesn't exist there...
A: Close.
Q: (T) So, for us to try and think of this in third density...
A: Variable physicality is the key.
Q: (L) What makes the physicality variable?
A: Awareness of link between consciousness and matter.
Q: (L) What is the link between consciousness and matter?
A: Illusion.
Q: (L) What is the nature of the illusion? (T) That there isn't any connection between consciousness and matter. It is only an illusion that there is. It is part of the third density...
A: No. Illusion is that there is not.
Q: (L) The illusion is that there is no link between consciousness and matter.
A: Yes.
Q: (T) The illusion is that there is not a link. In third density... (L) I got it! (T) Don't disappear on me now! [Laughter] The relationship is that consciousness is matter.
A: Close. What about vice versa?
Q: (L) Just reverse everything. Light is gravity. Optics are atomic particles, matter is anti-matter... just reverse everything to understand the next level... it can't be that easy. (J) Wait a second: gravity equals light, atomic particles equals optics, anti-matter equals matter? It is all about balance. (L) And the answer must always be zero.
A: And zero is infinity.
Q: (L) So, you are saying that it is not that there is a link, the illusion is that there is separation. There is no difference, they are the same?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) If you warp space/time you travel by bringing your destination to you. (L) Or, you can reverse that and understand that there is no distance between us and, say, Alpha Centauri, it is the alteration of perception that turns the axis and creates the illusion of distance.
A: Now, all you need is the "technology."
Q: (T) The technology is being developed right now. (J) The technology has probably already been developed, it is just suppressed.
A: Yes.
Q: (L) I have a very strange sense that this interaction has ramifications?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) A hint?
A: We could but won't at this "time."
Q: (T) Are these major ramifications?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Is there anything further for this evening? (T) Do we need to impart anything further to ourselves?
A: No.
Q: (L) Then we will say thank you and good-night.
A: Good night.
End of Session.
