Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

Palinurus said:

angelburst29 said:

It seems - the subject got buried?

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Not quite.

We're all awaiting the next step in the criminal investigation process: the naming of those 'who did it', the actual charges and their exact wording, and maybe the start of some form of judicial procedures.

Therefore, I would characterize the current lull in the international coverage like the calm before the storm...

But I could be wrong of course. ;)

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The pilot's death, preliminarily ruled a suicide, has reopened claims about his possible role in the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over eastern Ukraine in the summer of 2014.

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Ukrainian pilot Vladislav Voloshin, whom his colleague Yevgeny Agapov accused of involvement in the shooting down of Boeing 777 flight MH17, has committed suicide in Nikolaev.

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The monument is called "The Connection".

Near an airbase in the Dutch city of Eindhoven, a monument to the victims of the MH17 crash was opened March 24. The sculpture titled "The Connection" consists of bronze ribbons, forming a globe, with the inscription: "I will not forget you", forming a globe, according to a local media outlet Omroep Brabant. The publication notes that such ribbons were given to the families who lost their loved ones. At the pedestal of the monument, 298 stones are laid, symbolizing the victims of the disaster. "The tragedy of MH 17 united us! We will always remember and do everything to bring those responsible to justice!" the Ukrainian Embassy in the Netherlands wrote on Twitter.

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UKR Embassy in NLD
✔
@UKRinNLD

Unveiling of the Connection memorial in Eindhoven. The tragedy of MH 17 united us! We will always remember and do everything to bring those responsible to justice!
2:45 AM - Mar 25, 2018

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voyageur said:

The monument is called "The Connection".

Near an airbase in the Dutch city of Eindhoven, a monument to the victims of the MH17 crash was opened March 24. The sculpture titled "The Connection" consists of bronze ribbons, forming a globe, with the inscription: "I will not forget you", forming a globe, according to a local media outlet Omroep Brabant. The publication notes that such ribbons were given to the families who lost their loved ones. At the pedestal of the monument, 298 stones are laid, symbolizing the victims of the disaster. "The tragedy of MH 17 united us! We will always remember and do everything to bring those responsible to justice!" the Ukrainian Embassy in the Netherlands wrote on Twitter.

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Dutch expel Russian diplomats over Skripal poisoning; MH17 survivors feel ignored

By Janene Pieters on March 27, 2018 - 07:48

The Netherlands is deporting two Russian diplomats to show solidarity with the United Kingdom following a poison gas attack on ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter in England. Relatives of people who died in the MH17 disaster are upset that the Dutch government is doing so now, but did not send Russian diplomats away after the Malaysia airlines flight was shot down.

Despite there being no "clear evidence" that Russia was behind the poison gas attack, it is important that Western countries show solidarity with the British, Minister Stef Blok of Foreign Affairs said, according to NOS. "As the Netherlands, we align ourselves with the great probability that England upholds." A clear message should be sent to Russia. "Namely: cooperate with the investigation and provide clarity so that the perpetrators can be found and tried. This signal is needed to get the truth on the table", Blok said.

The Netherlands is expelling two intelligence officers who work at the Russian embassy in The Hague.

On Twitter foundation Vliegramp MH17, which represents the relatives of those who died in the MH17 disaster in 2014, asks for an explanation about why the Netherlands now decided to deport Russian diplomats. "Can someone explain to us why diplomats are now massively expelled after an attack by the Russian Federation on two Russians and not one expulsion after an attack on 298 civilians, in which the Russian federations seems to be involved?" the foundation wrote.

"We find that difficult to understand. Anyone who can explain that to us is welcome", Piet Ploeg, speaking on behalf of the foundation and relatives, added to RTL Nieuws. He points out that investigations into the MH17 disaster showed that the plane was shot down over eastern Ukraine on 17 July 2014 with a Russian BUK missile system, fired from a field controlled by Pro-Russian separatists. "So there seems to be Russian involvement." While Russian involvement has not yet been demonstrated in the poison gas attack, he said. "There has been no lawsuit, nothing."

According to Prime Minister Mark Rutte, the two cases can't be compared. The Netherlands must be neutral in the MH17 case, because otherwise the investigation will be discredited, he said according to RTL Nieuws. "If we point the finger to one country, then the chances decrease that we will ever get the perpetrators to court", Rutte said. "If the Public Prosecutor says: do A or do B, we will do it. But we can not do it ourselves, because then we will damage the investigation."

Blok said something similar, according to NOS. He understands that relatives make the comparison, but emphasizes that the situation around MH17 is different. "The Dutch Public Prosecutor is currently conducting investigation into finding the perpetrators and getting them to court. It is in the interest of the investigation that the Public Prosecutor is given room, it will not help if I take measures now."

A total of 18 countries expelled Russian diplomats in the aftermath of the poison gas attack - 14 EU member states, the United States, Canada, Ukraine, and Sweden. Last week Great Britain deported 23 Russian diplomats. Russia responded by expelling 23 British diplomats. The Russian government announced that it will repay action in kind. "It is not very surprising that Russia reacts strongly", Blok said. He takes into account that Russia will deport two Dutch diplomats.

According to Blok, the relationship between the West and Russia is already difficult, and this will not make things easier. "But actions from the Russian side make it inevitable that we, from the Dutch and from the European side, must show that there are lines that can not be crossed." According to the Minister, it is absolutely not the intention to start a new Cold War. "It is understandable that this comparison is drawn, but you have to judge every time and every complicated conflict on its own merits."

Sergei Skripal is a former Russian military intelligence officer who acted as a double agent for the U.K.'s intelligence services in the 90's and early 2000's. The attack on Skripal and his daughter Julia happened in a shopping center in Salisbury on March 4th. They were severely injured but survived the attack, according to the Guardian. A number of police officers who responded to the scene first were also injured. Nerve gas novichok was used in the attack. The gas was developed by the Soviet Union in the 70's and 80's, according to NOS. Russian president Vladimir Putin denies any involvement in the attack.

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April 3, 2018

The missile that Dutch investigators say brought down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was not picked up by Russian radar monitors because it flew too fast, experts have concluded.

Two independent radar specialists studied Russian radar pictures from July 17, 2014, the night the passenger airliner was shot down over Ukraine. Russia says the absence of any missiles in the images supports its argument that the plane was not shot down from territory held by pro-separatist forces.

Jirko Patist, spokesman for the Dutch prosecution service, said the type of radar used by the Russians filtered out high-speed objects (in Dutch). The type of Buk missile implicated in the shooting down of MH17 flies three times as fast as a passenger jet.

The two experts, who were called in by the Joint Investigation Team on the disaster, had confirmed this version of events, said Patist. ‘If you look at all the evidence our conclusion stands that the Buk missile was fired from the site we identified in 2016.’

Patist said the experts had also discounted alternative scenarios put forward by Russia, such as the suggestion that MH17 could have been shot down by a fighter plane. No other aircraft were detected in the vicinity of the airliner at the time the missile was fired, they concluded.

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The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) that is investigating the culprits behind the MH17 disaster, will give an update on the current state of the investigation during a special press conference at 11:00 a.m. on May 24th, RTL Nieuws reports.

During the press conference, the JIT will also call on the public's help to answer a number of questions. The investigators emphasize that no announcements will be made about possible suspects.

continued...

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An open letter to the Russian people
from the families of the victims in
downing of MH17

The World Cup is in Russia - how do we respond ?

Политика 20:42 22 мая 2018

In June the world will turn its eyes toward Russia for the Football World Cup. It will be a long awaited and joyous event. For most Russians it will also be an occasion of deep national pride.

Some of us who write these words are passionate followers of football, others are not. But none of us will be able to share in this World Cup in the way we would have done before. We have something in common that gives this event and the place in which it is held, a different, darker meaning.

On July 17, 2014 Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. Two hundred and ninety eight people were killed. Among the bodies lying among the debris and fields of sunflowers were our children, our partners, our brothers and sisters, our parents.

The impact on our lives

Despite it being nearly four years since our lives were shattered, we struggle to comprehend what happened. The people we love were killed in a war, a war in which they were not combatants, a war they had nothing to do with. We know they are not the only victims of this confrontation. More than 10, 000 people have been killed, the majority of them civilians. Their families are grieving like ours, not understanding why the people they love have been snatched from them. It is the finality of death that is so painful. We could live with a separation, even of years, if we knew it had an end.

We, as families of those killed on MH17, are still breathing, but the lives we had also came to a close that day. We are not the same people we were before. The world we live in is darker and less hopeful. We have struggled to maintain faith in human goodness. It may be that some of us will find some sense of purpose and happiness again. But we will always be marked by the brutal and sudden death of those we love.

Even more though, this callous act has defined the people we love. Their stories, which should have gone on, have come to an abrupt stop. We now cannot experience them, we can only remember them. Part of our remembering must be to speak of the wrongfulness of their deaths and urging that those responsible for this crime are called to account. The people we love can no longer speak for themselves.

We know there is a long history between Russia and Ukraine and there are different perspectives on what led to conflict erupting in 2014. No nation state is blameless, including our own. All nations have a right to flourish as best they can, without impeding or violating the rights of others. All parties must be prepared to face what part they have played in the conflict. But whatever the history and exact circumstances, that can never justify the shooting down of a passenger plane and the killing of all those on board. How do we respond to that?

Questions of hate and responsibility

Like all who have suffered the violent death of people we love, we are tempted to respond with hate. But we have to separate ordinary Russian people from the individuals responsible - the chain of command that led to the shooting down of MH17. Most of us don’t know Russian people well. Hate and distrust come partly from ignorance and when we know more of a person’s story, that can change how we see things. We know that the Russian people have a right to thrive, as did our loved ones. Still, we struggle. If we are able to change it will take time. But we know that giving in to hatred and bitterness would consume us and, unchecked among the nations, it will destroy human life on this planet.

It is easier when we remember we are all human beings and what we have in common. Some of us saw the faces of Russian families after Metrojet Flight 9268 was bombed and crashed over Egypt in October 2015, killing all 224 people on board. They were overwhelmed with grief, struggling to comprehend what had happened. We understand that disbelief, the horror of your loved one’s lives being taken violently and without warning. If ever we met those families perhaps we could start a conversation, for we would already know a central truth about each others lives.

No, we do not blame the Russian people for what happened. We are not against you. We hold the Russian state and its leaders as ultimately responsible for the deaths of our family members. All the credible evidence points in that direction. It has already been a long wait for us, but sometime in the future the five nation Joint Investigation Team will deliver its final report and people will be named. Then it will be up to the appointed court in the Netherlands to carefully weigh the evidence and reach a conclusion about which individuals were responsible.

The importance of truth

We have confidence in the thoroughness and impartiality of the work conducted by the Joint Investigation Team. The same cannot be said about the reporting on MH17 coming out of Russian state media channels. In the first months some of us were troubled by the multiple, often contradictory stories about what happened to MH17 coming out of Russia. “MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian jet.” “It was blown up by a missile intended for the Russian President’s plane.” “It was already full of dead bodies and deliberately crashed.” “It was shot down by a BUK missile but not one of Russia’s.” These shocking, disturbing and contradictory stories were then magnified 1000 fold in posts on different social media. All this material was distressing. Some of us had doubts. It is only later that we came to understand that this was exactly what was intended. These practices are part of a coordinated state campaign of misinformation intended to distract and confuse, to create an alternative reality in which all truth is relative and no information can be trusted. The Russian state media, as well as private media channels that cooperate with the state, are complicit in this vile and deceitful campaign. We know that all countries, including our own, bend the truth and tell lies sometimes. But do Russian people really want to live in a country where the truth has ceased to exist? Perhaps some of you reading this already think that we do not exist and that this article is made up?

Well, we are real, and our hope is that ultimately truth will prevail.

We appeal again for the Russian government to cooperate fully with the international investigation into MH17. It will not bring our families back but the truth does matter, the truth does exist and we want those responsible for MH17 to be identified and held accountable. We teach our children when they are small that they must own up to their mistakes and take responsibility for their actions. We want our governments to do the same. We ask Russia to do the same.

Shared humanity

In recent months world tensions have increased. In an atmosphere of hostility and distrust we need international systems based on the rule of law, where each has confidence that justice and fairness is at least possible. We also need to recover our sense of shared humanity. Ultimately, we are all in this together on this one, small, blue planet.

In 2014 our children and families lay lifeless amidst the fields and sunflowers of Eastern Ukraine. In 2015 Russian children and families lay lifeless on the stones and sand of the Egyptian desert. In death we are not so different. Barriers of language, culture, differences in race or religion no longer matter. What remains is loss and love. Human loss and love.

This World Cup

All this is in our minds and hearts as we contemplate this World Cup in Russia. Football is called the world game. More nations play this game than any other. At its best football can mirror what is admirable about us all - our distinct styles of play, our culture, our singing and dress, our obvious passion or our steely discipline, our skill, courage and creativity, the sheer joy of play, the desire to strive and be tested to our utmost, and the respect we give those with whom we compete.

At its worst football can mirror the ugliness of which we are also capable. It can descend into a closed minded and aggressive nationalism, reinforcing divisions and prejudices, opening old wounds and inflicting new ones.

The football World Cup can be a celebration of our shared humanity. It can be an example, however fleeting, of our capacity to live with each other in peace. If it is that, then we might be better able to lift our heads to watch.

May this World Cup be played in a good spirit. We hope that it is a success and something in which ordinary Russian people can take pleasure and pride. But we cannot deny that from our perspective, a shadow hangs over this event. We are painfully aware of the dark irony that the Russian leaders who will profess to welcome the world with open arms, are those who are chiefly to blame for shattering our world. And that it is these same leaders who have persistently sought to hide the truth, and who have evaded responsibility ever since that dreadful day in July 2014.

Signed

Jon and Meryn O’Brien (Jack O’Brien aged 25) Australia

Jeremy and Louise Pocock (Ben Pocock aged 20) The United Kingdom

Rob Fredriksz and Silene Fredriksz-Hoogzand (Bryce Fredriksz aged 23 and Daisy Oehlers aged 20), The Netherlands

Joanna Anderson (Stephen Anderson aged 44) The United Kingdom

Claudio Villaca-Vanetta (Glenn R. Thomas aged 49) The United Kingdom

Hans de Borst (Elsemiek de Borst aged 17) The Netherlands

Paul Guard (Roger Guard aged 67 and Jill Guard aged 62) Australia

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The international team investigating the downing of flight MH17 in July 2014, said on Thursday the Buk missile which shot down the passenger plane originated from a unit of the Russian army from Kursk in Russia. - Link

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