Author Topic: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election  (Read 45033 times)

Offline Heather

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #780 on: January 11, 2017, 08:24:29 PM »
I don't even know how to express how much is wrong with statements and discussions like that one.
You're not alone.  It's very difficult to even know where to begin.  A good debate (let's call it) does at the very least require some sort of agreed upon context in which to have a discussion.  Without it, one feels to be upstream without a paddle.

It's a helpless feeling.

Online happyliza

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #781 on: January 11, 2017, 09:10:53 PM »
I just listened to the whole of the Trump Press conference on RT. I must say I was very impressed - especially to the lengths that he is going to distance himself from his companies. Also his reasoning behind most of his choices and decisions so far makes a lot of sound sense to me.

Certainly I got the feeling of a breath of fresh air that is so sorely needed to try to sweep the slate clean - clean the swamp.

So it is absolutely no surprise the psychos are all grabbing at straws because hopefully he is well on their case - and they know their days, of free corrupt reign,  are numbered.

He sure is not hanging about.  I just pray he has good protection. (Perhaps he should carry one of our crystals :-)).

Well it sure is going to be a looooong 9 days!  The disgusting antics have been bad enough. But the C's have a good track record and I don't think we have seen whatever it is that they were implying yet. :-(


Plus on top of this we have our Cyprus Geneva meetings talking place - supposedly culminating tomorrow - though Erdogan's latest determined internal power grab for himself - politically - could well derail things. (though there is still an impossible number of disagreements pending).

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Offline NormaRegula

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #782 on: January 11, 2017, 09:36:27 PM »
NBC is now reporting that some Intel Agencies are attempting to cover their posteriors with a very lame excuse: _http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/11/nbc-intel-official-trump-allegations-are-unvetted-disinformation-video/#ixzz4VTSM8eUM

From the Daily Caller article:

Quote
...NBC News correspondent Cynthia McFadden reported Wednesday that President-elect Trump was never briefed on a “two-page addendum” alleging that the Russian government has damaging information on Trump.

In fact, McFadden further stated that the brief — published by BuzzFeed on Tuesday — was in fact an example of “what [U.S. intelligence officials] are calling ‘unvetted disinformation,'” designed to help Trump distinguish between “analyzed intelligence” and unverified reports.

“A senior U.S. intelligence official who was involved in the preparation for the meeting tells NBC that the president-elect was not briefed on this so-called two-page addendum of these allegations against him,” McFadden state. “It was part of the briefing materials available to the briefers, but it was not included because they believed it to be true. It was included for a different reason.”

“It was included should they feel they needed to explain to Mr. Trump the difference between analyzed intelligence and what they are calling ‘unvetted disinformation,'” she continued. “It was available for that purpose, and it never came up. Importantly, documents were never presented to Mr. Trump or his team.”

That's the ticket - They were just trying to see if PEOTUS Trump could tell the difference between intelligence and "unvetted disinformation".

You can't make this stuff up. Oh, wait, yeah, you can!  :lol:
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Offline Horseofadiffer​entcolor

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #783 on: January 11, 2017, 09:42:42 PM »
 In Trumps live speech today at the end of it the cameras were still rolling and you could hear the CNN journalist freaking out yelling "hey, Paul did you hear that he just attacked us, did you hear that he just attacked us!"
  Trump had told him not to be rude speaking over the next question and told him that they were fake news. :rotfl: :lol2:

Offline NormaRegula

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #784 on: January 11, 2017, 09:55:36 PM »
In Trumps live speech today at the end of it the cameras were still rolling and you could hear the CNN journalist freaking out yelling "hey, Paul did you hear that he just attacked us, did you hear that he just attacked us!"
  Trump had told him not to be rude speaking over the next question and told him that they were fake news. :rotfl: :lol2:

Listened to that part of the news conference while I was working away from the TV. Thought I also heard applause after Trump's verbal take-down as the CCN guy was being rude and not letting another colleague from a different news organization speak. I'm sure there will be a YouTube clip soon.  :D
"War, under any circumstance, is not a 'core value' of humanity; in fact, it is the ultimate failure of humanity." - Cindy Sheehan

"Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood" - Marie Curie

Offline RedFox

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #785 on: January 11, 2017, 10:23:48 PM »
"there are things and aims and goals available to us, that we do not dream of even in our most courageous dreams."
I mean personal goals here. Often we are afraid to set an aim for ourselves because, in the moment, we cannot
imagine a way to reach it. I think that is a mistake. Let us set goals for ourselves, and no matter how ambitious they are, let us trust that sooner or later, if we persevere, the path itself will emerge.

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Online c.a.

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #786 on: January 11, 2017, 10:45:24 PM »
CNN cherry pick's press conference speech about hacking.  That's what Psychopath's do, Retaliate. ( Disfo-video's)
Trump: 'I think it was Russia Updated 2041 GMT (0441 HKT) January 11, 2017
_http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/11/politics/donald-trump-press-conference-highlights/index.html
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/23zKmkVmlHk/maxresdefault.jpg
Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

Trump shuts down CNN reporter

CNN: Why Trump's 'fake news' claim is wrong
Trump: Intel report is all 'fake news'

CNN reporter: Spicer threatened to kick me out
President-elect Donald Trump speaks during a news conference in the lobby of Trump Tower in New York, Wednesday, January 11, 2017.

Trump on hacking DNC: I think it was Russia
Trump: People don't care about my tax returns

Trump: Pence getting approvals for wall

President-elect Donald Trump speaks during a news conference in the lobby of Trump Tower in New York, Wednesday, January 11, 2017.
Trump describes Obamacare plan

Spicer: Russia-Trump report is disgraceful

Trump: I will turn business over to my sons
NEW YORK, NY - JANUARY 11: President-elect Donald Trump speaks at a news cenference at Trump Tower on January 11, 2017 in New York City. This is Trump's first official news conference since the

November elections. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
Trump's first presser as President-elect

Trump Acosta split
Trump shuts down CNN reporter

CNN: Why Trump's 'fake news' claim is wrong
Trump: Intel report is all 'fake news'

CNN reporter: Spicer threatened to kick me out

Young Turks On the Anti-Trump band wagon


Do The Russians Have Dirt On Trump?
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV0SJo8Z0Cw

Trump Admits Russia Meddled In Election
The Young Turks
1 day ago (91,596 views, of Lost Souls)

« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:47:29 PM by c.a. »
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Offline Hello H2O

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #787 on: January 11, 2017, 11:34:24 PM »
In Trumps live speech today at the end of it the cameras were still rolling and you could hear the CNN journalist freaking out yelling "hey, Paul did you hear that he just attacked us, did you hear that he just attacked us!"
  Trump had told him not to be rude speaking over the next question and told him that they were fake news. :rotfl: :lol2:

Listened to that part of the news conference while I was working away from the TV. Thought I also heard applause after Trump's verbal take-down as the CCN guy was being rude and not letting another colleague from a different news organization speak. I'm sure there will be a YouTube clip soon.  :D

Yeah that was kind of the highlight, (or lowlight) of the press conference. That guy was super rude and would not shut up. Even though he was allowed to ask many questions. When Trump was finished and walking off he was still yelling questions, then was heard to say on open mics, 'well he attacked our organization'. Pretty sick little display there.

I am evermore impressed with Trump, how together and composed he is, and quick on his feet. He has been under withering pressure from the PTB, and came out super positive with a positive message. But also was very tough when discussing how the intelligence community has disgraced itself releasing unsubstantiated intel against him. Still see rocky times ahead though. Big powers involved.

Offline bjorn

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #788 on: January 12, 2017, 12:41:25 AM »
Quote from:  Hello H2O
Yeah that was kind of the highlight, (or lowlight) of the press conference. That guy was super rude and would not shut up. Even though he was allowed to ask many questions. When Trump was finished and walking off he was still yelling questions, then was heard to say on open mics, 'well he attacked our organization'. Pretty sick little display there.

I love it how every MSM journalists out there is picking sides with the Establishment in such an obvious manner. Trump really knows how to set the place on fire. He even made a bunch of them cry. Their snowflake reality is in full meltdown.

That said, the MSM is now using the word treason against Trump. It seems that their softcoup is far from over. If the PTB succeed and places Killary as president. It wouldn't suprise me if we civil war comes with it. Hopefully the military will side with Trump.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 12:50:07 AM by bjorn »

Offline Flashgordonv

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #789 on: January 12, 2017, 04:56:22 AM »
Just spent 10 minutes scanning Twitter.  Geezus!  It really is getting ugly.  That Soros gang is as relentless against Trump as the Vinnie Bridges gang was against me/us.  Different scale, but same flavor.  It's becoming more and more evident every day that the lefty screamers are a small group of very pathological individuals.  The whole situation maps pretty well to what we know about psychopaths and their influence on other deficient individuals as well as on normies who are insufficiently educated/aware.

The Cs were certainly right about the next 40 days.  My god.

The saker points out in the article Nickelblue quoted above that in his opinion this is a coup attempt.  it has clearly failed.  Really makes me wonder whether there will be an assassination attempt.  These neocon crazies are so desperate for Trump not to gain power.  I suspect Trump is aware of the possibility and that is one reason he is keeping his own security people to "supplement" the Secret Service.  It was pretty clear that in the JFK incident, members of the SS were complicit in the event so having his own people gives him something of a safety net.  And there have also been a couple of people suggesting that Trump could be a JFK type president, Kissinger for one if memory serves me well.  I see that as a warning to Trump.
"When the truth is replaced by silence, the silence is a lie."  Soviet dissident Yevtushenko

Offline angelburst29

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #790 on: January 12, 2017, 05:24:30 AM »
Softcore porn magazine Penthouse has tweeted an offer of $1 million for exclusive rights to any video recordings of Donald Trump’s alleged “golden showers” from the false report released by Buzzfeed and CNN on Tuesday evening.

Penthouse Offers $1 Million for Trump Golden Shower Video
https://sputniknews.com/us/201701121049500524-penthouse-offers-million-trump-golden-shower/

The intelligence report regarding the secret dossier, which the President-elect labeled “phony, fake news,” claims that there was a video of the urine party filmed by Russian intelligence agencies, although there is no evidence to support that any recording exists.

“Trump‘s (perverted) conduct in Moscow included hiring the presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton Hotel, where he knew President and Mrs. Obama (who he hated) had stayed on one of their official trips to Russia, and defiling the bed where they had slept by employing a number of prostitutes to perform a ‘golden showers’ (urination) show in front of him. The hotel was known to be under FSB control with microphones and concealed cameras in all the main rooms to record anything they wanted to,” the report boldly claims.

Not letting the fact that there is zero evidence that the report is true get in the way of a fun story, Penthouse is still hoping to get their hands on a leak of the ‘leaks.’ “We, along with the rest of the free world, are intrigued by the report alleging President-Elect Donald Trump employed sex workers to perform a ‘golden showers’ show in the presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton hotel in Moscow,” Penthouse told The Wrap.

Penthouse did throw some shade at the media outlets who reported on the story without proving it to be true, however.

“However, while many media outlets are content running a story based on conjecture and rumor, we at Penthouse are committed to the value of getting the story right rather than getting it first. So we are offering up to $1-million to secure exclusive rights to the FSB tapes documenting Trump’s Russian hotel hijinks. After all, seeing is believing.” The men’s magazine added that they support people celebrating their kinks, but if a video recording exists, people have a right to see it. “Penthouse Magazine has a rich history of celebrating people’s differences, fetishes and sexual preferences. We have also made great steps educating the public on the difference in having wild kinky fun versus engaging in risky or damaging behavior. We are comfortable giving our president-elect the benefit of the doubt, but if this footage exists, we the people deserve to know the truth.”


Quote
Donald Trump welcomed the Kremlin's confirmation that the report about Moscow's alleged compromising materials about the US president-elect is a hoax.

Trump Respects Putin's Gesture for Affirming CNN-BuzzFeed Report is Hoax
https://sputniknews.com/us/201701111049493303-trump-russia-putin-cnn-buzzfeed/

Moscow’s confirmation that the controversial report published by BuzzFeed and CNN about Russia having a dossier of allegedly compromising information on the incoming US president is fake news is a commendable gesture, Donald Trump said in a press conference in New York City on Wednesday.

"I respect the fact that Putin said that the report was fake news," Trump told reporters.


Quote
Around 1:30 pm EST a blaze at the Watergate building in Washington's Foggy Bottom neighborhood was reported.

Infamous Watergate Complex Catches Fire In Washington DC (PHOTOS)
https://sputniknews.com/us/201701111049496549-flames-ablaze-hub-watergate-complex/

The Washington DC Fire Department is currently on the scene to address the situation. Witnesses said the fire appeared to start on the balcony. Authorities reportedly have contained the immediate threat.

The building overlooks the famous Potomac River slicing through the nation's capital.

In the 1970s, the complex gained acclaim as the site of a scandal featuring then President Richard Nixon.

​The Democratic National Committee once held offices within the five-building complex, specifically at the Watergate Hotel.

​Nixon used his power as president to try covering up a break-in of the party's headquarters. He eventually became the only US president to resign from office in 1974 and his legacy has been scarred by the incident despite garnering success in some policy arenas.
 

Quote
Outgoing US President Barack Obama may be kept out of an elite golf club due to his political skirmishes with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Obama’s Clash With Israeli Leadership May Cost Him Golf Club Membership
https://sputniknews.com/us/201701111049496972-obama-maybe-denied-club-membership/

Obama has expressed interest in joining the Woodmont Country Club in Rockville, Maryland, whose membership is primarily Jewish and Republican. Some club members reportedly seek to deny him admission, after he did not block a recent vote by the United Nations to end Israeli settlements in Palestine.

After Obama’s refusal to veto the UN vote, US Secretary of State John Kerry made a candid speech in which he suggested that a two-state solution was the “only way to achieve a just and lasting peace for Israelis and Palestinians.” Many in the Jewish community interpreted his comments as anti-Israel.

"The vote in the United Nations was about preserving the two-state solution," Kerry remarked. "That’s what we were standing up for: Israel’s future as a Jewish and democratic state, living side by side in peace and security with its neighbors. That’s what we are trying to preserve for our sake and for theirs." Kerry refuted criticism that Washington’s reaction to the vote was disloyal, noting that the US is furnishing $38 billion in aid to Israel over the next ten years, more than any other administration.

One source told the New York Post, "In light of the votes at the UN and the Kerry speech and everything else, there’s this major uproar with having (Obama) part of the club, and a significant portion of the club has opposed offering him membership."

The membership of the first US African-American President is slated to begin after Inauguration Day, January 20. Typically a person joining Woodmont must pay an $80,000 initiation fee, as well as annual dues of $9,673, but Obama, as a former US President, would enjoy complimentary membership.


The Post quoted an unnamed official at a Washington Jewish organization saying, "Can you imagine how angry I would be if I had paid $80K to have to look at this guy who has done more to damage [to] Israel than any president in American history?"

Many of Woodmont’s members consider it a "home away from home," according to the club website. The exclusive facility features a grand ballroom, a fitness and health center, several restaurants and an olympic-sized pool.

Known as an avid golfer, Obama first hit the links at the club in 2015, accompanied by former Deputy Secretary of State Tom Nides, John Shulman, head of major private equity firm Capital Partners, and his aide Joe Paulson. Ronald Halber, executive director of Washington’s Jewish Community Relations Council remarked to Forward, "How cool is it that the first African American president of the United States may well be joining a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else?"

Woodmont CEO and general manager Brian Pizzimenti stated, "We’d be honored to have the president at the club as a member."

Online c.a.

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #791 on: January 12, 2017, 07:46:52 AM »

https://youtu.be/XGE73d9ztV4

Juanita Broaddrick Takes On Meryl Streep, Hollywood For Not Learning Their Lesson
_http://www.westernjournalism.com/juanita-broaddrick-takes-on-meryl-streep-and-hollywood-for-not-learning-their-lesson/
https://icecream.me/uploads/e2b3eda7e5521ad1b9df3ed7d852995d.png
Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election

_https://twitter.com/atensnut/status/818458363348611077

What I Learned From the Intelligence Report on "Russian Hacking"

https://youtu.be/0ecxu7EStgs

RT
‘It’s not how hacking works’: Anonymous activist deconstructs ODNI report on ‘Russia hackers’ Published time: 12 Jan, 2017 01:14
https://www.rt.com/news/373387-anonymous-odni-report-hacking/
Quote
“Hackers can either code their own tools to use, or download pre-compiled scripts that are readily available on any exploit database. If two teams download the same exploits and use them, then the attacks will appear to be the same, identical even,” Poucher, who has a degree in IT Security, said.
Snippet :
He went on to explain that while a person is actually in America, he or she can log into a VPN (Virtual Private Network) located in Russia and launch attacks from America.

“When this attack is investigated, it will appear that it originated from Russia,” he said.

Saying that the report “does not state conclusively anything,” it also demonstrates that the US intelligence officials “are still not really sure who hacked the DNC,” Poucher said.

Stuttering and stammering Nancy Pelosi and "The Gang of Eight"


Russian Hacking Report - Nancy Pelosi 1-11-17
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyoWEHFKB_s

Définitions de stutter
verbe
talk with continued involuntary repetition of sounds, especially initial consonants.
"the child was stuttering in fright"
synonymes: stammer, stumble, falter

Définitions de stammer
verbe
speak with sudden involuntary pauses and a tendency to repeat the initial letters of words.
"Michael O'Shea, who is over the McGuire Programme's Waterford support group, said the programme provided help and support to people with this speech problem by teaching them a technique that enables them to speak without stammering ."
synonymes: stutter, stumble over one's words, hesitate, falter, pause, halt, splutter
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 07:57:53 AM by c.a. »
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Offline Heather

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #792 on: January 12, 2017, 06:35:39 PM »
NBC is now reporting that some Intel Agencies are attempting to cover their posteriors with a very lame excuse: _http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/11/nbc-intel-official-trump-allegations-are-unvetted-disinformation-video/#ixzz4VTSM8eUM

From the Daily Caller article:

Quote
...NBC News correspondent Cynthia McFadden reported Wednesday that President-elect Trump was never briefed on a “two-page addendum” alleging that the Russian government has damaging information on Trump.

In fact, McFadden further stated that the brief — published by BuzzFeed on Tuesday — was in fact an example of “what [U.S. intelligence officials] are calling ‘unvetted disinformation,'” designed to help Trump distinguish between “analyzed intelligence” and unverified reports.

“A senior U.S. intelligence official who was involved in the preparation for the meeting tells NBC that the president-elect was not briefed on this so-called two-page addendum of these allegations against him,” McFadden state. “It was part of the briefing materials available to the briefers, but it was not included because they believed it to be true. It was included for a different reason.”

“It was included should they feel they needed to explain to Mr. Trump the difference between analyzed intelligence and what they are calling ‘unvetted disinformation,'” she continued. “It was available for that purpose, and it never came up. Importantly, documents were never presented to Mr. Trump or his team.”

That's the ticket - They were just trying to see if PEOTUS Trump could tell the difference between intelligence and "unvetted disinformation".

You can't make this stuff up. Oh, wait, yeah, you can!  :lol:

Wow. 

The inanity is utterly amazing at this point.  Of course, it's been going on for the longest time, but as things are playing out you really see the "make things up as you go along" MO with all this.

And, I mean, to have a president elect literally pointing his finger at the media and calling them fakes, well.. not that other presidents didn't feel betrayed/threatened by the press, but (even if the culprit here is CNN) this seems a more overarching indictment of mainstream media and the culture of lies it spawns as a whole:   

I'm sure there will be a YouTube clip soon.  :D


https://youtu.be/2CYasjjqHNw

So, maybe Dennis Young's prognostications are appropriate, then (should the president elect indeed make it to the White House):


"This election result can finally take on its true meaning... the unfettered flow of truth like the world has never seen... The fact that 9/11 was committed by the U.S. government is nothing compared to the information that will fall.   20th Century history will have to be completely re-written... so, uh, prepare to be shocked."

Offline Woodsman

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #793 on: January 12, 2017, 10:23:41 PM »
I watched the PBS coverage of Trump's first news conference as president elect last night.

I came away from that with my gut tied in knots and decided to sleep on it in an effort to sort out my reactions.  It's been a day, and this is what is on my mind:

So...  Trump and the Left agree that Russia hacked those blasted emails?

And, in an off-hand single sentence comment, he said that he didn't have a problem with Obama's punitive actions against Russia, ejecting diplomats.  Out of all the talk and speech giving, that, the agreement that Russia was involved in the hack appears to be the single bit of common ground between Trump and the democrat camp.  That hit me like a brick.

What the holy hell?

-Yes, he did make a solid effort to tone it down.  "And OTHERS," he said, focusing on the overall need to beef up cyber security.

But it still sent an ice shiver down my spine.

Because this, almost exactly this, has happened before...

Replace what in 1947 was no doubt an exotic, fear-laden word, “Communist” with today’s terminology; “Fake News” and “Hacker” and suddenly the events of the Truman years and the Communist witch hunt become sharply relevant again....


Quote
From “Loyalties - A Son’s Memoir” -Carl Bernstein
1989, Simon & Schuster


“They never showed anybody doing anything who was alleged to be a Communist.  They never showed him in a conspiratorial meeting, they never showed him dong something subversive.  It’s all manufactured.  I said that time and again.  When they say someone’s a Communist they never show him anywhere, they never show him doing anything.”

He wondered whether Charlie Murphy was still alive.  I said yes; I’d gone to the other surviving members of Truman’s inner circle and confirmed the information.  First I’d gone to Bob Donovan, who covered the Truman White House for the New York Herald Tribune and, in the 1970s, had written an authoritative account of the Truman years, a two-volume history.  Only six pages of which are devoted to the Loyalty Order, in Conflict and Crisis, the first volume-but they are on target: “The Order,” he wrote, “certainly produced some deplorable results for a Constitutional democracy.”

“It’s an amazing interview,” my father repeated now.

I showed him the text of another interview-with Joseph Rauh, the noted civil-liberties lawyer.  In it, Joe related how he and a group of insiders were sitting around the Oval Office with Truman after he had decided finally not to seek reelection, in 1951.

“Well, how’d I do, boys, how’d you grade me?” [Truman] apparently asked them. And according to Joe, they all gave him high marks, except on the Loyalty Order, which Joe brought up. He claims he told Truman that it was the worst thing he had done, that it had helped poison the atmosphere. Joe said Truman grimaced and said, “Yes, it was terrible.”

pg. 196

~~~~~~~~~

“Why didn’t he fire J. Edgar? He didn’t trust him, he didn’t like the way he operated. He could see enough of Hoover’s operation to know it wasn’t consistent with his own feelings of justice and fairness.... But J. Edgar was feeding information to Truman on his adversaries.”

He described the situation leading to Truman’s issuance of Executive Order 9835. “He was under enormous political pressures, and he was pushed into answering them.  The issue was built to the point where he couldn’t ignore it.

“We never had a serious discussion about the real loyalty problem,” he repeated. “The whole attitude in the White House was what you might call, ‘liberal.’” He paused. “It was a response to the temper of the times.”

pg. 199


~~~~

The key feature of the Loyalty Order was the creation by the Attorney General of a list of subversive organizations, membership in which (or association with, or even proximity to) was used by the loyalty boards to pass on an individual’s loyalty to the country - and thus an individual’s fitness to serve in the government.

“It allowed them to go into relationships, marriages, guilt by association, religious beliefs,” my father was saying. “By the creation of the list it gave the impression that the government could do damn near anything.”


pg. 202


~~~~~

I read aloud to my father Mark Geller’s comment that the order was intended to wipe out progressive forces.

“I like Clifford’s analysis a little better,” my father said. “I think it turned into something like Mark Geller described. I think it was a political motivation at the start.”

To save their own asses?

“That’s what Clifford is saying. If he had given some leadership, if the President had given some leadership, instead of coming up with this dreadful order, and said, ‘Look, let’s not panic about this’...”

It is his contention that the history of this country would have been different had Truman resisted.



pg. 201


~~~~~

Philip Murray of the CIO wrote to Truman asking that the order be repealed unless it could be made to comply with due process, using the absence of a definition of disloyalty and its lack of a guarantee that the accused person could confront his or her accusers and cross-examine witnesses. “Murray’s letter,” Robert Donovan writes in his biography of Truman, “raised the essential question, as important now as then: Are there to be democracy and constitutional freedoms at all times? Or in times of danger, real or imagined, must free expression and constitutional procedures be modified, thus subtly changing the system while trying to preserve it?”

“The order,” Truman replied to Phil Murray, “was carefully drawn with the idea in view that the Civil Rights of no one would be infringed upon and its administration will be carried out in that spirit.”


After thousands of lives were ruined by the loyalty board inquisitions and FBI hounding, (which began the official Russian sympathizer witch-hunt, was restricted to just looking at government employees, but which had the effect of springboarding the launch of Hoover's all-encompassing House Un-American Activities Committee, leading America through one of its scariest and darkest periods in history), clearly Truman's hopes and good intentions fell woefully short.

Quote

Clifford warned the President that Congress would probably object and insist that the FBI control the whole program.  On the bottom of the memo from Clifford, Truman jotted: “Clark, you have properly diagnosed the case. But J. Edgar will in all probability get this backward looking Congress to give him what he wants.  It’s dangerous. HST.”


Constitutional rights afforded to individuals and the awareness that it is Bad To Compromise them comes as hard-won experience to the American people.  It is still not guaranteed by any stretch, but some lessons have been learned in the past and people react today when they feel those same forces move.  However.., websites and bloggers and the public dissemination of news is today a much less well defined area of human existence.  It's very new.  So the same more-fixed belief that you can't just round up real people on vague suspicions does not, I think, translate well at this point to on-line personalities, twitters and news groups.  The answer to fake news and on-line garbage and hacking hasn't been properly found yet.  Will another witch hunt be forthcoming in order to learn that lesson?  And will it extend inevitably to real people?  Will the net result be the same?

People were actually executed during the Communist witch hunt period.  People forget that.

The one thing which stands out as significantly different between Trump and the Truman years was that Truman was coming up for re-election, whereas Trump is just starting out.  The pressure applied to Trump to acquiesce to the artificial fears of the Russia threat which are being pumped up in the public today is arguably less crucial to Trump’s status than they were to Truman.

That might put some water on the fire.

Will it be enough?


Offline m

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Re: Donald Trump wins 2016 US presidential election
« Reply #794 on: January 12, 2017, 10:51:23 PM »
I watched the PBS coverage of Trump's first news conference as president elect last night.

I came away from that with my gut tied in knots and decided to sleep on it in an effort to sort out my reactions.  It's been a day, and this is what is on my mind:

So...  Trump and the Left agree that Russia hacked those blasted emails?

And, in an off-hand single sentence comment, he said that he didn't have a problem with Obama's punitive actions against Russia, ejecting diplomats.  Out of all the talk and speech giving, that, the agreement that Russia was involved in the hack appears to be the single bit of common ground between Trump and the democrat camp.  That hit me like a brick.

In my perspective Trump is going to say a lot of stuff that he feels he has to say for various reasons and some of that stuff is just words. What he actually does may likely be different than what he says in some instances. In this case, on the one hand he says something about Russia hacking, on the other he says the USA needs to work with Russia and have a good relationship, which to me is about like saying "Ok you think they hacked then fine, they hacked, you happy now? Whatever. I'm gonna make friends with them." My read on that might be off, but that was my overall impression of that particular exchange.
"When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of Liberty quits the horizon." – Thomas Paine