Author Topic: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?  (Read 14535 times)

Offline Lost Spirit

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High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« on: January 25, 2014, 02:01:39 PM »
I have, according to the medical community, high blood pressure. In fact most of my (blood related) family does.

I used to takes drugs to lower it, but in a health kick a few years ago I stopped. I exercise (albeit only a little), eat paleo, take liposomal vitamin c, d, and when I remember to, hemp oil.

So, I have a reasonably healthy lifestyle I would say. Oh, I also smoke a pipe, so take from that what you will.

According to the statistics available, over a third of all adults in the US and nearly half of all Europeans have high blood pressure.

Uh, beg pardon? Doesn't that mean that nearly half of us should be dropping from strokes?

I see a couple of possible factors at work here:

1. Blood pressure limits are set at a level designed for optimal drug uptake.
2. Our lives are so stressful these days it's havering an adverse affect
3. The medical community is quite unwilling to explore alternative ways of reducing blood pressure (at least in my experience) rather than resorting to drugs, because frankly that's what they're taught and paid to do.

Now from a The Work perspective, one could argue that the anxiety produced by a population worried about their blood pressure, myself unfortunately counted among them, produces a delightful snack for those types of beings who feed on negative energy. That, more than anything, actually makes me angry.

Anyway, just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on the subject!
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Offline nicklebleu

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2014, 02:32:10 PM »
Lost Spirit,

A few remarks in regards to your post ...

How high is your "too high" blood pressure? I think that there is very little doubt that a high blood pressure is detrimental to your health, but I also think that most doctors treat high blood pressure without really looking at things. And I also agree that BP limits are set fairly low in order to maximise profit for big pharma.

To really know how your blood pressure behaves during the day I suggest you find a doctor who is willing to do a 24-h blood pressure monitoring. Because a lot of people have high blood pressures when they are measuring it - they don't want it to be high, so they "concentrate" and the blood pressure shoots up. Also it is a different thing if you have high blood pressure under stressful conditions but normal blood pressure aside from these. A 24-hour measurement can give you answers to that.

I used to have fairly high blood pressure readings myself, but these have completely normalised, since I first cut gluten and then went keto. At the start my BP was so low that I would get vertigo when getting up too quickly from a sitting position.

Then there are a few conditions that can create high BP readings that might be a good idea to investigate - they are fairly rare things but if you happen to have one of these conditions (kidney problems, adrenal problems, thyroid problems, some tumours) it would be worthwhile knowing. A knowledgable physician should be able to rule them out in one sitting. What you do with the information, if you happen to have one of these conditions is an entirely different kettle of fish - but I think you should cross that bridge when you come to it.

Stress is a major contributor to high BP, so a de-stressing program might do wonders - EE in particular! So regular pipe-breathing/ POTS and twice-weekly full EE sessions might fix the problem if it is a so called "essential hypertension" - high BP without an "apparent reason".

Smoking itself doesn't produce a high BP - not even in mainstream medicine (there it's considered another risk factor, amongst other things like high BP, for the development of heart disease), but I personally don't think that this is a major contributor).

As to exercise, this might be an area where you can improve. Exercise is an independent factor that reduces your risk of developing heart problems, even if your BP doesn't budge. The right type of exercise is crucial, though. Chronic cardio is absolutely not good for your body. What you need is a) eccentric resistance training (e.g. kettle bells, stretch bands, body-weight exercises), about 3 times per week and b) the occasional high-intensity interval training (e.g. Mercola's Peak 8, or a few cycles of the famous 7-minutes exercise), not more than every 7 - 10 days, but when you do it, you have to really give your best. And one session shouldn't last more than 20 - 30 minutes.

My view is that the vast majority of "essential hypertension" can be cured without resorting to any pharmaceutical agents. But as you correctly pointed out, most doctors are either to apathetic to find other ways or plain and simple too ignorant. It's very easy to prescribe antihypertensive medication, but much harder to look closely into life-style factors and other things. But the same is true for the vast majority of patients too - most of them just want to pop a pill and carry on with their life-style without putting some effort in to change that.

Not sure if that is of any help to you - but I'm sure others will chime in with more ...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 02:41:10 PM by nicklebleu »
Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

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Offline Emma

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2014, 02:48:11 PM »
Quote from: nickelbleu
How high is your "too high" blood pressure?

Yes. That is the first question came to my mind also.
Couple of month ago I went t o doctor just check up and she declared I have high blood pressure.
It was 138/78, or something like this.
20-30 years ago this was NOT considered high blood pressure, it was normal.
I checked online about blood pressure and I find this:


Blood Pressure Category
Systolic
mm Hg (top number)
 
Diastolic
mm Hg (bottom number)
Normal
Less than 120
and
Less than 80
Prehypertension
120-139
or
80-89
High Blood Pressure
(Hypertension) Stage I
140-159
or
90-99
High Blood Pressure
(Hypertension) Stage II
160 or higher
or
100 or higher
Hypertensive Crisis
180 or higher
or
110 or higher
Diagnosis

During a regular physical exam, a doctor uses a sphygmomanometer (blood pressure cuff) to check blood pressure. This common device should be familiar to you: it consists of a cuff that fastens around the upper arm and is attached to a bulb. The doctor inflates the cuff by squeezing the bulb. The doctor then releases the air from the cuff and listens with a stethoscope for the sound of blood passing through blood vessels. The pressure at which the sound is first heard is called systolic blood pressure. The pressure at which the doctor can no longer hear the sound is called diastolic blood pressure.

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Wikipedia:

Adults
Classification (JNC7)[1]    Systolic pressure    Diastolic pressure
mmHg    kPa    mmHg    kPa
Normal    90–119    12–15.9    60–79    8.0–10.5
High normal[52] or prehypertension    120–139    16.0–18.5    80–89    10.7–11.9
Stage 1 hypertension    140–159    18.7–21.2    90–99    12.0–13.2
Stage 2 hypertension    ≥160    ≥21.3    ≥100    ≥13.3
Isolated systolic
hypertension    ≥140    ≥18.7    <90    <12.0

In people aged 18 years or older hypertension is defined as a systolic and/or a diastolic blood pressure measurement consistently higher than an accepted normal value (currently 139 mmHg systolic, 89 mmHg diastolic: see table —Classification (JNC7)). Lower thresholds are used (135 mmHg systolic or 85 mmHg diastolic) if measurements are derived from 24-hour ambulatory or home monitoring.[48] Recent international hypertension guidelines have also created categories below the hypertensive range to indicate a continuum of risk with higher blood pressures in the normal range. JNC7 (2003)[1] uses the term prehypertension for blood pressure in the range 120-139 mmHg systolic and/or 80-89 mmHg diastolic, while ESH-ESC Guidelines (2007)[53] and BHS IV (2004)[54] use optimal, normal and high normal categories to subdivide pressures below 140 mmHg systolic and 90 mmHg diastolic. Hypertension is also sub-classified: JNC7 distinguishes hypertension stage I, hypertension stage II, and isolated systolic hypertension. Isolated systolic hypertension refers to elevated systolic pressure with normal diastolic pressure and is common in the elderly.[1] The ESH-ESC Guidelines (2007)[53] and BHS IV (2004),[54] additionally define a third stage (stage III hypertension) for people with systolic blood pressure exceeding 179 mmHg or a diastolic pressure over 109 mmHg. Hypertension is classified as "resistant" if medications do not reduce blood pressure to normal levels.[1]

Link:

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_blood_pressure

etc.
I even read a web-site for health-care professionals where they pushing it lower and lower: normal supposed to be between 90-120?
If I would have this low blood pressure I would collapse!
Looks like big pharma pushes to sell more drugs.
Of course I could be wrong and I welcome how others think about this.
Btw, I don't think HBP exist in people who eat paleo and do EE.

My two cents.  :cool2:
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Offline sbeaudry

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2014, 03:43:28 PM »
Also, BP typically corresponds to weight, so a smaller framed person has a lower blood pressure, typically, than someone with a large frame.  The simple reason for this is that the heart needs to create greater pressure to move blood effectively in a larger system.  120 over 80 is meant to be an average.  According to the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, the normal range for an adult between the ages of 19 and 60 is 90-140 systolic pressure. 


I even read a web-site for health-care professionals where they pushing it lower and lower: normal supposed to be between 90-120?
If I would have this low blood pressure I would collapse!
Looks like big pharma pushes to sell more drugs.
Of course I could be wrong and I welcome how others think about this.
Btw, I don't think HBP exist in people who eat paleo and do EE.

My two cents.  :cool2:

Strange that they would be considering moving it lower since the size of the population seems to be getting bigger.  :huh:  It could quite possibly be a means to sell more HBP meds.  There's a funny example in one of my chemistry textbooks about prescribing HBP meds, something along the lines of "a guy goes to his doctor and said doctor measures his BP and discovers its high.  Dr. prescribes X amount of HBP meds.  Patient comes in later for a checkup and the BP has not lowered significantly, so the Dr. needs to up the dosage."  No mention of diet changes or anything else, just straight to meds and, if that's not working, prescribe more! It's a bizarre world we live in.   :cool2:
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Offline waverider 9

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2014, 04:31:19 PM »
Hi All!

I have experienced the High Blood Pressure ruse myself with my last physician in New York City.  During my regular visits (once a month) for 20 years I always made sure that I left plenty of time (15 minutes or so) to have arrived in Manhattan, parked and usually walked to his office and enough time to sit and silently do "breathing exercises" (being a vocalist for years sort of had my own breathing technique so this is pre-C's introduction).

Then I would have the nurse take my BP.  It normally is quite low but not alarming and usually always the same exact numbers. 

Once I ran late, couldn't find parking right away, had hideous traffic in the Holland Tunnel and the Doctors office was in a townhouse in Greenwich Village with 20 steps to the front door.  BP was higher than my normal and everyone got alarmed - I told them to wait a few minutes - I did breathing exercise said "now take it" and the BP was back to normal.

At the same time I was on heavy Statin Drugs (Tri-Cor and Lipitor) for supposedly very high cholesterol - My diet (again pre-C's) was high in meat, fat almost no carbs and vegetables and light dairy.
My body type is Teutonic and I naturally have large dense bones and my height is 5'9".  So I have always been considered "overweight" and at this time I was for me anyway a bit heavy 245#.

My Cholesterol levels were chart toppers - every week , so I experimented with the fasting before blood tests - normally it would have been one whole day no food (24 hours).  I took it to four days no food - only water.  Still crazy numbers.  Since I visited every month for a long time - my experiment went on for over a year- my final fast was 2 weeks ( this was pretty easy since I do not get "hungry" and only eat once a day for 30+ years)  This time the doctor wanted to send me to the ER because my LDL number was pretty much off the charts.

Well, to shorted the saga - the next month, I immediately cut the statins cold turkey, ate normal meals for me including up to the test.

Next visit all cholesterol numbers were at "normal".

So I dropped the drugs and actually began to lose some weight (today I clock in around 160#) - every visit after that continued with same results.

The blood pressure thing from my understanding and perspective has always been controllable by my breathing.  I know that there are other issues that can cause high blood pressure and have a family history of Diabetes and Blood Pressure issues.  It always seemed to me that the medication has made my relatives maintain the high blood pressure.

Jeffery

Offline KingTiger

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2014, 06:36:11 PM »
As far as I understand, the blood pressure medication I am taking seem to help me with my high stress work life.
Last year, when my situation was very pressured and my job was coming to a forced end, I went to the doctors for a checkup.  My BP was 200/140.  The Dr. was very concerned and prescribed me two types of BP medication for this. 
Note that before I went to see him, I started the EE program, I think I may have worked given time, but I was already seeing the symptoms of my high blood pressure and had to have something done before I had a stroke.  I was getting nose bleeds all the time, had shortness of breath, could not sleep and extreme ringing sounds in my ears.  Also part of the prescription was Zoloft and Zanex.  I was really in bad shape and wanted to die.
A year latter, I think my the BP medication helped me.  I measured 120/80 on my last Dr.'s visit and since then, my crisis turned into opportunity.  I found work and I started to get on a better path in taking care of myself and applying techniques mentioned on this forum.
I would like to get off of the psychotropic drugs, but I always had a hard time since I been on these for over 25 years.
So some drugs may help people when needed, but I think there are always alternatives if one is careful and understand the body through gaining knowledge.

Offline trendsetter37

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2014, 12:51:17 AM »
I don't know if this helps but I use to have a high blood pressure about a year and a half ago. I was not overweight ( 135lbs ) @ 5'8''. So When I didn't fit the mold of someone that should struggle with high blood pressure they were a bit worried. My bp reading was around 138/88 If I can remember correctly.

But...I started being really strict (started maintaining ketosis and checked it with a blood meter) with my diet and did pipe breathing on the drive before work everyday. Also....I was coming off of being vegan. So having high blood pressure was a bit shocking at that point relative to what I thought I knew about food, however I began eating fat like it was my job as well as began smoking and now everytime I get it check it's around 118/70 with my hear rate being much lower than it normally is. Oh cholesterol came down as well!

So this issue could be complex and the causes can range from stress to diet. Even a combination of both. But I think that going the drug route isn't actually fixing the problem in my opinion.
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Offline CNS

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2014, 07:21:54 AM »
Hi all,

I would like to give you a nurse's perspective. Yes, high blood pressure can be deadly, if it is not addressed appropriately. I do think doctors generally throw prescriptions at the problem far too often, but sometimes in the short term, there may be a need for pharmaceutical intervention. Imagine squeezing the contents of a tube of toothpaste out the small hole; now imagine squeezing the same contents out of a larger hole cut by scissors...one would use much less energy doing so with less resistance. Not only is one at risk for stroke, but he is putting a lot of strain on his heart as well with high blood pressure. In the long term, he is enlarging his heart (cardiomegaly) and stretching the cardiac muscles to the point where they cannot contract to their fullest potential anymore. This is how the heart responds to greater after load, or resistance. After load is usually increased by constriction of the vessel or narrowing of the lumen (like a calcified pipe).

Now cardiomegaly is the result of years of hypertension, not an over night thing. And, the meds treat the symptoms, but do no treat the underlying cause. Nickelbleu is right that one must investigate further into the actual pathology of HTN, it could be physiological or it could be related to stress. Either way, it can usually be maintained via lifestyle change, diet, breathing, exercise, etc. 

Again, I do agree that doctors rely far too heavily on medication, when diet or lifestyle or another etiology is to blame. I feel that with moderation, some drugs can be beneficial (sometimes we do need them, and it's nice to have them in case of an emergency), but to not inquire into the root cause of a disorder is irresponsible. If the provider is not going to investigate, then it is the responsibility of the patient to learn as much as they can about their specific disease and find ways to cope with or even treat themselves. I would say that the Diet and Wellness threads on this forum are a good start! I certainly do not support the pathological actions of BigPharma, so lifestyle is our best defense and offense, IMO.  Thanks for posting on this issue and keep your head up Lost Spirit!

Offline nicklebleu

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2014, 07:46:50 AM »
If you need "nice BP numbers" for any reason - work-related checkup etc. - without wanting to go through the whole high BP process, there's a neat little trick that I use to quickly lower my BP reading: Do some quick breathing (hyperventilation) until you just slightly start to feel dizzy, but don't overdo it and don't do that while you are standing. This will instantly lower your BP reading. Do this while your doctor (or nurse) is getting ready to take your BP (you can do this stealthily without them being aware of this). This only takes about 20 seconds or so.

The mechanism behind is getting rid of some CO2 (which is a potent sympathetic activity enhancer), thus cutting off your sympathetic drive. Be aware though that this is just a "cosmetic" intervention and doesn't fix the underlying problem. But sometimes this can come in handy if you have to "put the doctor at ease" ...

The reverse is also true - if you "concentrate" on getting your BP lower you generally start to breathe slower, which will retain CO2, which in turn will increase sympathetic activity and consequently BP as well.

FWIW
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 07:51:10 AM by nicklebleu »
Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Ulysses - Tennyson

Offline CNS

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2014, 08:04:31 AM »
If you need "nice BP numbers" for any reason - work-related checkup etc. - without wanting to go through the whole high BP process, there's a neat little trick that I use to quickly lower my BP reading: Do some quick breathing (hyperventilation) until you just slightly start to feel dizzy, but don't overdo it and don't do that while you are standing. This will instantly lower your BP reading. Do this while your doctor (or nurse) is getting ready to take your BP (you can do this stealthily without them being aware of this). This only takes about 20 seconds or so.

The mechanism behind is getting rid of some CO2 (which is a potent sympathetic activity enhancer), thus cutting off your sympathetic drive. Be aware though that this is just a "cosmetic" intervention and doesn't fix the underlying problem. But sometimes this can come in handy if you have to "put the doctor at ease" ...

The reverse is also true - if you "concentrate" on getting your BP lower you generally start to breathe slower, which will retain CO2, which in turn will increase sympathetic activity and consequently BP as well.

FWIW

Thank you nicklebleu, I was not aware of the CO2/sympathetic correlation. I will have to research that more. One can also attempt the Valsalva Maneuver to lower BP or heart rate quickly. Purse the lips and exhale through the mouth while bearing down on the diaphragm and abdomen as if to defecate.  :whistle:  This stimulats the Vagus nerve, thus lowering HR and BP. --This should also be done while sitting down, and only as a temporary solution. 

Offline Emma

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2014, 10:20:03 PM »
If you need "nice BP numbers" for any reason - work-related checkup etc. - without wanting to go through the whole high BP process, there's a neat little trick that I use to quickly lower my BP reading: Do some quick breathing (hyperventilation) until you just slightly start to feel dizzy, but don't overdo it and don't do that while you are standing. This will instantly lower your BP reading. Do this while your doctor (or nurse) is getting ready to take your BP (you can do this stealthily without them being aware of this). This only takes about 20 seconds or so.

The mechanism behind is getting rid of some CO2 (which is a potent sympathetic activity enhancer), thus cutting off your sympathetic drive. Be aware though that this is just a "cosmetic" intervention and doesn't fix the underlying problem. But sometimes this can come in handy if you have to "put the doctor at ease" ...

The reverse is also true - if you "concentrate" on getting your BP lower you generally start to breathe slower, which will retain CO2, which in turn will increase sympathetic activity and consequently BP as well.

FWIW

Thank you nicklebleu, I was not aware of the CO2/sympathetic correlation. I will have to research that more. One can also attempt the Valsalva Maneuver to lower BP or heart rate quickly. Purse the lips and exhale through the mouth while bearing down on the diaphragm and abdomen as if to defecate.  :whistle:  This stimulats the Vagus nerve, thus lowering HR and BP. --This should also be done while sitting down, and only as a temporary solution.

Hi CNS!
Thank you for your input on this topic and when it comes the stimulation of the nervus vagus, Laura created a breathing program which we all on the forum practicing for relieve stress.
Here is the link:
http://eiriu-eolas.org/

It's pretty awesome! :thup:
Also we have threads about this and other health related issues.
Check out the diet section also and the recommended books.
Welcome to the forum! :)

Thanks for you guys for your take on this things and I agree sometimes we need medications but I highly recommend the EE program.
I know a forum member who started to doing it and didn't need BP meds anymore.
Plus diet of course! :flowers:
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Offline Emma

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2014, 10:32:51 PM »
Oh I almost forgot!
Here is the thread about the Eiriu Eolas (EE) breathing program:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,12837.0.html


Have a good read! :grad:
 
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Offline CNS

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2014, 03:23:14 AM »
Thank you anothermagyar, I have been reading that thread a little at a time and am going to put it to use. I work in a high stress invironment and could certainly benefit from EE.  :)

Now, the original question posed at the beginning of this thread was, "is high blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?", not necessarily how to solve it...the answer I believe is no. BigPharma surely capitalizes on patients, exploits them, and buys 100 foot (30 meter) yachts with the patient's hard earned money, but HTN can lead to dangerous results. With that said, there are plenty of inexpensive generic drugs on the market that one can ask their doctor to prescribe temporarily instead of name brands like Bystolic which was listed above. Bystolic belongs to a class of drugs which are called Beta-Blockers, and there are many in this class that are in the generic form...one must be cautious of side effects though as well.

Anyway, hope that helps.

Offline Lindenlea

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2014, 02:34:34 PM »
These last few months I have had my blood pressure taken a few times and it has been higher than It's ever been, which shocked me as previously my BP has always been fine (120/70 or 130/80 and combinatioms of those numbers) even throughout my pregnancy and 2 ear operations it never varied.

I was diagnosed with Glaucoma a few months ago and had medication drops (Xalatan) prescribed to arrest any further damage, which I use every night in each eye.  At the same time I also had a cateract ready for removal, which I did in June 2013, at that time I didn't think to ask the nurse what my BP reading was as I never have a problem and she didn't mention any problem. 

However on a follow up appointment a BP check was done and it was higher than it's ever been 138/88, I was concerned and couldn't understand why because I was doing quite well on the Paleo diet.  Fast forward to November when I was having my second cateract done and my BP was 151/100, this really gave me a fright, so I decided to keep an eye on it and had another check done at the local chemist a few weeks later, again it was the same as the previous one.

Next thing I checked out ways of naturally reducing BP, which was diet (ok, though Christmas was over the top with carbs), exercise (started doing more as I was getting lazy lately) and more EE (slacked off there a bit too), also stopped vitamin supplements for a week as I realised a few of them were blood thinners and thought this may have some bearing on the BP.  Next time I went to the chemist I had my BP and it was 136/90, which made me feel better but it is still not my normal reading.

I have since restarted a few vitamins, 1 multi, 1 high strength cod liver oil and magnesium citrate powder with vit C, so I'll give that a week or so and have another BP test.  Hopefully it will be a good result as BP medication is not a place I want to go.


Offline nicklebleu

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Re: High blood pressure a scam to sell drugs?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 01:42:22 AM »
Fast forward to November when I was having my second cateract done and my BP was 151/100, this really gave me a fright, so I decided to keep an eye on it and had another check done at the local chemist a few weeks later, again it was the same as the previous one.

BP readings before a procedure will almost always be high - even if you don't feel stressed, you body still will be stressed enough to drive your BP up. I wouldn't pay much attention to high BP readings around and a few days/ weeks after a procedure. It usually takes some time for the body to settle the stress it experienced during a procedure and the pain afterwards.

Next time I went to the chemist I had my BP and it was 136/90, which made me feel better but it is still not my normal reading.

That sounds like a perfectly acceptable BP reading to me - I would just follow it up in a while. I don't know if you are regularly doing the EE program, but that would certainly be something to consider, as it is a very effective tool to destress the body and the mind.
Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Ulysses - Tennyson