4-d dream experiences ...

[highmystica]

I only got a couple minutes - technically I should be in bed, but I want to read some stuff - it's funny that you brought up the de ja vu as a sort of infantile 4-d awareness, and though I do not think that's it the complete truth, being as there are probably several kinds of de ja vu, I have had dreams of lives after this one I'm living now ... but all that expresses an existance that is not so bound by either time or the constraints of physicality. Somewhere the C's mention that in 4-d our bodies are more like our "homes" ...

 

[ark]

If one can dream about the future, that pretty much confirms Quantum Theory.

You are making a serious error. It does not.

Now, I have a question for you, Neil: can you guess why I have labeled this error as serious?

 

[Neil]

Ark: Well, going back over my post, my conclusion that de ja vu confirms Quantum Theory has obvious and glaring holes. Even according to the linear time model, I guess you could supposively build a vehicle that accelerates time in either "direction." That would be one way of seriously circumventing that conclusion. One could simply be remembering things from the future, or traveling there inadvertantly. It is an effective counterexample to what I said. However, this counterexample has no grounds because it wasn't tested, it was an abstraction based on an observation, a conclusion with no proof, and I think this is where your "serious error" comes into play. I don't think you have an issue with my ideas per se, but the thought process behind them. By saying this, I have thrown the Scientific Method out the window and basically taken an opinion of an observation and stated it as fact. It was a severe lapse into subjectivity, contrary to what this forum stands for. If such a thing were allowed to pass, it could snowball and become little more than poorly constructed philosophy. As you have said, metaphysics needs to be confirmed by both mathematics/science as well as mysticism. Philosophy alone is very prone to error because it is not tested objectively. The serious error here is that I've missed the whole point by just stating what I think, and not proving what I know. You could even say such subjectivity detracts from the mission of the forum as a whole, as we are trying to understand the universe as it is and get rid of the "sacred cows." If we are committed to this, someone who thinks as I just did has no place on this forum, am I correct? And I think that you highlighted this for that very reason, I was more or less on autopilot, not really thinking about what I was saying, and perhaps just making "noise" by throwing out some idea without using my knowledge to truly try to understand it. Also, since I have only read a little bit of your work, I probably have no place making any conclusions in this arena anyway. I'm glad you pointed this out because it was somewhat subtle to me and I probably would've missed it. And that subtle error could have the profound consequences I just mentioned. I want to become a phycisist myself and I surely can't get there making idiot mistakes like this, so your message has proven all the better. Am I correct in my asessment, or am I missing the point?

 

[Neil]

Highmystica: When you have time, please answer the questions I wrote about last time, they are very important to me, also, I'd like to hear about some of these dreams with the "really strange ship" because I think they may have some relevance to my interplanetary dreams. I'd like a discription of the ship and a few of the places you went in it if you can remember...
Thanks.

 

[Ryan]

I want to become a phycisist myself and I surely can't get there making idiot mistakes like this,

Everyone makes mistakes. There is nothing wrong with that. How many physicists do you think got where they are without making any mistakes? Does the idea of making mistakes bother you?

 

[ark]

Ark: Well, going back over my post, my conclusion that de ja vu confirms Quantum Theory has obvious and glaring holes. [..] Am I correct in my asessment, or am I missing the point?

Well, I think you are missing something. Two things:

1) If you would have written: "Even if I know next to nothing about Quantum Theory (only from popular and college level books), it occurs to me that, perhaps, if one can dream about the future, that may, in a sense, confirm Quantum Theory... " then it would be more acceptable. Because this would indicate that you are humble, and being humble is a good way out of being ignorant and spreading ignorance.

2) But even then, there would be a fault in your logic. Why? Well, if you dream about unicorns (and some people do), does it confirm anything? Dreams are dreams, and there are numerous theories and mountains of research data and all kinds of theories about dreams, their origins, and their relation to reality. Did you study these data and these theories? How deep? So again we are coming back to the idea that it is good to stay humble, to avoid drawing fast conclusions about subjects that we know very little about.

There is nothing wrong with having a "hypothesis". In fact, creative researchers, when learning something new, form their "working hypotheses" right from the start, from the very first bits of the new data. But then, when they research more, when they learn more, they immediately and mercilessly discard their hypotheses and replace them with better ones. No pet hypotheses. No sacred cows! This method can be applied as well to our daily life, not only to science. What is important: when you have a hypothesis - call it a hypothesis and explain, to yourself and others, why you think it is a good one.

You wrote:

Also, since I have only read a little bit of your work, I probably have no place making any conclusions in this arena anyway.

But this is not about my work. My work is technical, it is based on works of many other physicists. Moreover, my conclusions are, with rather high probability, wrong. It is probably one of 999 attempts of inventing how not to invent the light bulb, before one that really works can come - if ever. So, my work is not important. But knowledge of the subject matter is important.

Finally, I have choosen just one quote from your posts. But, before doing it, I have read your other posts. So, what I selected is just one example of a general tendency that I was seeing. You may like to think of it.... ;)

 

[highmystica]

rubs eyes - sorry I was late getting on the computer tonight and am super sleepy and got a day tomorrow. I looked through this post earlier this afternoon but didn't have time to address my thoughts reagarding what ark said. I think the point ark was trying to point out was that since quantum theory is only a theory you cannot confirm it with anything short of empiracle quatitative data. Even then it would be questionable in that even a "law" in physics terms is not absolutley ture - it is only a "best-fit" working model. Let's say one had a prophetic dream and bothered to check the calender in this dream to find the day and time, and then on the prophesized day ant time this whatever happend - even if it is true it would still only be qualitative, and indeed would be of the greatest quality to the one that experienced it, though the relativity and quantum phisics allow for temporal distortions they don't explain them. To say an experience confirms them is flawed because if you were to explain it to someone else would it be explained for them? Could they do it after hearing about it? As it stands now, hummanities understand of mysticism and physics are simply incomplete - there is just so much more to learn and incorperate. But that's my thoughts on that just now, and if I've gone outside of were ark was going with what he said, well hey - I hope he has more to say on that, cause I always up for looking for new ways to look at a given subject. I have two sagas of dreams that go outside of life on earth, the one with the ship I brought up I think is metaphorical, though if I'm wrong then there are a few nice thinces in this universe. The ship itself reminded me of a squid, sure it had fixed parts and it was mostly the coloring of it and a vague sence of how it worked that made me think of a squid - hey I wasn't the engineer or the captain ...

 

[highmystica]

oh wow two people posted while I was making bagles - lol sorry ryan and ark

 

[Neil]

Ryan: Making mistakes does bother me. If I am going off in some unexplored territory, then perhaps it is acceptable. But this is not the case here and it makes me feel foolish and immature that I am not getting it. If I would've caught my mistake, I wouldn't feel so bad, but judging by what Ark said, I have not and this bothers me.

Ark: Well, the only thing I can say about this "general tedency" you mentioned, is that perhaps I am quick to come to conclusions about certain things. I guess you could say my comment about highmystica and I being the only ones here with this type of experience was unfounded. De ja vu being impossible by 3-d standards was another one. I was kinda choppy in explaining my dreams. However, I've done this because there is a lot of information and I'm trying to keep it down to a managable size. If you are talking about a trend developing over time, I have settled into more casual conversation, I guess that's bad. If you're referring specifically to my dreams, well, there is not much I can really say. That's what happened according to my perception and I have made it pretty clear that there is not one correct way of taking it, I tried to explain what happened without putting too much of a spin on it. No, I haven't gone into interpretation very much, and I may never know for sure. I confess I haven't studied interpretation deeply, and it is something else on a long list of things I need to do... So is this my problem, I'm too dismissive, don't know enough about what I'm talking about?

 

[the all-encompassing egg]

I understand what you mean in that I have always had strange and vivid dreams. I would wake up with the feeling of the dream 'sticking' to me and the mood of it would color my day. I would sometimes be in a sad/mad/anxious/happy mood all day because of my dream, although it was usually what most people would consider a 'negative' feeling that stuck. My dreams have always been strange, lots of weird places and often times I have visited the same 'worlds' over and over.

Really? What were these "worlds" like? This may sound a little crazy, but did your dreams try to lead you to believe that you were living an alternate life on another world? Did some of these dreams seem like mystical realms where you had unusual abilities? Did events in the dreams seem to carry over into the real world in some way? Did they inluence your decsisions in a way that brought you to greater sources of knowlege, like Cassiopaea? If so, I think I may know what the both of you are talking about. I don't know if they were 4-d or not, but they were quite unusual from the normal 3-d perspective. I've been trying to understand them for most of my short life here on Earth, and the Cassiopaean material has been very helpful, but I confess it has led to more questions than answers. Any similarities here?

I felt strongly connected to what was going on in each dream and the reverberations from the dreams would influence my mood in the waking life. Memories from a dream would jump out from my mind so vividly I was again filled with it's emotions. Sure I believe that some dreams have really made me think about the 'hidden' parts of a person, of the world and beyond, the hidden parts of myself (from myself). I believe in all possibilities. I would only be so honored to fully experience the things you are describing.