5D STS?

[The_Seeker]

Hello everyone :D

I have a potential question that I would prefer to discuss with everyone first before I call it a question.

I have been reading through Bringers of the Dawn and the L/L Reasearch (Law of One) stuff for a while now, it was actually the Wave series that sent me down this pathway. I came across something that was not congruent and I wanted to follow up regarding this, maybe see if someone else had the same question before me. Could not find anything in the forums though, so I thought I would bring it to the attention of the group.

I seem to remember a C saying there were no STS 5D entities, however in the research done by the L/L group with Ra it was stated that there are (however few) STS 5D beings. Ra described them as no longer even acknowledging/needing their other selves, and as having developed understanding without love. (roughly)

I was just wondering if anyone has already asked about this. or discussed it? If not, I would like too. :)

--

On another note, I can finally feel myself starting to make peace with myself. I know it is a very long process ahead of me, but for once, I am looking forward with a smile and hope. I want to be able to be a guide to other people one day. Thank you guys so much for what you do, you have been a wonderful guide for me so far. This whole site/knowledge base is so helpful to me, once again thanks. :P :P

The_Seeker

 

[whitecoast]

I've had trouble coming to understand this apparent conflict as well.

My intuition tells me that it may have to do with asymmetry in the evolution/de-evolution process. It's possible that a STS being or thought-form may exist at 5 or 6D, but due to some type of evolutionary quirk, consciousness that descends further into densities 1-4 cannot progress into 5D as STS. I could be totally wrong though.

Also, since humans are by and large STS, but have dreams (which are allegedly 5D events) there is some ability to inhabit 5D through that method as well. So it may be that STS beings below 5D cannot inhabit 5D on a more permanent basis unless they are from 6 or 7D originally (to the extent that a density without time can have a concept of permanence).

 

[axj]

From what I remember, the C's have been talking about 5D STS "overlords" as the most extreme cases of STS orientation. They say that it is in the 6th density that STS does not really exist.

 

[The_Seeker]

I will check on that bit of info. Thank you, both of you. And to be fair I have only made it through Part 3 or 4 of the wave series, other than just general glancing through of the other parts. :)

 

[bozadi]

One of my curiosities, when one says 5D and STS, is how the 5D (contemplation zone) experiences of 4D STS might be. Lizzies, for instance. When they disincarnate, they also go to the 5D to review their incarnation, their progression, their lessons. I wonder, how different that might be than ours.

 

[anart]

I think there may be some confusion here. The C's state that 5D is a contemplation zone between incarnations for densities 1-4. I don't think there is any reason to think there is no STS 'there', since the Universe is in balance, thus if there is STO 'there', there would be STS. If a 4D STS entity expires and recycles through 5D (which is the current hypothesis, to my understanding), then, there would be STS in 5D. Perhaps you are confusing and entity occupying 5th density as a between lives stage with a being that has developed a 5th density soul?

I'm not sure I have an answer for that question, at least not a definite one. STS does exist on the 6th level, but only as a reflection, for balance - which - again is very hard for us, as 3D beings to grasp (at least it's difficult for me to fully grasp, though I understand the concept) Perhaps others have input on this, but I think it might come down to trying to understand things we can't really know from where we currently 'stand'?

 

[obyvatel]

This excerpt from the transcript may be relevant.
[quote author= 960622]
Q: (L) Tonight, I would like to ask about 5th density. How does the "dividing line" between the 4 physical densities and 5th function?
A: Recycling zone, one must have direct contact in perfect balance with those on 6th density in order to fulfill the need for contemplation/learning phase while in
between incarnations of 1st through 4th densities.
Q: (L) When a person finishes all their experiences on 1st through 4th density, do they then remain at 5th for a period before to moving to 6th.
A: Yes.
Q: (L) When you die in 3rd and go to 5th, do you pass through or see 4th?
A: No.
Q: (L) When you are in 5th density, is part of your service to be a guide? Are there two kinds of beings on 5th: those who are there for the recycling, and those
whose level it simply IS?
A: No. All are as one in timeless understanding of all there is.
Q: (L) If, at 5th density a person has timeless understanding, what is it about them that determines that they will "recycle" as opposed to moving to 6th from
5th?
A: Contemplation reveals needed destiny.
Q: (L) So, being united with other beings on 5th, you come to some sort of understanding about your lessons....
A: Balanced. And this, my dear, is another example of gravity as the binder of all creation... "The Great Equalizer!"
[/quote]

 

[Neil]

I want to be able to be a guide to other people one day. Thank you guys so much for what you do, you have been a wonderful guide for me so far.

Well, let me start by saying that it is very hard to verify what goes on in higher planes of existence. If you want to be a "guide" you will have to determine for yourself what constitutes proof, acceptable hypothesis, and just plain old belief. For example, the influences of 4th density can only be detected in oh, so discreet ways. The main evidence supporting the reality of 4D is: 1.the constancy of the conspiracy to lock humanity down and perpetuate certain belief systems that has been going on for thousands of years 2. The duration, high strangeness, and infrastructure required to explain all of the facts regarding the UFO phenomena, and 3. An acceptable framework to explain deja vu and certain time/reality bridging experiences. If one looks at this evidence objectively without any preconceived notions about what's real and what isn't, the most logical conclusion is that there is a superhuman something with a higher vantage point than ours behind all of these anomalies at some level; hence what channelled sources call 4D. There are different interpretations for the evidence, but we could say that the existence of 4D is the one that has the highest probability of being correct. People go on to explain Reptoids, Greys, and Nordics, which is somewhat subjective, but having established the probable reality of 4D, we could say these things are probably true too. However, each time we add another layer of detail, we go farther and farther from established fact or evidence and deeper into interpretations.

Getting now to 5D, which is two levels removed from us, we have even less data. You will see the three main lines of evidence supporting it's existence are much more arcane. 1. The NDE phenomena, which seems to have enough compelling evidence to support the idea that people really do "go" somewhere and meet with guides who discuss karmic lessons and traverse fantastic landscapes 2. Certain hypnosis experiments where people claim to be meeting with guides and planning their next life or reviewing a previous one and 3. An acceptable framework to describe the evolution of souls and the mechanics of reincarnation. While 4D can be explained in a somewhat scientific manner, 5D has more of a humanistic or philosophical dimension to it. If you believe in a soul, and I think it is the only way to explain all of the high strangeness and weird quantum effects observed in the universe satisfactorily, then it seems strange that a soul would come into existence, learn all of its lessons within the span of a human lifetime, and then fade from existence or be committed to this or that fate. From a sort of common sense perspective, something like what entities call 5D must be real. However, in merely establishing the existence of 5D we have strayed far from what can be considered scientific analysis of the subject and ventured more into the subjective and sometimes scary realms of belief and faith. Personally I don't trust myself to be a guide because the universe keeps reminding me of how little I actually know. How can I be a "guide" when my belief system has to be rewritten or seriously augmented every couple of years? This is why I tend to prefer having rather long-winded and perhaps overly analytical discussions with people like you rather than thinking myself a "guide." Don't get the impression that I'm trying to criticize you for wanting to be a guide, I just want you to consider what constitutes real knowledge so that when you really do become a guide, you lead as few people astray with the fewest amount of distortions possible.

I do, by and large, believe the big 3 channellings, (Cass, Ra, Pleidean) and while it isn't very relevant to day-to-day 3D existence, I nevertheless find these cosmologies interesting and have pondered this very question recently. All of these sources speak of 5th and 6th density STS beings and have roughly the same things to say. Since this is the Cassiopaea forum, and the Transcripts are easily searchable, I will quote from the Cass material.

Q: (L) Are the 6th density STS individuals that you indicated are the Orions, these are the same beings, I understand, that
genetically engineered or created mankind, is that correct?
A: No.
Q: (L) Are they the first to alter us after creation?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Are the 6th density Orions known as Transient Passengers?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) So there are Transient Passengers that are STO as well as STS?
A: TP is "wanderer".
Q: (L) And what is a wanderer?
A: TP.
Q: (L) Well, the idea of the Wanderers, according to the Ra Material, is 4th or 5th density beings that have chosen to come back into 3rd density to help us. Would that be the same kind of Wanderer?
A: 5th or 6th density.
Q: (L) Is F*** a Wanderer?
A: Open.
Q: (L) Am I or V***?
A: Open.
Q: (V) What if we felt like we were?
A: Check it out.
Q: (L) How?
A: How would you think?
Q: (V) Faith, I guess, and how I feel. What else do you have to go on?
A: Not answer, try again.
Q: (L) Would hypnosis be the solution?
A: Bingo!
Q: (L) Okay. Now, I would like to know, for the sake of all the Theosophists around the world, what was the source of the information in the book "Isis Unveiled" by Helena Blavatsky?
A: Orions STS and STO. 6th Density.
Q: (L) So, her information was from both sides? And it is up to the reader to figure out which is which?
A: Good idea.
Q: (L) Is there any possibility that the information we get through this source is STS oriented?
A: Yes. Always possibility.

Then we have a further clarification about the higher density STS beings.

Q: (V) So there is no reason to step back. (T) Who eats the Lizzies on the 4th level?
A: No one. 4th is the last density for full manifestation of STS.
Q: (T) So, beings on the 5th and 6th level exist in pure energy?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) The 4th level is the last for full STS. Does that mean that the 5th level, which you have described as the "contemplative" level... what is the state of existence of a STS being on the 5th level?
A: Souls of 1,2,3, and 4 go to 5th.
Q: (T) So 5th level is where they go to while waiting to go back to one of the 4 for their next incarnation?
A: Exactly.
Q: (T) That is why it's called the contemplation level. You go and think about what you have done. (T) What about souls on 6th density? (L) Are there 6th density STS beings?
A: No, when you get to 6th you no longer need to recycle.
Q: (L) But still, is there an STS experience at 6th density, like the 6th density Orions?
A: These are only reflections of individuals, not unified entities. These reflections exist for balance. They are not whole entities, just thought forms.
Q: (L) Are these 6th density beings what the Bible describes as a "gathering" of angels as in the story of Job where "Lucifer" came in before the Lord...
A: Yes.
Q: (L) So, there are STS and STO at 6th density which balance? And they are just there, they exist?
A: Reflection for balance.

The great debate here seems to be whether STS exists in a native 5D state vs merely cycling through between incarnations which is what whitecoast and bozadi were getting at. According to the Cassiopaeans, 4D is the highest native level for an STS soul because they can never move past the physical universe and crave a certain degree of physicality. However, there does seem to be quite a bit of STS activity in the higher densities. For further information, we have Orion STS which keep Reptoids as "slaves" or "pets" in some cases as well as STS and STO "overseer zones".

Q: (RC) I thought that humans originated in Lyra and then a war broke out there and they ended up in Orion.
A: Lyra is not inhabited. There have been homes in all places, but some were/are transitory, and some are not. Pay attention to Orion! This is your ancestral home, and your eventual destination. Here is the absolutely accurately accurate profile of Orion to follow: This is the most heavily populated region of your Milky Way galaxy! This is a region that extends across 3rd and 4th density space for a distance as vast as the distance between your locator and it. There are 3,444 inhabited "worlds" in this region. Some are planets as you know them. Some are artificially constructed planetoids. Some are floating space barges. And some are "satellites." There are primary homes, traveling stations and incubator laboratories all in 2nd, 3rd and 4th densities.
There are overseer zones in 5th and 6th densities. Approximately one half is STO and one half is STS. Together, along with many other colonies, located elsewhere, this is called, in translation, Orion Federation. Orions created grays in 5 varieties, as cybergenetic beings, and installed them on Zeta Reticuli 1, 2, 3, and 4, as well as on 2 planets orbiting Barnard's Star. The Reptilians also inhabit 6 planets in the Orion region in 4th density, and are owned by the Orion STS as slaves, and, in some cases, pets!!! The name "Orion" is the actual native name, and was brought to earth directly. Study the legend of the "god" of Orion for parallels.

In addition, these 5D entities seem to create bases, which are primarily STS in nature.

Q: (L) I'll tell you, hold on. One of the things that came through: it was the session when I was asking questions about [my son's] experiences under hypnosis, so it was back fairly early on. And I asked a series of questions about what he perceived. Now, he had an alien abduction experience that he described in another lifetime, seemingly. He described what amounted to having this screen thing put over his face, and the red dots, and the programming and the beings in the silver robes standing around, and then being shunted through this tunnel, and finding himself in this dark space where there were all these black-hole things all around him. I asked, was this an alien abduction in another lifetime and they said no, it was a fifth density life review.
I said, are some of these beings we perceive as aliens, and some of these experiences we perceive as alien abductions, actually events or experiences on fifth density? And they said yes. (J) Life review... that's real important. (LAURA ) Right. So what they're saying is, and when they're talking about taking souls on the battlefield, and so forth, obviously we have fifth density "alien" and they've said that the term is used loosely. I mean, we might perceive them as alien, but they were fifth density workers, so to speak. That was their job, to do whatever it was they did, or they perceived it as their job. So that, to have these
bases transit the densities up through fifth, would make perfect sense because of the kind of work they're doing. Is that...
A: There is so much extremely vital stuff about this subject, that it would be wise to stay with it until completion.
Q: (T) We plan on staying with it, we're trying to understand this... (L) You remember when my brother was here, they kept wanting us to come back to the subject of the bases. And we didn't, we wandered off. (T) Our problem is, we wander a lot of the time. We're worse than Carl Sagan as a group here. We wander off on tangent ideas, and go from one thing to the next. We never stay on a subject. OK, the bases are trans-density bases; they go from the third density to the fifth; they exist in the third, fourth and fifth density all at the same time, is this correct so far?
A: Close.
Q: (T) Now, when a being, a soul, whatever, is in the base, do they exist in all three densities at the same time?
A: No.
Q: (L) Hold on, I've got an idea...
A: When you are in a skyscraper, do you exist on all floors at the same time?
Q: (J) No, but you have got to know where the elevator is! (L) Is there something like an elevator... (J) Yes, seriously! (L)... that can move you, if you're in these locations, from one density to another, and experience these bases, these trans-density bases, at different levels?
A: It is an elevator!
Q: (L) OK, so these bases are points... it is an elevator, so these bases may be places that if you are taken to them, are in them, that through these portals, or trans-density bases, you are thereby able to transit the densities?
A: You are able anyway.
Q: (L) OK, but are these specific locations... OK, it is an elevator... (T) Well, not an elevator as we perceive an elevator... (J)
Conceptually, yes. It's a conveyance, it's a method.
A: No.
Q: (T) No, that it isn't an elevator as we perceive it? (L) Is it an elevator for...
A: Literally.
Q: (L) It is literally an elevator?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) So you go there to get on to go to different densities?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) So, it is that easy?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) So you go to these bases, to go to different densities...
A: Although, it is possible to enter 4th and 5th in other ways too!
Q: (L) OK, are these beings, these other density beings, creating and utilizing these bases for mass movement of beings or artifacts, from one density to another? Is that what they're doing here?
A: No. They live on 4th, so they construct 4th density bases.
Q: (L) I'm getting it... So, the fourth density beings construct fourth density bases. These fourth density bases then somehow interface with third density in a certain point in space-time, and they then influence third density beings to build third density bases at this interface point, and through these interface points they are able to move back and forth between densities. Is this getting close to the idea?
A: The only ones who need to use this approach are 3rd D.
Q: (L) OK, so these are fourth density... (J) They are for our use? They are for third density being use.(L) OK, so our people have built these bases, using technology, perhaps... OK, let's take it one step at a time. Are these bases constructed by third density beings?
A: Partially.
Q: (L) Are they constructed by third and fourth density beings?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Are they constructed for the use of third density beings?
A: No.
Q: (L) Are they constructed... (T) Are the third density bases constructed for the use of third density beings?
A: Both.
Q: (T) Both third and fourth. OK, and there's a way for the fourth density beings, an elevator, to move from fourth to third; from their fourth density base to the third density base.
A: Vice Versa.
Q: (L) They said they were built for us, not for them.
A: No.
Q: (L) OK, they were built by us to allow us to get there...
A: No.
Q: (L) Then, I lost it! (T) They were built so that they can have a place to move and operate in third density even though their main base is in fourth density. They come here, and interact with third density beings, and do their third density stuff while they're here, because they can exist there, because fourth density spills over into it through the other bases. (L) OK, so when people go to these bases, and see aliens and humans interacting together, are they in fourth density, or third density?
A: Both.
Q: (L) Either or. OK. The next question is... (T) Both? Now, wait, they can either be in third or fourth. But you said, if you see
them interacting together... (L) Are they both at once?
A: Mostly on 4th.
Q: (T) OK, so the bases in third density here, are bases for whomever is working with the fourth density beings, that they can exist in it over long periods of time. The fourth density beings can come through to this density, by use of the base.. . [Dogs start howling in the back yard, distracting the session.] ... Now, I've lost my train of thought. OK, we've got a base, bases that exist...
(L) Who... (T) Third, fourth and fifth, and they can transit between third, fourth and fifth... The bases are STS bases, let's establish that. (L) That's an assumption...let's ask. (T) Are the bases STS bases?
A: Mostly.

Then there is this final tidbit about the extremes of the STS hierarchy.

Q: (L) Who created the Lizzies?
A: Ormethion.
Q: (L) And who is this individual?
A: Thought center.
Q: (L) Located where?
A: Everywhere.
Q: (L) Can you give us a little more of a clue?
A: Another sector of reality.
Q: (L) Is this a sentient, self-aware being that created the Lizzies?
A: Yes and no.
Q: (L) Is this individual one of what you called the Transient Passengers?
A: No.
Q: (L) Is it similar?
A: No.
Q: (L) And who created this Ormethion?
A: Not being; thought center.
Q: (L) Thought center of what?
A: Too complex.

and

Q: Is Ormethion who the Lizzies worship?
A: Close.
Q: Who do they worship? What do they call their god?
A: Physical universe.
Q: The physical universe is their god?
A: Yes.

So now that we have all of the material in front of us what does it tell us about 5D STS? We have a seeming dichotomy between Ra and the Cassiopaeans, with Ra telling us that STS beings can ascend to 5th and even 6th density, where the Cassiopaeans have them constantly cycling between 4th and 5th. Now we're getting away from the material here and more into interpretation, but here is how I think it works.Part of the problem is whether you define a thought center as a thing or a type of being. I lean more towards the idea of it being an exotic type of etheric being that exists outside of time and space rather than a more or less inanimate object. We know that densities 4 and below cycle through 5th, and both Ra and the Cassiopaeans mention that after an STS being reaches a certain ultimate threshold, they collapse into primal matter. We also know that STS hierarchies function by way of deception, where the ruling elite have most of the knowledge and the rest of the population is more or less dumb and clueless.

So, following along this line, when an ordinary 4D STS entity dies, it cycles into 5D, where it has expanded awareness, but doesn't make much use of it. If the entity is truly STS, it is only concerned about maximizing its own potentials; all of the curiosity has been bred out of it. Instead of using 5D to learn about the broader spiritual reality, the STS entity focuses on optimizing its incarnative potential for a higher paying career in the next life. The entity does not have enough knowledge to put its awareness to use guiding and controlling lower entities.

When one of the ruling elite dies, I think the situation is a bit different. According to the law of the jungle which governs STS hierarchies, only the strongest and most intelligent will rise to the top. During its previous incarnations, the overlord class of the 4D hierarchy will have become very wise at manipulating the physical universe, persuading others to surrender their freewill to it, and learned about all kinds of powers and techniques which make it seem godlike. Such an entity may form a contract with certain close disciples, ensuring them a promotion when it dies, in return for following certain instructions that will be prescribed from the higher vantage point of 5D. A bond is formed which allows the disciples to channel the entity in a way that they will always instinctively know what it wants. The entity then functions as a sort of dark Jesus, pulling more and more entities toward the thought center of non-being, while having to do absolutely no legwork due its ascended "god" status. The entity may then cycle back into 4D a few times to tighten up its understanding of manipulating others or to more directly nudge things in a desired direction, but it eventually reaches a state where it does nothing besides sit in the etheric realm and gain mass. It even stops communicating, because talking requires some expenditure of energy, and giving away energy, even in the smallest amounts, weakens its total commitment to STS. Unless the entity is in some way challenged, it just relies on its brainwashed 4D servants to conquest and enslave more souls so it can stick its tentacles into a broader and broader pool of energy and gain more mass. The entity then views itself as God of its own private universe as it ceases to do anything and exists for the sole purpose of power for the sake of power. It sees other selves as something only to be absorbed. I think once the entity reaches this point, it no longer cycles back into 4D and begins a rather rapid slide toward dissolution. I see this as basically the portrait of a 5D "native" STS soul. It reaches such an extreme polarization in its final 4D incarnation that it uses its next contemplation cycle to finalize its fusion with the thought center of non-being. As an aside, I believe that an entity that is powerful enough to keep a Lizzie as a "pet" is one of these 5D beings, and perhaps the "good pets" are the ones allowed into the 5D bases, much how like we treat 2D.

In an interview about 10 years ago, Laura was on a show, I believe it was called Nightwatch, and she was talking about these higher level STS beings. She described the 4D beings as really nasty, but there was still some concept of interaction and society, only if for manipulative purposes. She then described a separate class of beings that she came across in her exorcisms which she described as an "etheric slug" that inhabits the dark grottoes of the spiritual world. She explained as an entity which barely interacts at all, does not exist in any conceivable form of society and just sits around and absorbs as much energy as it is able. When she encountered the entity during a exorcism, she said it just felt like it was sucking all of the life out of everything into some sort of black hole. This entity was the main reason she stopped doing exorcisms. I don't remember exactly how she explained it, and don't want to put words in her mouth, but this explanation seems to support the idea of a 5D level of STS.

Ra also speaks of STS entities, which under exceptional circumstances, can ascend to 6D. He describes it as a very unstable state where the entity either collapses or is instantly converted to STO. The Cassiopaeans also describe the collapse state in some detail. I don't think one source necessarily excludes the other. I think during the 5D state, the entity eventually reaches a tipping point. It has created its own subjective reality where it is God and it is the only thing which exists. STS seeks everything to be quiet and calm so it can go back to sleep. So it eliminates all concept of other self from the equation and even seeks to stop entertaining itself with its various fantasies because that requires energy which gets in the way of gaining mass. At this point the entity's dedication to non-being approaches 100% and it is indeed God of its own little universe, but it is a dark universe that consists of nothingness. The entity then "ascends" to 6D, which appears to be a density of unity, balance, objectivity, and omnipresence, among other things. This creates an inescapable paradox since the entity is only present within its own subjective view of itself, is completely entropic, and cannot unite with anyone because it no longer recognizes the concept of thoughts and ideas other than its own. So this realization causes the STS entity to implode and shatter into innumerable 1D shards, so that the cycle can begin again. So the 6D STS experience, if there is one, exists only as the feelings and processes that occur during the entity's inevitable collapse into nonexistence. And I guess this is the Ormethion that these Lizzies worship. Ormethion is more of a physical process that awaits those who push STS to its ultimate limits than a real being, yet it contains the experience of these destroyed souls who follow their ultimate calling. I think that Ormethion is just a fancy name for the thought-center of non-being. 4D STS only sees themselves becoming "masters of the universe" and not the ultimate destruction that follows. I guess that's how 6D STS exists for balance, since its completely entropic nonexistence kind of seems to form a natural shadow to the completely objective creativity of STO.

So, although it is highly speculative that is my best understanding of post 4D STS energies based on my most current belief system. There's no way to prove 90% of it but I hope it helps you and you found it insightful.

 

[anart]

Hi Neil, I think the first part of what you've said here seems pretty accurate, for the most part. However, when you get to this part:

So, following along this line, when an ordinary 4D STS entity dies, it cycles into 5D, where it has expanded awareness, but doesn't make much use of it. If the entity is truly STS, it is only concerned about maximizing its own potentials; all of the curiosity has been bred out of it. Instead of using 5D to learn about the broader spiritual reality, the STS entity focuses on optimizing its incarnative potential for a higher paying career in the next life. The entity does not have enough knowledge to put its awareness to use guiding and controlling lower entities.

When one of the ruling elite dies, I think the situation is a bit different. According to the law of the jungle which governs STS hierarchies, only the strongest and most intelligent will rise to the top. During its previous incarnations, the overlord class of the 4D hierarchy will have become very wise at manipulating the physical universe, persuading others to surrender their freewill to it, and learned about all kinds of powers and techniques which make it seem godlike. Such an entity may form a contract with certain close disciples, ensuring them a promotion when it dies, in return for following certain instructions that will be prescribed from the higher vantage point of 5D. A bond is formed which allows the disciples to channel the entity in a way that they will always instinctively know what it wants. The entity then functions as a sort of dark Jesus, pulling more and more entities toward the thought center of non-being, while having to do absolutely no legwork due its ascended "god" status. The entity may then cycle back into 4D a few times to tighten up its understanding of manipulating others or to more directly nudge things in a desired direction, but it eventually reaches a state where it does nothing besides sit in the etheric realm and gain mass. It even stops communicating, because talking requires some expenditure of energy, and giving away energy, even in the smallest amounts, weakens its total commitment to STS. Unless the entity is in some way challenged, it just relies on its brainwashed 4D servants to conquest and enslave more souls so it can stick its tentacles into a broader and broader pool of energy and gain more mass. The entity then views itself as God of its own private universe as it ceases to do anything and exists for the sole purpose of power for the sake of power. It sees other selves as something only to be absorbed. I think once the entity reaches this point, it no longer cycles back into 4D and begins a rather rapid slide toward dissolution. I see this as basically the portrait of a 5D "native" STS soul. It reaches such an extreme polarization in its final 4D incarnation that it uses its next contemplation cycle to finalize its fusion with the thought center of non-being. As an aside, I believe that an entity that is powerful enough to keep a Lizzie as a "pet" is one of these 5D beings, and perhaps the "good pets" are the ones allowed into the 5D bases, much how like we treat 2D.

In an interview about 10 years ago, Laura was on a show, [...] I don't remember exactly how she explained it, and don't want to put words in her mouth, but this explanation seems to support the idea of a 5D level of STS.

You're writing really subjectively from a 3D point of view about things we really have no way of knowing and wandering off into many left fields. It's basically what Gurdjieff would call 'wiseacring' and I don't know that it's very helpful, other than for you to write down what you think might be going on, which can be an enjoyable thing to do. The point is, we can't know any of that, and there's really no reason to think any of it is true, though it might make an interesting sci-fi movie.

Ra also speaks of STS entities, which under exceptional circumstances, can ascend to 6D. He describes it as a very unstable state where the entity either collapses or is instantly converted to STO. The Cassiopaeans also describe the collapse state in some detail. I don't think one source necessarily excludes the other. I think during the 5D state, the entity eventually reaches a tipping point. It has created its own subjective reality where it is God and it is the only thing which exists.

I don't think this is true, especially considering the whole point is choice. The whole point is developing enough and learning enough to be able to make a choice between an STO mode of existence and and STS mode of existence, so 'reaching a tipping point' in 5D doesn't make much sense, to my understanding.

STS seeks everything to be quiet and calm so it can go back to sleep.

Not necessarily - again, you're projecting your 3D understanding. We don't know that STS seeks quiet and calm - all we know is that STS consumes and pulls inward, while STO 'emits' and gives (outward), so to say (and to put it very simply).

So, although it is highly speculative that is my best understanding of post 4D STS energies based on my most current belief system. There's no way to prove 90% of it but I hope it helps you and you found it insightful.

Yes, it is highly speculative and seems to have some concepts about STS and STO a bit confused. It was also quite long! ;) I think it's really important to realize when we're working from data and when our minds take that data and run off with it, since our minds are necessarily limited (being in our current state) - resulting in fiction, really. There is no problem with speculation, but investing a lot of energy and time into it, without deeply - deeply - realizing we don't really have a clue, is an issue. fwiw.

 

[bozadi]

neil, thank you very much for your insights. I find them generally very useful for my thinking. And thank you, anart, for your inputs and advices. Yes, I think also that there are high chances of getting over-subjective on various aspects of this particular subject. I try to get together various info parts in my mind together and I want to share, when I have, possible coherent and relevant images, and have feedbacks and possible advices, of course.

 

[Neil]

Wiseacring? Possibly, which is why I had those two long paragraphs at the beginning of my post discussing how hard it is to say anything definite about higher densities and trying to get the original poster to consider what they hold to be knowledge and what is basically opinion. I thought the repetition of the words "I think" and "I believe" made it rather clear that this was just a possibility or an interpretation, and not meant to be taken as "truth."

Now in regards to my speculations about the 5D STS entities, I did some digging and found the source material I was thinking of while writing the descriptions.

M: Now, do you make a distinction between demonic beings and aliens beings?
L: Oh, absolutely, absolutely! A demonic being, by technical definition, is what we call a fifth density being. Just imagine, if you will, an etheric slug. And a characteristic of the demonic being is that is so contractile that it has passed the point where it is capable of giving anything.
Aliens are sill on a lower level of experience, what we call fourth density beings. They still can interact, because they need to interact, they have to take care of their flock, so they can have their lamb (?) and their warm cosy cloth made of lamb skin. So, they are still capable of interacting in a seemingly benevolent way.
But a truly demonic being is totally etheric, has no physical manifestation, it inserts itself into the interstitial spaces of your soul frequency and lives there like a sucking slug. So just picture it just that way and have an idea.

There is also this SOTT podcast about the same subject at http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=6169.0

J: Or Oink! So what is the difference between a demon and your average spirit attachment?
L: Well, according to the literature a demon is an entity that has never had its own body. It's basically parasitical.
J: You mean human body?
L: Human body, yes.
J: Okay.
H: It works on the time sharing principle, is that it?
L: More or less, more or less. Doesn't have its own home, and why that is I'm not exactly sure but its seems that the principle is that it lacks something that allows it to incarnate into a human body and whether that is a connection to the centres as expounded by Mouravieff or whether it is for some other reason I'm not entirely sure. My guess is, is that because being in a body requires an expenditure of energy, that is the primary reason why so-called demons or elementals do not incarnate into bodies because they don't expend energy, they...
J: They take.
L: Well, yeah they take energy and they feed it up a sort of connecting line to the next higher demonic entity in the hierarchy and because they are under the complete control of this hierarchy, they don't get much of an allowance to spend and they don't have enough allowance to pay for a body. They're job is to latch onto or parasitically attach to bodies that are operated by beings that are essentially creative in nature, creative being in the sense they have a portion or segment or part of their psyche that is creative and allows for creative expenditure of energy. You can take this a little bit further and imagine that an extremely selfish individual who is very lazy and doesn't do much and only takes and doesn't give is pretty much on their way to becoming food for this kind of entity, but having said that, I still say that this particular one, nasty as it was and even as strong as it was in its resistance was still not equivalent to some I've read about and heard about. Now those who have read Hostage to the Devil can realize that probably this critter was similar to those entities that Malachi Martin writes about in his book, but then of course there is one that Scott Peck wrote about that struck me as being far more dangerous and older and bigger and nastier than anything I've personally encountered in my work. And of course we are talking about last week's podcast where we played portions of a taped exorcism that I did back in, when was it? 1995 I believe, and I haven't done too much in the way of hypnosis since then because it took..

For what it's worth, Laura here seems to be basically paraphrasing what I wrote about the hypothetical 5D entity although she didn't say anything about how 4D STS would interact with 5D STS. She obviously is more clear-headed about this matter than I am and has a more concise way of explaining it. I will concede that the last 4-5 sentences of my paragraph about the 5D entity were getting a little carried away about what might happen in one particular instance and doesn't really have any basis in data uncovered so far.

The whole point is developing enough and learning enough to be able to make a choice between an STO mode of existence and and STS mode of existence, so 'reaching a tipping point' in 5D doesn't make much sense, to my understanding.

OK, we know that all entropic [STS?] systems collapse at some point. Obviously, choices are made before the collapse and during the collapse. When one makes so many consecutive choices that are collinear with a particular path, one is committed to that path, at least for a certain period of "time." Let's consider our current situation regarding psychopathy and Earth Changes, which we are told mirror the human experiential cycle. The information about pathocracy has been out there for awhile, the information about government cover-ups has been out there for awhile, esoteric (real) teachings have been around forever, and now it is all pretty much out in the open, on the internet. Yet humanity collectively still chooses the path of ignorance. Many SOTTs seem to feel that the steadfast adherence to this path has "locked in" a certain experiential sequence of events. A recent SOTT Focus described it as (paraphrasing here) "2010 was a year when a certain critical threshold was reached and a door closed behind it." Obviously, choices were made then and are still being made now. Would you not describe the crossing of a threshold as a "tipping point?" Getting back to the STS entity, I defined the "tipping point" as a point where the entity finally fully commits to the pathway of non-being and is subsequently crushed into primal matter. I did not intend to imply that this must occur in any particular density, it depends on the willpower of the entity and the shocks it encounters, I think, I just stuck with the hypothetical 5D entity because that's the example I was using. I think this is more a matter of semantics than understanding.

Not necessarily - again, you're projecting your 3D understanding. We don't know that STS seeks quiet and calm - all we know is that STS consumes and pulls inward, while STO 'emits' and gives (outward), so to say (and to put it very simply).

Yes, I think you're right. I guess we could say that the ultimate goal of the STS entities is basically to "absorb everything." "Quiet and calm" is a subjective interpretation of what things would be like after everything is absorbed.

Yes, it is highly speculative and seems to have some concepts about STS and STO a bit confused.

If you don't mind, could you please tell me what concepts I have failed to discern correctly?

And no, I'm not ignoring the most important point of the conversation. The main underlying thread here is that we are basically trying to create a system describing the unknowable. If we had an absolute understanding of higher densities, we wouldn't be in this one; 3D is where our energy "fits." So we're forced to use analogies to try and explain these exotic realms that inevitably crop up when one is interested in metaphysics in general. Not you, nor I, nor Laura are in any position to really "know" these things. The original poster wanted to know about 5D STS entities; whether or not they existed. I collected some materials which I believe support my view of it, though it is all anecdotal or circumstantial. The point is, anyone can quote volumes of channelled material, and build up elaborate rhetoric to support this or that theory. This is more of a "curiosity" subject that doesn't contribute appreciably to one's Work or evolution, and becoming too transfixed by it and building up elaborate theories on foundations of sand basically amounts to masturbation, in the esoteric sense. We all kind of need a system as a working hypothesis to "go" with until new data comes along, but as Anart originally stated, no one here can honestly give you a definitive answer.

 

[cubbex]

As I understand too, is that the 5fth density is a level where you may get naturally as Jesus did. But at the same time, is the contemplative zone after physical expiration.

So the STS forces go there, and are there, but wouldn't go there in the natural learning cycle without being completely STO.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[anart]

Wiseacring?

Yep.

I will concede that the last 4-5 sentences of my paragraph about the 5D entity were getting a little carried away about what might happen in one particular instance and doesn't really have any basis in data uncovered so far.

Which is all I was saying. Time is short and most of us don't have two minutes to rub together, so it's always appreciated when forum members write very concisely - brevity is key. You wrote a really long post, of which the entire second half was basically just your opinions on what might be happening at higher densities and what the motivations of the inhabitants are.

OK, we know that all entropic [STS?] systems collapse at some point.

You implied that a 'tipping point' would arrive in 5D. I merely stated that doesn't seem plausible from what I understand, and - quite frankly - we cannot know such a thing from where we stand. This is not even to mention the hypothesis (and, remember, all of this is hypothesis at this stage) that 4D is the highest an STS entity can advance as an individuated entity (with any physicality at all, be it variable at that point), so if you're referring to collapsing into primal matter, wouldn't it follow more logically for that sort of thing to occur from 4D and not 5D, since 5D is purely a contemplation zone? Speaking hypothetically, of course.

Obviously, choices are made before the collapse and during the collapse. When one makes so many consecutive choices that are collinear with a particular path, one is committed to that path, at least for a certain period of "time." Let's consider our current situation regarding psychopathy and Earth Changes, which we are told mirror the human experiential cycle. The information about pathocracy has been out there for awhile, the information about government cover-ups has been out there for awhile, esoteric (real) teachings have been around forever, and now it is all pretty much out in the open, on the internet. Yet humanity collectively still chooses the path of ignorance. Many SOTTs seem to feel that the steadfast adherence to this path has "locked in" a certain experiential sequence of events. A recent SOTT Focus described it as (paraphrasing here) "2010 was a year when a certain critical threshold was reached and a door closed behind it." Obviously, choices were made then and are still being made now. Would you not describe the crossing of a threshold as a "tipping point?"

Not necessarily and I'm not sure what any of the above has to do with you stating, rather unequivocally I might add, that STS reaches a 'tipping point' in 5D.

Getting back to the STS entity, I defined the "tipping point" as a point where the entity finally fully commits to the pathway of non-being and is subsequently crushed into primal matter. I did not intend to imply that this must occur in any particular density, it depends on the willpower of the entity and the shocks it encounters, I think, I just stuck with the hypothetical 5D entity because that's the example I was using. I think this is more a matter of semantics than understanding.

Neil - it would be really helpful if you could work on your brevity. You are coming across as being very defensive in this post, as if it's vitally important to you to be correct here and I'm curious about why that is? I wasn't commenting on 'an example you used' because you didn't state it as an example. I was commenting on what you wrote.

If you don't mind, could you please tell me what concepts I have failed to discern correctly?

Actually, the whole flavor of your posts in this thread is concerning. It's okay to be wrong, Neil - we're all wrong about things every single day. It's okay to not know, or to be uncertain - all I am is uncertain! I say you have concepts confused because of your posts - the 5D issue, the 'calm and quiet' statement - the lengthy description of what an STS entity might be thinking or motivated by to reincarnate. It's all subjective and, in that, rather confused.

And no, I'm not ignoring the most important point of the conversation.

I didn't think you were. Is there a reason you're so emotional about this? (perhaps I'm misreading you?) Are you under stress in your life in some way? Is it exam time?

The main underlying thread here is that we are basically trying to create a system describing the unknowable. If we had an absolute understanding of higher densities, we wouldn't be in this one; 3D is where our energy "fits." So we're forced to use analogies to try and explain these exotic realms that inevitably crop up when one is interested in metaphysics in general. Not you, nor I, nor Laura are in any position to really "know" these things.

That was my initial point, Neil - and if you go back and read your posts, you might notice that you write as if you do know. A sentence or two at the end saying that it's likely 90% of it isn't true after an extremely lengthy post explaining how it all works tends to leave the reader thinking that you really think you know how these things work.

The original poster wanted to know about 5D STS entities; whether or not they existed. I collected some materials which I believe support my view of it, though it is all anecdotal or circumstantial.

Actually, your collection of materials was fine - as I stated. It was when you wandered off into theoretical land that I simply pointed out that we can't know and that while fiction can be fun to write, it's helpful to stick to as much data as we can get our hands on.

The point is, anyone can quote volumes of channelled material, and build up elaborate rhetoric to support this or that theory.

Which is what you were doing.

This is more of a "curiosity" subject that doesn't contribute appreciably to one's Work or evolution, and becoming too transfixed by it and building up elaborate theories on foundations of sand basically amounts to masturbation, in the esoteric sense.

Which was my point. And - I disagree that such subjects don't contribute to one's Work. How one approaches such subjects very much does, and how one learns to examine the way one thinks regarding such subjects (as with all subjects) absolutely does.

Paying strict attention to how one thinks - to what captures the imagination and why, to how one writes and why, is all integral to the Work. Understanding why one is motivated to write very long passages in such a way that it comes across with authority or intellectual gravity about a topic that, by its very nature lacks those things, is very, very important. Understanding why one reacts emotionally when such passages are not received how one expected them to be is very, very important. This is all the basis of the Work - this is all the raw material from which one can form self-knowledge and understanding and eventually write in such a way that massive amounts of information are presented with minimum words.

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to consider that?

 

[Neil]

OK, well I will admit that I have a right man program. I have always wanted to be right. I try to find as much evidence as possible to substantiate my claims and try to develop them in as much detail as possible. But why do I want to be right? Part of it is because I feel I need to be as close to the truth as possible, but there are negative reasons as well. There certainly is a tremendous ego boost that comes from being "right," society likes people who are "right," being "right" feels good and all sorts of narcissistic reasons. I have run into this before in other places, but I thought it was "under control" when talking to you.

Looking back over my post, I can see that, when taken under a certain context, it appears as if I am trying to prove my "rightness" to you. The use of the word "concede" could be taken to imply I'm fighting some sort of battle with you. The "and no" statement could come across as rather snide, depending on how it's read. Personally, I thought I was writing this from a rather stoic stance. The "and no" was a mechanical statement intending to serve as a transition into the idea that I knew we were discussing unknowable subjects, because I spent the rest of the post expanding on the idea of 5D STS and this idea was probably more important than the topic subject itself. However, taken in another context, it could be the "right man," irritated that you questioned his reasoning, felt a need to represent these things to you to justify the "rightness" of it all. This was not at all intended, but looking at what I wrote from what I might call an "external" perspective, this right man thing could be seen as a subtle presence. I viewed your commentary as a misunderstanding instead of a difference of understanding which could be self importance. I see that you understood what I said perfectly, but I felt a need to explain it again so you would "get" it. As far as it making more sense for the collapse to happen in 4D, I can't really answer that because you're thinking of it in a different way than I was, an I'll have to consider that for awhile.

Quiet and Calm- This idea was developed from the pathocracy's population reduction plan. They want to eliminate all non-pathologicals or make utter slaves of whoever is left. Then they can do whatever they want with all of the resources that are left over, or so they think. The world would be quiet and calm, for a little while anyway, but it would only because pretty much everyone is dead. So I was trying to put myself in the mind of the demon and see what might make them tick on a higher level.

Understanding why one is motivated to write very long passages in such a way that it comes across with authority or intellectual gravity about a topic that, by its very nature lacks those things, is very, very important. Understanding why one reacts emotionally when such passages are not received how one expected them to be is very, very important.

I don't know what to do about this "intellectual gravity." Almost all of my writings are like this. I thought I was suffciently clear in saying I'm not an "ascended master," but if the tone of my writings forms a certain impression in the readers mind about my supposed "authority" or "status" I'm not sure what I can do about it. I just expected people to read my passage, maybe add a bit to it, and share what their viewpoint was on the matter. I didn't see it as coming across as "the law" on the way things are out there.

 

[The_Seeker]

Thank you all for your information and research! :)