A conman punched me but the headache comes from within

[obyvatel]

Yes this issue of submitting to this 'power' in my head I feel almost every time, especially when tired or feeling low. I was assaulted before new year and I probably still haven't purged that experience emotionally, so it manifests often in my life.

Hi Paragon,
It is possible that you are traumatized by your past experience. Did you follow any body-sensing based approaches advocated by Peter Levine (In An Unspoken Voice) to deal with that experience? Did you do any writing exercise as suggested in the Redirect thread?

[quote author=Paragon]
I had one lesson of self defense before that and that session felt amazing and I drew a lot of physical self confidence from that! Just knowing I could at least stand up for myself physically when before in life I had always 'lost' a fight, really enabled me to live better. So I might go again.
[/quote]
If it felt so great, why did you stop after one lesson? You cannot realistically learn much from one lesson.

[quote author=Paragon]
My posture is usually good and I consciously make sure I walk with confidence and looseness, except that when I have to pass a person, I sometimes feel that I don't want to project an energy of aggression or confidence or else that person will feel drained or threatened in someway.
[/quote]

This is just your imagination and self-importance. You cannot "drain" a person by walking by them in a relaxed and confident manner.

[quote author=Paragon]
I also notice that I sometimes seem to just attract attention from the thug types when I walk with confidence and looseness, and they will shout from their car some expletive or something, and I feel like I'm 'pushing above my weight' when it comes to my physical movements.
[/quote]

Sometimes, one cannot control what thug-types say. It may have nothing to do with how you walk - at least in the way you seem to be implying.

It appears that even though you write that you walk in a confident and loose manner, you do not really feel confident from inside. Without observing someone it is not possible to make a comment - nevertheless consider the possibility if you are making exaggerated physical gestures to put up what you think is a confident pose. Why not ask some friend/relative to watch you walk and ask them how it looks from the outside?

Either way, if you cannot avoid situations where you would encounter thug type people on a fairly regular basis, it makes sense to take self-defense lessons seriously.
osit

 

[Paragon]

Thanks for your response, I might have misunderstood your question. I think you're fortunate to have the mental capability to address this issue of energy exchange, but that might be just my opinion.

I sometimes feel that I don't want to project an energy of aggression or confidence or else that person will feel drained or threatened in someway.

It's my belief that you shouldn't compromise with your own well-being in these kinds of situations. What others think just by looking at you, it's in their minds only. You can't affect that. It's prejudice. Consequently, this energy of aggression that you could project doesn't harm anyone directly.

If they feel threatened by you, it still doesn't mean that you are threatening them. And I am unsure whether it is even possible for you to drain someone solely from your demeanor. But I could be wrong. What I've read so far, in this thread and in others, indicate that this energy-draining business is native to psychopaths only. Maybe you can educate me on that?

It's the best idea not to respond to anyone calling you from a car, or from the safety of their group, using the 'thug'-type example. These people act weak and will have little to no courage when walking on their own as you and I do often.

Lastly, here's an example of when I would compromise with my philosophy:

A girl was walking ahead of me on the same pavement. Her walking tempo was slower than mine, but not slow enough for me to overtake her without half-running. Eventually, she noticed me as I slowly caught up to her. My plan was to just slow down; I wasn't in a rush at all, but my mind wandered off and as I slipped back into my normal walking pace, she picks up her phone which wasn't ringing and and starts fidgeting with it. I know that this means that she's feeling threatened by my presence in the dark. So I opted to walk across the street to the other pavement, increasing the distance between us.

I could have said "Relax, I'm not here to rob you." but that would probably only make her feel worse. Should I have kept approaching her? Maybe. But I could sense the tension originating from her and I wanted to defuse it. It doesn't bother me the least if she thought she just fended off a predator of some kind, I just reacted to her insecurity. And we didn't even speak one word.

It could be that I am just more aware of my self and I notice what specific thing in my external environment produces an internal reaction, say a thought loop or an influx of negative emotion that will colour my perception for the whole day. It could be something really silly like a car driving aggressively. I mean, come on . But in all seriousness it just adds credence to the idea that we are all mechanical machines, only reacting to external influences ala Gurdjieff. I think really I over react to stimuli because of emotional trauma and not having purged as obyvatel suggests. And this could be a form of projection when I assume I am 'threatening' someone, along with my own self importance.

On the issue of energy draining, well, one thing that I've been a whole lot more aware of over time from reading the material here is the reality of energetic interactions. I guess I am afraid of this, and it's related to the idea that I feel like I'm projecting aggressive energy or whatever, when I pass someone. The reason I say this because, in the fall of last year I somewhat had the horrible feeling that I was misusing the knowledge I had learned here to unconsciously crystallise my false personality.

Whenever I was with a group of friends, I was able to 'draw' on the knowledge of this energy and use it to my own personal advantage, to say, become the dominant person in that group. I would never have consciously have hurt anyone. This was always utmost in my mind. So I would use it to impress girls In the context of a pub for example, and I wasn't aware of how against STO this was until I was reading about sappers in the OP thread. I saw in myself, or at least I thought I did, the misuse of this energy and I wanted to stop it.

This coincided with a work mate of mine who had severe personality disorders and psychopathic tendencies and in the process of observing this petty tyrant, I saw how he would 'hold' the conversation with others or become the dominant person, just by his presence. And I knew exactly how he done this. It was the same 'energy' that I was aware of and used and he Used it to manipulate people in the usual worst psychopathic way. Also I noticed he 'stole' my energy and used it to power his own self, since we know they can't generate that life giving energy on their own. He was basically destroying my false personality and also my trust in the self, so in a sense he helped me realise my own damaging ways and I vowed never to be like him, even if I told myself I wasn't out to deliberately drain anyone, I could be doing it unconsciously anyway.

So in Essence I worry that I am draining other people and I constantly watch out for this now. I've not had the same strength of personality since, but that is a good thing since I am able to see things a tad more objectively now. This has resulted in my personality becoming 'passive and boring', but I've still not found a way to balance my essence and personality, so that I 'fit' in better in the world.

Hopefully that explains things and if not, I apologise, I tend to ramble and create unecessarly long paragraphs OSIT.

Back to the compromise you mention, that is a good example of what I'm talking about. Perhaps I can keep this in mind when out on the street :)

 

[Paragon]

Yes this issue of submitting to this 'power' in my head I feel almost every time, especially when tired or feeling low. I was assaulted before new year and I probably still haven't purged that experience emotionally, so it manifests often in my life.

Hi Paragon,
It is possible that you are traumatized by your past experience. Did you follow any body-sensing based approaches advocated by Peter Levine (In An Unspoken Voice) to deal with that experience? Did you do any writing exercise as suggested in the Redirect thread?

[quote author=Paragon]
I had one lesson of self defense before that and that session felt amazing and I drew a lot of physical self confidence from that! Just knowing I could at least stand up for myself physically when before in life I had always 'lost' a fight, really enabled me to live better. So I might go again.

If it felt so great, why did you stop after one lesson? You cannot realistically learn much from one lesson.

[quote author=Paragon]
My posture is usually good and I consciously make sure I walk with confidence and looseness, except that when I have to pass a person, I sometimes feel that I don't want to project an energy of aggression or confidence or else that person will feel drained or threatened in someway.
[/quote]

This is just your imagination and self-importance. You cannot "drain" a person by walking by them in a relaxed and confident manner.

[quote author=Paragon]
I also notice that I sometimes seem to just attract attention from the thug types when I walk with confidence and looseness, and they will shout from their car some expletive or something, and I feel like I'm 'pushing above my weight' when it comes to my physical movements.
[/quote]

Sometimes, one cannot control what thug-types say. It may have nothing to do with how you walk - at least in the way you seem to be implying.

It appears that even though you write that you walk in a confident and loose manner, you do not really feel confident from inside. Without observing someone it is not possible to make a comment - nevertheless consider the possibility if you are making exaggerated physical gestures to put up what you think is a confident pose. Why not ask some friend/relative to watch you walk and ask them how it looks from the outside?

Either way, if you cannot avoid situations where you would encounter thug type people on a fairly regular basis, it makes sense to take self-defense lessons seriously.
osit
[/quote]

Hi obyvatel!,

I have not looked at Peter Levine's work but it does sound useful. I have done the redirect exercises and found them to be helpful, though i haven't used them for this specific example. Seems like it would be beneficial for me to do so, just need to muster up the will and courage to face these emotions. Thank you for the suggestions :)

I stopped the self defense class because I injured my shoulder, then I was involved in that assault and broke my wrist, which I'm having physio to repair it and regain a reasonable amount of movement since the range of travel is very poor. I might ask my physic tomorrow if it would be possible to return

I think that the emotional trauma is affecting my mechanical centre's ability to operate efficiently on it's own, and that this is a misuse of centres. So I try to counteract by using system 2 or my thinking centre or whatever, to walk 'normally' when Its very possible that I am exaggerating my physical movements as you said. I think that in the act of self obveration, I might be going too deep into my subconscious and become aware of all the mechanical processes and trying to control them. Could this be a possibility?

 

[Muxel]

Paragon, my problem is so much like yours, that I benefit greatly from this discussion.

"How can I navigate so that it doesn't provoke others." - is this your question?

When strangers greeted me nicely, I would seize up because my self-importance made me worry about how I would be perceived / how I would "disappoint" them. I'd beat myself up afterwards for doing a "bad job". But all the Universe saw was:

Old lady: Hi, how you doin'?
Muxel: Nh-h-h-h-h.

See what kind of impression you're making on the person. If your "loose confident walk" is painful to watch, then the Universe or your mom would have told you by now.

But without anticipation, things tend to fall into place because -

Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God.

The good friendships I had in the past were forged soundlessly when I did not expect anything. Who knows precisely what they liked about me?

 

[kenlee]

One aspect of this 'controlling your centerline' business is that I've noticed when passing a man or a group of males on a street, I always tense up and have an emotional reaction to their 'energy'. I would feel like a victim and would be submissive in my walking, so that I feel that they would have control of the situation, even if nothing happened which is obviously the case for the majority of the time. What would stop me from having this emotional energy flood the mechanical centre and misuse it? I am aware that EE would help, but what about shedding this 'victim' and 'weak' mentality and gaining control over my mechanical centre?

Hi Paragon, I think that this 'energy' that you refer to might be something your actually picking up that is objectively going on in the outside world such as an aggressive posturing that someone walking too close to you is projecting, but not necessarily directed to you personally. Or maybe it is directed to you personally. Or it could be in your imagination due to internal considering where this reaction is just running amok inside you with no real connection with what's objectively going on in the outside world so that your projecting something outwardly into the world from inside you. Or it could be both where your internal projections get reflected back and become a self fulfilling prophecy as it were. Lots of possibilities there. The important thing IMO is to not let the reaction control you mentally, emotionally, and physically since the reaction, left to itself, is anything but objective and showing proper discernment. When the reaction controls you then you lose control of your ' centerline' (this concept along with 'central line' and simultaneous attack and defense is the basis of Wing Chun) and then your open to be controlled by influences coming from the outside world.

Standing your ground, breathing right, not letting the reaction get the best of you and being as relaxed as possible in these kind of situations will, I think, help you to accuratly discern what's going on around and inside you, so that you can more objectively evaluate what's going on and respond (more) properly to each specific situation. I think the EE breathing, especially the pipe breathing will help you A LOT in being relaxed and not overreacting as well as the reading material already suggested. Martial arts, boxing, or self defense training will also help as long as you appreciate the true spirit of the arts and not get overconfident with the ego and all like that. Go easy on the training though especially when beginning. Hope this helps!

 

[Paragon]

Hay Muxel!,

Yeah that is essentially, my question. :) it's just that when I became aware of the reality of energetic interactions, I was afraid that I was draining other people and I started to self observe more. I actually think that I was paying far too much attention to how I was feeling rather than the other person. So in effect, I was internally considering and not doing the work properly. Self importance. I gone too much into my self. This could be a big problem solved for me if it is the case! :)

Your example of the how the universe saw you is VERY helpful thank you! It's like we try to be the best we can in any situation but our SELF gets in the way, or at least the false personality. We need to be able to observe the inner and the outer at the SAME time. It's the law of 3. To become that objective observer, which is real consciousness, and let that real 'I' control the situation. Y'know what, I think it just shows how easy it is to forget yourself. This is the difference between self observation and self remembering OSIT! And

Why oh why do I keep forgetting this? It just 'happens'. It's the natural state of 3D STS humanity.

You are absolutely correct in that the good friendships I have ever made was in this state of non-anticipation and letting the universe work it's magic :) it's a timeless state of joy and peace.

Life definitely does reflect how you interact with god/creation/the universe/whatever ya wanna call it. I think when you get to that point of self remembering regulary, you begin to see that you are not 'you', and what you think your identity is, it's really just a state of identification with the 3D body. You begin to see that you are The consciousness, not the body or the personality. Imagine the possibilities of this kind of existence as a permanent state of being? You could achieve so much!

Sorry, ran away with a bit of an illumination OSIT :)

 

[Paragon]

One aspect of this 'controlling your centerline' business is that I've noticed when passing a man or a group of males on a street, I always tense up and have an emotional reaction to their 'energy'. I would feel like a victim and would be submissive in my walking, so that I feel that they would have control of the situation, even if nothing happened which is obviously the case for the majority of the time. What would stop me from having this emotional energy flood the mechanical centre and misuse it? I am aware that EE would help, but what about shedding this 'victim' and 'weak' mentality and gaining control over my mechanical centre?

Hi Paragon, I think that this 'energy' that you refer to might be something your actually picking up that is objectively going on in the outside world such as an aggressive posturing that someone walking too close to you is projecting, but not necessarily directed to you personally. Or maybe it is directed to you personally. Or it could be in your imagination due to internal considering where this reaction is just running amok inside you with no real connection with what's objectively going on in the outside world so that your projecting something outwardly into the world from inside you. Or it could be both where your internal projections get reflected back and become a self fulfilling prophecy as it were. Lots of possibilities there. The important thing IMO is to not let the reaction control you mentally, emotionally, and physically since the reaction, left to itself, is anything but objective and showing proper discernment. When the reaction controls you then you lose control of your ' centerline' (this concept along with 'central line' and simultaneous attack and defense is the basis of Wing Chun) and then your open to be controlled by influences coming from the outside world.

Standing your ground, breathing right, not letting the reaction get the best of you and being as relaxed as possible in these kind of situations will, I think, help you to accuratly discern what's going on around and inside you, so that you can more objectively evaluate what's going on and respond (more) properly to each specific situation. I think the EE breathing, especially the pipe breathing will help you A LOT in being relaxed and not overreacting as well as the reading material already suggested. Martial arts, boxing, or self defense training will also help as long as you appreciate the true spirit of the arts and not get overconfident with the ego and all like that. Go easy on the training though especially when beginning. Hope this helps!

Hi kenlee,


What you say makes sense to me and I understand now how to apply it to my life. Doesn't matter what it is, but to let a reaction control you is a lack of discernment. Apart from obvious instinctive reactions that will save your life like if a car was about to run you over for example. It's all about objectivity when it comes to discernment! :)

I actually ordered the EE programme yesterday since I've kept been meaning to start it, so hopefully I will attempt some of it at least.

I remember one thing taught to me by my stepdad was that of just being relaxed when walking, being accepting of your self so that you are in control of any situation. He said people would react most of the time, positively to a relaxed energy. I mean it makes sense but I guess I was applying this and then subjectively thought that cos I adopted this approach that if anyone reacted 'negatively' to this, then it MUST have been because of this approach. And the majority of the time it was fine, just ONE or TWO occasions when I was attacked and someone shouted something at me. Self fulfilling prophecy indeed!

It has helped greatly, thank you! :)