A mountain of meat blocking my way back…?

[sitting]

My health is suffering. I ended up in the hospital for a day last week, with bowel problems, severe pain and blood pressure 200/90.

Hello Ynna,

That's in the danger zone but I'm sure you knew that.

I would like to strongly urge you to pick up "The Way Toward Health" by Jane Roberts. I say this because I suspect your exterior transition (believing in the merits of the Keto diet) has not truly been matched by your innermost system of beliefs. From your own description, those beliefs were lifelong, with strong moral & spiritual components deeply embedded within. Ideas of good versus evil.

Not so easily reversed, even if the conscious mind says okay, I've changed.

And unless your innermost beliefs concur with your exterior actions, there's potential for serious trouble ahead--I think. Your recent experience a clear warning sign.

I like to repost some previous excerpts if I may:

In "The Way Toward Health" I found this: "If we are talking about health, it is to your BELIEFS that we must look."

To be healthy, you must believe in health. A good physician is a changer of beliefs.

No one dies who has not made the decision to do so--and no disease is accepted blindly.

If you believe the body is somehow evil, you may punish it by nearly starving it to death--even though your diet might be considered normal by usual standards.

It is possible for your ideas to cause chemical reactions that impede your body's ability to accept nourishment.

If you believe the body is evil, the purest health food diet will or may, do you little good at all.


I suggest you think through this carefully and think through it well. All the best.

 

[Tui]

Sitting, I think you could be right.

I believe strongly in the power of the mind. Usually when I feel sickly I'll just tell myself: No, you are not feeling ill. In fact, you are perfectly healthy. And then I dismiss all further thoughts about illness and within minutes I feel great. In this way, I hardly ever get ill. Before this transition experiment, I haven't been to my doctor for about three or four years, but since deciding on transitioning to a meat diet again, I first developed a bladder infection, then this bowel "illness".

As you suspect, my innermost system of beliefs probably does not yet agree that meat-eating is spiritually and healthwise the best for me. And so I become sick and then I'm too scared to continue with the meat diet?

After reading your post, I immediately went to Amazon and bought the Kindle version of Jane Robert's book. I'll go to bed early tonight with this book.

Thanks so much.

Ynna

 

[Miss.K]

Hi Ynna,

Sorry to hear about you getting sick, I hope you are feeling better.

I might be wrong, but I think that being on the keto diet helps many things, but it is not like you can't evolve without.
I don't think Gurdieff was on the keto diet and he seemed pretty evolved.

For me, I found that being on the diet improved many things. I got more energy, and was a lot more stable mentally and emotionally, lost 20 kilos and felt as if I had gotten my youth back.
And of cause it makes sense that it is a help for whatever work one does to be stronger.

Then last year I completely slipped, and what I thought was a slip turned into a long time (my Achilles heal is chocolate icecream and cheese)
I have thought that what the Cs said about people disintegrating faster, can be how I fell so far for so long while thinking it was just a slip (milk products are very bad for me and I gained 20 kilos and felt very tired again) as it seems so strange to me that it could happen as I loved being on the diet, and felt it was quite easy to not eat what I was supposed to.

But though I can say that there is a big difference in being in ketosis and suffering from sugar shock, I wouldn't go as far as saying that one can't evolve or work while being on sugar.
I would say that it is easier to work hard when one has more energy, but that don't mean that one can't work when having less energy...

I do think there is something to believing in health as Sitting says. My parents always told us kids that we were super healthy and never got sick, and I was an obedient child and so seldom got sick,
-but though I really believed I wasn't allergic to anything, after cutting wheat, sugar, and milk products I realized that I was actually very allergic to those things (the difference in well being was huge) , so belief alone wont do it, though it does help :)

 

[sitting]

As you suspect, my innermost system of beliefs probably does not yet agree that meat-eating is spiritually and healthwise the best for me. And so I become sick and then I'm too scared to continue with the meat diet?

After reading your post, I immediately went to Amazon and bought the Kindle version of Jane Robert's book.

Hello Ynna,

I'm glad you got the book. But like any other book, please read it with an open mind--along with a critical mindset as well. It offers valuable insights I think, but it's not the final answer. No book can do that.

I've followed your postings with great interest. And I must confess I see a tough road ahead. Your previous convictions were so deep--held for so long--and transmitted to those dearest to you, that a true inner belief changeover will most likely not be easy. The severity of your recent physical reaction is perhaps one indication of the strong forces at work. Painful, but yet an invaluable wake-up call.

My comment here is not to discourage you in any way, but to simply point to the magnitude of the task. Something which should not be underestimated--or dealt with lightly.

The C's revelation of an adjacent path is tremendously encouraging--and perhaps worth looking into carefully. It did sound like you had a close call--at least from the blood pressure point of view.

I sincerely wish you a safe and successful journey.

 

[Foxx]

I'm sorry to hear about the reaction Ynna, and I hope you're starting to feel better!

I believe strongly in the power of the mind. Usually when I feel sickly I'll just tell myself: No, you are not feeling ill. In fact, you are perfectly healthy. And then I dismiss all further thoughts about illness and within minutes I feel great. In this way, I hardly ever get ill. Before this transition experiment, I haven't been to my doctor for about three or four years, but since deciding on transitioning to a meat diet again, I first developed a bladder infection, then this bowel "illness".

I'm not sure that this is the best approach, as you may just be suppressing an indication from the body that something isn't working right or that you have to make an adjustment or take it easy to give the body the time to repair itself or do something different to support it. Because of your reaction, it sounds like you may have to pay careful attention to your body and learn its language (which I think is best accomplished by research and self-observation--that is, what results are you seeing, what are the expected results, what could cause unexpected or undesirable results and what are possible problems that could arise, what could unexpected or undesirable results mean; leading to an educated guess for what's going on) and proceed with caution. Take care of yourself and be sure not to cause yourself harm.

If you have the option to work with an Applied Kinesiologist, then I think that might be worth checking out. After having worked with one for the past year to clear up a number of pretty significant health problems, they have some of the best tools in health diagnosis and repair that I've encountered (and I've worked with quite a few in various fields). I usually come in with one or more specific questions and usually some supplements that I've been testing out and get his feedback on which ones are working, what they might be doing, and how much I need to take--with the question, he'll come up with some ideas and then test me against them and get those results. I've personally had astounding results with the one I've worked with, but it also depended upon the quality of the questions I was asking. So that may be a useful avenue to pursue in terms of asking him what happened and even bringing meat in with you and asking if it's good for you and whether there's something you need to take with it to be able to properly digest it.

There's also the Paleo Physicians Network, which may be helpful: _http://paleophysiciansnetwork.com/

Another idea I had was that I think fish is probably the easiest meat to digest, so that may be an easier starting point for you than other meats.

Most importantly though, I don't want you to cause yourself harm, so I am just sharing some thoughts I had and some things that have worked for me in the hopes that they might be able to help you find the path that's right for you, and am not stating that I know what will or won't work for you.

Good luck and take care of yourself

 

[theos]

I'm sorry you're having problems, Ynna. It could be possible that your bowel troubles are coming from a diet high in fibrous content to diet low in fiber and it's taking your colon some time to catch up to having a lower volume and smaller sized stools. Also, your gut flora may be shifting a bit. If your flora are no longer fermenting fiber it can lead to some die-off reactions. A good probiotic would be helpful.

Check out gutsense.org which can give you more information on this. There's also a really great book called The Fiber Menace that goes into the trouble people have shifting to a low carb diet due to bowel troubles.

Edit: clarity

 

[RedFox]

I'm sorry to hear that Ynna

I agree what others have mentioned so far.

Another idea I had was that I think fish is probably the easiest meat to digest, so that may be an easier starting point for you than other meats.

This may be a good idea. Perhaps a small portion too. Thinking back a few years I remember some people transitioning to this diet had reactions to different meats, so if things aren't changing you may want to stop the lard (perhaps a reaction to pork?) and use butter instead.

Perhaps others can advise you better, but it's possible that you are lacking minerals? The health and wellness show on real sea salt mentioned blood pressure, so that may be worth checking out.
Do please proceed slowly and keep us posted!

 

[Tui]

Quote Miss.K April 20, 2015, 04:45:25 PM

Sorry to hear about you getting sick, I hope you are feeling better.

I might be wrong, but I think that being on the keto diet helps many things, but it is not like you can't evolve without.
I don't think Gurdieff was on the keto diet and he seemed pretty evolved.

For me, I found that being on the diet improved many things. I got more energy, and was a lot more stable mentally and emotionally, lost 20 kilos and felt as if I had gotten my youth back.
And of cause it makes sense that it is a help for whatever work one does to be stronger.

Then last year I completely slipped, and what I thought was a slip turned into a long time (my Achilles heal is chocolate icecream and cheese)
I have thought that what the Cs said about people disintegrating faster, can be how I fell so far for so long while thinking it was just a slip (milk products are very bad for me and I gained 20 kilos and felt very tired again) as it seems so strange to me that it could happen as I loved being on the diet, and felt it was quite easy to not eat what I was supposed to.

But though I can say that there is a big difference in being in ketosis and suffering from sugar shock, I wouldn't go as far as saying that one can't evolve or work while being on sugar.
I would say that it is easier to work hard when one has more energy, but that don't mean that one can't work when having less energy...

I do think there is something to believing in health as Sitting says. My parents always told us kids that we were super healthy and never got sick, and I was an obedient child and so seldom got sick,
-but though I really believed I wasn't allergic to anything, after cutting wheat, sugar, and milk products I realized that I was actually very allergic to those things (the difference in well being was huge) , so belief alone wont do it, though it does help

Hi Miss.K

It will be a great comfort to know that Gurdjieff was indeed not on the keto diet! - it is upsetting to suspect that one cannot evolve properly without being a meat-eater.

Your reaction to dairy makes it quite clear that it is not at all good for you, and flourishing like that on the keto diet - losing excess weight, getting your youth back and your excellent mental and emotional state - show that it is the perfect diet for you. Are you getting back there? I will aim for these results, too, and it helps tremendously when someone makes statements like these about the diet when one is feeling a bit down about it.

I know that I should also eliminate dairy from my diet - I also loved cheese, but I'm not buying it anymore and find - surprise! - that I am not craving it. I still have yoghurt occasionally (instead of daily) and milk in my coffee once or twice a day, but I'm definitely weaning myself and not feeling the loss emotionally. Cutting out much wheat (bread), showed me clearly that this is without doubt a bloating and unhealthy food. I do want to get off carbs as much as possible, although still depending on vegetarian food (fruit and vegetables) makes it difficult.

Thanks for your helpful comments!

Ynna

 

[Tui]

Quote from: Ynna on Yesterday at 04:15:28 PM
I believe strongly in the power of the mind. Usually when I feel sickly I'll just tell myself: No, you are not feeling ill. In fact, you are perfectly healthy. And then I dismiss all further thoughts about illness and within minutes I feel great. In this way, I hardly ever get ill. Before this transition experiment, I haven't been to my doctor for about three or four years, but since deciding on transitioning to a meat diet again, I first developed a bladder infection, then this bowel "illness".

Foxx quote:

I'm not sure that this is the best approach, as you may just be suppressing an indication from the body that something isn't working right or that you have to make an adjustment or take it easy to give the body the time to repair itself or do something different to support it. Because of your reaction, it sounds like you may have to pay careful attention to your body and learn its language (which I think is best accomplished by research and self-observation--that is, what results are you seeing, what are the expected results, what could cause unexpected or undesirable results and what are possible problems that could arise, what could unexpected or undesirable results mean; leading to an educated guess for what's going on) and proceed with caution. Take care of yourself and be sure not to cause yourself harm.

If you have the option to work with an Applied Kinesiologist, then I think that might be worth checking out. After having worked with one for the past year to clear up a number of pretty significant health problems, they have some of the best tools in health diagnosis and repair that I've encountered (and I've worked with quite a few in various fields). I usually come in with one or more specific questions and usually some supplements that I've been testing out and get his feedback on which ones are working, what they might be doing, and how much I need to take--with the question, he'll come up with some ideas and then test me against them and get those results. I've personally had astounding results with the one I've worked with, but it also depended upon the quality of the questions I was asking. So that may be a useful avenue to pursue in terms of asking him what happened and even bringing meat in with you and asking if it's good for you and whether there's something you need to take with it to be able to properly digest it.

There's also the Paleo Physicians Network, which may be helpful: _http://paleophysiciansnetwork.com/

Another idea I had was that I think fish is probably the easiest meat to digest, so that may be an easier starting point for you than other meats.

Most importantly though, I don't want you to cause yourself harm, so I am just sharing some thoughts I had and some things that have worked for me in the hopes that they might be able to help you find the path that's right for you, and am not stating that I know what will or won't work for you.

Good luck and take care of yourself

Foxx

I am pondering all the comments that believing alone that one is healthy is not enough, that possibly I am only suppressing the awareness of pain, and thus not giving attention to the root cause when symptoms of illness crop up.

The reason I believe in the power of the mind is because I have proved it to myself. For instance, for years and years, city pigeons used to make quite a racket on the roof or windowsills of my house. One of them - probably the leader - will usually go on and on, until you cannot think or hear anyone speak. One day I had more than enough and silently in my mind spoke firmly to the feathered chappy: "Look, pigeon, your calls are really disturbing me. Please go find another rooftop or tree at least a kilometre from here where you will be perfectly happy and can talk as much as you like. You can stay here only if you don't make a noise - if you need to talk to your friends and family, take them with you and go and do it elsewhere far away."

I repeated my request a few times. It worked. Within about half a minute the pigeon's noise cut off in mid "sentence". Starting up again, I repeated my request. It went on like that for a couple of weeks, but for the past year or so, I've mostly had glorious silence in that direction. The pigeons must have spread the word that the old lady in the house on the hill doesn't like too much pigeon-chatter, because they are all respecting my request. They will swoop down and come and sit quietly on the windowsills or rooftop, and then fly off without making a sound. I do hear them in the distance, though!

Maybe that is the way we humans should learn to communicate with each other. Not commanding each other in this way, of course; but silent, gentle talks and requests should we be in need of advice or help. Communicating through the Forum gives warm comfort when you see all the familiar names and read their latest news and what members are thinking about or going through. Still, telepathy is probably the way of networking in the future. For a specially connected group, it will also be the best way to communicate in times of danger, or when members are spread out over great distances when all technology has been "fried".

Anyway. I have long believed that one can regulate one's health in this way (and then tried the method on the birds). Just saying to a headache or pain that had popped up: "Thanks for warning me that something is wrong. You can go now, I will take care of my health." Then I go into a meditative state and deep breathing, thanking the Universe and Infinite Intelligence for the excellent health of my body, that every cell in my body is healthy, strong and rejuvenated, breathing out all toxins and pain, and breathing in health directly from the healing energies of the Universe around me. Sounds all New Agey, I know, but in this way I usually stay healthy and strong, also trying to adjust my life style where I have possibly started slipping up.

My life style lately brought about much stress and much less attention to what is happening regarding my health. Apart from trying to become a meat-eater, I have recently sold my house after it was on the market for a long time (nearly a year - great stress!), and I am at present going through the rather nightmare process of finalising the sale, sorting out the contents of a big house and finding another, much smaller place to live, so stress is probably a great factor here?

But thinking about the comments here, it seems that I could indeed be depending too much on the power of the mind and neglecting action in real life concerning health matters?!

Perhaps I should start over? Read up more to prepare myself for a better and slower transition. Maybe not worry about the diet transition and "evolving" too much at present? Rather move from my present home and get settled elsewhere first, to lessen the stress.

Thanks also for mentioning the possible benefits of kinesiology. I read up about it - it could indeed be a helpful treatment for stress and nutrition problems.

Ynna

 

[Laura]

For all you know, your body is starting a major breakdown thanks to years of vegetarianism and there is no relation between the introduction of some bacon and your illness.

However, it should be noted, again and again and again, that you should not do anything that you do not thoroughly understand. I'm 63 and I began the transition in August of 2008 and it took me until two years ago to make it to ketogenic. At your age and with your history, you might do better with the "Nourishing traditions" cookbook first and then move on to Paleo. You may never want - or need - to go ketogenic.

 

[Tui]

Odyssey quote:

I'm sorry you're having problems, Ynna. It could be possible that your bowel troubles are coming from a diet high in fibrous content to diet low in fiber and it's taking your colon some time to catch up to having a lower volume and smaller sized stools. Also, your gut flora may be shifting a bit. If your flora are no longer fermenting fiber it can lead to some die-off reactions. A good probiotic would be helpful.

Check out gutsense.org which can give you more information on this. There's also a really great book called The Fiber Menace that goes into the trouble people have shifting to a low carb diet due to bowel troubles.

Odyssey, thanks for recommending The Fiber Menace - luckily it is also available in Kindle format so I bought it after reading the information on Amazon. It is interesting that the author - a chemist, Konstantin Monastyrsky, who seems to have pioneered the fields of forensic nutrition and nutritional intervention, tried vegetarianism (high fibre, lots of water) for about six years to eliminate his digestive and other problems, and only thereby worsening his conditions (reading about this on his website gutsense.org is very helpful).

The Q&A section on gutsense.org is also very informative - actually, the Q&A's are a must read. It is also mentioned, as in my case: "As people get older, the digestive organs undergo a substantial transformation, particularly on a high-fiber diet."

Thank you for your recommendations, Odyssey!

Ynna

 

[Tui]

Quote from: Foxx on Yesterday at 03:51:06 AM
Another idea I had was that I think fish is probably the easiest meat to digest, so that may be an easier starting point for you than other meats.

RedFox quote:

This may be a good idea. Perhaps a small portion too. Thinking back a few years I remember some people transitioning to this diet had reactions to different meats, so if things aren't changing you may want to stop the lard (perhaps a reaction to pork?) and use butter instead.

Perhaps others can advise you better, but it's possible that you are lacking minerals? The health and wellness show on real sea salt mentioned blood pressure, so that may be worth checking out.
Do please proceed slowly and keep us posted!

RedFox

In my meat and fish eating days, I used to like lobster and haddock. I will try haddock first, instead of the lard. Grill a portion with butter and sea (or Himalayan?) salt. It should deliver a good amount of the daily protein. I'll check out the sea salt show, concerning high blood pressure.

Thanks!

Ynna

 

[Tui]

Laura, Today at 03:04:57 PM

For all you know, your body is starting a major breakdown thanks to years of vegetarianism and there is no relation between the introduction of some bacon and your illness.

However, it should be noted, again and again and again, that you should not do anything that you do not thoroughly understand. I'm 63 and I began the transition in August of 2008 and it took me until two years ago to make it to ketogenic. At your age and with your history, you might do better with the "Nourishing traditions" cookbook first and then move on to Paleo. You may never want - or need - to go ketogenic.

Hello Laura

Stress, I suspect, is the main factor for things happening to my health lately. I should have left the experiments with animal food until after I have finalised my pressing personal affairs (wrapping up the house sale, sorting and storage, moving to a new place and settling in...) All this really piled on too many changes in too many areas of my life, all at once. I don't think that my body is starting a major breakdown because of all those years of vegetarianism - although it could be looming - as I have been feeling very healthy since last week's hospital experience. I had a big farewell party last Sunday, saying goodbye to the house where I lived happily for more than 20 years, and even though it was a lot of work, I enjoyed it and thoroughly relaxed with my friends and family, so I'm feeling happy and well at present.

However, I also think that you have a good point, in that I am not ready for the transition to a ketogenic diet because of a lack of understanding the bodily process and all that is involved with this diet - Sitting is probably right when commenting that although outwardly willing, inwardly I have not yet accepted that meat-eating is best for me. I have to give more attention to these points. I can see now that I was rushing it (frightenend I might die before accomplishing it?) - it took you four or five years to transition and I wanted to do it in a few months.

And quote:

"At your age and with your history, you might do better with the "Nourishing traditions" cookbook first and then move on to Paleo. You may never want - or need - to go ketogenic."

This remark has been like a refreshing splash of cool sea water onto a hot sun-baked skin. It reinforces what the C's said, that one can also follow an "adjacent path [diet]". I went and read up on this cookbook on the internet, then got hold of the book to study it more deeply. And apply it properly soon, of course. Thank you!

Ynna

 

[sitting]

Stress, I suspect, is the main factor for things happening to my health lately. I should have left the experiments with animal food until after I have finalised my pressing personal affairs (wrapping up the house sale, sorting and storage, moving to a new place and settling in...) All this really piled on too many changes in too many areas of my life, all at once.

Hello Ynna,

I'm right behind you.

After my wife's move to CA 3 months ago (to be with daughter who's expecting) I found myself all alone, in a large house as well. A home I loved and enjoyed for 17 years. But time to downside and move on.

I understand well your feelings of attachment--and know precisely the headache of sorting and storage. But I'm doing my very best to keep things light in my heart. Quick on my feet. And sadness to a minimum.

And it seems to be working--although at times, tears do flow unexpectedly.

It's all about one's mindset really. As Siddhartha taught so well--all things are impermanent in life. Clinging a major impediment. Attachment a serious handicap. I'm happy and willing to let go. And be free.

Thanks to Laura, I see that what's just right around the corner is so so so much more exciting.
As they say ... bring it on!

 

[Miss.K]

Quote Miss.K April 20, 2015, 04:45:25 PM

Sorry to hear about you getting sick, I hope you are feeling better.

I might be wrong, but I think that being on the keto diet helps many things, but it is not like you can't evolve without.
I don't think Gurdieff was on the keto diet and he seemed pretty evolved.

For me, I found that being on the diet improved many things. I got more energy, and was a lot more stable mentally and emotionally, lost 20 kilos and felt as if I had gotten my youth back.
And of cause it makes sense that it is a help for whatever work one does to be stronger.

Then last year I completely slipped, and what I thought was a slip turned into a long time (my Achilles heal is chocolate icecream and cheese)
I have thought that what the Cs said about people disintegrating faster, can be how I fell so far for so long while thinking it was just a slip (milk products are very bad for me and I gained 20 kilos and felt very tired again) as it seems so strange to me that it could happen as I loved being on the diet, and felt it was quite easy to not eat what I was supposed to.

But though I can say that there is a big difference in being in ketosis and suffering from sugar shock, I wouldn't go as far as saying that one can't evolve or work while being on sugar.
I would say that it is easier to work hard when one has more energy, but that don't mean that one can't work when having less energy...

I do think there is something to believing in health as Sitting says. My parents always told us kids that we were super healthy and never got sick, and I was an obedient child and so seldom got sick,
-but though I really believed I wasn't allergic to anything, after cutting wheat, sugar, and milk products I realized that I was actually very allergic to those things (the difference in well being was huge) , so belief alone wont do it, though it does help

Hi Miss.K

It will be a great comfort to know that Gurdjieff was indeed not on the keto diet! - it is upsetting to suspect that one cannot evolve properly without being a meat-eater.

Your reaction to dairy makes it quite clear that it is not at all good for you, and flourishing like that on the keto diet - losing excess weight, getting your youth back and your excellent mental and emotional state - show that it is the perfect diet for you. Are you getting back there? I will aim for these results, too, and it helps tremendously when someone makes statements like these about the diet when one is feeling a bit down about it.

I know that I should also eliminate dairy from my diet - I also loved cheese, but I'm not buying it anymore and find - surprise! - that I am not craving it. I still have yoghurt occasionally (instead of daily) and milk in my coffee once or twice a day, but I'm definitely weaning myself and not feeling the loss emotionally. Cutting out much wheat (bread), showed me clearly that this is without doubt a bloating and unhealthy food. I do want to get off carbs as much as possible, although still depending on vegetarian food (fruit and vegetables) makes it difficult.

Thanks for your helpful comments!

Ynna

Thanks for asking Ynna :)

I am getting back, but I just had a freakout about being stressed about moving and ate ice cream yesterday
So I'm not really there yet (it takes very little added stress to throw me off track), but good news is that I move to a place with an oven soon, and so I can make roasts that to me are so delicious that ice cream looses some of it's power over me, and also there won't be a shop that is open till 12 at night with my favorite ice cream just around the corner (aw gawd I really have the spine of a jellyfish sometimes, it's so embarrassing )

-edit- spelling mistake