A Psychopathic Christmas Carol

[Zaphod]

Wondering if anyone can offer any thoughts on this .. I must admit I feel a bit stuck

My daughter's boyfriend stayed at our house a year or so a go for about 6 months - I don't remember having any say in this development, but that's another issue. During this period an event happened where money disappeared from my wallet. Now, I'm not someone who is forgetful about money - how much I've got, what I've spent, where I've put it and so on, so at the point I opened my wallet and saw what was in it, it only took 5 seconds or so to run through to the logical conclusion that he had stolen it.. there simply weren't any alternatives. Anyway, I got utterly sick of having the bloke around the house and despite the promises to save up for deposit to rent their own accommodation, neither of them seemed to have the requisite number of IQ points to realise that in order to save money, you need to stop spending it.

So I lent them the deposit. I only got half of it back, but again . .water under the bridge, that's life. They move in to their house which is no more than a hundred yards or so down the road, so they visit quite often. My daughter gets pregnant by this bloke about the middle of last year and while the females of the household are holding group hug sessions over this news, my heart is sinking.. am I never going to get rid of this .. (fill in the expletive at your leisure). So anyway, it gets to Christmas and as you'd expect their coming and going from the house on a regular basis. For New Year's eve we'd decided to get a send-out (chinese, it was very nice ), but that particular place only deals with cash, so I drew out a specific amount of money before Christmas (£100) with a specific purpose.. paying for the chinese.

So anyway, the day before New Year's Eve I opened my wallet it's there. New year's eve I open my wallet annnd ... half of it is gone. Again, this took all of 5 seconds to run through the joined up logic before I exploded a mouthful of expletives about how I have once again been ripped off by this same ... well, you get the picture. Everyone else in the kitchen is aghast - are you sure you haven't mislaid, spent, miscounted it etc etc. After running through the scenario of what had happened, everyone else was of the same opinion about what had happened and who the culprit was.. there simply weren't any alternatives

Now, I don't have tangible evidence, so it's hard to confront him, even though his culpability is logically inescapable as a conclusion. I don't want to play any part in my daughter's decision to leave him (even she's aware all is not right with this bloke) - there would be repercussions from that and if I confront him and it creates a shit storm, she will leave him. I'm certain she will leave him sooner or later anyway, but what with being pregnant, that is going to make her life quite difficult - so that decision has to be hers and hers alone. However, it's difficult to let it slide .. if your money isn't safe in your own house because someone you've tried to welcome in to your family has the moral code of a hyena, basically nothing's safe.. one of the major benefits of having a home is utterly compromised. This is of course not to mention, the massive slap in the face it is after the vast amount of help we freely provided to get them up on their feet.

If nothing is done, potentially this dynamic could continue in perpetuity, and I'm sure the fact that he has his claws in to our daughter is something he's fully aware of and exploiting.. he knows we can't do a damn thing without hurting our daughter far more than we'd ever hurt him so the chances of us sucking it up, living with it and continuing to welcome him in to the household is the most likely outcome - whatever our suspicions.. So here I sit.. I'm thinking of domestic CCTV but it's an utter pain and I really shouldn't have to secure my house like a fortress against people who are virtually members of the family. Anyone have any thoughts or similar experiences?

 

[loreta]

I am sorry you are in the middle of this situation. I am not an expert, so I can not advise you. I just remember a very peculiar situation with an uncle, some years ago, who abused my hospitality. He was so abusive that finally it was like I was living in his apartment, and not the contrary. So one day I told him to leave my apartment NOW. He was very mad, and yes, he stole some object in my kitchen that I was very fond of it. But the only way to act, for me, was confronting him: I was not her daughter, I was not her cook, I was tired of him and his egoistical comportment so take your things and go away.

After that experience I was some time very sick but I survived. Now, your situation is different but someone is abusing your generosity and hospitality. I think, and others will help you better than me surely, but one way is confronting face to face the culprit. Maybe I am wrong, maybe there are other ways concerning this type of problematic situation. But why not to take this guy and simply ask him if he stole the money? To see his reaction. And to tell him that this situation has to stop.

I wish you good luck. Hope everything will take a good turn.

 

[Buddy]

Wondering if anyone can offer any thoughts on this .. I must admit I feel a bit stuck
[...]

My wife and I raised three kids who are now fully grown, married and living their own lives. While our youngest daughter was still living with us, it was very frustrating allowing her some consequences for making her own decisions and being responsible for her choices. One of her boyfriends was a real sweet-talker who lived a town away and daughter really fell for him but he was a bum who lived at home with parents, owned nothing but a little musical equipment and had no plans for a future. I found all this out by talking to him myself.

Additionally, there was something else about him we couldn't put our fingers on, but my wife also started noticing a few of her pain pills and some money she had in the house would go missing every time he visited. We didn't confront boyfriend directly, but we made daughter aware of our concerns and that we thought it was unacceptable and that we would be figuring out what to do about it.

Since we didn't trust him, I made a full description of both cars I noticed him driving, their license plate numbers, his address, phone numbers and any other identifying information I could get. We also consulted other family members until we found someone who knew the boy's family in that town and could give some more input about who they all were. Further, anytime he came to ask permission to take my daughter out, he would be asked to provide all the information about where they were going, phone numbers where she could be reached in an emergency and were given a curfew. Also, as long as he was in our home, neither myself or my wife would let him get too far out of eyesight.

Needless to say, he soon became paranoid and felt we didn't like him so he tried to become more secretive which aggravated me even more. Apparently his own paranoia brought out the worst in himself, so when he began acting with overt and covert-aggressive behaviors, my daughter saw his unloving side and it didn't take long before she started dating someone else who was interested in her.

Did my wife and I handle things appropriately? I don't know, this was years ago and we felt we were just doing the best we could. Maybe we were just lucky things didn't get worse.

However, it's difficult to let it slide .. if your money isn't safe in your own house because someone you've tried to welcome in to your family has the moral code of a hyena, basically nothing's safe.. one of the major benefits of having a home is utterly compromised. This is of course not to mention, the massive slap in the face it is after the vast amount of help we freely provided to get them up on their feet.

If nothing is done, potentially this dynamic could continue in perpetuity...

I think that's a good enough reason to bring your concerns to the attention of daughter and/or boyfriend - perhaps in a non-threatening way if possible - because I believe the least we can do as parents is let kids know we are not as blind and naive as some of them think we are.

Others may have better advice, though, so FWIW.

 

[Carl]

Given the amount of money and energy he has leached from you with no equal repayment, including probable thefts, and that you let him stay rent-free for six months, it looks like you need to stand up for your free will here before he pushes things any further.

I must admit my initial reaction was to kick him out and shut the door for good, but it's not always so easy. Buddy made some good points about how to deal with it strategically. First I would discuss it further with the members of your household, let them in on the facts, and hopefully get them on your side.

Lots of observation on this guy would be good, and I actually like the idea of a camera. If you could get hard, damning evidence of what is happening in reality, then you can show it to others and let the truth speak for itself. This would give your daughter the necessary information (should she choose to accept it) without invading her free will.

Speaking of your daughter, you haven't said very much about her. Do you think she possibly plays a part in the theft, consciously or not? Is she showing any more signs of pathology, and could her seemingly irresponsible attitude be because she is being ponerized by the boyfriend? What is she like as a person, and has she changed since their meeting?

Wishing you luck in this situation.

 

[Minas Tirith]

Given the amount of money and energy he has leached from you with no equal repayment, including probable thefts, and that you let him stay rent-free for six months, it looks like you need to stand up for your free will here before he pushes things any further.

It is a difficult situation, but I completely agree with Carlisle.

I didn't understand if it is planned that they pay the remainder of the deposit back? This is a first step and it should be possible for them to pay in installments if they are not able to come up with the lump sum at once.

Regarding the stolen money I would arrange a meeting between the three of you and tell them what has happened (money disappearing from your wallet). Make the statement that you do not have any proof to who took it, and that you have talked to other family-members as well regarding the issue, but that you have zero tolerance for these kind of actions. This doesn't bring the money back, nor will it prompt a confession, but you have opened your mouth and drawn a line.

I don't want to play any part in my daughter's decision to leave him (even she's aware all is not right with this bloke) - there would be repercussions from that and if I confront him and it creates a -shite- storm, she will leave him. I'm certain she will leave him sooner or later anyway, but what with being pregnant, that is going to make her life quite difficult - so that decision has to be hers and hers alone.

It could also play out another way, she "leaving" you over the what she might deem unjust accusations towards her boyfriend, so you don't know.

If nothing is done, potentially this dynamic could continue in perpetuity, and I'm sure the fact that he has his claws in to our daughter is something he's fully aware of and exploiting.. he knows we can't do a damn thing without hurting our daughter far more than we'd ever hurt him so the chances of us sucking it up, living with it and continuing to welcome him in to the household is the most likely outcome - whatever our suspicions..

You can only stand up for yourself, your daughter has to decide what she wants to "do" for herself. But draw into consideration that your daughter might be much more "hurt" later by you not telling her from the beginning what kind of bloke you think he is ...

(I am just throwing Is in here, sorry for the abruptness)

Wishing you the best of luck,

M.T.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

This is awful, Zaphod. How is this guy getting his paws on your wallet?

 

[Laura]

This is awful, Zaphod. How is this guy getting his paws on your wallet?

Good question. I think that, after the first experience, you would have learned to "lock up the silver" when this guy is going to be there.

I think I'd be so hostile about it ON PRINCPLE, that I would set a trap for the guy with a camera involved... And then I'd call the cops and have him arrested.

 

[angelburst29]

Sorry to hear about the situation this guy has perpetuated on your family Zaphod, especially the breach of security in stealing cash from your wallet. Once was bad enough but twice is pushing the limits and both within a short timespan. The guy has no morals and is nothing more than a con artist.

You give no details of this guy, other than he moved in for 6 months and only left when you loaned the deposit for an apartment for him and your Daughter to share. Even with that, it's no more than a hundred yards or so down the road and to top it off, now your daughter is pregnant. Where's his family in all of this and is he employed?

Just my opinion, the first mistake made was allowing him to stay for 6 months? I don't see where any terms, conditions or obligations were involved? There's the impression, he latched onto your Daughter, used her as a way and means to coax the family to accommodate him and is nothing more than a freeloader and con artist to keep his lifestyle flowing (with very little input on his end?) I suspect, once the baby is born, financial issues will multiply and they will have to move "back-in" unable to afford their current lifestyle. Once that happens, he'll have a free ride for as long as YOU allow it. If he's using your Daughter, he'll only be in the relationship, as long as it meets HIS needs - other than that - he walks and never looks back. Your Daughter is left holding the bag?

It's a difficult situation. Confronting him face to face on the stolen money - only gives him the satisfaction of denying his involvement, for you have no tangible proof. It also alerts him that you're fully aware of what he's doing behind your back. At present, he may only suspect you're wise to him but wouldn't hesitate to do it again. I would use the opportunity, as it stands now, to come up with a plan like Laura has suggested, not only using a video (motion detector) to catch him in the act but to mark the bills in such a way, as to be able to readily identify the currency. Log the serial numbers of the paper money and place them in a safe place away from the money in the wallet. Then set up a scenario that mimics the conditions that he took advantage of the other two times. In a sense, it could be looked upon as entrapment but since he has mastered this deception, I would use the same scenario to-out-him-out. When you suspect he took the bait and has left, check to see if anything is missing and that the video has him in the act, then immediately call the police. Your Daughter may have to face some harsh realities but in the end, you're also taking steps to protect her and somewhere along the line, she'll figure that out.

It wouldn't hurt to check if he has a police record?

 

[Hildegarda]

he knows we can't do a damn thing without hurting our daughter far more than we'd ever hurt him so the chances of us sucking it up, living with it and continuing to welcome him in to the household is the most likely outcome - whatever our suspicions.. So here I sit.. I'm thinking of domestic CCTV but it's an utter pain and I really shouldn't have to secure my house like a fortress against people who are virtually members of the family. Anyone have any thoughts or similar experiences?

Zaphod, coincidentally, I've been going over some of my own experiences and thinking about this exact type of situation for the past few days.

People are generally very reluctant to confront a scheming sneak, even if their relationships, safety and peace are at stake.

My MIL's husband had gone into her parents' house during a family member's funeral, and stole their jewelry and other valuables. They said nothing to her for 20 years, and only disclosed it long after he left her in a messy divorce. So all the while, they knew what he was up to, that he was a crook and a piece of work, but they let her go blind into the battle and only transferred their hurt and disappointment on their kids whom they rejected in various ways over these same years.

In my own family, my father is a serial cheater and has a love child with a woman 18 years his junior. My mother passed away 2 years ago, and he started openly hanging out with, and now living, together with that woman almost right away, in a condo that I co-own with him, without ever letting me know about any of that (I live in a different country and it is easy for him to avoid talking to me). The numerous friends of either my mother and my father has said nothing to me, despite numerous prompts. I wonder if they ever plan to open their mouths.

In workplace, people would routinely go straight to a supervisor to complain about any issue, however trivial, rather than have an open conversation about it with a coworker. As a result, people never find out who complained but suddenly get some umbrella policy change dropped on them from above. If your kid ever sold GS cookies, it's pretty common for parents to offer a chance for their coworkers to buy some. Most workplaces are fine with it, but my husband's office issues a special policy to prohibit all such fundraising, because someone complained that they feel obligated to buy even though they do not want to do it. I mean, really? These are just a few examples.

I strongly feel that you should tell your daughter about this, the sooner the better. True, she likely will not appreciate you being critical of her partner. It would be much worse, however, for her to find out later on that everyone around her knew that she's been had, but instead of watching her back, they kept this vital information away from her. You may feel that you want to protect her or not to impinge on her free will. But on the receiving end, it makes the person feel infantilized and patronized. It also may enable an involvement to go on longer than it would otherwise. Lastly, if there are other people living in your house, especially underage, their safety is your responsibility and covering up for the thief may compromise it. If he steals, he likely is engaged in other unsavory behavior.

How to do it is another matter. Having CCTV cameras may actually be handy, because it will give you proof and entrap the guy. Regardless, were I in your shoes, I would assure my daughter and her child of my continuous love and support, and that she doesn't have to choose between her parents and the father of her child. It's just that her partner is no longer welcome in your home for your and other's safety. I wouldn't mention getting back the security deposit of other money now. It could either be chucked up to lessons learned, or kept up my sleeve for later negotiation should a need arise. But going forward, I would draw a line and mean it.

Hoping for a speedy and satisfactory resolution,

 

[Zaphod]

This is awful, Zaphod. How is this guy getting his paws on your wallet?

Well of course, after the first time it happened we did indeed 'lock up the silver' as Laura has suggested, but the last time this happened was 1 and a half years ago. So the situation you run in to is that within your own home, you have to remember to lock up the silver not only as a daily event, but throughout the day, every day for the rest of eternity.. although you could say that's the sensible thing to do in these circumstances, it's just not really in keeping with human nature.

The first time it happened my wallet was left in the kitchen, he was living there at the time so the rest is fairly straight forward
The second time the wallet was in my bedroom.. yeah you would've thought that should be reasonably safe.. What I think happened was that he picked up some groceries for us and 'kindly' offered to put them up in the freezer.. which takes him right past the door of the bedroom

 

[Zaphod]

Sorry to hear about the situation this guy has perpetuated on your family Zaphod, especially the breach of security in stealing cash from your wallet. Once was bad enough but twice is pushing the limits and both within a short timespan. The guy has no morals and is nothing more than a con artist.

You give no details of this guy, other than he moved in for 6 months and only left when you loaned the deposit for an apartment for him and your Daughter to share. Even with that, it's no more than a hundred yards or so down the road and to top it off, now your daughter is pregnant. Where's his family in all of this and is he employed?

Ok, let me see if I can put in some details here. Most of what you've surmised is largely correct with the additional colourful trait of being a shoplifter (he did it once while my son was out with him .. yes my son was utterly incensed and has subsequently refused to have anything to do with him). He also does erratically damaging acts with no apparent regard for consequence. On top of this there's the usual stuff you'd expect like superficial charm. His family have pretty much disowned him (it would have been nice to have known this snippet sooner than I did, but I suspect it wouldn't have made much difference in the long run as my daughter was in the driving seat at the time).

The moving in for 6 months caused more than a few tense and terse moments but because they had plans to move out we decided to just let it ride rather than cause a blowout. Once it had got to Christmas that year and they were blowing extravagant amounts on each other's presents, it was pretty obvious that those 'plans' were just words.. So discussions were had and they agreed to find somewhere else to live. That was going ok until the landlord needed money upfront which they couldn't provide on time. I didn't want to return to the situation we'd had with them living there so I fronted the money. This was a loan which they paid back half of. My daughter got pregnant and they found themselves working to a tight budget. At that point I had to forgive the other half of the debt, at least for the moment

There isn't the slightest doubt in my mind that he's responsible for this. No one else in my family; and the others who were in my house at that time, have any traits in their psychological make-up that would be even remotely compatible with stealing. This is what's causing a lot of the frustration: it's him, not only is it from the event sequence an inescapable conclusion, he's the only one who would even think of doing it.. but I still can't prove it.

Without a doubt, even if the man couldn't be certified as psychopathic, his behavioural traits are such that it really wouldn't make much odds anyway. I would say the relationship is probably doomed. We're sitting here waiting for our daughter to reach the emotional point where she accepts this for herself. Until then, we really can't do that much without causing potentially irreparable rifts in the family. While there is a chance it isn't him, my daughter is going to cling to that, and me not having proof will appear to her as a 'chance it isn't him' .. so taking a hard confrontational line under those circumstances will be interpretted by my daughter as us perpetrating an injustice against the pair of them and she will react in a way which protects her relationship by distancing themselves from us.

We're monitoring what's going on and of course, if certain lines are crossed that will no longer matter - the gloves will come off, but while there's still a reasonable chance of getting my family out of the other side of this saga relatively unscathed, it is my absolute duty to take that line, no matter how many injustices we end up having to swallow as a result.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Maybe it would be wise for you to consider installing a camera in your home, Zaphod. If you're going to continue to allow this guy to enter the premises, then be smart about it and catch him in the act, proof in the puddin'.
Get him busted on video dead to rights.
It's ridiculous to think one has to hide their wallet in their own home, but in these times, and in a situation such as this, if it were me, I'd do it, until this matter gets resolved and the thief is caught.
Leaving your wallet in a predictable, common place where this guy apparently knows to look, is making it very easy for him to rob you, again and again.

I think you need to out-think the thief, Zaphod. Then, instead of you being the cause of potential problems between him and your daughter, it will be his own actions to blame - not yours.
Doing nothing or continuing to leave your wallet lying around in places he obviously knows to look is just setting yourself up for more victimization by this guy, or so it seems to me.

If it were me, I'd forbid him in my home, period.
If you can't do that, then a surveillance camera does seem to be the common sense way to go, imo.

 

[Nancy2feathers]

Hi Zaphod. Sorry to hear about your situation. I personally think the cameras are a good idea too. I was wondering if your daughter has a

key to your home? If she does, then he may have one too or had one made. I would change the locks ASAP. If he`s stealing your money

what would be next?! It might be a blow to both of them to change the locks, but you need piece of mind to know he`s not entering your

home when no one is home. FWIW.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Yep, or you can add a lock to go with your existing locks. Then, even if they have keys, they can't just walk right in, whether you're home or not. Sends a message without saying a word....

 

[Zaphod]

Many thanks to everyone for your thoughts and experiences, it really does help. I was talking it over with my wife last night and I think what I'm going to do involves different aspects of what various people have suggested.

I'm going to install motion sensitive CCTV. I don't want to but it's the only way of resolving the 'who' question to anybody's and everybody's satisfaction

Once my daughter has given birth (a month after or so), I shall have the 'big talk' with her and her boyfriend, explain my utter intolerance of the situation, and that if proof is found of who is doing this, I'll contact the police and relentlessly pursue this to the full extent of what's open to me (this isn't necessarily the truth and circumstances would influence what I did in that situation but they don't need to know that - and it very well may end up being true anyway). This is likely to cause some discomfort, but I think it will be ok if I explain that the situation has put me in the position where everyone outside the immediate circle of family is going to be treated the same way and has to be .. I have no options.

At that point, I'll also take my daughter's key back .. once the big talk has happened I'm fairly sure she'll understand that again, we really have no alternatives if we're going to protect ourselves.

I won't change the locks .. at least not yet. I accept he may have copied the key but so far he's had no reason to. I'll make it clear that there is no more just walking in to the house and treating it as your own. You knock on the door and wait, if there's no reply you go away.. any digression from this will be treated as an act of hostility

Anyway, what I'm also going to do is report back to this thread as things unfold to explain what went well and what didn't go so well and why. From talking to others over the past few days it seems this dynamic is very common.

Many thanks again for your help and sympathy