A self observation. Depression, self pity and vampires

[RedFox]

Hey all
I've been mulling over sharing this. I had a read through anything relevent on the forum already about what I observed, and the only thing close was this thread The First Victory. Comments on LKJ's "Depression as a Stepping Stone?" http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=2832.0 but I will come back to this later.

Last week was my birthday (30 yay!), I noticed some old moods/thought patterns coming back a few days before it, which supprised me.
On previouse birthdays for the last few years (and christmasses) I've felt incredably depressed, even when surrounded by family/friends/loved ones.
It actually seemed to be quite selfish because the associated thoughts that drove the self of depression deeper where always associated with the presents given to me.

Knowing this I was quite supprised to have the old feeling/thoughts come back (an old program running?), so tried to put it to the back of my mind.
Over the days before my birthday I observed that it only showed up mostly when I was tired/alone/night, and that as time went on it intensified. It would fade again but be back with avengence the next day.

I was reaching the point where I could see I was going to react to the program and take it out on someone. This distressed me alot....and made the depression worse.
I decided I needed to work out the mechanics of this or it'd run me. I am reading Unholy Hungers at the moment, and noticed that the 'taking out' of the program on someone else was vampiric. It appeared to be a demand for pitty.
A feeding on pitty. Self importance??
I then realised that if it was a vampiric demand for pitty, the build up was because it was taking my own internal resources through not letting it take others. I was pittying myself...and thus feeding it.

The sence of overwhelming depression then vanished, and turned into an ache in my guts. Interesting.
I resolved to be aware of this in future, and not to accept pitty from others or myself.
Any sence of pitty would indicate the feeding had started again through that method.


A second observation came whilst mulling over sharing this here (I do that alot). I concluded I don't know if its of value as I have still to make my way through allt he books to gurdjieff. I also realised this was a lazy excuse for not doing the work myself. 'If I post this on the forum it may be of use!!' 'Is it of use?' I had to admit I didn't have enough data to know. 'But I've not had time to read the books with the data in'...and thus the lie found. I have the time, I just havn't done it yet.
Also there is an underlying need to please to feel accepted (probably linked to then feeding of pitty)...and possibly other vampiric motives there I can't pin point yet (time to finish that book!)
It was a bit of a wake up call.

Having then read thread linked above, I'd like to ask for some help on this.
Where my observations accurate, or useful (to me or others, especially in relation to depression as the first victory) or was it self calming/distructive? i.e. did they counter a possibility for a first victory.
I'd appretiate feedback on this, and any other observations.
Or if you should say 'go do the work to find your answer' then that would also be valuable feedback.

Thanks

 

[PepperFritz]

Re: A self observation. Depression, self pitty and vampires

Hi RedFox:

What is not clear to me from your post is WHY you are feeling "self-pity" and/or wanting "pity" from others. It's an odd choice of words, one that seems to be avoiding talking about/ thinking about the underlying emotions involved. I have a sense that you may be looking for a quick-fix for the behaviour without having to delve into often-painful self-examination required to discover the "mechanics" involved.

Perhaps you do not wish to get into specific personal details, but I think it is necessary to identify the emotions behind your behaviour in order to discover the "program" involved. What emotions accompany and/or precipitate the "self-pity" and "depression"? Do you feel, for example, sad, angry, ashamed, hurt, grief-stricken, etc? What specific events, people, interactions, etc. "trigger" the depression and self-pity?

These are just the questions and thoughts that come to my mind when reading your post....

 

[anart]

Re: A self observation. Depression, self pitty and vampires

I am reading Unholy Hungers at the moment, and noticed that the 'taking out' of the program on someone else was vampiric. It appeared to be a demand for pitty.
A feeding on pitty. Self importance??
I then realised that if it was a vampiric demand for pitty, the build up was because it was taking my own internal resources through not letting it take others. I was pittying myself...and thus feeding it.

The sence of overwhelming depression then vanished, and turned into an ache in my guts. Interesting.
I resolved to be aware of this in future, and not to accept pitty from others or myself.
Any sence of pitty would indicate the feeding had started again through that method.

Hi RedFox,

To the extent that you applied the material you read in Unholy Hungers to your own behavior/feelings/motivations/reactions, and did not take your 'mood' out on others, I think it is beneficial. It is taking one step from the theoretical to the application in real time - which is really the whole point.

Now, the key may be to push through the excuses, laziness and distractions that have kept you from finishing these books and moving forward in their application. If you can use this one small example, which resulted in results you could observe and benefit from, as fuel to learn more - then, yes - beneficial is an understatement.

Our largest (and often only) barriers are internal and so familiar that we don't notice they are there against the backdrop of our daily imaginings - to push through them and force ourselves to read/learn/apply when we'd rather be doing other things is the key, at least in the beginning.

 

[herondancer]

Re: A self observation. Depression, self pitty and vampires

I decided I needed to work out the mechanics of this or it'd run me. I am reading Unholy Hungers at the moment, and noticed that the 'taking out' of the program on someone else was vampiric. It appeared to be a demand for pitty.
A feeding on pitty. Self importance??
I then realised that if it was a vampiric demand for pitty, the build up was because it was taking my own internal resources through not letting it take others. I was pittying myself...and thus feeding it.

The sence of overwhelming depression then vanished, and turned into an ache in my guts. Interesting.
I resolved to be aware of this in future, and not to accept pitty from others or myself.
Any sence of pitty would indicate the feeding had started again through that method.

Hi Red Fox,

I'll second Anart's take. This is a good beginning.

FWIW, it went kinda the same way with me. I had someone mad at me, and in turn, took it out on one of my kids. It's the "kick the dog" pattern. What was so awful was that suddenly I could see myself doing it, and was powerless to stop it. The second fact was worse than the first. The one good thing that came out of it was the perception of the energy drain. Someone drained me. To fill that void, I drained someone else. It was a new way of looking at all those interactions, and a scary one. But it was a start. When the C's material came along the idea made even more sense.

We all have to start somewhere. And "having seen" this particular pattern, you'll see it more and more easily, like a colour you've become aware of. It will be like a thread that will lead you on to other insights if you continue to pay attention. The books will help you identify the cues of the different patterns so do keep reading.

Herondancer

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Re: A self observation. Depression, self pitty and vampires

Hi Redfox,

You said you noticed programs coming back just before your birthday, which surprised you.
Did it surprise you because you thought they were gone? Or because they were stronger than usual? Is it possible that they were never gone at all, but you were not observing yourself enough, and having read Unholy Hungers just made you more aware of them?

As others have said, it is important that you go deeper in your observation of your programs. Seeing that you feed off people is great but trying to see what you felt exactly and what triggered it could get you to another level of understanding. For example, you were saying that your selfish thoughts were linked to the presents given to you: why didn't you like what you received? Did you feel that the person giving you that gift didn't know you at all, were you depressed because you're getting old, etc. Ask yourself all these questions and answer honestly about what you really felt. If you want to do the work, the very first thing to do, imho at least, is to stop lying to yourself.

Don't forget that there is some sort of social pressure to almost feel bad when you hit another decade (30, 40, 50, etc.) - probably because for most people, it's the only time in their lives when they actually take stock of what is going on inside them, before shutting that door for another decade - and that maybe you were just 'programmed' to feel bad on that day because of that.

And about mulling over posting or not: I think a lot of people on this forum do that. I know I do. Maybe it's the negative introject speaking ('I'm not good enough', 'others know more', 'I haven't read all the books', etc.). Sometimes it may be genuine desire to be externally considerate and not wanting to make noise on this forum. But anyway, try not to mull over it for too long, because usually, you lose the momentum and then you don't post. And that's a shame because you learn so much from other's responses.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[RedFox]

Re: A self observation. Depression, self pitty and vampires

Thanks for the feedback
Ok..hope this post isn't too long!

What is not clear to me from your post is WHY you are feeling "self-pity" and/or wanting "pity" from others. It's an odd choice of words, one that seems to be avoiding talking about/ thinking about the underlying emotions involved. I have a sense that you may be looking for a quick-fix for the behaviour without having to delve into often-painful self-examination required to discover the "mechanics" involved.

The way I understood it myself was it was basically a need to feed. Masked by pitty. The feeding off self was masked by self pitty, and off other was masked by the thoughts (that I felt I was going to act out if I didn't stop it) of 'Pitty me!'. The feeding off self was what I atributed the growing sence of depression and dispair too.
Does that make more sence? As soon as I identified it for what it was the depression evaporated.
Of course my conclusion could be inacurate.

Your ntoe about the quick fix did make me stop and think...

Perhaps you do not wish to get into specific personal details, but I think it is necessary to identify the emotions behind your behaviour in order to discover the "program" involved. What emotions accompany and/or precipitate the "self-pity" and "depression"? Do you feel, for example, sad, angry, ashamed, hurt, grief-stricken, etc? What specific events, people, interactions, etc. "trigger" the depression and self-pity?

I don't mind specifics and personal details if it helps further the work for me and others :)
I've been thinking about that over the last 24hours or so...
I think it was a positive observation, followed by self calming to avoid facing the cause.

To the extent that you applied the material you read in Unholy Hungers to your own behavior/feelings/motivations/reactions, and did not take your 'mood' out on others, I think it is beneficial. It is taking one step from the theoretical to the application in real time - which is really the whole point.

Now, the key may be to push through the excuses, laziness and distractions that have kept you from finishing these books and moving forward in their application. If you can use this one small example, which resulted in results you could observe and benefit from, as fuel to learn more - then, yes - beneficial is an understatement.

Our largest (and often only) barriers are internal and so familiar that we don't notice they are there against the backdrop of our daily imaginings - to push through them and force ourselves to read/learn/apply when we'd rather be doing other things is the key, at least in the beginning.

Thanks anart, you made my day. Its nice to know that I'm headed in the right direction!
I've been fighting my internal resistance for years, coming here has taught me how to deal with it better.
With those two replies in mind I went away and read (not enough mind...) and thought about what had been said.

I noticed similarities between the depression/pitty/draining program and ones that I'd been living with for years in different forms. They all show up when I'm more tired/drained/should be sleeping/hungry.
I think I can trace them back now. I remember at infant school being left by my mum, I thought she was still there and when I went to talk to her it wasn't my mum....shock. I went from happy to feeling completely abandoned. I recall changing my stance to the world at that point. Open to closed. Myth of Sanity covers that well.
I have always been an 'introvert' but I think that event along with other things may be part of my 'hiding' program.
And I have hidden, and keep hiding from life.
The program addapted around the time of starting university, and led to my depression. The program was 'social isolation'. I'd always isolated myself socially, and hidden in my own little self created world of computer games/programming (because it was predictable and non threatening). But at university I didn't have that crux so much, so the sence of isolation grew into depression, especially when it came 'to finding a girlfriend'. Gah
This then adapted to focus primerily on the 'girlfriend' aspect.....all my lonelyness poured into that idea. And my depression and that sence of lonelyness stayed with me the next few years (And got my into all sorts of 'traps').

Long story short, learnt to deal with my depression by using it as a indicator that I need to learn something about myself. Realised that I was isolating myself socially, and blaming others for the sence of isolation. Discovered the vampire/otherkin compunity, met some good people (and not so good), got into 'New Age'. And realised I was blocking/hiding from life and met my girlfriend on the day I realised it and let go. Started letting go of the whole 'New Age' stuff and found my way here.

My supprise comes from thinking I'd dealt with the emotions around all these events in my life, I guess I never dealt with the 'program' itself. As to what I feel. On the surface I feel dispair, sadness, and Lonelyness. The sence of being cut off from myself. Behind that I can see (but have not felt yet) the sence of anialation. those are the key emotions with this program.

I also learnt alot about the vampiric nature of it (having already gone through that background and learnt about energy in all sorts of interactions). I realised that if feeling self pitty was the mask for draining myself, then what else was there? Could feel that sort of ache in my gut again having traced all this back. All sorts of aspects of the program kicked in.
Sex! The whole lonelyness thing got linked to the desire for a physical relationship (also self calming of the depression), and I could feel at that moment the ache in my gut move. Userping my emotional centre by my sex centre?
Refocused. Realised what I'd done, self congratulated and it moved upwards (ego userping the energy). Refocused.
I must dig intot his.

I don't think I've ever observed so much so clearly before. The whole worled looked different to me this morning.

FWIW, it went kinda the same way with me. I had someone mad at me, and in turn, took it out on one of my kids. It's the "kick the dog" pattern. What was so awful was that suddenly I could see myself doing it, and was powerless to stop it. The second fact was worse than the first. The one good thing that came out of it was the perception of the energy drain. Someone drained me. To fill that void, I drained someone else. It was a new way of looking at all those interactions, and a scary one. But it was a start. When the C's material came along the idea made even more sense.

We all have to start somewhere. And "having seen" this particular pattern, you'll see it more and more easily, like a colour you've become aware of. It will be like a thread that will lead you on to other insights if you continue to pay attention. The books will help you identify the cues of the different patterns so do keep reading.

Its fascinating to observe, I discovered it in relation to human interactions ages ago. I also learnt I'm very good at sencing the change in the energy (New Age sensation seeking). I think with the new books and self observation I am starting to see how subtle and insidouse it actually is. And how pervasive!
Learning the cues by seeing them in action are usually the lessons that stick with us the longest.

You said you noticed programs coming back just before your birthday, which surprised you. Did it surprise you because you thought they were gone? Or because they were stronger than usual? Is it possible that they were never gone at all, but you were not observing yourself enough, and having read Unholy Hungers just made you more aware of them?

I think I was supprised that they came back! Makes me realised how much I Havn't dealt with things I'd convinced myself I Had.
It was definatly different, not very strong to start with, building up to overwhelming over the days before my birthday. Your right, they havn't gone.
I'd like to think I have been obversing myself, but the conclusion is I havn't. This perticualr program seems to only surface around birthdays/christmas. It use to surface as envy in proximity to others relationships too.
I think Unholy Hungers has let me see it more deeply than I have before.

As others have said, it is important that you go deeper in your observation of your programs. Seeing that you feed off people is great but trying to see what you felt exactly and what triggered it could get you to another level of understanding. For example, you were saying that your selfish thoughts were linked to the presents given to you: why didn't you like what you received? Did you feel that the person giving you that gift didn't know you at all, were you depressed because you're getting old, etc. Ask yourself all these questions and answer honestly about what you really felt. If you want to do the work, the very first thing to do, imho at least, is to stop lying to yourself.

The first time I noticed this program was about 5 christmases ago. I didn't like the presents I received (I didn't get much compared to my sister, who I perceved as slightly demanding/manipulative when it came to getting 'better presents'), some anger with that. Yup, didn't feel like my parents knew me (that links back to isolating myself).
I use to get depressed because of my age, but I don't think thats a big factor anymore.

Don't forget that there is some sort of social pressure to almost feel bad when you hit another decade (30, 40, 50, etc.) - probably because for most people, it's the only time in their lives when they actually take stock of what is going on inside them, before shutting that door for another decade - and that maybe you were just 'programmed' to feel bad on that day because of that.

Thats true, hadn't thought of that. I think I've been convincing myself that I havn't shut the door to whats going on inside me as much as actually have.

And about mulling over posting or not: I think a lot of people on this forum do that. I know I do. Maybe it's the
negative introject speaking ('I'm not good enough', 'others know more', 'I haven't read all the books', etc.).
Sometimes it may be genuine desire to be externally considerate and not wanting to make noise on this forum. But anyway, try not to mull over it for too long, because usually, you lose the momentum and then you don't post. And that's a shame because you learn so much from other's responses.

You bring up an important piont here (maybe one for another thread). My friends use to say that I 'over thought' things. I still do to some extent, especially when thinking of posting here, and I do lose momentum and not post because of it. Mind you I do that with my emails from friends too, so perhaps its the 'isolation' thing playing agian?