advise re work

[liam1310]

Hi all, sorry for the long post.
Okay, I'm working for this company 2 years 3 months now roughly. The first year I was on a part time contract, hours were not great, good some weeks not so good other weeks. I left the company but decided to come back, after a few weeks back (hours were not great) had a talk with the boss who put me on full time salary position. I've been in this position since November 2018, eleven months now, done my probation period of six months and was never called for a probation review.

Something came up were I needed an extra day of to care for somebody (I work as a health care assistant) who I was careing for on my other day of, this person was coming to the end of there life so, I needed an extra day to work with this person. I talked to HR who agreed I could go off salary position back to hourly, as I couldn't meet the requirements of the full time contract by taking an extra day.

I only needed the extra day for three weeks so we made a verbal agreement with HR, back on salary after 3 weeks no problem. I went back to full time position after the agreed 3 weeks. This happened in July of this year. I'm around 2 months now back fulltime.

Last Tuesday I got an email and a phone call to say I'm due a contract/ probationary review the next day with HR no need to worry I was told. I didnt think much of it, have a lot going on. I turned up to the meeting, the accountant and director were present no one from HR was present. The director proceeded to tell me, I'm only averageing 25 hrs a week (the contract states obligated to do 40hrs) (I get payed for 40hrs regardless), I'm available 40hrs a week, it is up to them to give me the hours, it's completely out of my control how many hours I do.

She proceeded to tell me we have to cut your contract down to 25hrs. I asked have you not got the hours to give me. I was very suprised at her (the directors) response, she didn't know, she didn't ask the sheduling department. Unbelievable they want to cut my hours before finding out if the hours are there. She also had the cheek to say we have taken others of salary but, we will leave you on it as your reliable and you will have money to pay your bills. I was shocked couldn't think straight and didn't agree to any of it, they are going ahead anyway. It wasn't until I left the office it dawned on me what had happened and what I should have said.

I went to the office the next day to speak with HR. No one available and no one available who was at the meeting the day before. I was told by the other director in not so nice a way or tone of voice, to make an appointment to see HR on Monday and we will talk about this. I made the appointment for this Monday at 3pm and emailed the accountant who was at the meeting to say I do not consent to any changes in the contract and will be meeting with HR on monday (got no reply)

My thoughts are I should not of been called for a probationary/contract review (two different things or so I think) as I had already done my probation and was not given a new contract to say I'm back on probation. Something is not right here the way they are doing it makes no sence to me and they make it out as if I've done something wrong. I'm a good worker and have been told this in the past by my supervisor and one of the directors (the one who was not very nice who told me to make an appointment with HR) there attitude towards me has completely changed. I rarely miss days ever, get on with clients never any issues.

PS I know im late with this post considering the meeting is on Monday, thought I'd post anyway because in the past I've wanted to post but never do, plus it may help someone else who knows?? Any advise would be appreciated.
Thank you for taking the time to read.

 

[liam1310]

Sorry I should also add. My wages were increased as per contract after probation. It was not increased straight away. I had to email accounts they back dated the payments. I have the emails, will bring with on Monday to the meeting. That was done after I went back on salary the 2nd time.

 

[Chad]

Hi Liam, Take this FWIW because i think there will be other qualified and much more experienced people here who may have chance to respond to you in time. But, if i'm understanding your situation correctly, in my experience, anytime i or people i knew were in a position of having to deal with HR over serious matters, the suggestion was always to take a profressional in with you; a union representative if you are in one; in the UK you could maybe check with the Citizens Advice Bureau who could either find you someone or put you in touch with the right charity; or, if you can afford it, hire someone.

I was given that same advice when i was being made redundant from a friend whose father was a judge specializing in employment law. I also knew a HR manager for a medium sized company for whom this was apparently not unusual. If i remember correctly, you are even permitted to delay the Monday meeting until you find representation.

To me it sounded a bit drastic (bringing a rep in) but, apparently - although let's see what others have to say - it's a sensible thing to do and HR should be accommodating.

Considerations would be: Will this effect your future relationship with your employer? Although apparently you can take them to court if they treat you differently or fire you for contesting the situation in this manner - unfair dismissal or something.

Anyway, that's one suggestion. Maybe others can offer suggestions about how to handle it yourself, without the need for representation.

 

[Joe]

Hi Liam, if its not possible to have some legal rep. with you on Monday, I think you should clarify some things at the meeting on Monday:
Is this a case of there not being enough hours to give you to make up 40 a week? If not, then maybe there isn't much you can do. If there ARE enough hours for you to work 40 a week, then you need to ask why they are not being given to you. If you don't get a satisfactory answer, you can let them know, in a subtle way, that in that case you'll be talking to the relevant legal authorities about this situation.

 

[sid]

Hi Liam

Something doesn’t quite add up especially given that you’ve had good feedback in the past from your supervisor. Is there an off chance that they have confused you with another non-performing employee?
Either ways, be confident in the meeting however try and hold back any emotional reactions. A calm and collected attitude always helps. Good luck, hope it all works out well for you.

 

[lainey]

Hello Liam, sorry to hear about your situation. You've got some good, straight forward advice from Joe there. Before you go into the meeting, it might help to write down all the things you would like to know and all the questions you would like to ask so you don't forget anything in the heat of the moment. Good luck, and do let us know how it goes.

 

[PERLOU]

Désolée de vous savoir dans cette situation difficile.
Si vous n'arrivez pas à joindre un membre de syndicat peut-être un représentant du personnel pourrait vous soutenir et vous servir de témoin en cas de difficultés...

I'm sorry to hear you're in this difficult situation.
If you can't reach a union member, maybe a staff representative could support you and act as a witness in case of difficulties...

 

[Jones]

I don't know what country you're in liam1310, but I can give a view of the situation from what I can gather here in Australia since I've known a few people who have worked in health care.

There are a lot of health care assistant type positions available and if you find yourself out of work, one of the first directions that the government offer subsidised retraining in is health care - aged, disability etc. Then, if you've been unemployed for some time, they also subsidise the your wage for a certain period of time for the employer.

Some companies take advantage of that system and only keep an employee on for the period of time that they receive the wage subsidies from the government.

In situations like that, there can also be a high turnover in staff, because companies running health care services know that if you don't go above and beyond for them, making them your first priority, regardless of needing time out for other reasonable commitments or for personal health, they just make moves to ditch you, or send subtle signals that they will so that you're edgy about asking again in the future. In other words, the companies overplay their contracted conditions for employment. Those that survive and manage to keep positions long term in that environment seem to put their employer first in almost 100% of cases - even if it means, or so it seems in some circumstances, consistently working outside paid hours for little additional pay. Past history of good service doesn't always seem to protect the employees.

If you think this is the case with your current employer, one idea would be to just do what you have to do to keep the job and get a good reference in the short term, but also be on the lookout for and be making applications for other jobs.

All the best!

 

[angelburst29]

Last Tuesday I got an email and a phone call to say I'm due a contract/ probationary review the next day with HR no need to worry I was told.

First question - You are already working within a Contract - what is the starting and end date of that Contract?

I turned up to the meeting, the accountant and director were present no one from HR was present.

If someone from HR was not available (for whatever reason) you should have been contacted that the meeting was being canceled and was to be "rescheduled" and they would contact you with the new date/time change.

The director proceeded to tell me, I'm only averageing 25 hrs a week (the contract states obligated to do 40hrs) (I get payed for 40hrs regardless), I'm available 40hrs a week, it is up to them to give me the hours, it's completely out of my control how many hours I do.

The Contract is the ruling factor here because it is legal and binding. Certain terms were offered to you by the Company and you accepted by "signing Contract". You are (legally) obligated to meet those terms for the duration of that Contract.

I went to the office the next day to speak with HR. No one available and no one available who was at the meeting the day before. I was told by the other director in not so nice a way or tone of voice, to make an appointment to see HR on Monday and we will talk about this. I made the appointment for this Monday at 3pm and emailed the accountant who was at the meeting to say I do not consent to any changes in the contract and will be meeting with HR on monday (got no reply)

My guess - no one representing HR will be available - on Monday, either!

What is really important at this moment is - the end date of the Contract that you are now honoring.

If you are within 30 days or less on your current Contract - the Director and Accountant are there to work out terms for a new Contract but HR should really be there at that meeting - it's part of their job.

My suspicion - is that you may have a month or more - on your present Contract and the Director and Accountant are pressuring you - to sign a new Contract (different terms) forfeiting the terms of the present Contract (which is still in effect). Sign NOTHING!

But if your present Contract is coming to an end within 30 days or less, you will have to negotiate for a new Contract. If they can't meet your terms - then WALK. The company may be insolvent (filing Chapter 8 or 11) and they might be trying to cut their loses during the process? Or a CEO or another is trying to skim more profits and trying (illegally) to ditch some Contracts for a better profit margin? The company isn't your problem - only the Contract and you fulfilling the terms that your obligated to meet. If they illegally break Contract - you take them to Court.

I was told by the other director in not so nice a way or tone of voice, to make an appointment to see HR on Monday and we will talk about this.

If they are trying to pressure you into breaking Contract - the cocky Director might be getting a kick-back - for every "score" they make? Best to keep eyes and ears open and be careful on what you say and keep an even temperament.

 

[liam1310]

Hi Liam, Take this FWIW because i think there will be other qualified and much more experienced people here who may have chance to respond to you in time. But, if i'm understanding your situation correctly, in my experience, anytime i or people i knew were in a position of having to deal with HR over serious matters, the suggestion was always to take a profressional in with you; a union representative if you are in one; in the UK you could maybe check with the Citizens Advice Bureau who could either find you someone or put you in touch with the right charity; or, if you can afford it, hire someone.

I was given that same advice when i was being made redundant from a friend whose father was a judge specializing in employment law. I also knew a HR manager for a medium sized company for whom this was apparently not unusual. If i remember correctly, you are even permitted to delay the Monday meeting until you find representation.

To me it sounded a bit drastic (bringing a rep in) but, apparently - although let's see what others have to say - it's a sensible thing to do and HR should be accommodating.

Considerations would be: Will this effect your future relationship with your employer? Although apparently you can take them to court if they treat you differently or fire you for contesting the situation in this manner - unfair dismissal or something.

Anyway, that's one suggestion. Maybe others can offer suggestions about how to handle it yourself, without the need for representation.

Hi itellsya,
I did go to citizen information on Friday, unfortunately no was available, they were doing courses that day, will go back if I have the time Monday before the meeting. The best I can do now is have someone sit in with me, another employee from the company. Depending on how things go at the meeting I may seek legal rep. Thanks for the quick reply.

Liam

 

[liam1310]

Hi Liam, if its not possible to have some legal rep. with you on Monday, I think you should clarify some things at the meeting on Monday:
Is this a case of there not being enough hours to give you to make up 40 a week? If not, then maybe there isn't much you can do. If there ARE enough hours for you to work 40 a week, then you need to ask why they are not being given to you. If you don't get a satisfactory answer, you can let them know, in a subtle way, that in that case you'll be talking to the relevant legal authorities about this situation.

Hi Joe,
Was thinking along those lines myself. I know one other employee on salary, he does same hours as me and has yet to be called in. Also part time staff are getting hours before fulltime staff( not sure if this is even legal). I've spoken to a few who are getting 30-35 hrs a week. So will be asking why this is? Who else has been asked to reduce pay/hours? And what was the criteria for selection? Will see how it goes maybe talk to someone who knows about contract law aswell. What's the point in having a contract if they can just change it to suit themselves.
Thanks for the quick reply.

Liam

 

[liam1310]

Hi Liam

Something doesn’t quite add up especially given that you’ve had good feedback in the past from your supervisor. Is there an off chance that they have confused you with another non-performing employee?
Either ways, be confident in the meeting however try and hold back any emotional reactions. A calm and collected attitude always helps. Good luck, hope it all works out well for you.

Thanks Sid,
I agree something is off, not sure what tho?
Thanks for the advise and quick response.

Liam

 

[liam1310]

I don't know what country you're in liam1310, but I can give a view of the situation from what I can gather here in Australia since I've known a few people who have worked in health care.

There are a lot of health care assistant type positions available and if you find yourself out of work, one of the first directions that the government offer subsidised retraining in is health care - aged, disability etc. Then, if you've been unemployed for some time, they also subsidise the your wage for a certain period of time for the employer.

Some companies take advantage of that system and only keep an employee on for the period of time that they receive the wage subsidies from the government.

In situations like that, there can also be a high turnover in staff, because companies running health care services know that if you don't go above and beyond for them, making them your first priority, regardless of needing time out for other reasonable commitments or for personal health, they just make moves to ditch you, or send subtle signals that they will so that you're edgy about asking again in the future. In other words, the companies overplay their contracted conditions for employment. Those that survive and manage to keep positions long term in that environment seem to put their employer first in almost 100% of cases - even if it means, or so it seems in some circumstances, consistently working outside paid hours for little additional pay. Past history of good service doesn't always seem to protect the employees.

If you think this is the case with your current employer, one idea would be to just do what you have to do to keep the job and get a good reference in the short term, but also be on the lookout for and be making applications for other jobs.

All the best!

Hi Jones,
Your spot on, this company does take advantage of this government scheme. Very high staff turn over, they are constantly recruiting new staff. How can they justify cutting my hours and at the same time taking on new staff? Ive been looking around online for another company just in case. I do work with private clients aswell so at least I still have that.
Thanks for the quick reply.

Liam

 

[Laurs]

Good luck tomorrow Liam, sounds like you have a plan. Let us know how it goes!

 

[liam1310]

First question - You are already working within a Contract - what is the starting and end date of that Contract?



If someone from HR was not available (for whatever reason) you should have been contacted that the meeting was being canceled and was to be "rescheduled" and they would contact you with the new date/time change.



The Contract is the ruling factor here because it is legal and binding. Certain terms were offered to you by the Company and you accepted by "signing Contract". You are (legally) obligated to meet those terms for the duration of that Contract.



My guess - no one representing HR will be available - on Monday, either!

What is really important at this moment is - the end date of the Contract that you are now honoring.

If you are within 30 days or less on your current Contract - the Director and Accountant are there to work out terms for a new Contract but HR should really be there at that meeting - it's part of their job.

My suspicion - is that you may have a month or more - on your present Contract and the Director and Accountant are pressuring you - to sign a new Contract (different terms) forfeiting the terms of the present Contract (which is still in effect). Sign NOTHING!

But if your present Contract is coming to an end within 30 days or less, you will have to negotiate for a new Contract. If they can't meet your terms - then WALK. The company may be insolvent (filing Chapter 8 or 11) and they might be trying to cut their loses during the process? Or a CEO or another is trying to skim more profits and trying (illegally) to ditch some Contracts for a better profit margin? The company isn't your problem - only the Contract and you fulfilling the terms that your obligated to meet. If they illegally break Contract - you take them to Court.



If they are trying to pressure you into breaking Contract - the cocky Director might be getting a kick-back - for every "score" they make? Best to keep eyes and ears open and be careful on what you say and keep an even temperament.

Hi angelburst29,
My current contract ends the 2nd week in November. I won't be signing anything for now. On my end I've honoured the terms of the current contract and they should to. Thanks for the advise and quick reply much appreciated, gives me another Angel to approach this from.

Liam