Africa's apocalyptic mood

[sankara]

Thank you very much Perceval :)

Those who have any knowledge of French can also watch this one made by a journalist from Le Monde Diplomatique: "Le mystère Hezbollah" (The Hizbollah Mystery). The first minutes are commercial propaganda, be patient...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1312140417688176823#

Respect

 

[Nienna]

Thank you E, Perceval and sankara for your insights on this.

After reading the articles by Naomi Wolfe and thinking about them this morning some more, it seems to me that what these women are doing is shielding themselves from men whilst out in public. One or two were said to have told Ms. Wolfe that they feel like a person while dressed the way they do. They are not objectified. And, yet, it would seem to me that if the men could control themselves and not blame women for their own lustful thoughts, women would be free to wear anything they wanted.

Then, I realized, that it is basically the same in all religions where the fundamentalists are in control. I would bet that any fundamentalist arm of any religion blames women for the wrongs that are done to them.

I once had a Somalian man who worked where I worked and he would tell us how he and his brother would beat his sister if she was found talking to another man out on the street because she needed to be taught that what she was doing was wrong. And he said that she would admit that what she had done was wrong. Well, yeah! Torture always works to get the answer you want.

But as has been said, I think that fundamental christian groups, and fundamental jewish groups would be, more or less, the same.

In all cases, the women are seen as bad and need to be covered, beaten, kept in check.....

Sankara, it is good to know that common sense does prevail in certain communities, thank you for sharing.

Anyway, just wanted to share my 2 cents worth on this.

 

[sankara]

Thank Nienna Eluch for your participation.

As I have said, fundamentalism is based on ignorance, poverty, ressentment against the West and manipulation by the West on a grand scale. The documentary "The power of nightmares" give also a good insight of the recent history.

There is also something I have witnessed in Mali and Marocco. The more the Empire is spreading it's so called woman freedom in countries where there are no jobs, the more women prostitute themselves. In Bamako anybody can witness how many young woman have occidental outlook and Chinese motorbikes (like the commercial propaganda says: express yourself). How is it possible? prostitution.

last year, a Burkinabé friend of mine told me how her friends laught at her when she got a job to finance her studies instead of prostituting. And this is not anecdotal. On the opposit, educated Muslim women are far more balance and as the level of education is rising they do really empower themselves.

As to the Male being able to control their carnal desire :), I think it is much easier when a woman doesn't show me her belly like it has been in fashion for some years now. I prefer to look at you visage than being attracted by other parts of the body. Sure there is no need for a total hiding of the individual, but there must be a balance. :)

 

[anart]

As to the Male being able to control their carnal desire :), I think it is much easier when a woman doesn't show me her belly like it has been in fashion for some years now. I prefer to look at you visage than being attracted by other parts of the body. Sure there is no need for a total hiding of the individual, but there must be a balance. :)

Sankara, you seem to be blaming other people (women in this case) for your own thoughts/actions/lack of control of such. If you, or anyone, has issues 'controlling their carnal desire' that is their issue - their fault - not the issue or fault of those who are the object of that desire.

Your statement above is illustrative of the exactly the issue E is talking about. Women, no matter how they dress, are not responsible for your, or anyone's, thoughts or lack of internal control. Or, perhaps, you're just joking?

 

[un chien anadolu]

As I have said, fundamentalism is based on ignorance, poverty, ressentment against the West and manipulation by the West on a grand scale. The documentary "The power of nightmares" give also a good insight of the recent history.

One thing shouldn't be forgotten.The most fundamentalist Islam regimes were created and supperted by PTB (Western psychopats) . Iranian islamic revolution was a project against Soviet threat. Taliban regime (in Afghanistan) was also created under the supervision of CIA and other actors (again against Soviet threat). Saudi Arabia is ruled under Sheri'a laws by a noble family which is a bunch of puppets of their psychopat masters : the number 1 ally of USA among Arab countries for decades.

What funny is , Turkey is the only secular country whereas %95 of population is Muslim. Women in Turkey obtained the right to vote and be elected in municipal elections in 1930 and in parliamentary elections in 1934 (in France and Ital7 1946, in Switzerland in 1971). But again TPTB is supporting a fundamentalist party for last 10 years in Turkey.The prime minister Erdogan was a guest in Oval Office before he was not even elected as member of Parliament. Why ? And now PTB call this new project as mild Islam.

 

[Erna]

I think that in general people react negatively when others disapprove of their tradition that for them is a token of their heritage, and that should be respected. In contrast, nobody who is human is proud of truly abusive practices that their culture and religion enforces, and they definitely need to be discussed and worked against. But if we as a society can somehow separate the two in the discussion, that gives a better chance of success in improving people's lives.

But can one separate the two?

[quote author=Perceval]
should work now :)
[/quote]

A nice insider's view. I’m gonna get a hubbly bubbly, this documentary reminded me again!

It's an interesting thing to consider when is a constitution too liberal or too conservative. We're sitting with exactly the opposite of Iran, the most liberal constitution in the world which blew up in our faces...

 

[Nienna]

As to the Male being able to control their carnal desire :), I think it is much easier when a woman doesn't show me her belly like it has been in fashion for some years now. I prefer to look at you visage than being attracted by other parts of the body. Sure there is no need for a total hiding of the individual, but there must be a balance. :)

Of course it is, and that is my whole point. You are making it the responsibility of the woman to not encourage you to have carnal desires. Do you see how you are deflecting your lack of self-restraint onto another person?

It's as if you are saying, "If only you women wouldn't dress that way, I wouldn't have carnal thoughts." That way YOU don't have to do any work on yourself to stop REACTING in a machine-like way. It is much easier that way, isn't it? You are still blaming the woman for how you REACT. But you are not taking care of YOUR program of having carnal desires when you see a woman dressed in a specific way. Instead, you see her as an object to do with as you will. Where's the self-discipline, the self-control, the seeing another person for who she is instead of what you can get from her?

This is what the Work is all about. Overcoming our programs. Recognizing them for what they are, watching them and getting some control of them rather than deflecting our programs and blaming them on someone else. Seeing ourselves objectively instead of the subjective way we would like to see ourselves.

fwiw