Airasia QZ8501 Missing

[seek10]

_http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30641554

The first two bodies from the AirAsia Flight QZ8501 crash have arrived back in the Indonesian city of Surabaya, where relatives are waiting.

Next of kin have been asked for DNA samples to help identify the victims.
...
A tent for taking DNA samples has been set up near the airport at Surabaya

 

[Gateway]

Many here have speculated that the bodies found may be a farce. Before this reading such thing also occurred to me while watching the news. Interesting "coincidental" way of thinking.

So, the whether was extreme at the occasion of the event but the problem is that there were other planes near the tragedy and yet they went through the air safely. So Airasia QZ8501 has just had tremendous bad luck? And now few strange wreckage have appeared as well as sparse corpses in a local where the sea is 30 to 50 meters deep and replete of intense commercial navigation. Therefore we have a shallow, very shallow sea enough to searches of easy scuba dive. But, hey, the whether still is pretty bad there, say the authorities.

On the other hand, experienced pilots speak in CNN that this really happens. Few meters of distance in the air from another plane may be the cruel difference for a particular plane, they say. Also they tell that the plane was too slow in the air, so much that thus it would go collapse and just fall like a stone.

Do will we know the truth? Right now it seems quite dangerous to take an airplane (even helicopters) in anyplace, something like a casino game.

 

[treesparrow]

A friend - an avid aviation buff - sent me the following link yesterday. The site tracks, identifies and maps all commercial flights around the world in real time. Due to all the current mishaps concerning planes, I thought it might of interest to some forum members -

http://www.flightradar24.com/51.93,-1.81/6

 

[Keit]

5 of 7 bodies recovered so far have been identified as passengers and crew of the ill-fated QZ 8501.,

That's what I heard on the Russian news today, that due to the extreme weather, only 7 bodies were recovered so far and very little wreckege. If so, I don't quite understand the claim about the 40 bodies being recovered. Or maybe I am missing something?

 

[Joe]

Just speculating here, but let's say, hypothetically, that this flight disappeared like MH370. Knowing this, the PTB would come up with a contingency plan, since they were caught with their pants down after 370. So is it possible they will find a few bodies (random people dumped there) and wreckage (again placed for a photo op, or not even that), then say, "plane crashed, case closed"? We'll just have to wait and see how much evidence gets released.

Considered that idea myself, but ran into the problem of how they would get away with saying publicly they had recovered many bodies if they hadn't.

I don't know. Getting bodies wouldn't be difficult (e.g., some John/Jane Does, or just killing some people who wouldn't be missed). It's the dental/DNA records that would slightly trickier.

I was thinking more about the families who would have had to identify them.

 

[Joe]

5 of 7 bodies recovered so far have been identified as passengers and crew of the ill-fated QZ 8501., so it seems this is a legit tragic human drama involving aviation failure. No 'funny' PTB involvement can be deduced, until a full investigation is finalized. It can possibly just be a sad 'normal' world tragedy, and we can move on without speculating without researched and objective data about the crash of QZ 8501. Esotericaly, 162 lives (tb counted) tragically finishing their schooling abruptly may mean something?? Happy New Year y'all.

The available data: fuselage found mostly intact on sea bed and the plane disappearing from radar 3 minutes after the last communication, suggest an EMP from an overhead meteorite explosion that fried all electrics and power. Depending on what manual mechanical controls (if any) were available to the pilots, they could have tried to glide down to the sea, otherwise it may have been a more hair-raising descent.

 

[angelburst29]

{....} Bad weather had been causing more than usual rain in Malaysia and Indonesia this month, with more rain to come all through next month. The last communication with the Indonesia controller was the pilot asking to increase altitude to avoid thick 'cumulonimbus' cloud near Belitung island south of Singapore. MH370 disappearance could also be around 1000 km perimeter (?) from QZ8501. No confirmed finding still.

As Above - So Below. Malaysia, Indonesia and the Phillippines have been experiencing extreme weather events. The atmosphere above the area is in a violent flux. If conditions were ripe for a rip in the fabric, in which MH370 happened to be in the right place - at the right time to disappear into it, under present violent conditions, could the same possibility exist that QZ8501 met the same fate, in the same general area? Is there an anomaly near Belitung Island, similar to what is often activated in the Devil's triangle, when certain conditions are met? Could the thick cumulonimbus clouds reported by the pilot, in which he asked to increase altitude to "avoid" in actuality - be "the outer diameter of the rift opening" and he flew the plane up and into the opening - disappearing like MH370 did?

Could the same conditions - produce the opposite affect, where as, objects that have disappeared into the rift are now able to reappear - back on this side? What if, we have lost QZ8501 - only to have MH370 reappear and continue on it's original flight destination (prior to disappearing) contacting the Tower for permission to land and what run way to approach???

My feeling, we have lost QZ8501 to the same fate that met MH370 and all the news reports are smoke and mirrors.

This report gives the theory that a small explosive or bomb went off in the plane, prior to it crashing in the water BUT the plane is mostly intact? It wasn't too big of a bomb? And why do all reports "assume" it crashed in water? There's landmass's in the area.

_https://gma.yahoo.com/airasia-crash-leading-theories-caused-plane-down-200900364--abc-news-topstories.html

The prospect that a small explosion caused AirAsia flight QZ8501 to crash is one theory being considered to explain the plane crash, an aviation expert told ABC News.

John Nance, a former Air Force pilot and ABC News consultant, says that a bomb may have gone off inside the aircraft which would explain why it abruptly went off radar screens and sent no distress signals in the moments before it crashed into the Java Sea on Sunday with 162 people on board.

"Maybe one that wasn't strong enough to blow the airplane into pieces at altitude, but maybe one that blew the control cables from the hydraulics," Nance told ABC News.

The plane is thought to be largely intact because search and rescue workers believe they see the shadow of a plane in the relatively shallow water.

 

[Joe]

John Nance, a former Air Force pilot and ABC News consultant, says that a bomb may have gone off inside the aircraft which would explain why it abruptly went off radar screens and sent no distress signals in the moments before it crashed into the Java Sea on Sunday with 162 people on board.

"Maybe one that wasn't strong enough to blow the airplane into pieces at altitude, but maybe one that blew the control cables from the hydraulics," Nance told ABC News.

They'll go so far as to suggest an 'electrical bomb' inside the plane but ignore the massive rise in fireball/meteorite sightings and detonations that would have the same effect on a plane.

 

[lilies]

So these remains found is probably marketing? This time they didn't want to look impotent in the public' eye, as in the case of MH370, but wanted to create a potent government image of:
- See? We have found your plane! We can take care of you relatives and the 162 respectfully, trust us! Here is your wreckage photos, here is your bodies, the DNA results you wanted, everything checks out.

 

[mabar]

A friend - an avid aviation buff - sent me the following link yesterday. The site tracks, identifies and maps all commercial flights around the world in real time. Due to all the current mishaps concerning planes, I thought it might of interest to some forum members -

http://www.flightradar24.com/51.93,-1.81/6

Its a fun site, with recent mishaps concerning planes and incoming rocks, I am surprised the other planes had been saved. There will be a moment that authorities wont be able to hide it for more time, and unfortunately, it usually happends when things gets more complicated. Although, supposdely we/I am getting aware of this things, and shouldn't be worries, anxious, afraid, etc ...

 

[Dirgni]

“Until now, we haven’t found the plane,” Bambang Soelistyo said, according to Indonesia’s national news agency Antara. “We’ve only found seven bodies to this day.”

_http://pix11.com/2014/12/31/official-sonar-may-have-detected-wreckage-from-airasia-flight-qz8501/

The lastest news say that bodies were recovered and the plane was detected with sonar. It seems that the plane may not be found yet but no/few updated news about it any more. So maybe less mass media attention for the story from now.

Whatever happened if there is the plane still to be found or if the QZ8501 had a similar fate than MH370 is not yet clear IMO.

 

[Andrian]

The latest update from Reddit :

Air Asia Update :

SURABAYA, 1st JANUARY 2015 – AirAsia Indonesia wishes to update on the development of the on-going search and rescue mission of flight QZ8501.

The Disaster Victim Identification Police Department of Republic of Indonesia (DVI POLRI) today confirmed that the remains of one passenger on board QZ 8501 was identified as Hayati Luthfi Hamid (female). The confirmation was announced upon matching forensic and ante-mortem tests with the DNA evidence submitted by the families.

Sunu Widyatmoko, Chief Executive Officer AirAsia Indonesia handed the remains to her family at a ceremony held at Bhayangkara Hospital, Surabaya.

Sunu said, “On behalf of everyone at AirAsia, we extend our profound condolences to the family and friends of late Hayati Luthfi Hamid. AirAsia will support everything that the family may need during these difficult times.”

Earlier today, BASARNAS also confirmed that a total of six out of seven remains of QZ 8501 passengers which were recovered in Karimata Strait had been transported in Bhayangkara Hospital this morning for immediate identification by Disaster Victim Identificiation Police Department of Republic of Indonesia (DVI POLRI).

DVI team are now working on thorough identification which includes DNA check and forensics examination.

Meanwhile, the search and rescue effort still continues. Indonesian Minister of Transportation has deployed 5 additional vessels to the searching area. To date, there are more than 90 vessels and aircraft from numerous countries such as Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea, United States, involved in the operation.

Further information will be released as soon as it becomes available.

Our thoughts and prayers remain withthe families and friends of our passengers and colleagues on board QZ8501.

 

[Pearce]

40... 3... it´s the same.

That's what I thought..

 

[mabar]

5 of 7 bodies recovered so far have been identified as passengers and crew of the ill-fated QZ 8501., so it seems this is a legit tragic human drama involving aviation failure. No 'funny' PTB involvement can be deduced, until a full investigation is finalized. It can possibly just be a sad 'normal' world tragedy, and we can move on without speculating without researched and objective data about the crash of QZ 8501. Esotericaly, 162 lives (tb counted) tragically finishing their schooling abruptly may mean something?? Happy New Year y'all.

The available data: fuselage found mostly intact on sea bed and the plane disappearing from radar 3 minutes after the last communication, suggest an EMP from an overhead meteorite explosion that fried all electrics and power. Depending on what manual mechanical controls (if any) were available to the pilots, they could have tried to glide down to the sea, otherwise it may have been a more hair-raising descent.

That´s what it "says" in an article from RT:

Frozen instruments, deliberate crash? AirAsia plane crash versions multiply
Published time: December 31, 2014 14:07
Edited time: December 31, 2014 21:27 Get short URL

The discovery of the AirAsia airliner’s fuselage in the Java Sea raises new questions about what caused the crash. Possible versions range from misread instruments leading to a stall to a murder-suicide.

AirAsia flight QZ8501 abruptly went off radar on Sunday over the Java Sea shortly after the pilot requested air control in Jakarta for permission to climb higher to avoid a storm. The permission was granted two minutes later, but no response from the crew followed.

The plane disappeared from radar screens three minutes later. No distress call was sent by the plane. Both facts indicated that it fell very quickly, with initial speculation saying that it could have suffered catastrophic destruction in mid-air. But the discovery of the plane’s body lying in one piece on the seabed proved otherwise.

Recovering data from flight and cockpit recorders would be crucial for establishing the truth about the fate of QZ8501, but some flight experts point out that the AirAsia Airbus A320 crash has similarities with another flight incident, that of Air France flight AF447 in 2009.

The plane was officially classed as missing for two years and was found only in 2011. The investigation showed instruments called pitot tubes froze and gave false airspeed readings to the crew. They failed to respond to the problem accordingly and didn’t notice that the plane was about to stall or to try to recover it.

"No two accidents are the same. But there are similar conditions like the weather, and we must look into it very closely," a former air crash investigator in Indonesia told Reuters.

Unlike the AirAsia flight crash, Air France airliner stalled at nighttime when the crew couldn’t see the horizon line and see that the aircraft was losing altitude.

QZ8501 was piloted by an experienced 53-year-old ex-Indonesian Air Force pilot known by the single name Iriyanto, who had 20,000 flying hours under his belt, including 6,100 hours in Airbuses. The co-pilot was Frenchman Remi Plesel with 2,275 flying hours.

AirAsia CEO Tony Fernandes expressed confidence in his pilot, saying he was one of the best graduates at his military flight school. The Airbus A320 is a reliable aircraft with just 0.14 fatal accidents per million takeoffs, according to a safety study published by Boeing in August. With neither human error nor technical failure immediately pinned down as a likely cause, more sinister theories about the crash have arisen.

The plane could have been damaged by a small bomb exploding onboard, John Nance, a former US Air Force pilot, told ABC News.

"Maybe one that wasn't strong enough to blow the airplane into pieces at altitude, but maybe one that blew the control cables from the hydraulics," he said.

An even more exotic version would be a deliberate crash by the pilot in a murder-suicide, Nance added. At least three crashes in the past 20 years were caused by this.

One example is SilkAir Flight 185, also from Indonesia, which crashed into a river in southern Sumatra in 1997. Indonesian investigators reported that they couldn’t collect conclusive evidence to rule on the cause of the incident.

But the US National Transportation Safety Board, which participated in the investigation because the aircraft in question was a Boeing 737, said the plane crashed due to deliberate input from the cockpit, most likely by the captain.

New data indicates excessively steep climb before crash

New data from the radar which has been analyzed by investigators researching the cause of the AirAsia Flight has apparently shown that the plane attempted an “unbelievably” steep attempt at an incline – one that was perhaps too much for the jet to cope with.

“So far, the numbers taken by the radar are unbelievably high. This rate of climb is very high, too high. It appears to be beyond the performance envelope of the aircraft,” a source familiar with the probe's initial findings told Reuters.

The person told the agency that despite the preliminary assessment, the data upon which the analyses had been made was as of yet incomplete.

“With the CVR (cockpit voice recorder) and FDR (flight data recorder), we can establish what went on in the cockpit and what was going on with the aircraft. We can conclude if the radar information is accurate,” the source stated.

Previously, a picture had leaked from AirNav Indonesia seemingly depicting the plane climbing at 353 knots while already at an altitude of 36,300 feet.

The agency had two veteran pilots assess the situation, with both concluding that the aircraft may have climbed very suddenly and then dropped in speed – which could have resulted in a sudden stall.

“If you encounter turbulence, you go slower at what we call the turbulence penetration speed to get through it. If you climb to avoid turbulence, you slow down to have a better climb rate. That could be around Mach 0.76,” he said. “But if you climb suddenly and start to lose speed, you will stall,” one of the pilots told Reuters.

The source did however express a desire to investigate why other planes in the area were not similarly affected by the severe weather conditions while not appearing to “to encounter any major problems”.

While the Airbus A320 usually manages to stop its pilots from transcending predetermined safe flight parameters, they can under some circumstances be overriden by the pilot and manual flying skills.

It figures me to think, that they - whatever authorities, will keep using the "official normal" version until they sell life insurance airplane tickets incluiding incoming out of the blue cosmic hazards threats.

 

[Andrian]

Published on Sott:

... Mr Soejatman said the jet climbed at a speed that would have been impossible for the pilot to have achieved - and then plunged straight down 'like a piece of metal being thrown down.'

'It's really hard to comprehend...the way it goes down is bordering on the edge of logic.'

Australian aviation expert, Peter Marosszeky, from the University of NSW, told the Sydney Morning Herald that, in contrast, he was baffled by the extremely low speed of the descent - as low as 61 knots - which would suggest the plane was heading almost straight down, explaining why it has been found in water just 10km from its last point of radar contact.

Both experts are in agreement that the jet went down almost vertically - and also concluded that a freak weather pattern that placed the aircraft under extraordinary forces was to blame for its plight.

Earlier in the week, AirAsia chief executive Tony Fernandes - who vowed today to fly home with the body of 22-year-old stewardess Khairunnisada Haidar once she has been formally identified - suggested the jet had encountered 'very unique weather.'

Mr Soejatman meanwhile remains convinced that the reason for the crash, while officially a mystery, is possibly because the aircraft was caught in a severe updraft, followed by an equally severe ground draft.

He said that leaked figures showed the plane climbed at a virtually unprecedented rate of 6000ft to 9000ft per minute and 'you can't do that at altitude in an Airbus 320 with pilot action.'

The most that could normally be expected, he said, would be 1000ft to 1500ft on a sustained basis, gaining 3000ft in a burst.

But then the aircraft fell at an even more incredible rate of 11,000ft a minute, with extraordinary bursts of up to 24,000ft a minute - figures higher than the Air France A330 Airbus that crashed into the Atlantic in 2009, killing 228 passengers after attaining baffling ascent and descent rates.

Mr Marosszeky agreed that a climb rate of at least 6000ft a minute would indicate a 'severe weather event,' because that rate of climb was a 'domain for jet fighters.'

The full version of the article :
Brought down by a meteor? AirAsia plane soared 'as fast as a fighter jet' and then fell almost vertically