Am I a psychopath?

[katatonically]

Is it possible for someone to be doing the work and still be a psychopath?

If so how would that work? Could they be fooling themselves into believing that they are sincere in their efforts, or even possibly be sincere in their efforts and still be a psychopath? Would they know they are a psychopath? and could they be fooling themselves as well as others? Could it be possible for them to resonate with the material if they are fooling themselves? Could they be working on their programming and still seem to be making progress? Could I be a psychopath and not know it? If so how would I determine if I am one?

I have read a lot of the material on the cass site about psychopaths and Martha Stout's The Sociopath next door, but how objective can one be about ones self, if they are a psychopath trying to hide that fact from themselves? My understanding of it. is that programming can appear to be psychopathic behavior. If I am correct in this, then how do I determine which it is? After long self analysis I have come to the conclusion that I am not a psychopath but a human in struggle, trying to rid myself of some pretty ugly programming. But how can I be sure?
Kat

 

[Mr. Premise]

It seems to me that psychopaths know they are psychopaths, or at least know they are different from normal people.

Does the pain of other people make you laugh inside? Or do you feel bad when other people feel bad. It's really that simple, IMO.

 

[Pierre]

After long self analysis I have come to the conclusion that I am not a psychopath but a human in struggle, trying to rid myself of some pretty ugly programming. But how can I be sure?
Kat

If you didn't read it yet, you might find this extract from the Cs transcript helpful

A: Now, do not start labeling without due consideration. Remember that very often the individual who
displays contradictory behavior may be a souled being in struggle.
Q: (L) I would say that the chief thing they are saying is that the really good ones - you could never tell
except by long observation. The one key we discovered from studying psychopaths was that their actions
do not match their words. But what if that is a symptom of just being weak and having no will? (A) How can
I know if I have a soul?
A: Do you ever hurt for another?
Q: (V) I think they are talking about empathy. These soulless humans simply don't care what happens to
another person. If another person is in pain or misery, they don't know how to care.
A: The only pain they experience is "withdrawal" of "food" or comfort, or what they want. They are also
masters of twisting perception of others so as to seem to be empathetic. But, in general, such actions are
simply to retain control.

 

[Laura]

I would say that a psychopath NEVER wonders if they are one.

 

[katatonically]

I definitely feel other people's emotional, mental and physical pain, in fact I sometimes wonder if I am too sensitive. But can it really be that simple?

 

[vinny]

I would say that a psychopath NEVER wonders if they are one.

although, if they were clued-up enough, they might say they are wondering... as a kind of double-bluff in order to disguise their true nature.

I definitely feel other people's emotional, mental and physical pain, in fact I sometimes wonder if I am too sensitive. But can it really be that simple?

I think that's your answer. and, yeah, why not that simple!? ;)

the other question you ask, about fooling yourself about making progress - i think that's a different question. Gurdjieff makes a lot of the idea that we are overpoweringly mechanical/automatic in everything we do - he says that the first and very difficult thing that one needs to do to make any progress against this is to stop lying to oneself. And, it seems that we all too readily lie to ourselves all the time. my understanding of this is that it is to do with psychological 'buffers' that keep us comfortable, and protect our ego from shocks, so progress in the work involves firstly recognising, then 'debugging' and removing these buffers, in order to see and understand our true 'manouvres' underneath, to understand why we do things, and so to then be able to make better decisions, and perhaps actually take some control of our actions and really 'do' something.

'In Search of the Miraculous' by Ouspensky is a great introduction to some of these concepts. Also, you might be very interested to check out the 'depression as a stepping stone to the work' article which is somewhere around on the site map, and also has a great discussion thread on the forum here too:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=2832
(the thread has a link to the original article)

 

[Ruth]

I would say that a psychopath NEVER wonders if they are one.

I think this is very true. Further more, they don't care about anything or anyone with the exception of themselves and their precious 'masks of sanity' which are vital for them to maintain in order to fool people.

 

[Guest]

After long self analysis I have come to the conclusion that I am not a psychopath but a human in struggle, trying to rid myself of some pretty ugly programming. But how can I be sure?
Kat

If you didn't read it yet, you might find this extract from the Cs transcript helpful

A: Now, do not start labeling without due consideration. Remember that very often the individual who
displays contradictory behavior may be a souled being in struggle.
Q: (L) I would say that the chief thing they are saying is that the really good ones - you could never tell
except by long observation. The one key we discovered from studying psychopaths was that their actions
do not match their words. But what if that is a symptom of just being weak and having no will? (A) How can
I know if I have a soul?
A: Do you ever hurt for another?
Q: (V) I think they are talking about empathy. These soulless humans simply don't care what happens to
another person. If another person is in pain or misery, they don't know how to care.
A: The only pain they experience is "withdrawal" of "food" or comfort, or what they want. They are also
masters of twisting perception of others so as to seem to be empathetic. But, in general, such actions are
simply to retain control.

It seems to me that it would be much easier to tell if you are a psychopath then to label someone else a psychopath since you would know if you are capable of feeling empathy for someone. It would be much harder to determine if someone who is a good psychopath was capable of feeling empathy since you could only go by their actions.

I agree that the best indication that you are not a psychopath is the very fact that you would seriously consider that you could be.

 

[katatonically]

After long self analysis I have come to the conclusion that I am not a psychopath but a human in struggle, trying to rid myself of some pretty ugly programming. But how can I be sure?
Kat

If you didn't read it yet, you might find this extract from the Cs transcript helpful

A: Now, do not start labeling without due consideration. Remember that very often the individual who
displays contradictory behavior may be a souled being in struggle.
Q: (L) I would say that the chief thing they are saying is that the really good ones - you could never tell
except by long observation. The one key we discovered from studying psychopaths was that their actions
do not match their words. But what if that is a symptom of just being weak and having no will? (A) How can
I know if I have a soul?
A: Do you ever hurt for another?
Q: (V) I think they are talking about empathy. These soulless humans simply don't care what happens to
another person. If another person is in pain or misery, they don't know how to care.
A: The only pain they experience is "withdrawal" of "food" or comfort, or what they want. They are also
masters of twisting perception of others so as to seem to be empathetic. But, in general, such actions are
simply to retain control.

It seems to me that it would be much easier to tell if you are a psychopath then to label someone else a psychopath since you would know if you are capable of feeling empathy for someone. It would be much harder to determine if someone who is a good psychopath was capable of feeling empathy since you could only go by their actions.

I agree that the best indication that you are not a psychopath is the very fact that you would seriously consider that you could be.

Then this brings up the question of how can you tell if someone is a psychopath. What about someone who appears to show empathy, but who is also incredibly callous most of the time.

 

[Amanecer]

Then this brings up the question of how can you tell if someone is a psychopath. What about someone who appears to show empathy, but who is also incredibly callous most of the time.

1. I think there is a small voice inside us (intuition), that alerts us to the "odd" yet subtle behaviors of the psychopath.

2. Unfortunately, a psychopath is often not "realized" until you have been a victim of one.


When I got "tangled" up with a psychopath, I heard that "small voice" but I did not listen to it. I have wondered if that was a result of my own programming. I have been trying to discover the emotional program that caused me to give in to this type of behavior. I want to be strong enough to "run away....far, far, away" the next time I encounter such a person!!

I also agree with Laura's earlier post. A psychopath would never think he/she were the problem.

 

[propaganda]

When I got "tangled" up with a psychopath, I heard that "small voice" but I did not listen to it.

Same here. If that small voice tells you to "stay away", listen to it, you are told for a reason.

 

[katatonically]

[1. I think there is a small voice inside us (intuition), that alerts us to the "odd" yet subtle behaviors of the psychopath.

Same hear. If that small voice tells you to "stay away", listen to it, you are told for a reason.

I have been hearing that voice for some time and ignoring it because I don't want to believe that someone I care about could be a psychopath. I also don't want to be too quick to label someone a psychopath because I could be wrong and then I have done them a terrible injustice. Yet I realize I need to protect myself from them and also, if possible, prevent them from hurting others that I care about.

 

[Hildegarda]

Extreme moral relativism is another clue, as I found out just recently. When somebody keeps going on and on, like an energizer bunny, about how moral values are SO relative, how there conscience is a purely learned thing, how EVERYbody is basically capable of anything, and that's OK we have to respect that and not to judge anyone.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

When I got "tangled" up with a psychopath, I heard that "small voice" but I did not listen to it.

Same hear. If that small voice tells you to "stay away", listen to it, you are told for a reason.

I think your inner sanity is repulsed at the pathological deviancy and lack of empathy from such beings. But, your inner psychopath is repulsed by ideas that challenge your pathocratically-induced programming. And we ALL have an inner psychopath, because we've all grown up in the same pathologically deviant environment, as it exists in all corners of the earth. We're talking years of programming on many levels.

So while I think that it is important to listen when some voice in your head says something, it is extremely foolish to act on that voice without understanding WHERE this voice is coming from, and WHY it is saying what it is saying. To those who are insane, it's everyone else who is insane. And that aspect of ourselves that is psychologically deviant, or even more to the point, the aspects of ourselves that are lies, always react negatively to truths that challenge them. The aspects of ourselves that are true always react negatively to lies that try to distort them. The aspects of ourselves that are empathic always react negatively to lack of empathy. But the aspects of ourselves that are psychopathic, always react negatively to true empathy. And that last point I think is especially tricky, because if at some point during our day the psychopathic part of ourselves is at the driver's seat, then we will have a distorted sense of empathy, and an act of true empathy may, at that moment, appear like an act of psychopathy. White will seem black and vice versa. What is self defense will seem like attack. What is refusing to tolerate lies will seem like "cutting off freedom of speech". What is giving to someone what they ask (and by extension, refusing to give what is NOT asked) will seem like selfishness or conceit.

And I only say this because I have made this mistake before. I listen to a voice, think it's my intuition, and later discover I was wrong. Sometimes, it really was intuition though, and this "later discovery" was actually a submission to the clever manipulation. And yet, there were times when I thought that the person I was looking at really was a psychopath, something inside me told me to stay away, and yet it was my own fear, my own lies afraid of being in the presense of that person, because I knew that he would challenge them in the most direct way, and it made me afraid, and I had completely misjudged where that fear was coming from. It was MY pathological self that was reeling in terror, MY lies, but I didn't See that at the time, I thought it was my "inner voice" protecting me.

So please, find out there WHERE and the WHY before obeying a feeling or a voice. I also know that after a certain amount of inner work, the WHERE and WHY come practically instantly with the feeling/voice, and the feeling is no longer disassociated from the understanding. Your centers no longer act sporadically, there is no longer a wall of confusion separating the centers from one another, or at least a smaller and smaller wall. And my wall is still pretty high, some things I see right away, but way too often I am wrong and so I always try to be very careful about my assessment of someone. Because I know that as I do that, I must also be assessing my own assessment, and myself in the process.

Btw, I'm not telling anyone to doubt their intuition. Just to first know what is truly intuition and what only seems like it.

 

[highmystica]

I agree with scio in that we all have a bit of psychopathy induced by growing up on this planet. How can one not? But the real question kat is what would you do if you were confronted with overwhelming evidence that you were a true psychopath - would you strive against it - or would you take it as an excuse to rationalize your actions as you entered the mall with a flamethrower - that would be telling. Personally I am of the opinion that you are not a psychopath simply in that you are asking, and in that asking you are pointing out a part of you that causes a measure of distress and pain. I know it is terribly personal kat, but why would you ask the question in the first place? All of us have a measure of what I would term "simple-selfishness" we do live in this fine STS wonderland afterall.
Regarding all those folk above that spent their time dating a psychopath - aye, sometimes it is hard very hard to ignore love or rather the potential for love even when veiled in lies - but next time if you can't listen to your own inner workings - at least listen to your true friends - go with me on this ...