Am I missing something here, in regards to the energy centers?

[Weontv]

I am just reading skimming through the transcripts again and cross referencing to the Law of One/Ra material and I would like to point something out that isn't making sense to me, maybe one of you could provide some insights?

Q: Is this a correspondence that starts at the basal chakra which relates to the sexual center as described by Mouravieff?

A: No. The "sexual center" corresponds to the solar plexus.

Lower moving center - basal chakra

Lower emotional - sexual chakra

Lower intellectual - throat chakra

Higher emotional - heart chakra

Higher intellectual - crown chakra

Q: (L) What about the so-called seventh, or "third eye" chakra?

A: Seer. The union of the heart and intellectual higher centers.

{Laura's note: This would "close the circuit" in the "shepherd's crook"

configuration.}

So it is stated here that these are the energy centers mentioned continuously in spiritual material and from what I see, there are only 6 mentioned centers.. The lower or base chakra(usually the Red center), the Sexual Center, which I am assuming is the third center, since its mentioned that its the solar plex, and is usually called the Yellow one? Then the throat, usually called the blue? Heart, called the green? and crown, the Violet? then its mentioned the 'third eye" is the connection between the Heart and Crown, which I am assuming would be the Indigo chakra? So from what I count, the C's provide 6 centers which is a direct contradiction to what Ra states here:

Ra: I am Ra. The steps are only one; that is, an understanding of the energy centers which make up the mind/body/spirit complex. This understanding may be briefly summarized as follows. The first balancing is of the Malkuth, or Earth, vibratory energy complex, called the red-ray complex. An understanding and acceptance of this energy is fundamental. The next energy complex, which may be blocked is the emotional, or personal complex, also known as the orange-ray complex. This blockage will often demonstrate itself as personal eccentricities or distortions with regard to self-conscious understanding or acceptance of self.

The third blockage resembles most closely that which you have called ego. It is the yellow-ray or solar plexus center. Blockages in this center will often manifest as distortions towards power manipulation and other social behaviors concerning those close and those associated with the mind/body/spirit complex. Those with blockages in these first three energy centers, or nexi, will have continuing difficulties in ability to further their seeking of the Law of One.

The center of heart, or green ray, is the center from which third-density beings may springboard, shall we say, towards infinite intelligence. Blockages in this area may manifest as difficulties in expressing what you may call universal love or compassion.

The blue-ray center of energy streaming is the center which, for the first time, is outgoing as well as inpouring. Those blocked in this area may have difficulty in grasping the spirit/mind complexes of its own entity and further difficulty in expressing such understandings of self. Entities blocked in this area may have difficulties in accepting communication from other mind/body/spirit complexes.

The next center is the pineal or indigo-ray center. Those blocked in this center may experience a lessening of the influx of intelligent energy due to manifestations which appear as unworthiness. This is that of which you spoke. As you can see, this is but one of many distortions due to the several points of energy influx into the mind/body/spirit complex. The indigo-ray balancing is quite central to the type of work which revolves about the spirit complex, which has its influx then into the transformation or transmutation of third density to fourth density, it being the energy center receiving the least distorted outpourings of love/light from intelligent energy and having also the potential for the key to the gateway of intelligent infinity.

The remaining center of energy influx is simply the total expression of the entity’s vibratory complex of mind, body, and spirit. It is as it will be, “balanced” or “imbalanced” has no meaning at this energy level, for it gives and takes in its own balance. Whatever the distortion may be, it cannot be manipulated as can the others and, therefore, has no particular importance in viewing the balancing of an entity.(This would be the Violet Ray, according to them, I believe)


So my question is that, did the C's overlook one of the centers? or does the Orange center not exist? I am having a hard time coming to anything conclusive and my knowledge in this is probably limited, but to me, the Ra interpretation makes a lot of sense, but I tend to think the C's transcript material is more accurate in general. :/

Anyone that could clarify here? Would be greatly appreciated. :D

 

[Solie123]

Huh... Now I'm curious as well.

Based on Laura's comment:

What about the so-called seventh, or "third eye" chakra?

I'm not sure if she's acknowledging a seventh charka by that statement or the

'so-called'

being a debunking of idea hitherto known.

If she's acknowledging the seventh chakra, I'm considering that perhaps the solar plexus and the sexual chakra are two separate things. I mean it's really hard to decipher out of context... Do you mind linking the session please?

 

[Persej]

I'm considering that perhaps the solar plexus and the sexual chakra are two separate things.

No, they are the same thing:

A: The "sexual center" corresponds to the solar plexus.

So from what I count, the C's provide 6 centers which is a direct contradiction to what Ra states here:

Not a contradiction necessarily, but it could be a different way of describing things. For example, Mouravieff says that in the end we end up with only 5 chakras, once the higher emotional swallows the lower emotional: _http://www.borismouravieff-gnosis.com/images/diagrams/volume1/diagram26.jpg

 

[Windmill knight]

Not sure, but I've always understood that fragment as the solar plexus being the seat of the sexual center, and what is normally referred to as the "sexual chakra" (around the genitals I suppose) being the seat of the lower emotional center. So it's two different ones, in which case you count seven, like this:

Lower moving center - basal chakra

Lower emotional - "sexual" chakra

Sexual center - solar plexus

Lower intellectual - throat chakra

Higher emotional - heart chakra

Third eye - union of higher centers

Higher intellectual - crown chakra

 

[paralleloscope]

Yes, what is usually called; sacral chakra / Svadhisthana / sexual chakra / 'orange one', is supposedly the seat of the lower emotional center, and solar plexus is the sexual center (and that's not 'sex' in the sense usually understood). To understand the idea of centers as referenced by the C's, Mouravieff's 'Gnosis' series is the one to read. Here is a graphic juxtaposing the C's perspective and Mouravieff's center diagram:

 

[Persej]

That's a very pretty graphics Parallel. Thank you! :)

And we can also see the "shepherd's crook. ;)

 

[Weontv]

Oh wow, I was assuming that "center' and "chakra" in this case were being used as synonyms, now I see the distinction. Thank you so much for the clarification and all of the answers.. I clearly need to read more Mouravieff and Gurdjieff to supplement these transcripts. Appreciate it guys and gals! :D

 

[Persej]

Oh wow, I was assuming that "center' and "chakra" in this case were being used as synonyms, now I see the distinction.

And what is the distinction?

 

[Neil]

I've been going back through all of this stuff for a project I'm working on, and got a little stuck on there being two "sex" chakras as well. I'm thinking it is more a semantic issue than anything else.

Now the conventional wisdom on the third chakra/yellow ray says that it has to do with relationships with others, which are generally not sexual. I guess relationship with God, would fall under this as well, which is what the Cassiopaeans seem to be getting at when they say that souled beings rejuvenate their energy through this chakra in union with the one. Now this reminds me of something spoken of in the Hindu texts where it describes the different relationships one can have with Krishna, basically the supreme deity. There are five positive relationships one can have with Krishna; awe, servant, friend, parent, and conjugal. The conjugal has been a sticking point for some people because it implies that you make out with God or something. Furthermore, this conjugal relationship occurs with a being that exists in a purely spiritual realm, as opposed to the lower planets in Hindu cosmology that have greater materiality and in some cases sensuality. Putting together little hints left here and there in the Cassiopaean transcripts, I have hypothesized elsewhere on the forum that there is a more rarified form of sex on higher planes that basically amounts to a "soul merge." So this conjugal relationship with Krishna is something like experiencing union with the love of the Absolute (God).

Getting back to Mouravieff and his holy trinity, I would say that his lower emotional center (orange ray/sexual chakra) utilizes the coarser impressions that are under the sway of the Absolute III and basically only processes "love" in it's carnal manifestations. The sexual center (yellow ray/relationship chakra) is capable of working with higher level energies from the Absolute I/II, which transcend physical sexuality and go into the "soul merge" territory. Mouravieff talks about that a great deal when he talks about Polar Beings utilizing Hydrogen 12 energy, which is of very high vibration, to accomplish some kind of fusion. The Hydrogen 12 can either be used consciously by the Polar couple for transmutation, or can be more or less drained off with mechanical intercourse. In addition, perhaps this higher vibrational energy of love can be shared among companions in your soul group with whom you are not really related in any sexual sense and still accomplish a sort of gradual group transmutation.

So I think chakras are more or less synonymous with centers, it's just when you get into comparing different systems, they define the same concepts differently which leads to confusion. Most people would understand sex as having to do with the orange ray chakra. I don't think it's wrong at all to call this a "lower emotional center" because it's where most of the notions of what love is and the chemical machinery that goes along with it comes from for Man number 1,2, and 3. On the other hand, referring to the yellow ray chakra as a sexual center requires a broader understanding of what sex might entail for more esoterically evolved individuals. Sure, it can be physical sex, but it can also be so much more than that.

So that's my view on the conundrum at the moment. Choose the conceptual framework that you want to use, and then when the need comes to translate from one language to another, use your discernment to avoid confusion.

The only exception I see to the Chakra=Center equation is the magnetic center, which describes more of a process of being able to connect the lower chakras to the higher chakras rather than being a separate chakra unto itself.

 

[lainey]

Not sure, but I've always understood that fragment as the solar plexus being the seat of the sexual center, and what is normally referred to as the "sexual chakra" (around the genitals I suppose) being the seat of the lower emotional center. So it's two different ones, in which case you count seven, like this:

Lower moving center - basal chakra

Lower emotional - "sexual" chakra

Sexual center - solar plexus

Lower intellectual - throat chakra

Higher emotional - heart chakra

Third eye - union of higher centers

Higher intellectual - crown chakra

Thanks for clarifying that. I had the two sexual ones mixed up in my notes. That makes much better sense now.

 

[lilyalic]

Not sure, but I've always understood that fragment as the solar plexus being the seat of the sexual center, and what is normally referred to as the "sexual chakra" (around the genitals I suppose) being the seat of the lower emotional center. So it's two different ones, in which case you count seven, like this:

Lower moving center - basal chakra

Lower emotional - "sexual" chakra

Sexual center - solar plexus

Lower intellectual - throat chakra

Higher emotional - heart chakra

Third eye - union of higher centers

Higher intellectual - crown chakra

Thanks for clarifying that. I had the two sexual ones mixed up in my notes. That makes much better sense now.

I had a short Reiki session a few weeks back and was told that my sacral area seemed tied up and "needed more work" - it was around my lower back/ stomach area. I was told that this is where the emotional ties/hooks are within us. Was this in reference to the Lower emotional /sexual chakra?

 

[whitecoast]

Oh wow, I was assuming that "center' and "chakra" in this case were being used as synonyms, now I see the distinction.

And what is the distinction?

I don't mean to answer on behalf of Weontv, but my (imperfect) understand of the distinction between the Grudjieff understanding of centers and the hindu/newage understanding of chakras is thus:

Centers are information processing centers for distinct types of conscious impressions and their subconscious extensions and implications. The motor center is the somatic/instinctive processor, and is distributed wherever these types of conscious and subconscious sensations derive (such as the brain stem, thalamus, cerebellum, etc.) The emotional center would be the amygdala and probably some of our organ intelligence also, to the extent to which they participate in conscious and subconscious sensations directing action the way we typically understand emotions. Thinking center probably involves mostly cortical materials for applying computational logic, visualizing, and higher executive functioning. The higher centers are probably para- or non-physical in origin, so I'm not too sure how they figure into things. I find it easy to imagine the solar plexus being the "sex center" because of the amount of nerve tissue and neurotransmitters down there which operate on a purely vegetative level. It was even known to the chinese as a chi energy battery. A good analogy I've heard of brain's triune functioning is that of circuit-breaking. The higher functions are summoned to perform tasks the lower functions are not equipped for, or address imperfectly. Each part of the brain has a different level of development depending on what Type of individual they are (1, 2, or 3), so some parts may hog functions better reserved for others.

Chakras (literally wheels) are distributed throughout the entire body, and to me are not processors for types of sensations (physical, emotional, intellectual) but rather aggregates of the same sensations. The lowest "root" chakra being in the feet, legs, and lower half of the body signifies moreeso the sensations of having a properly working root (being "grounded" in other words). When people feel unsafe for example, they lose groundedness because they lose sensation in the lower portions of their body. So right there we have a linking of physical and emotional impressions. Another example is the third eye. Sometimes feelings of soreness there can just be from thinking too hard about stuff (or visualizing a whole lot), but it can also mean some unconscious information (perhaps from a higher center) is trying really hard to reach your conscious awareness, and so is attempting to build neural connections to the cortex accordingly.

This is closely related to by Gurdjieff's discussion of how all our physical, emotional, and mental "postures" are interlinked.

[quote author=ISOTM]"You must understand that the three principal centers, the thinking, the emotional, and the moving, are connected together and, In a normal man, they are always working in unison. This unison is what presents the chief difficulty in work on oneself. What is meant by this unison? It means that a definite work of the thinking center is connected with a definite work of the emotional and moving centers—that is to say, that a certain kind of thought is inevitably connected with a certain kind of emotion (or mental state) and with a certain kind of movement (or posture); and one evokes the other, that is, a certain kind of emotion (or mental state) evokes certain movements or postures and certain thoughts, and a certain kind of movement or posture evokes certain emotions or mental states, and so forth. Everything is connected and one thing cannot exist without another thing.

"Now imagine that a man decides to think in a new way. But he feels in the old way. Imagine that he dislikes R." He pointed to one of those present. "This dislike of R. immediately arouses old thoughts and he forgets his decision to think in a new way. Or let us suppose that he is accustomed to smoking cigarettes while he is thinking—this is a moving habit. He decides to think in a new way. He begins to smoke a cigarette and thinks in the old way without noticing it. The habitual movement of lighting a cigarette has turned his thoughts round to the old tune. You must remember that a man can never break this accordance by himself. Another man's will is necessary, and a stick is necessary. All that a man who wants to work on himself can do at a certain stage of his work is to obey. He can do nothing by himself.

{snip}

"The character of the movements and postures in every epoch, in every race, and in every class is indissolubly connected with definite forms of thinking and feeling. A man is unable to change the form of his thinking or his feeling until he has changed his repertory of postures and movements. The forms of thinking and feeling can be called the postures and movements of thinking and feeling. Every man has a definite number of thinking and feeling postures and movements. Moreover moving, thinking, and feeling postures are connected with one another in man and he can never move out of his repertory of thinking and feeling postures unless he changes his moving postures. An analysis of man's thoughts and feelings and a study of his moving functions, arranged in a certain way, show that every one of our movements, voluntary or involuntary, is an unconscious transition from one posture to another, both equally mechanical.[/quote]

So. Objectively centers appear to describe the nuts-and-bolts functioning of each conscious and unconscious impression processor, while chakras seem to align more closely with our subjective experience of the centers (i.e. not as distinct processes but always operating as one and interlinked.) The C's emphasize "connecting chakras" as well, which can come to mean harmonizing our action/emotional/intellectual aggregates with others to achieve oneness of purpose and feeling and understanding. Such work inevitably brings to light incorrect functioning of people's centers, which they can probably correct with enough knowledge input and self-remembering.

 

[Neil]

I had a short Reiki session a few weeks back and was told that my sacral area seemed tied up and "needed more work" - it was around my lower back/ stomach area. I was told that this is where the emotional ties/hooks are within us. Was this in reference to the Lower emotional /sexual chakra?

I think it is hard to know for certain without additional information. Based on the area you described, it would seem to be the sex center/yellow chakra. However, as whitecoast mentioned the chakras work together as a system, so it might be silly to look at one particular chakra and say "fix it." From my understanding, orange ray issues would have to do with your own internal issues, how well you treat yourself, and confidence in your abilities. Yellow ray issues would have to do with how you react to others, and how well you can find yourself and maneuver within larger collectives. So hooks could definitely be there, but they could also exist because of internal personal issues farther on down. It could in fact, be both.

Personally, if someone told me something like that, I might consider it something interesting to take a peek at, but you're completely reliant on the level of being of the practitioner when it comes to discerning the "diagnosis." I think the literature we study here details more objective ways to ascertain the validity of such claims and rectify the problems.

I can see what whitecoast is saying about the centers. Saying, "work on emotional center" addresses a cross section of potential imbalances across the chakras as they are commonly understood without getting bogged down into too narrow of a focus. The Cassiopaeans also told us that chakras are little understood at this level, so perhaps we don't really have a lot of good materials to draw conclusions from. I still think the two are pretty much the same, its just that the 4th way description seems to use more objective language to describe a fairly esoteric idea. The Hindu description of it probably has more distortions and "gloss" added to it over the millennia that, while still fairly descriptive, don't quite get to the heart of the matter or have the same level of utility.

 

[darksai]

Not sure, but I've always understood that fragment as the solar plexus being the seat of the sexual center, and what is normally referred to as the "sexual chakra" (around the genitals I suppose) being the seat of the lower emotional center. So it's two different ones, in which case you count seven, like this:

Lower moving center - basal chakra

Lower emotional - "sexual" chakra

Sexual center - solar plexus

Lower intellectual - throat chakra

Higher emotional - heart chakra

Third eye - union of higher centers

Higher intellectual - crown chakra

Thanks for clarifying that. I had the two sexual ones mixed up in my notes. That makes much better sense now.

I had a short Reiki session a few weeks back and was told that my sacral area seemed tied up and "needed more work" - it was around my lower back/ stomach area. I was told that this is where the emotional ties/hooks are within us. Was this in reference to the Lower emotional /sexual chakra?

The problem I see with most people that do this kind of work, especially those that give this kind of advice, that is that they lack the knowledge/understanding of the abuse of the lower centers/chakras by one another. If he or she has a real talent for this kind of thing, they quite possibly picked up on a blockage or lack of energy in the lower emotional center, but it doesn't mean that the cause originated there. It could easily be an underlying belief, "buffer" or little I in the lower intellectual center that's stealing from or preventing the natural flow of energy in the emotional center, for example.