Am I naive? Scam or no scam?

[Mal7]

In your case, the only data you have is overhearing of 'Chicken' when he said he needed money for staying in hotel. so seems to me like a scam, though not conclusive.

He only needed $15 for the accomodation, so the extra $5 of the $20 could go on the Chicken meal.

After reading through the thread and links, I now think perhaps more likely than not the story was a scam. But since I still wouldn't like to have to say for certain whether it was or not, I am glad I gave the $20, which was no significant cost to me and probably helped give him a meal of chicken if nothing else.

He didn't seem like someone who would be spending the money on alcohol or drugs. He initially called out to my group of friends from a distance of a few yards away from us, near the entrance to the dorm carpark. One friend went up and stood close to him to hear his story, and then I went up and joined him. He was talking fast, trying to get his whole story about, and then put one hand on his chest saying he thought he was going to have an anxiety attack. I asked "How much do you need? $40?" and he said no he only needed $14 or $15 dollars. So if he was planning on staying at the motel half a block away (which he had named, which also made the story convincing), then he must have had some money already, but not enough to cover the whole cost. (This also made it convincing, as it would be unusual to be driving across the country with no money at all.)

It is hard to tell for certain as the whole point of a good scam is that a plausible story is told. I myself years ago was once in a situation of travelling from Wellington back to Dunedin with zero money, approaching strangers with my true story and receiving variously some very charitable help, and some brush-offs.

In a carpark in Picton, where I had spent the night sleeping under bushes and lighting small fires occasionally to warm my hands, I knocked on the door of a caravan early in the morning, and the man inside it walked me back to his house a couple of blocks away (I don't know why he'd been spending the night in the caravan) and gave me a big breakfast and some cigarettes for the journey.

In Kaikoura I asked a man eating chips (french fries) at a sidewalk table if I could have some, as I didn't have any money etc. but was rebuffed. Then later he threw about half his chips away in the garbage can when he had finished eating them, from where I was able to retreive them. I also got free food from a supermarket and slept the night free at a backpackers after explaining my situation.

As for being scammed, when I was 22 and had 5 nights in Bangkok on my own en route to Nepal I was definitely very naive. A very friendly man engaged me saying I was like his brother etc. and how much he liked me. I ended up letting him come up to my hotel room where I heard all sorts of implausible stories, like how he had a friend in Nepal who he could arrange 1 month's accomodation with, and how he ran a casino and would give me money and show me how to play for free, and how his daughter wanted a VISA credit card and could he look at my one to see what it looked like? Fortunately I left that hotel the next day for another one in a different area and came to no harm.

Then there was the scam also in Bangkok of some kind of "Government International Jewellery Sale Day" where Jewellery was supposed to be dramatically reduced in price, so that you could buy something for $1000 that you could sell back in your own country for $5000. This was one of the places the tuk-tuk drivers take you to, no matter where you actually want to go. I had no interest in buying the jewellery, but somehow I ended up handing over my credit card anyway, maybe because they put some kind of gullibility pill in the coffee they offered me? I am not sure. Anyway fortunately I came to no loss again as they were unable to put the charge through on the credit card.

 

[Lan8r]

What is a Scam? Really?

Like others, I see this most everyday. Unfortunately it is part of the world in which we live. More so now even. In my opinion, it is very simple. If you are able to give, give. If not, then you cannot give. And that is sometimes harder to handle than worrying that you may have been 'scammed' for a few bucks.

I remember having an argument with a friend, many years ago. She was telling me of a man she ran into outside of a McDonalds. He was asking for some money for food for his children. Even though she had money to give him, she refused because she was sure that he would use it for beer or even worse, whiskey. She told him she would buy some food from McD's for him and his children. And when he said no thanks, she was sure that she was right. I was floored by that because she claimed to be such a good christian woman.

I don't even listen to stories about why someone needs something, I just dig in my purse to find what I can. It is really not my business. I have given to people who say they need to feed their children, or need gas to get home to the next town and have seen them go across the street for a quart of beer. It is not my place to judge their needs.

I live paycheck to paycheck and sometimes have to borrow from Peter to pay Paul. But I have a paycheck. And a roof and even though it is 15 yrs old, I have a vehicle. I have, on a Wednesday, given what little cash I had to someone who asked, knowing that at midnight Friday my check will be direct deposited and I can surely make it till then, only to find myself on Thursday night, digging through ashtrays for cig butts to smoke. Laughing at myself when I think that 'man, I could have bought a pack of cigs with that money' and realize that I don't even have enough gas to make it to the store anyway!! Then I curl up in my comfortable bed, in my tiny apt wondering where that person might be sleeping tonight. Embarrassed by my selfish thoughts.

I DO feel scammed when I pay my car insurance, or my rent (which is unbelievably high for a studio apt). Or when I see the miniscule amount of my paycheck, especially after taxes. Now THAT is truly a scam!

 

[Lan8r]

PS: The last opportunity I was given to help someone in such a small way involved an older woman. She asked for 85 cents. I only had some pennies and a 5 dollar bill. I gave her the 5 spot and received the biggest, most generous hug I have felt in a long time. I got the feeling that she was very surprised that I didn't just wave my hand and walk off. Maybe I was scammed?, but the look of genuine appreciation on her face would make it worthwhile. But then I felt heartache. What kind of world do we live in that we care so little for our fellow man. That 5 dollars would mean so much to someone. And, that could be easily be me.

 

[Mal7]

I have given to people who say they need to feed their children, or need gas to get home to the next town and have seen them go across the street for a quart of beer. It is not my place to judge their needs.

If it is my money (and money has been equated with energy), I would see it as my place to use my judgement about where I want it to go. Why not? Would you give beer money to that same person again the following day? And perhaps all their friends as well when they learn you can be, when caught at the right moment, a walking cash dispenser?

I wouldn't call the high rent a scam, I would just call it expensive, exorbitant, or perhaps a rip-off. I think of a scam as being where something is obtained using false pretences.

Most people are fairly honest most of the time in their transactions. As an online bookseller myself, people have to trust that when they pay me money, I will send them the book they have ordered, and not scam them by just pocketing their money and sending them nothing in return. I don't think scamming should be encouraged, because the more prevalent it becomes, the more difficult it becomes to carry out everyday trust-based business with people.

In this particular case, it may not be worth trying to discriminate whether or not it is a scam, a guy needs $20, here you go. But what if it were $200? What if it were someone asking for $2 for a busfare, when I know very well that they have a gambling addiction and are going to gamble that $2 in a pokie machine? In that case, I would make a judgement about their need to have my $2, and keep my $2 to spend elsewhere. Or what if a beggar turned out to be part of a begging ring where their takings were collected by a criminal organisation? Or a begging woman was given a child to beg with by a criminal ring, so that her begging could be more effective, when that child might otherwise be in school?

But I do agree with you about the man outside McDonalds, maybe he wanted to head for the healthfood store around the corner to buy some nuts and sunflower seeds :)

 

[Lan8r]

If it is my money (and money has been equated with energy), I would see it as my place to use my judgement about where I want it to go. Why not? Would you give beer money to that same person again the following day? And perhaps all their friends as well when they learn you are a walking cash dispenser?

Actually, yes I would give beer money to that same person again the following day (if I had it to spare). It is not my place to judge him or his needs. I've never been in a position where all of someones friends thought I was a walking cash dispenser, so I can not answer that question. But, I think that I would catch on to being used in such a fashion.

But what if it were $200? What if it were someone asking for $2 for a busfare, when I know very well that they have a gambling addiction and are going to gamble that $2 in a pokie machine?

I don't have much in terms of money myself, my few dollars here and there can not be compared to 'What if it were $200'. That's a big stretch in my budget. I am not sure what a pokie machine is, but it is not my place to judge him or his needs. However, if he was a 'return customer', someone whom I knew well enough to know that he would gamble it, I would give it to him still (if I had an extra $2). Probably followed by a few words like 'I know your just gonna gamble this away', or 'I really wish you'd buy some food with this' or whatever. But it is not my place to judge him or his needs.

Or what if a beggar turned out to be part of a begging ring where their takings were collected by a criminal organisation? Or a begging woman was given a child to beg with by a criminal ring, so that her begging could be more effective, when that child might otherwise be in school?

I don't know that I have encountered something akin to a begging ring. Mostly just folks that are down and out. But I guess I will have to take my chances that my few dollars don't enrich the criminals. I have also never witnessed the scenario of a begging woman given a child to beg with. I can imagine that that would be a very effective tool in that respect. Although I would have to weigh that heavily with being in school! But I don't get out much. That may be more prevalent elsewhere. A bigger city perhaps.

Most people are fairly honest most of the time in their transactions. As an online bookseller myself, people have to trust that when they pay me money, I will send them the book they have ordered, and not scam them by just pocketing their money and sending them nothing in return. I don't think scamming should be encouraged, because the more prevalent it becomes, the more difficult it becomes to carry out everyday trust-based business with people.

I agree, most people are fairly honest most of the time, including the homeless and less fortunate that are just trying to survive day to day. You are obviously a trustworthy and respectable business person. The type I enjoy doing business with. The ones I seek out to share my financial energy with in order to meet my needs. And I do agree with you that 'scamming' should not be encouraged. But, unfortunately, scamming is the way of the corporations, and has been encouraged for decades. Personally, I am more happy to share a tiny bit of my 'money energy' (when I'm able) with someone whose need is even greater than mine. Than to throw it into the corporate cesspool of greed.

I wouldn't call the high rent a scam, I would just call it expensive, exorbitant, or perhaps a rip-off. I think of a scam as being where something is obtained using false pretences.

Just to be clear. I live in a multi-unit apartment complex. One of many owned by a corporation, run by a management company for the sole purpose of profit at the expense of the occupants. One in which the rent is adjusted to the 'current market value' ie: the value stipulated by the banksters. So, yes in my case (as it is with many others) the high rent is a scam.

 

[Leonarda]

I wouldn't call the high rent a scam, I would just call it expensive, exorbitant, or perhaps a rip-off. I think of a scam as being where something is obtained using false pretences.

Just to be clear. I live in a multi-unit apartment complex. One of many owned by a corporation, run by a management company for the sole purpose of profit at the expense of the occupants. One in which the rent is adjusted to the 'current market value' ie: the value stipulated by the banksters. So, yes in my case (as it is with many others) the high rent is a scam.

I agree 100% with Freya, I have been in the exact situation and I also consider it as a "scam", at least until you are aware of it (but again, sometimes there are few possibilities to choose even if you are aware of the scam, due to legislation, where you life, your family necessities etc)

For example, in Spain the government was giving young people (between 25-30 years) 200 euros per month to help pay the rent (specially in big cities it is sooo expensive, it's impossible to make a living) and what did most owner's do?? increase 200 euros the rent!!! There are a lot of people here in Spain that bought or inheritated flats and are renting them at a exorbitant price so they don't have to work anymore. And they prefer to have them empty instead of decreasing the rent.

 

[Sol Logos]

I've always looked at it like this: if a person is asking me for money, is begging on the street, is even making up a creative story to get some more money, they are in a worse situation than I am. Ocassionally some people have come up to me asking in a demanding way, I'd usually not give them anything but most of the time when someone's just asking respectfully, I'd give them what I've got spare, usually not much on me most of the time anyway. Occasionally too I stop to talk to them a bit, and wish them good luck. I mean, they're human beings like me, down on luck, probably always have been, probably not seen a lot of kindness in their lives either, if even one out of many is sincere, I've at least helped a bit.

I know if I never got any help in my life, I'd likely find myself having to beg too. You know that parable with the little girl saving starfish on the beach, something a bit like that I suppose - if there's one person you've genuinely helped out of a handful of insincere ones by a small act that's no skin of your back, its well worth it in my opinion.

 

[Gonzo]

I have given to people who say they need to feed their children, or need gas to get home to the next town and have seen them go across the street for a quart of beer. It is not my place to judge their needs.

If it is my money (and money has been equated with energy), I would see it as my place to use my judgment about where I want it to go. Why not? Would you give beer money to that same person again the following day? And perhaps all their friends as well when they learn you can be, when caught at the right moment, a walking cash dispenser?

I wouldn't call the high rent a scam, I would just call it expensive, exorbitant, or perhaps a rip-off. I think of a scam as being where something is obtained using false pretences.

Most people are fairly honest most of the time in their transactions. As an online bookseller myself, people have to trust that when they pay me money, I will send them the book they have ordered, and not scam them by just pocketing their money and sending them nothing in return. I don't think scamming should be encouraged, because the more prevalent it becomes, the more difficult it becomes to carry out everyday trust-based business with people.

In this particular case, it may not be worth trying to discriminate whether or not it is a scam, a guy needs $20, here you go. But what if it were $200? What if it were someone asking for $2 for a busfare, when I know very well that they have a gambling addiction and are going to gamble that $2 in a pokie machine? In that case, I would make a judgment about their need to have my $2, and keep my $2 to spend elsewhere. Or what if a beggar turned out to be part of a begging ring where their takings were collected by a criminal organisation? Or a begging woman was given a child to beg with by a criminal ring, so that her begging could be more effective, when that child might otherwise be in school?

But I do agree with you about the man outside McDonalds, maybe he wanted to head for the healthfood store around the corner to buy some nuts and sunflower seeds :)

Since you have had the miserable experience of having to beg for money or food, I'm surprised at your apparent lack of empathy. Other processes in your mind might be getting in the way.

For example, you are getting hung up on the false pretenses concept. You seem to value someone telling you the truth, so you can make an informed decision on whether to part with your funds. Is this something you might want to look at in yourself. Is there some program or wound in you associated with honesty?

Unfortunately, in this situation, it puts you in the position of deciding how your gift should be used. The genuine act of giving demands nothing in return, be it an explanation or even gratitude. I am almost certain the person asking you for money is worse off than you are. If the person were to ask for money so they could buy alcohol or drugs, not only would mot people refuse, many would also demonstrate disdain and offer their judgment and a lecture. People who chronically have to beg for money are already dispirited, humiliated and probably live in a state of self loathing. It's truly a gift to give someone who has nothing, regardless of the reason (addictions, mental illness, victim of circumstance, etc.), the luxury of having a few dollars in their pocket and the opportunity to choose for themselves how to spend it.

My mother used to volunteer with her church at the food bank. She quit after only a few weeks because she couldn't stand the attitudes of alleged Christians she worked with, who would know the personal circumstances of each person seeking food support (small town) and scoff at the clients who, they felt, were unworthy because they chose to spend their money on cigarettes, junk food, movies, alcohol or anything else that was non-essential to their survival. The prevailing attitude was that poor people should act poor and should have no quality of life, not to mention they should have miraculously high levels of ability to withstand the cravings of addictions. They looked at their clients with spite. Very few of the clients satisfied their criteria on worthiness.

It's easy to serve ones self by judging another. And, unless one is prepared to spend an incredible amount of time looking at all aspects of another person's life, and then committing to walking beside them through their lessons, treatments, etc., it's also easier to just give when asked, with no strings attached.

People's personal lives are just that, personal. It is none of our business and knowing how they are going to spend whatever we give them is their personal business. We don't walk in their individual shoes. We don't know what lessons they are here to learn. In the end, the only question we should have is to ourselves: are we here to help or hinder.

What was asked from you was money, not solving their problems for them, not getting involved in their personal life and certainly not your judgment.

At least that's my perspective.

Gonzo

 

[Mal7]

Since you have had the miserable experience of having to beg for money or food, I'm surprised at your apparent lack of empathy. Other processes in your mind might be getting in the way.

For example, you are getting hung up on the false pretenses concept. You seem to value someone telling you the truth, so you can make an informed decision on whether to part with your funds. Is this something you might want to look at in yourself. Is there some program or wound in you associated with honesty?

I agree I think it is the truth or honesty of the situation that I have been preoccupied with.

To be clear though, I didn't regret giving the money at the time, because at the time I thought most likely the individual was telling the truth. I don't regret having given the money now either, as I still think they could have been telling the truth, though I think now perhaps it is most likely that they were not.

The matter of whether I should have just given the money regardless of worrying about whether or not they were telling the truth or spinning a tall story was not an aspect I had considered. I think if I felt certain at the time that they were definitely lying, I would not have given any money, which would show some kind of restriction I am operating on in terms of my level of empathy.

Having said that though, I still don't think it is necessarily more empathic to just give money to anyone who asks, when you can afford to do so. If money is going towards buying someone with an alcohol addiction their next drink, I don't think giving them that money is actually helping them in any ultimate sense (i.e. as opposed to helping them fulfill their short-term desire for another drink).

 

[furryfrog]

Since you have had the miserable experience of having to beg for money or food, I'm surprised at your apparent lack of empathy. Other processes in your mind might be getting in the way.

Mal7 forked over her cash to this guy, her friends did not. Where is the apparent lack of empathy?

For example, you are getting hung up on the false pretenses concept. You seem to value someone telling you the truth, so you can make an informed decision on whether to part with your funds. Is this something you might want to look at in yourself. Is there some program or wound in you associated with honesty?

In Gnosis 1,(page 230), Mouravieff outlines the path of Access, which leads to the level of man 4. On the third step, the test is of Discernment and Skill. For us who are doing the work, finding out the true nature of the situation is important, for then we are properly prepared for the forth step, the test of love. Mouravieff outlines that pure love contains the elements of transfigured Desire; of Faith, Strength, and Discernment. True love is not Blind.
One can then decide what to do, they may still part with their money even if they know that the recipient is lying.

http://cassiopedia.org/glossary/Discernment

Unfortunately, in this situation, it puts you in the position of deciding how your gift should be used. The genuine act of giving demands nothing in return, be it an explanation or even gratitude.

That would be true if you micromanaged them on how they spent the money after you decided to give it to them.

The situation is if you will help this person who has asked, will you give him the money or not? Looking ahead with discernment, and objectivity is the STO way, it is not selfish, it is wise, because we have only finite resources at our disposal and must best decide how to allocate them.

Having said that though, I still don't think it is necessarily more empathetic to just give money to anyone who asks, when you can afford to do so.

I agree, Sometimes it can take more compassion and strength to say no, than to say yes.

 

[Psalehesost]

I still don't think it is necessarily more empathic to just give money to anyone who asks, when you can afford to do so. If money is going towards buying someone with an alcohol addiction their next drink, I don't think giving them that money is actually helping them in any ultimate sense (i.e. as opposed to helping them fulfill their short-term desire for another drink).

I think so too, because in such cases, "giving" is giving to the predator within that person, fueling their destruction. As such, I think it's actually the opposite of helping, and so of giving - and hence, that discernment is key, as in so many areas of life. That the law of three ("there is good, there is evil, there is the specific situation that determines which is which") also applies to giving people money, or indeed giving anything else.

Nowadays it is a popular idea that "judgment" is bad - but what does "judgment" mean? Certainly, it can mean the forming of opinions through some kind of mental process, where indeed things can go wrong (e.g. rigid or emotional thinking); or, it can mean such an opinion; or, asserting something one believes, whether true or false. Here, indeed, it is a good idea to be careful. But judgment also means "the mental ability to perceive and distinguish relationships; discernment", and "the capacity to assess situations or circumstances and draw sound conclusions; good sense" (The Free Dictionary). And that's something to grow and improve, not something to give up. Another point here is that outwardly, judgment may look the same (and be regarded as "judgment" in the modern sense) whether it is of the first variety or the second variety, while inwardly different.

Regarding what I began the post with, I was reminded of some remarks from a C's session:

Q: Then, is it true as my son said, when you give pity, when you send love and light to those in darkness, or those who complain and want to be "saved" without effort on their own part, when you are kind in the face of abuse and manipulation, that you essentially are giving power to their further disintegration, or contraction into self-ishness? That you are powering their descent into STS?

A: You know the answer!

Q: Yes. I have seen it over and over again.

Here, the original context was pity, and people who bring out pity in others as a way of feeding. I'd think that the above quote applies as much to money, however, given that money represents energy in our world.

 

[gaman]

I used to travel a lot and ran into many of the scenarios discussed. I figured I was about 30% accurate in guessing whether or not the person was lying, and less than that in discerning whether it would be actually helping a person (am I giving for assistance in some destructive behavior). I was also inconsistent about how I treated people who I was sure was lying. Sometimes it would insult me/my self importance and I wouldn't give, and sometimes I would be less self-centered and just care more about the overall situation and give them money because they were in some kind of need. I think the point mentioned about using the situations to develop better discernment skills is an important one that I never considered.

There is also safety to consider. I began carrying a wallet where most of the cash was hidden and about $30 in the visible area so that if I had to pull the wallet out there wouldn't be cash visible. If there weren't a lot of people around, or if the person seemed desperate and shaky (some kind of withdrawal / need) it would be important to just end the situation as quickly as possible and get out of there before they got a chance to fully engage.

 

[Gonzo]

Since you have had the miserable experience of having to beg for money or food, I'm surprised at your apparent lack of empathy. Other processes in your mind might be getting in the way.

Mal7 forked over her cash to this guy, her friends did not. Where is the apparent lack of empathy?

Certainly, his initial reaction may have been driven by empathy. However, I was referring to the later second guessing and hang up on whether the person was being honest about their plight, which was interfering with sustaining the empathy.

For example, you are getting hung up on the false pretenses concept. You seem to value someone telling you the truth, so you can make an informed decision on whether to part with your funds. Is this something you might want to look at in yourself. Is there some program or wound in you associated with honesty?

In Gnosis 1,(page 230), Mouravieff outlines the path of Access, which leads to the level of man 4. On the third step, the test is of Discernment and Skill. For us who are doing the work, finding out the true nature of the situation is important, for then we are properly prepared for the forth step, the test of love. Mouravieff outlines that pure love contains the elements of transfigured Desire; of Faith, Strength, and Discernment. True love is not Blind.
One can then decide what to do, they may still part with their money even if they know that the recipient is lying.

http://cassiopedia.org/glossary/Discernment

Perhaps I am not as advanced as you, but I wouldn't have felt qualified to determine the needs of this individual. I do not know that if I give money to a heroin addict that they will spend it on their addiction or food or rent, and I'm not sure if I'm in a position to judge which expenditure is in their best interest, being unaware of what their immediate needs are, let alone their life lessons and let alone to what degree their inner predator is running the show. It seems to me that, unless one is willing to invest the time and energy into learning a heck of a lot more about a person asking for help, all one has to go on is the information provided. So, since the devil is always in the details, and if we are genuinely interest in helping others, it might be a better course to probe further.

However, I freely admit the idea of deciding the needs for another, even when (or especially when) the predator's mind seems to be in control, is a grey area for me. We discussed this a couple of years ago with an example of coming across an unconscious person. We can discern their need for medical attention without them being able to request or specify. But that scenario is relatively easy. Anything more complex creates difficulty for me to determine the ideal response and I fall back on compassion and empathy in the absence of a more solid understanding.

Unfortunately, in this situation, it puts you in the position of deciding how your gift should be used. The genuine act of giving demands nothing in return, be it an explanation or even gratitude.

That would be true if you micromanaged them on how they spent the money after you decided to give it to them.

The situation is if you will help this person who has asked, will you give him the money or not? Looking ahead with discernment, and objectivity is the STO way, it is not selfish, it is wise, because we have only finite resources at our disposal and must best decide how to allocate them.

I don't see how the micromanaging component comes in. A gift is just that, a gift. It is given freely, without conditions. If you want to give a gift of food by giving money, it might be wiser to give food instead.

Having said that though, I still don't think it is necessarily more empathetic to just give money to anyone who asks, when you can afford to do so.

I agree, Sometimes it can take more compassion and strength to say no, than to say yes.

This is certainly where discernment plays a role. Although the reason the give might be out of the greatest of intentions, we all know the road to hell is paved with good intentions. But one could exhaust themselves trying to figure out every necessary to effectively discern. Some people are professional con men. But most of them work on the giver's greed or ego. The amount of people that an average person would encounter on the street asking for money who later turned out to be trying to get rich off such scams as opposed to those who are generally in need would be quite low, at least in my experience (I was a street musician for the better part of a decade and homeless for a small portion).

I also wonder about the effect of declining versus giving, when concerned about how the money might be used. It would be a real tragedy if a person's declining to help was the last rejection a wounded soul could handle, leading them to deeper despair or worse, suicide. It's quite difficult to measure that type of harm versus the harms that might come from giving money to an addict, for example. These grey areas remain a challenge for me, so I'm always interested in other perspectives.

 

[Buddy]

Recently while staying in Colorado as I was returning to the dorm we were staying in with 4 or 5 of my new friends, we met an agitated but polite and well-spoken man seeking help. His story was that he had just driven in from New York with his wife and daughter, who were just down the road in the foyer of a motel. His car had broken down and been towed away to a garage. He was in great need of another US$15 so he and his family could stay at the motel. He had already asked at the 7-Eleven and they had been unable to help. He said he was about to have an anxiety attack, and seemed like he was as well, and that he would give up his gold chain if necessary.

I was inclined to believe him, so I went back to my room and got US$20 and gave it to him. My friends all seemed inclined to not believe him, and that it was a scam. One advised “Don’t go anywhere with him” (Good advice, and I wasn’t intending to.) They said “His wife and daughter are not there. Ask him for his gold chain.” I said, “Maybe it’s a scam, but I’d feel bad if it wasn’t”.

So I gave him the US$20, and he seemed very grateful. We exchanged names, shook hands, and he said he’d pray for me. He walked away talking on his cellphone, saying how he had just got the money he needed and would also be able to buy a chicken something or other.

I think maybe it was a scam, but in terms of probabilities I still think probably he was genuine (at least 80-90% chance of genuine, if I had to put a figure on it.)

I know this is now a secondhand story, and it might be hard to judge without being there, but does anyone have any opinions about whether this was definitely a scam, or most likely not a scam, or, as I hold, hard to say decisively one way or another?

Based on what you wrote, I don't see evidence of a scam. I see probability that the guy was being straight with you and I'm sure I would have responded the same way you did.

 

[Galaxia2002]

It is crazy that one of the people that tried to scam me was my brother, and by an important amount of money. He had success until I noticed, and that made suspicious about this issue of lend or give away money.

There is a situation that confuses me. In the subway there is a campaing (not a rule or law) for not to give money to people who asks in the train, they say to "improve the service" however the system is plagued by beggars and they don't disturb really but for people that don't like hear people give pity for so to say. You see in there all kind of people asking.

A friend of mine that works in a foundation to help homeless and people in drugs told me that many of them are just lying because they know some of them and know that they use the money for drugs and that some earn much money in that way, almost the base salary. So I decided not to give to any person in the subway at least elderly and some exeptions but at the same time I shouldn't give money in that place and beggers know that they shouldn't be in there asking. Normally I refrain to give because I don't decide quickly because there is this conflict between to give but at the same time I am contribuiting to impair the system. So I probably have a black white thinking here. What do you think?