Am I progressing?

[abeofarrell]

I am recently especially making a lot of effort to maintain a state of self-remembering and I am starting more and more to see "Abe O'Farrell", my personality, as something separate from a weaker "I".

I would like to share some perceptions I have had recently. First, I increasingly feel like I am looking out through my eyes, kind of like playing a First Person Shooter game where I see my body but I feel a degree of separation, like I am possessing myself and can control it but at times it has a life of its own. When I allow my personality to get the upper hand I feel a connection between the feelings and the body. Often I see my body responding to something around me and then feel my emotions responding to my body. At times I can catch it before my emotions respond, but at times I am not objective enough and my emotions are led by my body.

Regarding thoughts, more and more I am seeing my personality's thoughts as though I am eavesdropping on somebody. Especially when I am interacting with others, then my emotions rise up and my thoughts respond. The thing is, unless I am remembering myself I cannot achieve this as my thoughts start to be automatic and I identify with them.

These experiences are slowly increasing, but often it is one step forward followed by two steps back. I also at times worry that I imagine things like this to convince myself that I am awake when I am not.

Another thing I have noticed, a habit, which I would love to have feedback on, is my body's response to self-observation. When I observe myself, and particularly when I separate observed and observer in self-remembering, then I start chewing on the inside of my mouth, as in biting on the skin on the inside of my mouth. But I never do this when I don't remember myself. I wonder if this is my body exhibiting nervous energy in response to being observed? Has anyone else seen examples of the moving center responding with a nervous habit when being observed? I try to stop it but cannot. I try to do what G said, to do something else so as to change the habit, but it always comes back, and then stops if I stop self-observing.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

 

[abeofarrell]

God, that was a terrible post. It feels so insincere. Am I only seeking affirmation? I apologize for my insincerity.

To be honest, I DO have such good moments, but am frustrated because they are always followed by down times of total mechanic automation. It feels like the whole do-re-mi thing where there are 2 points where you need a shock to move on or your go a different way, and I feel I missed out on a shock and am worried I am going the wrong way.

That is kind of why I post. I want to know if anyone else has similar experiences or if it is my sleeping imagination leading me further from the truth.

 

[mcb]

I am recently especially making a lot of effort to maintain a state of self-remembering and I am starting more and more to see "Abe O'Farrell", my personality, as something separate from a weaker "I".

I would say that anything you can do within reason to disrupt the status quo of non-observation is likely to help. Even some of the observing itself, though, can turn out to be part of your unconsciously-generated narrative. If that happens, observe it too.

I would like to share some perceptions I have had recently. First, I increasingly feel like I am looking out through my eyes, kind of like playing a First Person Shooter game where I see my body but I feel a degree of separation, like I am possessing myself and can control it but at times it has a life of its own.

Oh, you are still at "first person" -- wait until you can observe from across the room. ;)
I am joking, but only half joking. You certainly do want to consider how other people may see you, even if it is only a guess.

...These experiences are slowly increasing, but often it is one step forward followed by two steps back. I also at times worry that I imagine things like this to convince myself that I am awake when I am not.

As I mentioned above, there is reason to be concerned. The mind is awfully good at coming up with convincing narratives about what is happening, that need have no connection to reality. But if it happens, it is just something else to observe.

One thing I was taught is that as people become a bit more self-aware, they may start to become "slick" about appearing to be aware. That's not actually progress; it's more mind stuff. It's something else to watch for.

Another thing I have noticed, a habit, which I would love to have feedback on, is my body's response to self-observation. When I observe myself, and particularly when I separate observed and observer in self-remembering, then I start chewing on the inside of my mouth, as in biting on the skin on the inside of my mouth. But I never do this when I don't remember myself. I wonder if this is my body exhibiting nervous energy in response to being observed? Has anyone else seen examples of the moving center responding with a nervous habit when being observed? I try to stop it but cannot. I try to do what G said, to do something else so as to change the habit, but it always comes back, and then stops if I stop self-observing.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

I don't know what that is. Maybe others will have ideas. Like everything else, it is something you can observe.

 

[mcb]

God, that was a terrible post. It feels so insincere. Am I only seeking affirmation? I apologize for my insincerity.

Or you just want to make sure you are "doing it right."

To be honest, I DO have such good moments, but am frustrated because they are always followed by down times of total mechanic automation. It feels like the whole do-re-mi thing where there are 2 points where you need a shock to move on or your go a different way, and I feel I missed out on a shock and am worried I am going the wrong way.

Sometimes you do better, and sometimes you don't. You are here to learn, and you will. If it were too easy, you wouldn't.

That is kind of why I post. I want to know if anyone else has similar experiences or if it is my sleeping imagination leading me further from the truth.

I would guess that each of us is a unique "experiment," just as each of us has a unique DNA sequence. (Shades of The Prisoner -- in that sense each one of us is a number, a unique one.) I am sure, though, that we experience quite a bit in common. Many of your experiences sound vaguely familiar to me.

Whenever you start something new, you have to learn what to pay attention to and what to ignore. It can be overwhelming sometimes until you do. You will. Just establish the intention now that this is to be a lifetime process, not that you have to wait that long to see results.

 

[abeofarrell]

Megan, thank you for your response.

What you said about how others see me really hits home. That is the issue that keeps on coming up. I think I have a totally unrealistic view of who I am. Over the years I have tried to develop a "persona" to protect my self and to try and endear myself with others. But what my personality has become seems something totally different. I am continually shocked by how I am perceived and am asking myself "where do I go from here?". I keep on saying "Hey, that's not me at all so why do they see me like that? " but that must be the point: the I that people see is one part of my personality and definitely not the part I can see. Is it my chief characteristic? How do I fight with a fault I myself cannot see?

 

[Laura]

I would suggest that you read "Strangers to Ourselves" first, and then just start wading through the recommended reading, all the while observing yourself, and networking. You can't do this without a broad knowledge base and help from others. After a time, you can learn how to infer your own inner workings from various signs that your "machine" shows you. But really, it starts with learning about your machine, becoming convinced of its mechanicalness, and then learning how to really SEE yourself.

 

[abeofarrell]

I have ordered "Strangers to ourselves". Thank you for the recommendation. I think I need that book most right now. I have read most of the books on the recommended reading list relating to diet, psychopathy and the 4th Way, and also have read more widely on related subjects. Now I am overloaded with knowledge but lack understanding as my BEING is not developed enough. I see so many ingrained scripts and habits which I know need to be broken, but have not yet made progress. Most of my patterns relate directly to being bullied throughout schooling. The feeling of loneliness, the role of victim, the sense of being misunderstood by family, the crave for love and acceptance. I KNOW these are the main issues. Laura, I really am going 120% with self-observation. I am changing my diet as much as I can. I am just SOOOO frustrated with these ingrained habits! As you and others have pointed out, I come across as being shallow and defensive, probably because my personality will do anything to get acceptance. This includes lying to myself to try and create a feeling of being loved and accepted. This includes alcohol, pornography, binging on sweets and a long list of other behaviors. I have my ups and downs but sincerely want to work through this stuff. I really see my personality as a bully trying to get revenge for having been a victim. I often struggle to understand other's feelings due to the narcissistic tendency to seek attention and acceptance FIRST.

One reason why I tried to start the group online is connected to a feeling of loneliness and the desire to be part of a group. I know that here on the forum there is much room and opportunity for me to learn. Type A influences keep pulling me back . . .

I know that even if I promise to make an effort without a unified I there is not possibility of KEEPING my promises. Life has always been a battle for me, socially, emotionally, mentally and physically. All I can do is continue to push on, keep learning, keep observing . . .

I am always grateful for the objectivity of others and their patience when by right I could be rejected. One thing I can say is after a lifetime or yearning for spiritual knowledge and consciousness I am not going to give up.

Thank you.

 

[obyvatel]

Hi abeofarrell,
One general approach towards the Work that you may find worthwhile to consider is adopting a pragmatic approach. It involves looking at where one stands with a degree of detachment - without indulging in self-pity, rationalizing or moralizing. From there, as one wishes to progress towards certain goals, he seeks out knowledge and guidance that would help him in his path.

[quote author=abeofarrell]
One reason why I tried to start the group online is connected to a feeling of loneliness and the desire to be part of a group. I know that here on the forum there is much room and opportunity for me to learn. Type A influences keep pulling me back . . .
[/quote]

I would like to reiterate what Kniall wrote to you in the other thread parts of which I am quoting here

[quote author=Kniall]
Do you understand why it was foolish?
................
Thankfully, that hasn't happened in this case because you realised, thanks to feedback, that it wasn't a good idea. But what of your reasons for doing this? You say it was an impulse, that you acted without thinking, and that's true. Nevertheless, you must remember, between the time you came up with the idea and acted it out by setting up a fb group, at least some of the things that went through your mind?
[/quote]

The last part is very important imo. Numerous thoughts cross our minds - most of them are rooted in "A" influences as you wrote above. Yet we do not act on all of them. We do act on some of them only after we nourish those thoughts with our attention.

You say it was "loneliness and a desire to be part of a group". But is that the whole story? You have a group here that specifically discusses the topics that you are interested in. The impulse that you have had in starting a group of your own is not uncommon. It usually stems from a desire to be a leader/teacher. It is more about feeling important and powerful rather than a desire of "being accepted".

IMO it is important to identify and come to terms with this very common dynamic. The environment we live and breathe encourages this dynamic. I would say that in one sense, it is fortunate for you to have acted out on this impulse at an early stage of exposure to the Work and acquiring knowledge. It increased the chances that you would not succeed in moving further along that path of playing leader and pretty much nipped the whole thing in the bud. But it is up to you to learn from this experience and grow stronger from it. And it starts from seeing and simply acknowledging what happened without undue rationalization or moralization - osit.

 

[abeofarrell]

Obyvatel, thank you for your response, I was expecting one from you and was both interested in what you had to say and also a little nervous as from my experience with you you are quick to get to the crux of a matter. And I think you have achieved that.

You said that as the other responded mentioned I should think back to what was going on in my mind in the space between the decision and the action. Before the decision I was motivated by the desire to talk about things. Also, as I mentioned elsewhere I have several friends of Facebook who are almost at the point where they would try the 4th Way (some have bought ISOTM, etc) but if they saw mention of the religion, the Cs, smoking acceptance, aliens, etc then they would probably head in the opposite direction. Thinking about this I maybe thought I wanted to see them introduced to the 4th way ONLY. That is only part. The other part is that my character is very much a teacher. I have worked as a teacher all my professional life, and my character tends to be a teacher-like character. For this reason many people feel I am proud, opinionated, or have a superiority complex. Actually I love learning and when I learn something I want to tell people about it. Why am I like this? I still don't fully understand why. But that is always what happens with me. Do I want to be a LEADER? Well, in these areas I feel like an unborn baby. When you all talk about issues I always feel I do not have the right to contribute as I have way too little knowledge and even less understanding. I DO desire to share with others what I am learning though.

Apart from that dynamic I am sure there are other things happening. For one, over the past few months I have not made as much effort as I should have, so in some ways I was nervous about coming on to the forum. Again, I felt if I was not doing well in the Work I would be accepted less, which means in some ways receiving criticism and having to learn from that when actually I was in my comfort zone sharing casually on Facebook. Basically I was in denial and escape mode. Maybe I felt that if I had a group apart from here then I could share knowledge without feeling threatened by the need to act objectively. That is totally ridiculous considering that I stated the purpose of the group was to increase accountability and objectivity.

As you can see things are still so unclear. Here I am just letting all these ideas out but they have no clear structure and really don't help.

Please give me the next 24 hours to consider very seriously what everyone has said, particularly my motivations. I agree that this is important for me if I want to get off on the right foot. I will post again within the next 24 hours.

Again, thank you.

Abe

 

[Nienna]

Abe, since you have been studying the 4th Way, I am fairly certain that you are familiar with external consideration, strategic enclosure and self-importance.

It seems that what may have been going on is that your self-importance got the better of you and you decided you knew what was best for your friends and thought that you would steer them in the right direction. You were completely disregarding your friends free will to learn things in their own way at their own right time.

You say that you have always loved to teach. That, of course, puts you in control, makes you feel important and loved. These are things that were taken away from you as you were being bullied.

Maybe you could start practicing the external consideration and strategic enclosure and see your self-importance for what it really is. We all have to struggle with self-importance, it is not just you so don't feel that you are being singled out.

Also, you feeling that you don't know enough to contribute here is another form of self-importance. You cannot be seen as lacking in any way as that will make you seem imperfect in your own eyes, even though it would not appear that way to those who are here.

 

[abeofarrell]

Thanks for the reply Nienna. Like I said, please give me some time to think things through. Tomorrow I will post. Thank you.

 

[abeofarrell]

I spent a good deal of time last night going back in my mind to the time period surrounding the decision and action to make a Facebook group. Now I would like to post my conclusions.

First of all, as has already been suggested by others my motivation was STS not STO. The group is a chance (regardless of whether I am a leader or not) to boost my self-importance. Basically I wanted to have my cake and eat it. By starting a group with people who are not from here i could both be a "giver of knowledge" (yes, the blind leading the lame) and at the same time could allow others to listen to my troubles without the fear of being much criticized.

I felt a strong need to network and have feedback but also wanted to push up my ego. I was in my Facebook comfort zone and was nervous about opening up my life to people who were more objective than I (here). All that i basically internal considering, right? I was also identifying with feelings of insufficiency and pride.

I am shocked at how inconsistent my own perception of the apparent "good samaritan works" really was. I could say much more but in layman's terms I was motivated by self-centeredness and fear.

 

[mcb]

You might have had other reasons for creating the FaceBook page as well. If you keep getting 'invitation' messages to create a page from your friends, one way to stop that is to create a page! It is also useful to have one in order to learn about social media. Once you set it up and start connecting with other people, you start to learn what sort of FB behaviors make sense and which ones don't. The person who constantly babbles random thoughts on their wall quickly gets unsubscribed or de-friended. You have to think about the quality and quantity of your posts.

This is not to say that self-importance wasn't a factor for you. But it has good uses too, especially as part of a network, and if you don't create the page and gain experience with the tool, nobody benefits.

 

[anart]

You might have had other reasons for creating the FaceBook page as well. If you keep getting 'invitation' messages to create a page from your friends, one way to stop that is to create a page! It is also useful to have one in order to learn about social media. Once you set it up and start connecting with other people, you start to learn what sort of FB behaviors make sense and which ones don't. The person who constantly babbles random thoughts on their wall quickly gets unsubscribed or de-friended. You have to think about the quality and quantity of your posts.

This is not to say that self-importance wasn't a factor for you. But it has good uses too, especially as part of a network, and if you don't create the page and gain experience with the tool, nobody benefits.

Megan, I think you might be missing the point. It's not that he created a fb page - it's that he tried to create his own 4th Way group using facebook due to the forum not suiting the needs of his false personality. There is a very large difference.

 

[abeofarrell]

Anart is right. I was about to say the same thing. But as I continue to look at this I see a mechanicalness about it I didn't consider. A Influences disguised as B lulling me into a comfort zone where I can not only sleep but maybe also become a false teacher leading others astray. It all very much HAPPENED with little will or volition. When I think about how conveniently everything falls into place I shudder with revulsion at the predator mind. Nothing good can be done without extreme effort. When I really concentrate on that period though I do see moments if hesitation, warning signs my personality stomped out.

I never realized how susceptible to influence I was. Everyone's concerns were very valid.