Animal Cruelty

[knowledge_of_self]

SO sick!

It makes me so sad and angry that our society is so messed up that we have to pass such laws to prevent these horrific acts.

Bring on the comets indeed!

 

[RedFox]

Some days you just want to say "Bring on the comets!"

So true.

ditto

Yup, I know what you mean.
I couldn't even dream up this stuff in my worst nightmares. :O The human race doesn't have a particularly good record when it comes to 2D creatures, but it seems that the last few years (maybe the last 20-40 years?) that things have got particularly sick and twisted towards them.....and everyone else.
Heck I remember my horror and disgust at discovering just the concept of snuff films years ago.....

No living creature deserves this!

However it happens this planet really does need cleansing. Its soul crushing to behold.....

 

[Guardian]

Well, just for the record, no video was posted! I wouldn't even look at still excerpts - the link posted was to an article that describes the legislation and the videos themselves, which is horrific enough.

AGREED and APPRECIATED Anart!! I've watched way too many CV's frame by frame trying to figure out where they were made and by whom. The images never leave your mind, even when you focus on the backgrounds and try to skip the act.

Most are produced in countries that don't have adequate, if any, animal cruelty laws. Cutting out their US market is just a drop in the bucket...but it's better than nothing since the US is one of the largest markets for CV's

I NEVER thought I'd be seeing myself write these words...but if you get a spare minute, please pat and praise the nasty Republican for pushing this legislation.

Richard Burr
151 Patton Avenue, Suite 204
Asheville, NC 28801
Phone: (828) 350-2437

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

First thought I had is that if someone did a crush video of those people, maybe they'd see what is wrong with this, but then it occurred to me that no they won't. There is no way to truly make them understand the pain they are inflicting, they really are robots. If people think the Terminator is a future scenario, they only need to look around.

Also, I'm confused - why aren't existing animal cruelty laws applicable to these things? Isn't this blatant animal cruelty? I don't understand the need of any additional laws specifically for "crush videos". Also, how would they even enforce this? If you can't identify who is responsible by the video, how can they catch and stop them? On the other hand, there are things they can do if they really wanted to stop it. Mafias, drug cartels, child porn rings, human slavery, illegal organ trades, etc wouldn't exist if there was any real "crackdown" on such things. But as we well know, the politicians and the military industrial complex are creating and using such things, they are fully involved and integrated into this. All this stuff hasn't gone anywhere for only that reason - nobody in power truly wants it gone, they are the ones who create it, use it, and benefit from such depravity.

But if they really want to target these videos, I'd say they need to target the distribution channels - make it illegal to distribute or host such content, that might curb the incentive of making them? Also, you can trace just about anything that's posted online - someone had to upload it, and that IP is always logged and the ISP can tell you who it was, if you're the police. Also, if they really wanted to catch these people, the best way is to infiltrate. Set up a dummy distribution network/chain while keeping tabs on all the people who are producing and submitting this stuff. Then once you have a bunch, bust them all. And then rinse and repeat.

 

[Guardian]

Also, I'm confused - why aren't existing animal cruelty laws applicable to these things?

It's currently illegal to do these horrible things to animals in the US BUT it is NOT currently illegal to distribute and possess crush porn in the US. Thus far, the only video's, mags, etc. which are illegal in the US are child porn.

Isn't this blatant animal cruelty?

Yes

I don't understand the need of any additional laws specifically for "crush videos".

While it is illegal to commit these acts of cruelty in the US, it's not yet illegal to buy the videos, pics, etc. of these acts being committed (presumable in another country) This new legislation is aimed at the market, not the perpetrators...who are for the most part, out of our reach.

Also, how would they even enforce this?

US Customs (and the USPS) would seize the CV "products" as they enter the states when possible. Regional and local law enforcement agencies would be empowered to seize CV "products" that get past Customs and arrest sellers anywhere in the United States.

If you can't identify who is responsible by the video, how can they catch and stop them?

Most often, you can't ...which is why this law is aimed at sales and distribution.

I'd say they need to target the distribution channels - make it illegal to distribute or host such content, that might curb the incentive of making them?

Yup ...that's exactly what the proposed legislation is for.

Also, you can trace just about anything that's posted online - someone had to upload it, and that IP is always logged and the ISP can tell you who it was, if you're the police.

This is a common myth. The truth is that content can easily be uploaded to the Internet completely anonymously if a person knows what s/he is doing. Worthy proxy servers simply do not keep logs...nothing to give the cops if they come knocking.

What you can follow is the MONEY...but to do that (legally) the product has to be illegal. It's not... YET.

Also, if they really wanted to catch these people,

The officials in countries where CV's are created don't want to "catch them," they want to be bribed...and they are.

Obviously, these people have no hearts...they will only stop making CV's when making CV's is no longer profitable.

the best way is to infiltrate.

Not a bad idea...are you volunteering, and do you speak Chinese? ;)

 

[Guardian]

The videos mostly depict women -- with their faces unseen -- stomping helpless animals such as rabbits to death with spiked-heel shoes or with their bare feet. The videos apparently satisfy a sexual fetish for those who produce and watch them, said animal rights activists who supported the new bill.

The perversion and depravity involved in such a video is mind-boggling to anyone with an ounce of empathy for living creatures. It makes me sick to my stomach to know that there are people who produce and enjoy such cruelty. Positively sickening...to say the least.

I was unaware that this sort of thing was made as well. I'm speechless.

Who in the world could even think up such a thing!

Well I'm feeling like an idiot right about now... I should have posted this link months ago. I'm sorry ...sometimes it's hard to keep track of who's involved in what.

http://www.stopcrush.org/

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

It's currently illegal to do these horrible things to animals in the US BUT it is NOT currently illegal to distribute and possess crush porn in the US. Thus far, the only video's, mags, etc. which are illegal in the US are child porn.

Ah, now I get it, thanks.

Also, you can trace just about anything that's posted online - someone had to upload it, and that IP is always logged and the ISP can tell you who it was, if you're the police.

This is a common myth. The truth is that content can easily be uploaded to the Internet completely anonymously if a person knows what s/he is doing. Worthy proxy servers simply do not keep logs...nothing to give the cops if they come knocking.

What you can follow is the MONEY...but to do that (legally) the product has to be illegal. It's not... YET.

Good point, although it's not a myth if the person doesn't know how to use proxies, or doesn't bother, or maybe simply forgets. I'm betting that the psychopaths in question will sometimes slip up for one of those 3 reasons - after all, psychopaths aren't known for being terribly intelligent or having too much foresight or long-term thinking. Their absolute certainty in getting away with it and arrogance makes them not take all the precautions they otherwise would. That whole wishful thinking thing, you know..

The officials in countries where CV's are created don't want to "catch them," they want to be bribed...and they are.

US officials like bribes too! But yeah I mean you can't stop someone from filming something in the privacy of their own home, you only find out about this stuff once they try spreading it around. Killing the money part of it will definitely stop some of them, but not the ones who do it for pure sadistic pleasure - those would require another approach, which is where the infiltration thing may work.

Not a bad idea...are you volunteering, and do you speak Chinese? ;)

I was thinking every country would use its own local law enforcement to do their own infiltration, they just need to agree on a couple things first - like what should or shouldn't be "obviously illegal". But the fact that any country even exists where creating and distributing such things is legal is.. well it's not even shocking, I guess it's just par for the course on this planet.

So when you combine the fact that the PTB benefit from such things and have little incentive to change them, and the totally different laws about it, there is very little that can be done - stop it in one country and the business will pick up in another that still doesn't have the same law on the books, etc. There's no conventional way out, the system is rigged. So I guess that really does leave only one option. Bring on the comets! :)

 

[Guardian]

Good point, although it's not a myth if the person doesn't know how to use proxies, or doesn't bother, or maybe simply forgets. I'm betting that the psychopaths in question will sometimes slip up for one of those 3 reasons - after all, psychopaths aren't known for being terribly intelligent or having too much foresight or long-term thinking. Their absolute certainty in getting away with it and arrogance makes them not take all the precautions they otherwise would. That whole wishful thinking thing, you know..

Most of these pervs are professional porn makers/distributors, CV's are not the only fetish they film. ...and they don't slip up very often. The ONLY way I can see to curtail (it will never stop) crush is to make it cost more to distribute than it earns.

US officials like bribes too!

Very true... the ACLU is supporting Crush Vids as "Free Speech" and they have quite a few "Liberal" politicians behind them. Exact same arguments being used now as were invoked when the first anti child porn legislation was introduced.

I was thinking every country would use its own local law enforcement to do their own infiltration,

Ohhhh, you were counting on law enforcement actually doing something without massive public pressure?

 

[Seamus]

The videos mostly depict women -- with their faces unseen -- stomping helpless animals such as rabbits to death with spiked-heel shoes or with their bare feet. The videos apparently satisfy a sexual fetish for those who produce and watch them, said animal rights activists who supported the new bill.

The perversion and depravity involved in such a video is mind-boggling to anyone with an ounce of empathy for living creatures. It makes me sick to my stomach to know that there are people who produce and enjoy such cruelty. Positively sickening...to say the least.

I was unaware that this sort of thing was made as well. I'm speechless.

Who in the world could even think up such a thing!

Well I'm feeling like an idiot right about now... I should have posted this link months ago. I'm sorry ...sometimes it's hard to keep track of who's involved in what.

http://www.stopcrush.org/

Please don't feel like an idiot! As far as I can tell Guardian, you seem to be doing a great deal to right the wrongs you see in this world, and that's a real inspiration for me. I spend too much time "feeling bad" about awful things like this, but not really doing anything about it.

Thank you for the link. I couldn't find any information on that site about the actual legislation, so I looked it up. Here is a summary from www.govtrack.us:

7/21/2010--Passed House amended. Prevention of Interstate Commerce in Animal Crush Videos Act of 2010 - Amends the federal criminal code to revise provisions prohibiting knowingly creating, selling, or possessing a depiction of animal cruelty to prohibit knowingly and for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain selling or distributing an animal crush video in interstate or foreign commerce. States that such prohibition does not prohibit the sale or distribution of any visual depiction of hunting, trapping, fishing, or customary and normal veterinary or agricultural husbandry practices. Defines "animal crush video" as any obscene photograph, motion-picture film, video recording, or electronic image that depicts actual conduct in which one or more living animals is intentionally crushed, burned, drowned, suffocated, or impaled in a manner that would violate a criminal prohibition on cruelty to animals in the federal or state jurisdiction in which the depiction is created, sold, distributed, or offered for sale or distribution. Provides for compliance of the budgetary effects of this Act with the Statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act of 2010.

As far as I can tell from the main page tracking this bill, it passed the house in June, recently passed the Senate, and has now come back to the house. Is this correct?

I am planning to call my one state Rep, and my two state Senators to voice my support for this bill. Does it make sense to call them right away, or closer to when the bill is going to come up for a vote again? Or should I call them now to encourage them to pass it quickly and then call again when its coming up for a vote? There is a post on stopcrush.org asking people to contact Congressman Bobby C. Scott. Who else can I call or write to?

Thanks for bringing this up, although I feel physically ill when I read the descriptions on the stopcrush.org website, I would rather know about it and try to do something to stop it than have something like this continue.

 

[realitybugll]

this reminds me... My 6 year old neighbor just brought home large sized hamster which he and his mom "adopted" from pet co. knowing the mom and the boy I automatically felt ill at ease when he showed it to me in the small glass cage. the was saying "look at my hamster" and he was grinning, and his mom was smiling in the background, and I had to fake a smile. I felt acute empathy/sadness and thought " I have to save it" but of course that is unrealistic and there are millions more suffering animals. I consciously dissociated, just let it be, and I was able to calm down. he named the hamster "squishy" I thought this was a funny name...well in light of this thread...not so funny now...

I'm giving it (he/she) two weeks to live. before it either dies or escapes. I may be wrong. I don't trust him around my bunnies.

the reason I bring this up is because while knowing these crush videos are horrible, I couldn't get a sadness / disgusted reaction out of myself. I realized a week ago was the last time i had a reaction over this topic. so it is possible for me. maybe I just can't picture it very well and would have to see it happening to get a reaction. I thought this was strange because everyone else seems to have some sort of emotional reaction to this. One time--reading a pig cruelty article, I think linked here somewhere--I consciously worked myself up to tears with a bit of effort and "thinking" just so I knew I could.

 

[Guardian]

Please don't feel like an idiot! As far as I can tell Guardian, you seem to be doing a great deal to right the wrongs you see in this world, and that's a real inspiration for me. I spend too much time "feeling bad" about awful things like this, but not really doing anything about it.

I think we all feel bad about horrible things like this hon...doing something, even little things like making phone calls, websites, etc. is the only thing that makes me feel better. It's very STS in a way..if I don't do something, I feel like crap on a cracker.

As far as I can tell from the main page tracking this bill, it passed the house in June, recently passed the Senate, and has now come back to the house. Is this correct?

Close..it's now passed both the House and the Senate (day before yesterday) so now it goes back into committee where selected members of both the House and the Senate will argue over who picked the best wording. It really doesn't matter whose version they pick at this point, either will do...they just have to run their yaps some more to look important, get a bit more press, etc.

I am planning to call my one state Rep, and my two state Senators to voice my support for this bill. Does it make sense to call them right away, or closer to when the bill is going to come up for a vote again? Or should I call them now to encourage them to pass it quickly and then call again when its coming up for a vote? There is a post on stopcrush.org asking people to contact Congressman Bobby C. Scott. Who else can I call or write to?

At this point it would be helpful for folks in the US to call their specific Representatives and Senators and ask them to push it through committee as fast as possible. The Senate bill passed wayyyyyy easier than anyone thought it would. It was starting to look like a few political pervs were going to bring up the "Free Speech" issue, right up until some stills from actual crush videos with "Senator (insert name here) says this as "Free Speech" So what's the message?" started circulating anonymously. Evidently they changed their minds, and the bill sailed through

Lots of animal rights activists thought this was a done deal 10 YEARS ago...then the thrice damned Supreme Court weighed in and we had to start all over. As you can see, neither version is "overly broad" ...both are in fact specific enough to make the average person want to hurl. This new law (either version) uses the same mechanisms as anti child porn laws, which have been upheld by the "High Court"

That's such a perfect name for them 'cause when you read some of their decisions, you know they had to be high on something.

 

[Guardian]

I'm giving it (he/she) two weeks to live. before it either dies or escapes. I may be wrong. I don't trust him around my bunnies.

the reason I bring this up is because while knowing these crush videos are horrible, I couldn't get a sadness / disgusted reaction out of myself. I realized a week ago was the last time i had a reaction over this topic. so it is possible for me. maybe I just can't picture it very well and would have to see it happening to get a reaction. I thought this was strange because everyone else seems to have some sort of emotional reaction to this. One time--reading a pig cruelty article, I think linked here somewhere--I consciously worked myself up to tears with a bit of effort and "thinking" just so I knew I could.

You have pet bunnies, but the thought of small animals being slowly crushed to death by whores in high heels doesn't bother you?

This seems to be one of those RARE occasions where I'm at a loss for words.

 

[Guardian]

Today the US, tomorrow the world ...beware the evil monkey in the closet!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=478357&id=123901460968753

 

[Turgon]

:O That's friggin' messed up! Doing that to animals for fun!? I go out of my way to make sure I don't hit small animals and rabbits when driving, but if I saw one of those people I might accidentally step on the pedal.

the reason I bring this up is because while knowing these crush videos are horrible, I couldn't get a sadness / disgusted reaction out of myself. I realized a week ago was the last time i had a reaction over this topic. so it is possible for me. maybe I just can't picture it very well and would have to see it happening to get a reaction. I thought this was strange because everyone else seems to have some sort of emotional reaction to this. One time--reading a pig cruelty article, I think linked here somewhere--I consciously worked myself up to tears with a bit of effort and "thinking" just so I knew I could.

Sometimes you have to see it for yourself to really feel why there's anger to events like this. I knew a guy as a teen who would use sticks to beat dead animals for kicks. Do all sorts of things to them. I remember it clearly and an incredible urge to pick up a rock and hit him in the head with it. I didn't, obviously.

But if you ever watch the documentary Earthlings, they show clips of factory farm and circus workers beating animals unnecessarily. You'd be hard pressed not to at least once want to stick your hand through the screen and grab their necks. It really is evil because its done out of sick pleasure.

 

[Turgon]

On top of that, the guy that used to do that to the dead animals ended up being part of a gang of people that went to my school and beat another teen in the park to death. He ended up selling the rest of the gang up the river for immunity and testified against them so he could get off scott free. I saw media clips of him at the trial with a big smirk on his face knowing he wasn't going to prison.

He really is a psychopath.