Another hole in the swiss cheese we call "public education" in America...

[ScarletBegonias]

I have been attempting to teach a student who has ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) and he walked out of my class at the beginning of the period three days in a row and then ditched my class today. (He was on campus, but chose not to go.) I have never observed this behavior consistently in a student, but he just gets mad over nothing as if he were throwing a tantrum. I have made attempts to speak with him outside of my class a couple times, just to see if maybe we could work on it and there was some underlying issue. But the only answer I got out of him as to why he was behaving that way was, "jail is my life."

Well, I found out yesterday that he has been diagnosed with ODD, a disorder I had not even heard of before! I also found out that he has had two sexual harassment reports against him (though nothing happened) and that the other school he was at let him stay home the last two weeks of school (an early summer break!) just to avoid a conflict. Apparently he also hit his mother at some point, but this cannot be confirmed and is only hearsay.

It is extremely disturbing to know that the fact that this student has the ODD diagnosis means that the law protects him if his actions were a result of his disability. Here are the characteristics of someone with ODD:

_http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/oppositional-defiant-disorder/DS00630/DSECTION=symptoms

The following are behaviors associated with ODD:

Negativity
Defiance
Disobedience
Hostility directed toward authority figures

These behaviors might cause your child to regularly and consistently show these signs and symptoms:

Temper tantrums
Argumentativeness with adults
Refusal to comply with adult requests or rules
Deliberate annoyance of other people
Blaming others for mistakes or misbehavior
Acting touchy and easily annoyed
Anger and resentment
Spiteful or vindictive behavior
Aggressiveness toward peers
Difficulty maintaining friendships
Academic problems

I told the woman at my school who I was speaking with regarding him that I was so thankful we didn't diagnose psychopathy at our school! She was in total agreement and we both think this is a huge crack in the system...I'm glad I just let this tall and large male teenage "boy" just bolt out of my room every time. There's no stopping that one with the way that our school system is set up!

 

[hjackson]

He may not be interested in learning.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

He may not be interested in learning.

I agree. ;) Unfortunately our system isn't set up to teach him what his life will be like if he continues to choose not to learn from this behavior. Our public educational system (here in America) is set up to condone his anti-social behavior and the administrators at his old school even rewarded it by giving him a two week vacation at the end of the school year.

These "discipline" techniques only serve to protect the educational institutions themselves. I understand the need to protect our schools from lawsuits, etc, but protecting a student because he acts in these ways only serves to hinder this student's learning experience, (even if it is learning how the police will act when he is on the streets). Unfortunately the law is set up this way and it is in our best interest to follow the law...

 

[TOTEM36]

He may not be interested in learning.

I agree. ;) Unfortunately our system isn't set up to teach him what his life will be like if he continues to choose not to learn from this behavior. Our public educational system (here in America) is set up to condone his anti-social behavior and the administrators at his old school even rewarded it by giving him a two week vacation at the end of the school year.

These "discipline" techniques only serve to protect the educational institutions themselves. I understand the need to protect our schools from lawsuits, etc, but protecting a student because he acts in these ways only serves to hinder this student's learning experience, (even if it is learning how the police will act when he is on the streets). Unfortunately the law is set up this way and it is in our best interest to follow the law...

Hi Scarlet,

I think you are sensing the needs of this child with ODD, and are frustrated that the schools system cannot help him out. It is clear that the school system you are working with is unable to do anything more for the ODD student which makes you upset. I agree that the school systems let the students off because they are inadequate in meeting the individual needs.

I really relate to your story.

When i was training under another teachers guidance, to be a teacher myself. We had a child (young) in the class who would have violent outbursts and never able to control himself.

Everyday like a well-oiled routine, the teacher would allow him to sit at his desk like everyone else, then immediately after he started shouting/punching, his teacher would say, 'ok Jake, go to your spot please'. And he would go and sit on the mat at the back of the class, then, moved outside the classroom after another 10 minutes of disruptions.

When confronted, the teacher explained to me that the kid has a schizophrenic mother and the kid has major emotional problems that they dont have the resources for. He said the classroom is really just day-care for the child and we cant do anything about his problems.

Scarlett, you seem like a very caring teacher, but, teachers are not really mental health workers and you can only do what you can within the limits. I can tell you already know that, its good you care.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

Scarlett, you seem like a very caring teacher, but, teachers are not really mental health workers and you can only do what you can within the limits.

So true, hallowed, but I think being a teacher is a job that requires me to act as a mental health worker in certain situations regardless of my training or ability to do so. With that being said, I must recognize that according to the standards of education at my school this person deserves, on average, a maximum of two minutes of my time each day.

If he chooses to return to my room I will use it as an opportunity to speak with him briefly outside. I plan to sincerely and delicately question him about why he distrusts authority figures so much. Then I plan to ask him why he thinks jail, a place where he will be required to submit completely to authority figures, would be a place he has decided is the place for him. These are two questions that I would like him to answer for me and then after that it's either work on art time or back to the school psychologist for him...

 

[1melissa3]

Scarlett... before you are too hard on the boy, what do you know about him? His past? His home? As his teacher you are put in the position that if you have reasonable concerns, which from your post you do, then you should find these things out to better understand him. Understood, you have a full class and perhaps should discuss it with the school counselor and see if something could be found out as to what is provoking him. He may very well be telling you to do something.

When I was a sunday school teacher for a short period of time it was something of an eye opener... to say the least. Some families do not regard authoritative figures as the unit in which they should represent to their children/youth. Some families sadly take pride in teaching their children to be 'the boss' and rebellious toward the powers that be because supposedly the powers that be 'really don't care for them'. Perhaps, Scarlett, you should ask the boy what he thinks of you, of other staff members at the school and find out if there is a medium that could be reached in his perception of you, the staff, and what is expected of him. He may have no idea.

Perhaps the issue isn't about how delicate you are or are not in asking him, but whether you can connect with him effectively to better help him. It may require you to be direct and yet sincere.

 

[anart]

Scarlett... before you are too hard on the boy, what do you know about him? His past? His home? As his teacher you are put in the position that if you have reasonable concerns, which from your post you do, then you should find these things out to better understand him. Understood, you have a full class and perhaps should discuss it with the school counselor and see if something could be found out as to what is provoking him. He may very well be telling you to do something.

When I was a sunday school teacher for a short period of time it was something of an eye opener... to say the least. Some families do not regard authoritative figures as the unit in which they should represent to their children/youth. Some families sadly take pride in teaching their children to be 'the boss' and rebellious toward the powers that be because supposedly the powers that be 'really don't care for them'. Perhaps, Scarlett, you should ask the boy what he thinks of you, of other staff members at the school and find out if there is a medium that could be reached in his perception of you, the staff, and what is expected of him. He may have no idea.

Perhaps the issue isn't about how delicate you are or are not in asking him, but whether you can connect with him effectively to better help him. It may require you to be direct and yet sincere.

Considering that Scarlet has already explained school policy in this situation, and she is an employee of the school, I don't think your advice necessarily applies. Putting the onus on Scarlet to heal a young man with no interest in being healed is not only unrealistic, it's rather insensitive to Scarlet.

 

[1melissa3]

Not unlike your badgering of a newbie?

 

[anart]

Not unlike your badgering of a newbie?

Can you please point out where I've badgered you? Several people here have simply asked for clarification on several of your posts due to your tendency to write in a really obscure fashion, and I've pointed out links to you that should help you understand more about this forum - to help you. Then, when you offer advise that runs contrary to a situation that another forum member is dealing with, I point that out - to help you. This is how this forum works. If that is unsatisfactory to you, that's unfortunate since no offense was intended.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

Perhaps, Scarlett, you should ask the boy what he thinks of you, of other staff members at the school and find out if there is a medium that could be reached in his perception of you, the staff, and what is expected of him.

Hello 1melissa3, I think this is a good question, thanks! I have wondered what he thinks of me, but think that asking him would only get a prompted response. Observing his actions towards me is what really tells me, I think. Well, he and I have a decent relationship now, which is odd, but good. I think there might be hope for this one, but it's really too early to tell...

Not unlike your badgering of a newbie?

Can you please point out where I've badgered you? Several people here have simply asked for clarification on several of your posts due to your tendency to write in a really obscure fashion, and I've pointed out links to you that should help you understand more about this forum - to help you. Then, when you offer advise that runs contrary to a situation that another forum member is dealing with, I point that out - to help you. This is how this forum works. If that is unsatisfactory to you, that's unfortunate since no offense was intended.

Also, I think it's important to really think about what anart wrote here that I put in bold. Sometimes its taken me days to digest just one of the sentences shes written about me, but it's all been good food for thought. I know she's not just sitting around having a jolly old time writing these posts out for us. She works very hard.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

I think this thread could get really long considering the swiss cheese got moldy years ago, has since disintegrated and only dust remains. So it goes...

This year the school I work for lowered the already low minimum GPA requirement to play football from 2.0 to 1.8. This means that the students can now fail some of their classes, but they will still be able to play on the team! My school has prioritized winning football games over our students' success in earning high school diplomas and that is a disgrace.

 

[anart]

I think this thread could get really long considering the swiss cheese got moldy years ago, has since disintegrated and only dust remains. So it goes...

This year the school I work for lowered the already low minimum GPA requirement to play football from 2.0 to 1.8. This means that the students can now fail some of their classes, but they will still be able to play on the team! My school has prioritized winning football games over our students' success in earning high school diplomas and that is a disgrace.

That is scary. Idiocracy, here we come.

 

[dannybananny]

My school has prioritized winning football games over our students' success in earning high school diplomas and that is a disgrace.

Maybe because it brings money and sponsors? in the end they learn little about the real world so it isn't that they lose much, only chance for better social position, if there's gone be one anymore.

I think there might be hope for this one, but it's really too early to tell...

What kind of hope in spiritual sense there can be for him and majority of people, especially in this times?

 

[ScarletBegonias]

My school has prioritized winning football games over our students' success in earning high school diplomas and that is a disgrace.

Maybe because it brings money and sponsors? in the end they learn little about the real world so it isn't that they lose much, only chance for better social position, if there's gone be one anymore.

Hey dannybananny, thanks for your thoughts here. I think this is unfortunately another example of how we (the public school system) are more concerned with making ourselves look good than we are with doing what is really best for the students. I do think that playing on a sports team could help with socialization, but I don't think this is the reason the school made this decision.

This reminds me of a joke I told one of my classes once. I remember telling the class that I recognized public education taught 90% socialization and 10% other, but gosh darn it my students were gonna get 1% of art education mixed into that 10% other!" :P

I think there might be hope for this one, but it's really too early to tell...

What kind of hope in spiritual sense there can be for him and majority of people, especially in this times?

I meant hope in the educational sense, like maybe he can learn. :) And I think there is hope for us to grow if we are willing and able to learn. Sometimes I think it's the only hope we have...

 

[dannybananny]

I meant hope in the educational sense, like maybe he can learn. :) And I think there is hope for us to grow if we are willing and able to learn. Sometimes I think it's the only hope we have...

Thanks for clarification, but I think hope is not enough.