another perspective

[Jono]

Hello

I'd like to get another perspective on my life situation at the moment so if anyone has the time to have a read I'd very much appreciate it.

I rationalized away coming and posting on here about my life hundreds of times but I'm sick of going around in circles. While my problems are nothing compared to the problems most of the world are facing I still think I and maybe others can learn from it.

I'm in my second year of University now and it's been a constant battle with awakening myself / developing my essence and fitting into the student lifestyle and my relationship with a girl I met in the first few weeks of moving to University. However over the last year I have gained a lot more will power and can choose to stick to the diet fully and eliminate all (harmful) drugs with ease.

This is where it gets a little difficult for me to talk as I only ever usually get glimpses of another persons perspective when I'm taking to a friend who is also part of the forum (and I'm very grateful for the in sites he provides me with as they're always honest and non-suggestive :)).

My problem seems to be the anxiety and pain? I get from the distrust I have. She's a very open girl and likes to drink and party with her friends (which in turn leads me to see her getting close to other males), however I'm sure she isn't the cheating type but she is even aware of some of her dishonesty towards the subject if we discuss things the next day. I hate to sound and even worse to feel possessive, this coupled with the anxiousness from seeing her load up her bag with two bottles of wine while mixing with a load of single students just isn't something I want to deal with. I often think we'd do great together as friends but I don't know if that would be possible.

Kindest Regards

Immersion

 

[Beau]

I think the best thing for you to do is to communicate your concerns to her. Tell her how her going out drinking and flirting with other guys makes you feel. You are both in college so it's not entirely unexpected behavior but if she cares about you she will listen to your concerns and modify her actions. On the other hand she could be upfront and say that she wants to continue doing what she is doing, at which point you can decide if you want to continue to be in a relationship with her or choose to just be friends.

 

[Renaissance]

Sounds like you've done some helpful things for yourself in regards to your physical health, and that can be a challenge in a college environment.

Just curious, do you both consider yourselves to be in a committed relationship to one another? Are things clear in that respect?

 

[SethianSeth]

Hey Immersion,

Boy oh boy, did I go through something similar during my college experience. It think it is rather common, really, but it certainly led to a lot of self-inflicted pain and personal sabotage. It was a huge learning experience, and for me, the lesson came down to exactly what Heimdallr said above: honesty. A 3 year relationship with a girl I was certain I would marry ended in her cheating on me. She wasn't "the cheating type" and nor was I. However, my dishonesty first and foremost with myself about my feelings of possessiveness and insecurity (low sense of personal value), led to my dishonesty with HER about the very same things. Even when I thought I was telling the truth.

What happened was I tried to deny my feelings of insecurity/possessiveness because I didn't want to identify with them (saw them rationally as silly and ill-founded), would therefore not discuss them openly with her, and they repeatedly manifested themselves non-verbally. This turned into quite a vampiric dynamic in which I was repeatedly projecting the things I was unable or unwilling to address in my inner landscape onto her, and she responded to those cues by eventually fulfilling what I saw in her. This is such a nasty dynamic, and as far as I can see it will always re-inforce and play out in the same way UNLESS brutal honesty is employed. First with yourself. Journal it out over the course of a few days, at times when you aren't feeling threatened. Don't make it about her, but about you: reasons why these feelings surface, what triggers them, and how they influence your thoughts/actions, as if from a 3rd party perspective. Even disorganized free-form journaling helps, but it can get into a negative rumination if you aren't doing it at a time when you are calm and level headed. If nothing else comes of it, you'll get closer to articulating what you need in a relationship and what is superfluous. Then, talk to her frankly about what you've found, even the questions that you can't answer right away. She will very likely appreciate the honesty and have something unique to offer that might enhance your perspective.

So, maybe you aren't compatible as a couple. Maybe you'll be better as friends. But, either route will be founded best on honesty. It is very very difficult, especially in the college environment, because we see how inept we really are when we make genuine efforts by being honest with ourselves about who we are based on what we DO as opposed to who we THINK we are, or FEEL is right.

A book I really wish I would have had during that time is called Unholy Hungers: discovering the psychic vampire in ourselves and others by Barbara Hoyt. It is incredible!

Good luck, Immersion.

 

[Mal7]

I often think we'd do great together as friends but I don't know if that would be possible.

Anything is possible.

Whether you stay together or not, or whether you end up being friends or not:

"Everything is a lesson."

 

[Maya]

My problem seems to be the anxiety and pain? I get from the distrust I have. She's a very open girl and likes to drink and party with her friends (which in turn leads me to see her getting close to other males), however I'm sure she isn't the cheating type but she is even aware of some of her dishonesty towards the subject if we discuss things the next day. I hate to sound and even worse to feel possessive, this coupled with the anxiousness from seeing her load up her bag with two bottles of wine while mixing with a load of single students just isn't something I want to deal with. I often think we'd do great together as friends but I don't know if that would be possible.

I don't really see why you even have to deal with this sort of things/ feelings ?
It's not what you need right now..you're only loosing your precious time and energy with relationship (person) like that IMHO.
In a perspective of Work she has 'good' influence on you - if you are able to observe yourself all the time and remember who you are NOT
in this relationship (not the one who is in the anxiety & pain) ... but you are still young, I think you should stick to Work and college, diet and other more important stuff...
And if she doesn't realize her behaviour, she really is not worth of your eforts of any kind...

 

[Jono]

I think the best thing for you to do is to communicate your concerns to her. Tell her how her going out drinking and flirting with other guys makes you feel. You are both in college so it's not entirely unexpected behavior but if she cares about you she will listen to your concerns and modify her actions. On the other hand she could be upfront and say that she wants to continue doing what she is doing, at which point you can decide if you want to continue to be in a relationship with her or choose to just be friends.

I've realized the only reason I've EVER gone out with her and her friends drinking was to simply observe her, and from what I've observed she seems like a hollow robot with little self control, so this scene just plays in my mind at the times when she's out and I'm feeling weak. However it's not so much the flirting that bothers me, (as it may even be me just imagining things) but watching her kill off her essence.

I went to Tenerife with my friend recently and part of the time overlapped when she was also there on a field trip. I bumped into her while she was carrying a large bag of alcohol and she told me she only had one bottle of wine (but since the bag was obviously translucent this was a confusing lie). I spoke to her but it really did feel like I was talking to a robot and she seemed to be totally and completely influenced by the usual students on her trip, I couldn't see the girl I feel in love with at all. (I mention this because she's read a few waves and some of the books recommended and at times she is a really considerate and self controlled girl).

I don't want to stop her from doing what she wants to do or manipulate her in any way. I simply don't want to feel what I'm feeling.

I think it is time I made my point and this time if I'm trodden all over again I STICK to my side of the promise by getting out. (Easier said than done -.-)

 

[Jono]

Sounds like you've done some helpful things for yourself in regards to your physical health, and that can be a challenge in a college environment.

Just curious, do you both consider yourselves to be in a committed relationship to one another? Are things clear in that respect?

Yes, very clear. We have a house together and when there are no distractions like drinking we have a wonderful time learning and sharing what we've learnt, practicing karezza, baking paleo treats (vegetarian, as she doesn't like meat :() and going on adventures around the area.

 

[Jono]

Hey Immersion,

Boy oh boy, did I go through something similar during my college experience. It think it is rather common, really, but it certainly led to a lot of self-inflicted pain and personal sabotage. It was a huge learning experience, and for me, the lesson came down to exactly what Heimdallr said above: honesty. A 3 year relationship with a girl I was certain I would marry ended in her cheating on me. She wasn't "the cheating type" and nor was I. However, my dishonesty first and foremost with myself about my feelings of possessiveness and insecurity (low sense of personal value), led to my dishonesty with HER about the very same things. Even when I thought I was telling the truth.

What happened was I tried to deny my feelings of insecurity/possessiveness because I didn't want to identify with them (saw them rationally as silly and ill-founded), would therefore not discuss them openly with her, and they repeatedly manifested themselves non-verbally. This turned into quite a vampiric dynamic in which I was repeatedly projecting the things I was unable or unwilling to address in my inner landscape onto her, and she responded to those cues by eventually fulfilling what I saw in her. This is such a nasty dynamic, and as far as I can see it will always re-inforce and play out in the same way UNLESS brutal honesty is employed. First with yourself. Journal it out over the course of a few days, at times when you aren't feeling threatened. Don't make it about her, but about you: reasons why these feelings surface, what triggers them, and how they influence your thoughts/actions, as if from a 3rd party perspective. Even disorganized free-form journaling helps, but it can get into a negative rumination if you aren't doing it at a time when you are calm and level headed. If nothing else comes of it, you'll get closer to articulating what you need in a relationship and what is superfluous. Then, talk to her frankly about what you've found, even the questions that you can't answer right away. She will very likely appreciate the honesty and have something unique to offer that might enhance your perspective.

So, maybe you aren't compatible as a couple. Maybe you'll be better as friends. But, either route will be founded best on honesty. It is very very difficult, especially in the college environment, because we see how inept we really are when we make genuine efforts by being honest with ourselves about who we are based on what we DO as opposed to who we THINK we are, or FEEL is right.

A book I really wish I would have had during that time is called Unholy Hungers: discovering the psychic vampire in ourselves and others by Barbara Hoyt. It is incredible!

Good luck, Immersion.

Jesus I don't want to go down that road. Thank you very much for sharing your experience. I've taken a lot of notes from your post and i'm definitely going to journal it over the next few days with a good old Pueblo roll :).

For some reason I didn't finish Unholy Hungers, but I'll get back into it when I'm home.

Thank you.

 

[Jono]

My problem seems to be the anxiety and pain? I get from the distrust I have. She's a very open girl and likes to drink and party with her friends (which in turn leads me to see her getting close to other males), however I'm sure she isn't the cheating type but she is even aware of some of her dishonesty towards the subject if we discuss things the next day. I hate to sound and even worse to feel possessive, this coupled with the anxiousness from seeing her load up her bag with two bottles of wine while mixing with a load of single students just isn't something I want to deal with. I often think we'd do great together as friends but I don't know if that would be possible.

I don't really see why you even have to deal with this sort of things/ feelings ?
It's not what you need right now..you're only loosing your precious time and energy with relationship (person) like that IMHO.
In a perspective of Work she has 'good' influence on you - if you are able to observe yourself all the time and remember who you are NOT
in this relationship (not the one who is in the anxiety & pain) ... but you are still young, I think you should stick to Work and college, diet and other more important stuff...
And if she doesn't realize her behaviour, she really is not worth of your eforts of any kind...

I feel that an important lesson is going to be learned for me soon if I'll only put the effort into understanding my feelings fully.
In terms of the work yes, I think this is a great opportunity for me to learn about myself if I can refuse to be consumed by my feelings and simply observe.

 

[Mal7]

I think it is time I made my point and this time if I'm trodden all over again I STICK to my side of the promise by getting out. (Easier said than done -.-)

Communicating what you are feeling and your various thoughts might be a good idea. Or it might just lead to an unpleasant argument.

I don't think I could possibly know whether it is a relationship worth holding on to or not, just from reading your posts here.

You do seem to be considering getting out of this relationship quite seriously. Maybe you are already in a position to make up your mind about whether or not you wish to do this, without that decision being conditional on making your point about something and whether or not you get trodden over again?

As for feelings of jealousy or possesiveness or anxiety about issues of trust, these ought to mostly evaporate if you were out of the relationship.

Or maybe it is a great relationship, and you are over-reacting to your friend's light-heartedness and silly-season disposition after having a few drinks.

Being single is not so bad. Being in a relationship seems to be a pretty popular choice too. Mthere are social pressures to be in a relationship? Better to be single than in a relationship with the wrong person. Relationships can be a blessing or a curse, probably mostly a curse! Relationships that start of intensely and passionately, with each person meaning the whole world to each other, can end up being a kind of dual-solipsism, which is not so good.

Just my random thoughts on the matter!

 

[Serendipity]

I hate to sound and even worse to feel possessive, this coupled with the anxiousness from seeing her load up her bag with two bottles of wine while mixing with a load of single students just isn't something I want to deal with. I often think we'd do great together as friends but I don't know if that would be possible.

IMO, what you wrote above comes around like you're quite attached/identified with your girlfriend. Also, the bolded part sounds like you avoid dealing with the situation as it is and more importantly with the feelings it creates in yourself and then, in the same time you are afraid of losing her if you stop being in relationship. To me that sounds as more evidence of attachment and that's what's causing you the feelings of anxiety that you've described above. Those same feelings are simply internal considering on your part, and from what I know one of the most important things in beginning of the Work is learning to stop internal considering and also attachment/identification.

I hate to sound and even worse to feel possessive, this coupled with the anxiousness from seeing her load up her bag with two bottles of wine while mixing with a load of single students just isn't something I want to deal with.

What you avoid dealing with, and that being the situation in your life and your feelings, is exactly what you have to be dealing with if you are sincere with your Work, because that IS the Work, as far as I know.

Fwiw. Sorry if I'm of the mark.

 

[Nienna]

My problem seems to be the anxiety and pain? I get from the distrust I have. She's a very open girl and likes to drink and party with her friends (which in turn leads me to see her getting close to other males), however I'm sure she isn't the cheating type but she is even aware of some of her dishonesty towards the subject if we discuss things the next day. I hate to sound and even worse to feel possessive, this coupled with the anxiousness from seeing her load up her bag with two bottles of wine while mixing with a load of single students just isn't something I want to deal with. I often think we'd do great together as friends but I don't know if that would be possible.

It looks to me, and I could certainly be wrong, is that you are saying, "I could love and trust her if she would only change."

If there are things about her that make you uneasy in your relationship, then maybe she isn't the girl for you. I know the wanting to change someone schtik. After 20 years of marriage to an alcoholic, I finally realized that I wasn't in love with him, but with the image of who I thought he could be if I could just get him to see how he was treating me was detrimental to our relationship. It was never going to happen, and what I also realized that if I wanted him to change, then it was not really him who I was in love with. It was my image of the man I wanted to be in love with.

And knowing that, I divorced him. He needed someone who could love him as he was/is.

Yes, as others have said, you are doing a lot of internal considering, but I think you also need to have a clear image of who you want to have a relationship with. If you ask yourself if so-and-so girl is perfect for you, and you come up with the answer that yes, if she would only change this or that, then I'd say that she is not the girl for you.

You need to know what you can tolerate and what you can't tolerate as far as what the other person does, and is, and make your decisions from there.

And remember, a lot of what we feel when we first "fall in love" is a lot of feel-good chemicals rushing around our system pushing us into a relationship with someone we hardly even know. This is harder for those who are younger because all we can think about is "being in love." It would be good to take things slowly until you have a better idea of who the person is that you feel so "in love" with. And, what our definition of love is and what it really is are, I think, two very different things.

fwiw

 

[SMM]

Hey Immersion,

Boy oh boy, did I go through something similar during my college experience. It think it is rather common, really, but it certainly led to a lot of self-inflicted pain and personal sabotage. It was a huge learning experience, and for me, the lesson came down to exactly what Heimdallr said above: honesty. A 3 year relationship with a girl I was certain I would marry ended in her cheating on me. She wasn't "the cheating type" and nor was I. However, my dishonesty first and foremost with myself about my feelings of possessiveness and insecurity (low sense of personal value), led to my dishonesty with HER about the very same things. Even when I thought I was telling the truth.

What happened was I tried to deny my feelings of insecurity/possessiveness because I didn't want to identify with them (saw them rationally as silly and ill-founded), would therefore not discuss them openly with her, and they repeatedly manifested themselves non-verbally. This turned into quite a vampiric dynamic in which I was repeatedly projecting the things I was unable or unwilling to address in my inner landscape onto her, and she responded to those cues by eventually fulfilling what I saw in her. This is such a nasty dynamic, and as far as I can see it will always re-inforce and play out in the same way UNLESS brutal honesty is employed. First with yourself. Journal it out over the course of a few days, at times when you aren't feeling threatened. Don't make it about her, but about you: reasons why these feelings surface, what triggers them, and how they influence your thoughts/actions, as if from a 3rd party perspective. Even disorganized free-form journaling helps, but it can get into a negative rumination if you aren't doing it at a time when you are calm and level headed. If nothing else comes of it, you'll get closer to articulating what you need in a relationship and what is superfluous. Then, talk to her frankly about what you've found, even the questions that you can't answer right away. She will very likely appreciate the honesty and have something unique to offer that might enhance your perspective.

So, maybe you aren't compatible as a couple. Maybe you'll be better as friends. But, either route will be founded best on honesty. It is very very difficult, especially in the college environment, because we see how inept we really are when we make genuine efforts by being honest with ourselves about who we are based on what we DO as opposed to who we THINK we are, or FEEL is right.

A book I really wish I would have had during that time is called Unholy Hungers: discovering the psychic vampire in ourselves and others by Barbara Hoyt. It is incredible!

Good luck, Immersion.

What Nienna, Serendipity & SethianSeth have mentioned are all relevant.
I'm going through a very similar scenario - in the college environment and all - but from the reverse persepective [i.e. I being the female, the other male]. The anxiety, insecurity, possessiveness - I find it, in my case, may be as a result to an attachment to a deeply ingrained ideal. To make matters worse, the ideal is usually unconscious - a pattern that repeats itself with most such relationships until one becomes aware of it, by observation, and only by then seeing what areas are impacted or afflicted by such an ideal/programming.
I'm not sure how accurate this is but I think, unless it's a psychic attack, that what you're experiencing has more to do with yourself.

This ideal could be a self-directed one - "if I did such & such, or was this way, then such & such would happen..." - or may be projected onto another - "if they would change this one thing, then this would work...", "we'd be great together". When there's an emotional investment in a certain aspect of our ties, we can get really clever with motivated reasoning to ease the uncomfortable sensations of uncertainty, unpredictability or whatever clashes with our ideals.

There is a thing sometimes called 'fantasy planning': where the mind creates scenarios that would occur in fantasy situations, or possibilites. Uncensored journalling is good at capturing some of these. Letting your feelings of anxiety, insecurity/possessiveness be there, feeling them all, even if they're consuming [it's our perception of it], without attachment [i.e. not identifying with them], without trying to deny them, observing them as they come or however you best feel going about that.

It looks to me, and I could certainly be wrong, is that you are saying, "I could love and trust her if she would only change."

If there are things about her that make you uneasy in your relationship, then maybe she isn't the girl for you. I know the wanting to change someone schtik. After 20 years of marriage to an alcoholic, I finally realized that I wasn't in love with him, but with the image of who I thought he could be if I could just get him to see how he was treating me was detrimental to our relationship. It was never going to happen, and what I also realized that if I wanted him to change, then it was not really him who I was in love with. It was my image of the man I wanted to be in love with.

And knowing that, I divorced him. He needed someone who could love him as he was/is.

Yes, as others have said, you are doing a lot of internal considering, but I think you also need to have a clear image of who you want to have a relationship with. If you ask yourself if so-and-so girl is perfect for you, and you come up with the answer that yes, if she would only change this or that, then I'd say that she is not the girl for you.

You need to know what you can tolerate and what you can't tolerate as far as what the other person does, and is, and make your decisions from there.

And remember, a lot of what we feel when we first "fall in love" is a lot of feel-good chemicals rushing around our system pushing us into a relationship with someone we hardly even know. This is harder for those who are younger because all we can think about is "being in love." It would be good to take things slowly until you have a better idea of who the person is that you feel so "in love" with. And, what our definition of love is and what it really is are, I think, two very different things.

fwiw

Honesty and communication. Preferably the two together. In my case, it was like swimming through an electric swamp at first. I had my first ever panic attack after getting closer to my friend...done a lot of internal considering too. The body's way of trying to protect itself [from that which clashes with ideals/survival instincts - i.e. feel-good chemicals, stress chemicals - fight or flight responce etc]. I think I'm more direct as a result, but it is ongoing.

By continuing The Work, you come to understand yourself better..a lot of ideas about yourself come down. To love and trust her, you'd have to see her as she is, not as you'd like her to be. The more you come to an understanding of yourself as you are, the more you can come to an understanding of what is and know/apply a course of action from there...osit.

I'm in the same boat as you nonetheless ahaha Best of luck!