Are all prolamins detrimental (aka is rice really gluten free)?

Laura said:
Puhleeeeeeeeze don't tell me I can't have buckwheat!!!

I wasn't trying to imply that buckwheat is automatically bad because of what some research papers said. If it works for you, then it works! I love buckwheat, too, and I haven't had a problem with it so far. The paper might explain why some people have been having problems with it, though.

Can't wait for the new DCM article! :)
 
Galaxia2002 said:
I have heard that sometimes the packing machine used on rice may also have been used to pack wheat and that contaminates it. It can trigger reactions to wheat in celiac persons that eat rice. Maybe rinse the rice with water before cook it could help.

I was kind of wondering the same about buckwheat flour. Is the buckwheat flour people have problems with certified "gluten free"? Otherwise, there might be some residual wheat flour if the milling equipment was used for both types of flour. I have no proof to back up this claim; this is just a possibility to ponder. It might explain why some people have had problems with buckwheat.
 
RyanX said:
I was kind of wondering the same about buckwheat flour. Is the buckwheat flour people have problems with certified "gluten free"? Otherwise, there might be some residual wheat flour if the milling equipment was used for both types of flour. I have no proof to back up this claim; this is just a possibility to ponder. It might explain why some people have had problems with buckwheat.

Yeah, sometimes they specify in the label: "may contain traces of gluten." Then you know that cross-contamination is definitely a possibility. And then, who knows about those who don't feel obliged to specify if their products may contain gluten or not.
 
Oh dear. Well, let's summarise a little and see what can be gleaned from the sources so far.

I created an online spreadsheet (including an HTML version) which collects information from scientific journals. It contains three pages - the albumin, globulin, prolamin and glutelin composition of buckwheat and rice; prolamin content of various grains as quoted by Dr. Peter Osborne; and a list of references.

The primary source of information is Food Chemistry although other sources have also been identified. I was not able to locate all of them and add the results this quickly but maybe others can join in.

The numerical results were written down exactly as quoted by the references and the relevant journal article was also given. Some sources identify the individual grain species (well, let's call them grains though buckwheat is not) - others merely give value ranges for groups of species. That is also clearly spelt out. In the case of rice, fairly non-descript names were published (e.g., PR-106) so I also added descriptions based on the appearance of the grain (e.g., coarse medium length). These come from the relevant sources as well.

Dr. Osborne defines gluten as any protein that belongs to either the family of prolamins or glutelins (is this an unassailable statement?). So the fraction values in those two groups are of importance to this investigation.

The first thing that immediately jumps out is that rice is very high in glutelin content. In fact, this is the bulk of the total proteins and is several times that of buckwheat. On the other hand, buckwheat appears to be mainly composed of albumin and has a higher prolamin content.

Now, I can't make a determination whether glutelins are more "evil" than prolamins - perhaps a medical professional can express an opinion. It's interesting, however, that people who withdraw rice from their diet, see an improvement in overall health. Can this be caused by a reduction in the intake of glutelins...?

When it comes to prolamins, buckwheat does indeed look worse for wear based on the sources quoted. Rice seems to be very low in prolamins - and the values are much smaller than what Dr. Osborne is giving us. So I see a discrepancy here already.

Moreover - there is a discrepancy between various studies themselves! So who is right? Well, you could look at averages - as zlyja mentioned, but one of the sources explains this as follows:

Xiaona Guo said:
Table 1 shows the Kjeldahl nitrogen and the protein
content of fractions from defatted tartary buckwheat
flour. Albumin was the predominant protein fraction
(43.8%) followed by glutelin (14.6%), prolamin
(10.5%), and globulin (7.82%).

This is in disagreement with earlier reports (Imai & Shibata, 1978;
Pomeranz,1983; Tahir & Farooq, 1985; Wei et al., 2003). Imai
and Shibata (1978) reported 40–77% albumin and globulin,
0.7–2.0% prolamin, and 23–59% glutelin and residual
protein for commercial buckwheat flour.

Pomeranz (1983) reported that buckwheat protein was composed
of about 80% albumin and globulin. Tahir and Farooq
(1985) found that the proportions of albumin plus globulin,
prolamin, glutelin, and residual protein were 38–
44%, 2–5%, 21–29% and 28–37%, respectively, for 4
buckwheat species.

Wei et al. (2003) reported that proportions
of albumin, globulin, prolamin, and glutelin
were 16.8–30.3%, 4.96–21.6%, 3.08–7.01%, and 11.5–
16.0%, respectively, for four buckwheat species.

Fractionation of plant proteins on the basis of solubilities
in different solvents is only an estimation of the protein
composition. Different extraction methods and various
species may lead to greatly different results.


Table 1 also shows the nitrogen content of the protein fractions.
The globulin content was the lowest (7.82%) but its protein
content was the highest (92.9%).

Makes sense. The variability of results is due to the differences in plant material, the methods used - and the experimental error. This is my first criticism of Dr. Osborne's statement about the prolamin content of rice. I would like to see his sources, too.

But hey, after seeing the results, I gave away all my rice. Gonna see what happens - the last rice meal I had was on Friday and I am already less mucousy and my back pain is gone. Though that is not a very scientific statement because I eat other foods as well and ate less during the weekend due to the confusion about this topic.

The next direction could be - what are prolamins and what are glutelins? What are their individual effects on the human body? Are there differences in the ways those proteins act on the human body within each group - i.e., do all prolamins act in the same way; are some less harmful than others? (It's this generalisation that bothers me, actually).

Going further, can some people be more sensitive to prolamins as opposed to glutelins - and vice versa. Could that explain the different reactions to buckwheat and rice. Are people with IBS, therefore, more sensitive to prolamins and tolerate glutelins better? The picture may be more complicated than we think and this is the reason for my Q to the C's.

Laura said:
Puhleeeeeeeeze don't tell me I can't have buckwheat!!!

LOL - no kidding. I think this is one of those cross-roads questions and we can either be totally committed to eliminating prolamins (which indeed means no grains or buckwheat and going Palaeolithic) - or we may be able to identify cases where moderated consumption is OK.

After reading these articles, I am convinced that buckwheat consumption is very beneficial to the human body, though there are a few catches which we may be able to correct with appropriate supplements or enzymes. Have a look at this:

Composition and technological properties of the flour and bran from common and tartary buckwheat
G. Bonafaccia, M. Marocchini, I. Kreft
Food Chemistry 80 (2003) 9–15

Two types of buckwheat are used around the world:
common buckwheat (Fagopyrum esculentum) and tartary
buckwheat (Fagopyrum tataricum). Which one is
used depends on the production zone. Generally, in
Europe, USA, Canada, Brazil, South Africa and Australia,
the more common buckwheat is grown.

The same is true in most Asian buckwheat growing countries, for
example Japan, Korea, and the central and northern
parts of China. Tartary buckwheat (Lin, Tao, & Li,
1992) is grown and used in the mountainous regions of
southwest China (Sichuan).

In northern India, Bhutan, and Nepal both types are known,
tartary buckwheat being grown in more harsh climatic conditions.
Many buckwheat flour products are quite similar.
Buckwheat pasta is used in Italy (pizzoccheri), in Japan,
as soba and in Korea and China as extruded noodles and
‘‘cats’ ears’’; also there are buckwheat pizza and ‘‘polenta’’
type buckwheat porridge (zganci in Slovenia, sterz
in Austria, soba-gaki in Japan). The products change
their name according to the area in which they are
produced.

In Europe, buckwheat has been grown for centuries
and is now, alongside spelt wheat (Bonafaccia, Galli,
Francisci, Mair, Skrabanja, & Kreft, 2000), one of the
most important alternative crops, suitable for ecological
growing, without the use of artificial fertilizers or pesticides.
It is used for flour and groats products in central
and eastern Europe (Kreft, 1994).

For many years, cultivation of buckwheat declined, but recent interest in old,
traditional foods and a re-evaluation of typical regional
products, has led to a resurgence in its cultivation. Buckwheat
products are known for their resistant starch

(Skrabanja, Laerke, & Kreft, 1998; Skrabanja, Liljeberg,
Kreft, & Bjo¨ rck, 2001) and as an important source of
antioxidative substances
(Kreft, Bonafaccia, & Zigo,
1994; Kreft, Skrabanja, Ikeda, Ikeda, & Bonafaccia, 1996;
Kreft, Knapp, & Kreft, 1999; Nagai, Sakai, Inoue, Inoue,
& Suzuki, 2001; Park et al., 2000; Watanabe, 1998), trace
elements
(Ikeda & Yamashita, 1994), and dietary fibre
(Steadman, Burgoon, Lewis, Edwardson, & Obendorf
2001).

Buckwheat proteins have a high biological value,
but relatively low true digestibility
(Skrabanja, Nygaard,
& Kreft, 2000).

Buckwheat protein products have been
associated with preventative nutrition. In experimental
animals they suppress gallstone formation
better than soy
protein isolate (Tomotake, Shimaoka, Kayashita,
Yokoyama, Nakajoh, & Kato, 2000). They are associated
with retardation of mammary carcinogenesis by lowering
serum estradiol, and with suppression of colon carcinogenesis
by reducing cell proliferation
(Kayashita, Shimaoka,
Nakajoh, Kishida,&Kato, 1999; Liu et al., 2001).

...and this one...

Effect of processing on buckwheat phenolics and antioxidant activity
Ilkay Sensoy, Robert T. Rosen, Chi-Tang Ho, Mukund V. Karwe
Food Chemistry 99 (2006) 388–393

Phenolic compounds in buckwheat have been shown to
possess antioxidative activity (Halosava et al., 2002). Tian,
Li, and Patil (2002) have identified four main flavonolglycosides
in methanol extracts, namely, rutin, quercetin,
kaempferol-3-rutinoside, and a trace quantity of a flavonol
triglycoside
. Watanabe (1998) has isolated catechins along
with rutin in buckwheat. Buckwheat was cultivated as a rutin
source but later was discontinued due to the discovery
of other highly concentrated sources of rutin such as dimorphandra,
which is a legume plant. Rutin has been shown
to exhibit antioxidative, antihemorrhagic, and blood vessel
protecting properties
(Baumgertel, Grimm, Eisenbeib, &
Kreis, 2003).

Several researchers have investigated health benefits of
buckwheat. According to Prestamo, Pedrazuela, Penas,
Lasuncion, and Arroyo (2003) buckwheat could be used
as a prebiotic food because it was found to increase lactic
acid bacteria in rat intestine
. Kim et al. (2003) claimed that
buckwheat grain extract could be used in the treatment of
allergic inflammation
. Buckwheat has been shown (Kawa,
Taylor, & Przybylski, 2003) to reduce the serum glucose level
in rats due to high content of D-chrio-inositol (D-Cl), a
component of an insulin mediator
.

Proteins in buckwheat flour do not have any toxic prolamins
to Celiac patients
(Aubrecht & Biacs, 2001; Im,
Huff, & Hsieh, 2003). Buckwheat protein suppresses gallstone
formation and cholesterol level
more strongly than
soy protein isolate (Kayashita, Shimaoka, & Nakajyuh,
1995; Tomotake et al., 2000). Protein digestibility of whole
buckwheat grain is relatively low (<80%) due to high content
of crude fiber and tannin, a protease inhibitor
(Ikeda,
Sakaguchi, Kusano, & Yasumoto, 1991; Pandya, Smith,
Yarwood, Gilroy, & Richardson, 1996).

Interestingly, buckwheat has been recognized as a common food allergen
in Korea and Japan
(Park et al., 2000; Tanaka et al., 2002;
Taylor & Hefle, 2001) but not in North America where
milk, egg, peanut, tree nut, fish, shellfish, soy and wheat
are at the top of the list of allergies, probably due to less
popularity of buckwheat products

So it looks like there is this digestibility dimension to buckwheat as well and, perhaps, that's what's causing problems in some people. There may even be differences based on ethnic background. Sorry, the details escape me right now but isn't there a protocol to aid digestion of foods by adding certain amino acids? Could anyone comment on that?

And there is this:

Xiaona Guo said:
3.4. In vitro pepsin digestibility

Table 3 shows in vitro pepsin digestibility of defatted
tartary buckwheat flour protein fractions and other food
proteins.

Protein digestibility may be affected by two
types of factors: exogenous factors (protease inhibitors,
phytic acid, polyphenols and tannin) and endogenous
factors (protein structure) (Duodu, Taylor, Belton, &
Hamaker, 2003).

The digestibilities of defatted tartary
buckwheat flour protein fractions (from high to low)
were: albumin > globulin > prolamin and glutelin.

Compared with isolated protein of wheat germ and soybean,
tartary buckwheat flour fractions had relatively
lower digestibility. In addition to some antinutrients,
the lower digestibility of these fractions might be affected
by structural properties but the mechanism influencing
this needs to be studied further.

Others made a comment in this thread that gluten contamination in buckwheat flour could be the real cause of digestive discomfort. I think it's a fair comment and I wonder if it's possible to find a product for gluten testing of food. Does anyone know if such a thing exists? I would love to have something like that at home - my seeds are marked as "gluten free" but not the flour so it would be interesting to check.

Anywhoo, that's where this thread is at. It's not all as clear as we would like it to be and I would be weary of anyone making general statements about prolamins. I got rid of rice from the house and will give the updated protocol a go. Although, it would be nice to clear up this quandary - if buckwheat has prolamins and it is also found to be OK through testing - then not all prolamins are harmful, right?

Unless, it is wrong - in which case the Paleolithic diet will be the way to go...
 
Just a quick follow-up to this thread. It turns out that my reactions to buckwheat flour were caused by gluten contamination. I originally purchased the flour from the Woolworths supermaket in Australia - it was cheap and the packaging did not say anything about gluten (I still have the bag in my cupboard...). A few weeks ago, I checked again and the packaging was changed. This time, in a very small print on the side of the bag it says "Contains: Gluten".

Doh! Bastards! :thdown:

Obviously, between then and now, people must have been complaining and the warning was included on the bag. Lesson: always buy buckwheat that's market "Gluten Free". Having just gone through a whole week of diet based on buckweat flour - without any adverse reactions, I can say that eating buckwheat is OK for yours truly. Other people with problems might want to check this as well!

I also stopped eating rice and noticed that the body really likes that a lot. The feeling is very light and there is no more bloating. I was not able to reach that stage until I cut it out completely.
So there you go...
 
Good news, Adam! :) I haven't had any problems with the buckwheat, either, but whenever I eat rice now, my stomach cramps and my energy feels drained. That's only for whole rice, though; if I mix rice flower in the crepes, it's fine.

By the way, since I haven't been able to order the DCM yet (money's ready, but it's raining like crazy), did the interview with Dr. Osborne clear anything up on this issue?

Edit: FWIW, this article (_http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/science/19bread.html?ref=science) says that our ancestors were eating flatbreads 30,000 years ago. They don't mention a specific kind of flour, though, so I'm assuming it's wheat. I haven't been able to find the actual publication, though. Might be a blow to the Paleolithic idea, or it might be a change for the timeline of human evolution.
 
I am wondering about acorns now. They are supposed to be different from other nuts somehow. They were almost definitely a subsistence food during their season for various indigenous peoples who had access to them. After a couple of soakings to remove the tannins, they can be dried and then made into flour.
 
I haven't been able to find any buckwheat flour specifically noted as being gluten free. I've also only ever found small, expensive bags of it. So now I'm buying whole buckwheat and blending it to make pancakes, which works really well and is cheaper.
 
Psalehesost said:
I haven't been able to find any buckwheat flour specifically noted as being gluten free. I've also only ever found small, expensive bags of it. So now I'm buying whole buckwheat and blending it to make pancakes, which works really well and is cheaper.

That's the way I do it too. I buy a big bag of pure buckwheat and from that I make my own buckwheat flour. So doing that, I am sure there is no gluten in it.
 
In Dr. Osborne's presentation see _ http://www.glutenfreesociety.org/video-tutorial/gluten-sensitivity-what-is-it/ the gluten component prolamine was in rice at 5 % of protein content.
AND
_http://lnmcp.mf.uni-lj.si/Fago/SYMPO/2001sympoEach/2001s-629.pdf said:
Buckwheat prolamins were most effectively extracted from buckwheat (Fagopyrum esculentum Moench) flour by 55% n-propanol and were 3.37 to 4.95% of total protein under the most efficient conditions for extraction (at 60°C).

Since the protein content of rice is 7- 8% of a hundred grams against 13 % in buckwheat one will get more prolamine from 100 grams of buckwheat than 100 grams of white rice. Because
Rice: 5%*7-8grams=0.35-0.4 grams prolamine/100 grams
Buckwheat: 3.37%-4,95%*13grams=0.438 grams-0,6435 grams/100 grams

Based on the numbers that Adam found in his research (https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AksPzXprB49ldGE4WEVRMXVoQ09YRjVLcDB3enM4YlE&authkey=CJ_gvqAD&hl=en_GB&output=html) one could calculate more for rice and buckwheat. Rice, according to the numbers in Adams table, is much richer in glutelin than buckwheat in any case. This small calculation shows that to estimate the the total prolamine/glutelin impact one can look at the total amount of protein per 100 grams.


Mod's note: Edited to fix the quotation boxes
 
zlyja said:
Edit: FWIW, this article (_http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/science/19bread.html?ref=science) says that our ancestors were eating flatbreads 30,000 years ago. They don't mention a specific kind of flour, though, so I'm assuming it's wheat. I haven't been able to find the actual publication, though. Might be a blow to the Paleolithic idea, or it might be a change for the timeline of human evolution.

Turns out it was flour made from plant roots, not grains.
 
Laura said:
zlyja said:
Edit: FWIW, this article (_http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/science/19bread.html?ref=science) says that our ancestors were eating flatbreads 30,000 years ago. They don't mention a specific kind of flour, though, so I'm assuming it's wheat. I haven't been able to find the actual publication, though. Might be a blow to the Paleolithic idea, or it might be a change for the timeline of human evolution.

Turns out it was flour made from plant roots, not grains.

Yep, you can read it here:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/216609-Bread-was-around-30-000-years-ago-study
The findings, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) journal on Monday, indicate that Palaeolithic Europeans ground down plant roots similar to potatoes to make flour, which was later whisked into dough.

"It's like a flat bread, like a pancake with just water and flour," said Laura Longo, a researcher on the team from the Italian Institute of Prehistory and Early History.
 
Oops. :-[ That's what I get for not reading carefully! Thanks for pointing that out. Kind of inspires me to make sweet potato flour, actually!
 
This may be a bit off-topic here.

Concerning only what I've experienced so far with this diet, both brown and white rice affect me with poor digestion and a lot of mucus on my stool - especially the refined one.

The first impact with buckwheat wasn't so good as expected either. But sticking to it has had good results, the better if a lot of animal fat and veggies are consumed with it. Then, as my cooking skills improved, buckwheat started to taste more digestible while I had to reduce the consumption of rice dishes to no more than trice x week at max. or I'll get an headache and constipation.

So far it seems to me that cooking buckwheat with the right amount of heat is critical for its digestion, and having a fat-rich diet is also critical for my digestion.

At first I had a bad vibe with the blinis too. To me they looked poorly cooked, as the upper side left the pan almost pale, and the time for frying 'em looked to short to even try to 'cook' that hard buckwheat flour. Anyway the digestion seemed unaffected - consider that I had the chance of eating it with duck lard only for one week - and maybe the all that fat that I cannot find so easily here at home has really an effect in the whole digestion process (sorry for the repetition!).
 
Laura said:
Turns out it was flour made from plant roots, not grains.

There's a short blurb on this topic in this week's New Scientist as well:

Stone Age humans liked their burgers in a bun

Forget the idea that hunter-gatherers lived on low-carb meat diets. Palaeolithic mammoth burgers were eaten with a bun.

Anna Revedin of the Italian Institute of Prehistory and Early History in Florence and colleagues analysed the wear-marks and traces of plants on 30,000-year-old grindstones found in Italy, Russia and the Czech Republic.

This showed that they had been used as mortars and pestles to grind plants like cat's tail and fern roots, which packed a starchy, high-energy punch. The find suggests that Stone Age humans across Europe even knew how to make flour – a complex process involving harvesting roots, then drying, grinding and finally cooking them to make them digestible. Revedin says the development of flour may have helped hunter-gatherers survive changes in the climate, from chilly winters to parched summers.

The reason Palaeolithic humans were thought to have lived solely on wild meat, says Revedin, is that previous plant evidence was washed away by overzealous archaeologists as they cleaned the tools at dig sites. "This is the first time anybody has tried to find vegetable material on them," she says.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1006993107
 

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