Are people who want to close their forum account spies?

[s-kur]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

Having noticed all the points of view here I got an idea. May be I'm a bit melancholic here but just an opprtunity that those guys just wanted a bit attention, yes, but not as ego manifestation, but more like request for help, you know...Sometimes children inclined to act in this way because they hesitate and embarassed to ask directly and they are waiting for somebody who'll ask "What's going on? Let's talk about it.." I know that everybody have to step it out and don't use such kind of influnces, passive agression. Sometimes it seems that all the things and emotions becoming the mush and it's difficult to distinguish them. OSIT

 

[casper]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

Having noticed all the points of view here I got an idea. May be I'm a bit melancholic here but just an opprtunity that those guys just wanted a bit attention, yes, but not as ego manifestation, but more like request for help, you know...Sometimes children inclined to act in this way because they hesitate and embarassed to ask directly and they are waiting for somebody who'll ask "What's going on? Let's talk about it.." I know that everybody have to step it out and don't use such kind of influnces, passive agression. Sometimes it seems that all the things and emotions becoming the mush and it's difficult to distinguish them. OSIT

But we asked;

Why may I ask Red Star when you have come so far do you want to retreat at this stage? Is there anything anyone here can help with?

Hi blue bell, I see in your foot note you write

""All there is, is Lessons."

Learning is Fun :) "

That means your lesson is over?

Pourquoi nous quittez-vous ?

Why are you leaving us?

 

[Ðekel]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

I think Chu summed it up quite nicely:

[..]
Almost as if there were less and less people sitting on the fence, in different areas of life. They are either with someone/some ideology/principles, etc. or against them! Either way, the division becomes clearer and the gap larger. Maybe.

There could be any number of reasons for this.
Maybe each case is unique and maybe not.

Indeed casper, help was offered but it wasn't really asked for.

The point is, it's their choice to be here or not.

 

[casper]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

Indeed casper, help was offered but it wasn't really asked for.

You're right, the help it wasn't really asked .We must not interfere in one's free will and choice.

Session 22 October 1994

A: Those who are truly, within themselves, at all points of development, trying to seek greater knowledge, will not be blocked by any ideas relating to illegitimacy as you refer to it. Those who are obsessed, by choice, rather than trying to seek true knowledge, will indeed be blocked at that point. It is all up to the choice of the individual. If you choose to develop and gain knowledge then you are never blocked or obsessed at any point about anything ever. However if you choose to limit your knowledge or become obsessed then you are constantly finding yourself blocked and this will manifest in all your life experiences. That is part of the individual soul development pattern. It is all based on choice. Therefore it is not possible for you to interfere with another's choice to acquire knowledge or not and how it is or is not done. There is no need to try to alter another's perceptions because that would be to interfere with free will. If one chooses to be obsessed rather than to be illumined, that is their choice!

 

[whitecoast]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

I agree with Casper that people shouldn't have tried to persuade them to stay.

At the same time though, I am not happy with the Newbies section turning into the last-resort soapbox for the ex-sorta-new members. That just enables ungracious or covert aggressive exits, imo and could discourage some of the newer members anyhow. I wonder if it would be more suitable for the "leaving" threads to be merged into the posters' original introduction threads? That would allow us to keep better track, and people who return again usually have their new intro thread merged back into the old. Just a thought.

Edit: I feel this session transcript from March 21st 2015 is somewhat relevant:

Q: (L) And who do we have with us this evening?

A: Neeileigl of Cassiopaea. Keep faith with each other.

Q: (Andromeda) What does "keep faith with each other" mean?

A: We notice that there are members of your forum who are not doing this.

Q: (L) In what respect?

A: Covertly antagonistic.

Q: (L) So there are people who are covertly antagonistic. Why are they covertly antagonistic?

A: Little respect.

Q: (L) So they have little respect.

(Chu) I'm assuming that means for you or us?

(L) In other words, they don't have respect for the group?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Us particularly?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Anything more than that?

A: You especially.

Q: (L) Why?

A: Inspired by negative discarnate entities with connections to 4D STS "handlers".

Q: (Andromeda) Are these people a danger?

A: They are looking for opportunities to manipulate weaker members away.

Q: (L) So, what is it that makes somebody weak?

A: Mostly ego.

Q: (L) Okay. Anything we should be doing about this?

A: Just be aware. Members should also be aware and alert to invitations.

Q: (L) Invitations? What kind of invitations?

A: To express dissatisfaction when feeling disaffected due to lack of faith in the process.

Q: (L) Well, I think everybody gets into a period where they feel a lack of faith. Sometimes it's just a chemical feeling, like when you're depressed and everything is black, nothing will ever be nice again, your life is crappy, and that sort of thing. So I think that anybody can be vulnerable to that.

A: Yes. It needs to be aired out.

Q: (L) So, if people would just talk about it, that would help?

A: Yes

Of course, if someone only announces they're leaving, it's a little late for them to air out their feelings, despite the overtures of some members asking. Maybe the lines being drawn in the sand (as Chu and the C's suggested) makes the window for this sincere dialogue much shorter for some people? I don't know how to address that specifically, aside from all of us doing our best to be objectively helpful for others who ask for help. Living by example and all that. Asking why people are leaving when they don't want to really talk about it tends to compromise the feeling of openess or safety a little, I think. FWIW. :)

 

[Kisito]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

Whitecoast thank you for this "recapitulation" of this session of March. This looks like a warning of Cs, these terminations. Some people are influenced by entities 4d STS .. But I think that there is a hard core band these resilliations. But to little effect disturb us negatively, it continues to make me smile. For a person who really wants to leave this the forum and thought is not interested, or that which is amusing is that they seem to be polished and humble, and they are all a dramatization to exit. As to send a message, "Look how humble and wise leave the forum." I did not know I could laugh as much on the forum. Thank you Laura, I learn the lessons and I laugh.

 

[Mr. Premise]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

Indeed casper, help was offered but it wasn't really asked for.

You're right, the help it wasn't really asked .We must not interfere in one's free will and choice.

Session 22 October 1994

A: Those who are truly, within themselves, at all points of development, trying to seek greater knowledge, will not be blocked by any ideas relating to illegitimacy as you refer to it. Those who are obsessed, by choice, rather than trying to seek true knowledge, will indeed be blocked at that point. It is all up to the choice of the individual. If you choose to develop and gain knowledge then you are never blocked or obsessed at any point about anything ever. However if you choose to limit your knowledge or become obsessed then you are constantly finding yourself blocked and this will manifest in all your life experiences. That is part of the individual soul development pattern. It is all based on choice. Therefore it is not possible for you to interfere with another's choice to acquire knowledge or not and how it is or is not done. There is no need to try to alter another's perceptions because that would be to interfere with free will. If one chooses to be obsessed rather than to be illumined, that is their choice!

Another thing to keep in mind is that in the 4th Way Work it is a principle not to chase after people who leave. It can backfire in a lot of ways. Also it can abridge free will, since it can place pressure on the people who want to leave. I think it's best to let people leave, not express sadness or anything, then later if they decide to come back, welcome them. In other words, no pressure should be put on the person's decision either way. I'll see if I can find the passage in ISOTM.

Also it's like if you're in a relationship with someone else and they want to leave. Normally, the person left wants explanations, usually in order to counter the reasons in different ways. Also, the person leaving is not usually telling all the reasons they have, just the ones that sound good. They may not even know the real reasons.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

Indeed casper, help was offered but it wasn't really asked for.

You're right, the help it wasn't really asked .We must not interfere in one's free will and choice.

Session 22 October 1994

A: Those who are truly, within themselves, at all points of development, trying to seek greater knowledge, will not be blocked by any ideas relating to illegitimacy as you refer to it. Those who are obsessed, by choice, rather than trying to seek true knowledge, will indeed be blocked at that point. It is all up to the choice of the individual. If you choose to develop and gain knowledge then you are never blocked or obsessed at any point about anything ever. However if you choose to limit your knowledge or become obsessed then you are constantly finding yourself blocked and this will manifest in all your life experiences. That is part of the individual soul development pattern. It is all based on choice. Therefore it is not possible for you to interfere with another's choice to acquire knowledge or not and how it is or is not done. There is no need to try to alter another's perceptions because that would be to interfere with free will. If one chooses to be obsessed rather than to be illumined, that is their choice!

Another thing to keep in mind is that in the 4th Way Work it is a principle not to chase after people who leave. It can backfire in a lot of ways. Also it can abridge free will, since it can place pressure on the people who want to leave. I think it's best to let people leave, not express sadness or anything, then later if they decide to come back, welcome them. In other words, no pressure should be put on the person's decision either way. I'll see if I can find the passage in ISOTM.

I agree. I see these "please delete my account" threads as fishing expeditions, essentially. As has been stated, instead of just leaving, or contacting a mod to delete the account, these users are making a production of it. And by chasing after them, saying "no, no, please stay" we're basically giving them exactly what they were after, pumping up the ego and dumping energy into the void. I see it as a feeding dynamic.

 

[loreta]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

As I see it, there are those who just wanted to leave, close the account and they are direct. Nothing more. And some that they think maybe they have to leave for any reason and they explain why, give their reasons, etc. I remember a member who once wanted to leave but he explained why so it was very good to give him insights for not leaving the forum. He was free to leave or not but after talking and thinking he changed his or her idea. This is an open door to communication and exchange. But if someone says: please, close my account, that's it. First, he did not learn how to communicate, does not wanted to exchange ideas, doubts, reasons why he should leave. It is a sort of drastic decision and we have to accept it like it is. I think so...

 

[Mr. Premise]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

Another thing to keep in mind is that in the 4th Way Work it is a principle not to chase after people who leave. It can backfire in a lot of ways. Also it can abridge free will, since it can place pressure on the people who want to leave. I think it's best to let people leave, not express sadness or anything, then later if they decide to come back, welcome them. In other words, no pressure should be put on the person's decision either way. I'll see if I can find the passage in ISOTM.

I found the passage I was looking for. It's in Chapter 13 of In Search of the Miraculous:

Only two people dropped off who, exactly as though through some kind of magic as it seemed to us, suddenly ceased to understand anything and saw in everything that G. said misunderstanding on his part, and, on the part of the rest, a lack of sympathy and feeling.

This attitude, at first mistrustful and suspicious and then openly hostile to almost all of us, coming from nobody knew where and full of strange and quite unexpected accusations, astonished us very much.

...

"How must we speak to them and how can we help them to come back to the group?" some of us asked G.

"Not only can you do nothing," G. said to them, "but you ought not to try because by such attempts you will destroy the last chance they have of understanding and seeing themselves. It is always very difficult to come back. And it must be an absolutely voluntary decision without any sort of persuasion or constraint."

 

[Chu]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

Thanks Mr Premise, that quote really is appropriate here, I think.

The other thing is that we must always think about what benefits others. Why spend so much energy trying to make those who don't want to stay, instead of focusing on giving feedback to, respond to and network with people who DO want to be part of our home. If someone is puling a tantrum or trying to get our attention by making this "leaving scene", I'm not very inclined to beg. A different thing is when someone expresses doubts and is not sure, and ASKS.

We also need to think about newbies. What impression are we giving if we "beg" for people to give us reasons or to stay? Maybe that could scare them out, thinking that we try to "hook people in", which is something we have never wanted to do, and never will.

If they want to return, the door is always open. We never closed it, they did. But it's an opportunity for some of us to observe our reaction when those members leave, and understand why we feel (or not) the "impulse" to rescue those people. OSIT.

 

[Phill4]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

I was about to ask the same question, i mean is not impossible, I posted an article in this group on Facebook once and not long after a guy with the name of the author of the book the group was about, was making any number of comments on the post, also when i looked at what he wrote previously it was just copy and paste quotes from the book.

So if the group is about Tesla, the person would copy and paste quotes from Tesla, if the group is about eEinstein they will write quotes about Einstein etc.... and then they will use that as a shield to do their thing.


Others will be more human about it and retreat on their terms, or elaborate.

 

[Deleted member 4320]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

I read recently about provocative therapy. Generally one of conclusion is that people listen but not "hear" or hear but not "listen" ( ;) ) good advices and also their motivation falls when others pity on them.

Better works to say something provocative, absurd and with a bit of humor.

"You want to leave. Yeah go away, you think we will cry because of it? :) It is 21st century, it's clear that not everyone is such organized and resourceful to find some free time. Forum membership is absolutely free, but better delete account, especially that thanks to entering here from time to time with spending here minimum of time and viewing only your favorite topics you may hit something intriguing and valuable for you."

---------
Provocative Therapy - Frank Farrelly _http://www.amazon.com/Provocative-Therapy-Frank-Farrelly/dp/0916990036

 

[whitecoast]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

I read recently about provocative therapy. Generally one of conclusion is that people listen but not "hear" or hear but not "listen" ( ;) ) good advices and also their motivation falls when others pity on them.

Better works to say something provocative, absurd and with a bit of humor.

"You want to leave. Yeah go away, you think we will cry because of it? :) It is 21st century, it's clear that not everyone is such organized and resourceful to find some free time. Forum membership is absolutely free, but better delete account, especially that thanks to entering here from time to time with spending here minimum of time and viewing only your favorite topics you may hit something intriguing and valuable for you."

---------
Provocative Therapy - Frank Farrelly _http://www.amazon.com/Provocative-Therapy-Frank-Farrelly/dp/0916990036

If someone asks you for therapeutic help (such as provocation) by all means give it to them :). But I think your example is a very good demonstration of reverse psychology, which is just another persuasion/manipulation tactic.

 

[Archaea]

Re: All people who want to close are they their forum account spies?

Two of the people who wanted to leave are Bluebell and Timejack. Blue bell was banned on page 7 of this thread: Has anybody from this forum become man number 4 (or higher)? for posting this:

Hi all,

Thanks for replying Highfive, your answers were accurate and much appreciated.

Much to think about, to Do and to Be.

I Hope everyone has a good day :)

Emotions are funny things and being banned can be upsetting. I think this is why Bluebell asked for his/her account to be deleted, i.e. I think it was a reactive decision.

I think Timejack left for a similar reason due to events on this thread: Don't flatter yourselves.

I'm interested in how forum members feel about people leaving the forum, do some people find it confronting? Or do others feel nothing about it one way or the other? Or are there other feelings?