Are the C's really Lizards?

[lastrevolution]

The only reason of my posts is because there are always some in the canyon who secretly wish to get out, but don't know where to start. I have no problem throwing some ropes.

Hmmm... are you under the insane delusion that anybody has any difficulty clicking the X at the upper right corner of the screen in the event that there is anything about this forum that they do not like?

No, but are you under the delusion that thoughts disappear the moment you are leaving the website that implanted them in you? I think you of all people should understand the true power of thought (and I think you do). All wars ever created started not with a rifle, but a thought. Hell, I suspect that even the entire universe did. Imo, one needs to be more careful of the thoughts inside of one's head than the emotions inside of one's belly.

Well, there is actually a scientific study about such thoughts; it's called "The Third Person Effect"

In other words, this is just a milder version of what Lobaczewski described as the schizoid psychopath, the one that believes only a strong and powerful authority can be right and people are so weak they can't think on their own and need to obey such an authority. Plus, when it reaches the pathological level, such individuals really believe that they, and they alone, know the answers and everyone should conform to their version of reality.

That is to say, you suffer from that which you project onto others.

I am psychopath yes, when will you admit you are one? Only a fellow psychopath can throw those extreme labels around like they are happy meals. Based on a grand total of 2 and a half posts I am already labeled and diagnosed with the Dunning-Kruger Effect, supreme ego, the Third Person Effect, a troll and a possible schizoid. BRILLIANT. This is amazing. Wait, wait, I know the next one already: COINTELPRO AGENT! Oh, I love 3rd density, atleast I can interact with STS here (or STO, if I am actually the one who is STS), because, clearly, our vibrations do not match.

 

[Beau]

because, clearly, our vibrations do not match.

Clearly. Perhaps you would be happier on another forum, one that more closely aligns with your vibrations.

 

[Joe]

Based on a grand total of 2 and a half posts I am already labeled and diagnosed with the Dunning-Kruger Effect, supreme ego, the Third Person Effect, a troll and a possible schizoid. BRILLIANT. This is amazing. Wait, wait, I know the next one already: COINTELPRO AGENT! Oh, I love 3rd density, atleast I can interact with STS here (or STO, if I am actually the one who is STS), because, clearly, our vibrations do not match.

In those two and a half posts, especially this one, you provided more than enough data to strongly suggest that you are not sincerely interested in learning anything from us, but rather, that you are interested in being allowed to act like an obnoxious teenager. Basically, you made a mistake, and since you seem unable to find the door yourself....

 

[anart]

I am psychopath yes, when will you admit you are one? Only a fellow psychopath can throw those extreme labels around like they are happy meals. Based on a grand total of 2 and a half posts I am already labeled and diagnosed with the Dunning-Kruger Effect, supreme ego, the Third Person Effect, a troll and a possible schizoid. BRILLIANT. This is amazing. Wait, wait, I know the next one already: COINTELPRO AGENT!

I don't know that any of that applies to you, but what is obvious is that since you do not approve of what you think you see going on here, you want to make sure that others don't approve of it either. That's an interesting thing. You are basically taking it upon yourself to determine what others should or shouldn't do or think or be exposed to or understand. What type of insecurity leads to that type of thinking and behavior? What other people choose to do with their minds and time and lives is really no concern of yours, nor of anyone other than the singular person who makes the choice.

People who go around trying to save others from themselves have always struck me as rather tragic, since not only do they not respect Free Will, but they inevitably end up bitter, angry and a bit bent from the effort of trying to bend the Universe (and others) to their will - to their world view. I think that says more than anything else.

There are many, many things that go on in this world that upset me and that I deeply disagree with - yet - I don't go to the forums that support such things and try to save people from themselves or stop them from doing it or rage against the person that I perceive as their "leader" because it's their life, not mine, and who the heck am I to try to save them from something they want to do? But, as always, human beings are interesting things and you're providing an example of that in real time for anyone interested in observing your particular facet of the interesting and often tragic stone that is human psychology.

In short, yeah, it's obvious you have an issue with Laura and it's obvious that you don't like what goes on here - so what? In the vast scheme of things, why should that matter to anyone else on the planet other than you?

 

[history]

Where I like to think I am coming from on this inquiry is how do I inquire here asking for some summaries of the beliefs here that will help me start to put the pieces together? Wouldn't that be a good tool to have for anyone wanting to learn more but unable to dive right in immediately? Usually in marketing (if you will) there are brochures with the pertinent information listed produced with the intention of piquing the interest of the reader so they will hopefully dig further.

There are several ways of gathering information in a condensed form all by your own efforts.
First and foremost here is the search function (top of every page) which by using proper terms can disclose a wealth of information already discussed or excerpted or condensed or whatever.
Then, secondly, you can browse the glossary for certain mayor concepts: http://cassiopedia.org/glossary/Main_Page
Thirdly, most boards have so called sticky threads which contain the most valuable information in that particular field or info of otherwise great importance.
Finally, there are the recommended reading lists which give you clues on how to prioritize your way into a specific subject.

But, as the saying goes: You can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make it drink... :P ;)

Thank you very much.

And maybe the saying should go, you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him think!

:P

 

[history]

Because, not all material is worth reading, for one.

Very true, which is why this forum has a reading list.

Two, just because your way works for you

My point it that it's NOT "my way" it's this forum's way. "My way" is to learn by doing more than reading. Reading the material before you ask questions about the material is the way of this forum you've chosen to join.

I didn't know that.

Thank you for explaining.

And to be further clear, I wasn't talking about just asking questions about the material but about how the membership feels/believes/uses, etc. ABOUT the material.

Thanks again!

 

[history]

Because, not all material is worth reading, for one.

Yes, not all material is worth reading. But we're talking about the recommended reading on the forum, correct? How do you know if any of these books are worth reading if you don't read them?

Generally speaking, I think it can be possible to evaluate some material without fully reading all of it IF you have a strong background in the area as well as in human behavior, pathology, science, history, etc. There needs to be a foundation of knowledge that is used for discernment and that's what the recommended list is for. I think even if someone gives their thoughts, you still cannot know the value until you work through it yourself.

I was not saying the material here is not worth reading. Why would I be here and say that? I know others say/do just that here but I was not. Again, it's a lot of material and I am someone who needs more than read ALL of this when deciding if I want to invest more time somewhere. It has NOTHING to do with my time is more valuable than others, FWIW.

I was not trying to skip any parts. As I stated, I know there is no free lunch. As I stated in my last reply, I was asking for the memberships feelings/beliefs/practices with the material.

Thanks very much for helping to clarify how things are done here. Much appreciated.

:)

 

[history]

I feel, as I have been reading through some of the copious material provided on this forum and written by Laura, that one of the most frequent points made; is that if you are interested in a subject and/or have more questions regarding the background or the truth of that subject, that you do further reading more specialised to that subject, and often many bibliographical suggestions are made.

Laura has often also made the point that her contact with the C's is viewed as an experiment - nothing seems to be taken at face value and is always scrutinised by her and the team. The fact that they share the raw transcripts with us is just sharing part of their experiment - and at the very top of the transcript database they add this warning:

We strongly discourage people from reading the Cassiopaean transcripts on their own, outside of the context provided by Laura's work, as in our experience people often misinterpret them and tend to project their own ideas, beliefs, and biases onto them. Therefore we advise the reader to read them in context, that is in the Wave and Adventures with Cassiopaea series.

Taking what is read on the forum alone with no context within the rest of the hard work Laura's team puts in is very ignorant, and indeed very misleading - especially when one ignores the very warnings presented by them. The team have themselves said, that it is very probable that some of the transcript material may not be from the expected 'source' and to be skeptical of it - hence their wealth of research and investigation and collection of 'knowledge'. How can one attempt to glean any truth without knowledge?



Am I clear that you were responding to me with the above? Either way, your comments are useful, so thank you.

I was NOT referring to the C transcript in my inquiry about making inquiries (nor was I defending any other poster, etc.) just to be clear (I keep repeating "just to be clear" apparently).


I know I have a very strong 'be nice, support the underdog' program running, and had to step back and think clearly on the points that the moderators had posted. They 'always' encourage that you not take any information as truth or knowledge by 'faith' alone in what they present - but that you look into the background of their material yourself and draw your own conclusions. Much of their work shares their own journey in doing so, and it is up to you to take that extra step. There is no free lunch, you need to truly understand things for yourself before you can accept things as truth, or misguided, or incorrect or questionable.

That is EXACTLY why I ask questions.

 

[history]

Also, History, in addition to what evreryone else has said, a lot has to do with the attitude with which someone asks about an issue. A little humility and some good manners go a long way. And being open to the responses. Which you seem to be, but lastrevolution was lacking all of those things. Personally I think it's OK to ask a question if you haven't read all the material, it is a large amount, as long as you first put a little effort in using the search function and the glossary. Again, it's a question of attitude, effort, and real openness.

I was really not defending lastrevolution or anyone else. My inquiry was my own and I hope my attitude and effort to engage here with real openness has shown through.

Thanks very much to everyone that has responded to my posts.

 

[history]

Because, not all material is worth reading, for one.

Two, just because your way works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone or even anyone else. And sometimes I don't have a map so I ask for one OR gasp, I have a map but can't make sense of it and I ask for help reading the map. Again, not everyone learns or processes data in the same ways, as you clearly know.

I'm intrigued by everything here. I'm just trying to make sense of it in a way that I can understand. I did not say I was not going to read anything suggested. Far from it.

I think you're missing the point that a massive amount of time and effort has gone in to distilling the most useful information from the morass of data out there. You also perhaps fail to understand that each person really does need to do a LOT of work/reading on their own if they aspire to really understanding anything. The point being, even if the amount of suggested reading material seems overwhelming to you, it really is necessary to try and start reading some of it, perhaps the topics that most interest you. No one expects you to read everything on everything, but if you are asking questions on a specific topic, and someone suggests you read a book on that topic, it's not just any old book but a book that we have determined is the best on that particular topic.

Laura's work is a little different in that it offers much more "bang for your buck" so to speak because she has distilled information from many different fields into one book.

I truly hear you but I must say again that not everyone learns in the same way or processes information the same. I need summaries, the BIG picture, and then I work down to details. I know that is confounded by the large amount of information here. I get it.

Many works are multi-dicinplinary, as you know, but I am aware that Laura's works are exceptionally expansive.

This discussion has really helped me to clarify what I was/am looking for. It's not just the details of the work, although, those are the bricks of it all, but I'm deeply interested in how the work manifests in the lives of the members- what you do with it day to day, how you interact with your families about it if they are not as committed, how you maintain happiness in your lives when you are so acutely aware of the psychopaths all around us. I could go on but I'll stop there.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Laura]

I truly hear you but I must say again that not everyone learns in the same way or processes information the same. I need summaries, the BIG picture, and then I work down to details. I know that is confounded by the large amount of information here. I get it.

Many works are multi-dicinplinary, as you know, but I am aware that Laura's works are exceptionally expansive.

Then you should know that you aren't going to get a top down summary from me. As Ark says repeatedly, "The Devil is in the details" and that is OH, so TRUE.

I've told the story before somewhere on the forum, but I'll retell it for you. Years ago, my 12 yr old daughter had a friend over and they were at the table in the kitchen while I was cooking. They decided to go in the pool and got up to go put their suits on. As they were getting up, my daughter's friend asked some sort of question that I can't even recall and my daughter hissed at her "For god's sake, don't ask MY mom a question... we'll be here all day!"

So, nope, don't expect summaries from me. I'm incapable of them. I ask other people to do them for me and then I bite my tongue when I see all the stuff they are leaving out.

This discussion has really helped me to clarify what I was/am looking for. It's not just the details of the work, although, those are the bricks of it all, but I'm deeply interested in how the work manifests in the lives of the members- what you do with it day to day, how you interact with your families about it if they are not as committed, how you maintain happiness in your lives when you are so acutely aware of the psychopaths all around us. I could go on but I'll stop there.

Thanks everyone.

But you didn't ask any such questions at all. Based on the topic of the thread, the way you brought in your question, it was inferred by everyone, I think, that your questions had to do with material. NOW you say that your questions have to do with how the work manifests in the lives of the members... day to day... families, etc. So it strikes me that your interaction on this topic has been rather manipulative even if that was not your intention. As the Cs always said, they cannot give an answer to a question that is not a real question. It's the old GIGO problem. The ability to really ASK a question is as important as the desire to know something. In point of fact, at this moment, after your allegedly "satisfactory discussion", you actually do not know anything about what people do from day to day, how they interact with their families, how they maintain happiness etc. Discussions of all those sorts of things are all over the forum but, again, as the Cs say, no pain, no gain. There is NO FREE LUNCH IN THE COSMOS. If you think there is, then YOU are lunch.

 

[Laura]

The only reason of my posts is because there are always some in the canyon who secretly wish to get out, but don't know where to start. I have no problem throwing some ropes.

Hmmm... are you under the insane delusion that anybody has any difficulty clicking the X at the upper right corner of the screen in the event that there is anything about this forum that they do not like?

No, but are you under the delusion that thoughts disappear the moment you are leaving the website that implanted them in you?

Yup, Third Person Effect.

I think you of all people should understand the true power of thought (and I think you do). All wars ever created started not with a rifle, but a thought.

Actually, that's not true. Most wars start because of nonlinear processes, constantly building pressures that can go on for a very long time, and then usually, for the dumbest of reasons, the silliest, the least consequential reason, a spark is ignited. Very little of it ever has anything to do with thought. If thought was so freaking powerful, then this planet would be a very, very different place.

But thought has almost nothing to do with the way human beings act or interact with one another: it is 99% subconscious, repeatedly programmed reactions. Breaking out of programs is very, very hard work. Thoughts that people might encounter on this forum have almost zero chance of changing anything about anybody unless that person already has come to pretty much the same ideas we discuss ON THEIR OWN. As Gurdjieff points out, the person must have exhausted all other avenues and the question must be a burning one.

You obviously haven't read much history or you would know these things. I would suggest that you take a look at Ernest Becker's books "Denial of Death" and "Escape From Evil" to get a much better - and more accurate - idea of what really drives people and how little anything I say or do actually matters to those who are not on the same path. You might also gain insight from reading many of the books we recommend in the cognitive science section.

Which brings us to the fact that this forum is FOR people on a particular path and for no others. It's probably the only group that is accused of being a "cult" where it is very hard to get accepted and very easy to get ejected.

Hell, I suspect that even the entire universe did. Imo, one needs to be more careful of the thoughts inside of one's head than the emotions inside of one's belly.

Geeze, you really believe that "you create your own reality" stuff, don't you? Well, yeah, it's true, just not in the way you think.

Well, there is actually a scientific study about such thoughts; it's called "The Third Person Effect"

In other words, this is just a milder version of what Lobaczewski described as the schizoid psychopath, the one that believes only a strong and powerful authority can be right and people are so weak they can't think on their own and need to obey such an authority. Plus, when it reaches the pathological level, such individuals really believe that they, and they alone, know the answers and everyone should conform to their version of reality.

That is to say, you suffer from that which you project onto others.

I am psychopath yes, when will you admit you are one? Only a fellow psychopath can throw those extreme labels around like they are happy meals. Based on a grand total of 2 and a half posts I am already labeled and diagnosed with the Dunning-Kruger Effect, supreme ego, the Third Person Effect, a troll and a possible schizoid. BRILLIANT. This is amazing. Wait, wait, I know the next one already: COINTELPRO AGENT! Oh, I love 3rd density, atleast I can interact with STS here (or STO, if I am actually the one who is STS), because, clearly, our vibrations do not match.

Interesting that you rather automatically claimed a general assessment of a scientifically studied type, gave evidence that it was true, and never, ever, stopped to question yourself. I did not say YOU were a psychopath, I said your behavior/words fit a particular pattern that has been studied extensively. Not only that, but I said that the type was a "milder form of..." a type of psychopathy. Boy, you took that and ran with it! Nobody has labelled YOU, it has only been pointed out the patterns of words and behaviors inferred from those words.

Indeed, our vibrations do not match because I don't make leaps of assumption without something on which to base them. And in this case, I noted that it walked and swam like a duck, and now there is a quack. I think it's a duck.

 

[Carl]

Because, not all material is worth reading, for one.

Two, just because your way works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone or even anyone else. And sometimes I don't have a map so I ask for one OR gasp, I have a map but can't make sense of it and I ask for help reading the map. Again, not everyone learns or processes data in the same ways, as you clearly know.

I'm intrigued by everything here. I'm just trying to make sense of it in a way that I can understand. I did not say I was not going to read anything suggested. Far from it.

I think you're missing the point that a massive amount of time and effort has gone in to distilling the most useful information from the morass of data out there. You also perhaps fail to understand that each person really does need to do a LOT of work/reading on their own if they aspire to really understanding anything. The point being, even if the amount of suggested reading material seems overwhelming to you, it really is necessary to try and start reading some of it, perhaps the topics that most interest you. No one expects you to read everything on everything, but if you are asking questions on a specific topic, and someone suggests you read a book on that topic, it's not just any old book but a book that we have determined is the best on that particular topic.

Laura's work is a little different in that it offers much more "bang for your buck" so to speak because she has distilled information from many different fields into one book.

I truly hear you but I must say again that not everyone learns in the same way or processes information the same. I need summaries, the BIG picture, and then I work down to details. I know that is confounded by the large amount of information here. I get it.

Many works are multi-dicinplinary, as you know, but I am aware that Laura's works are exceptionally expansive.

This discussion has really helped me to clarify what I was/am looking for. It's not just the details of the work, although, those are the bricks of it all, but I'm deeply interested in how the work manifests in the lives of the members- what you do with it day to day, how you interact with your families about it if they are not as committed, how you maintain happiness in your lives when you are so acutely aware of the psychopaths all around us. I could go on but I'll stop there.

Thanks everyone.

It just does not work that way at all. You expect to be given a top down, pre-packaged, abstracted world view or summary, which you'll inevitably evaluate based on your current understanding, and learn nothing from it.

Seriously dude (apologies if you're female), just take some time out and get reading. There is no feeling quite like reading a book, getting some insight, then reading another and seeing how they fit together. Each bit of knowledge adds to the picture, and this is what the joy of learning is all about.

Sometimes I'm frustrated, because in the year-and-a-bit that I've been here, by understanding has grown immensely, yet it's very hard to put into words. In discussions with people, you often have to try and condense your knowledge. It is actually really difficult to do that, and anyone who thinks ideas can be condensed like that has no appreciation for knowledge and learning. Things are a lot more complex that can be stated in so many words, and the devil really IS in the details.

There are so many dimensions to things, and it always takes application of the "Law of three". So maybe just slow down a bit, keep learning, and enjoy the journey :) .

 

[history]

I truly hear you but I must say again that not everyone learns in the same way or processes information the same. I need summaries, the BIG picture, and then I work down to details. I know that is confounded by the large amount of information here. I get it.

Many works are multi-dicinplinary, as you know, but I am aware that Laura's works are exceptionally expansive.

Then you should know that you aren't going to get a top down summary from me. As Ark says repeatedly, "The Devil is in the details" and that is OH, so TRUE.

I've told the story before somewhere on the forum, but I'll retell it for you. Years ago, my 12 yr old daughter had a friend over and they were at the table in the kitchen while I was cooking. They decided to go in the pool and got up to go put their suits on. As they were getting up, my daughter's friend asked some sort of question that I can't even recall and my daughter hissed at her "For god's sake, don't ask MY mom a question... we'll be here all day!"

So, nope, don't expect summaries from me. I'm incapable of them. I ask other people to do them for me and then I bite my tongue when I see all the stuff they are leaving out.

LOL. You made me laugh in a really GOOD way. Great answer!!! Thank you!

I wasn't asking you, Laura, for summaries and maybe that wasn't fully accurate either. See below.

This discussion has really helped me to clarify what I was/am looking for. It's not just the details of the work, although, those are the bricks of it all, but I'm deeply interested in how the work manifests in the lives of the members- what you do with it day to day, how you interact with your families about it if they are not as committed, how you maintain happiness in your lives when you are so acutely aware of the psychopaths all around us. I could go on but I'll stop there.

Thanks everyone.

But you didn't ask any such questions at all. Based on the topic of the thread, the way you brought in your question, it was inferred by everyone, I think, that your questions had to do with material. NOW you say that your questions have to do with how the work manifests in the lives of the members... day to day... families, etc. So it strikes me that your interaction on this topic has been rather manipulative even if that was not your intention. As the Cs always said, they cannot give an answer to a question that is not a real question. It's the old GIGO problem. The ability to really ASK a question is as important as the desire to know something. In point of fact, at this moment, after your allegedly "satisfactory discussion", you actually do not know anything about what people do from day to day, how they interact with their families, how they maintain happiness etc. Discussions of all those sorts of things are all over the forum but, again, as the Cs say, no pain, no gain. There is NO FREE LUNCH IN THE COSMOS. If you think there is, then YOU are lunch.

No, I didn't and they came to me as I was going through this thread. Isn't that what thought is all about? Process??? I am interested in many aspects of many things. Aren't we all, meaning everyone here?

This is what shifted my question in a way that you think is so dramatic:

"I don't know that any of that applies to you, but what is obvious is that since you do not approve of what you think you see going on here, you want to make sure that others don't approve of it either. That's an interesting thing. You are basically taking it upon yourself to determine what others should or shouldn't do or think or be exposed to or understand. What type of insecurity leads to that type of thinking and behavior? What other people choose to do with their minds and time and lives is really no concern of yours, nor of anyone other than the singular person who makes the choice.

People who go around trying to save others from themselves have always struck me as rather tragic, since not only do they not respect Free Will, but they inevitably end up bitter, angry and a bit bent from the effort of trying to bend the Universe (and others) to their will - to their world view. I think that says more than anything else.

There are many, many things that go on in this world that upset me and that I deeply disagree with - yet - I don't go to the forums that support such things and try to save people from themselves or stop them from doing it or rage against the person that I perceive as their "leader" because it's their life, not mine, and who the heck am I to try to save them from something they want to do? But, as always, human beings are interesting things and you're providing an example of that in real time for anyone interested in observing your particular facet of the interesting and often tragic stone that is human psychology."


There was ZERO manipulation, maybe confusion in how to ask what I was asking or in my knowing exactly what I was asking as I was working towards the multiple parts of my question/s as new information came in but there was zero intention to distort my true motives. And please keep in mind that I am reading other threads here that influence how I shift in my understanding of what goes on here too.

I've acknowledged at least twice that there is no free lunch. I'll add further that I'm pretty sure I AM the lunch. Oh, and the details are the tastiest parts!

Thanks Laura!

:)

 

[history]

It just does not work that way at all. You expect to be given a top down, pre-packaged, abstracted world view or summary, which you'll inevitably evaluate based on your current understanding, and learn nothing from it.

Seriously dude (apologies if you're female), just take some time out and get reading. There is no feeling quite like reading a book, getting some insight, then reading another and seeing how they fit together. Each bit of knowledge adds to the picture, and this is what the joy of learning is all about.

Sometimes I'm frustrated, because in the year-and-a-bit that I've been here, by understanding has grown immensely, yet it's very hard to put into words. In discussions with people, you often have to try and condense your knowledge. It is actually really difficult to do that, and anyone who thinks ideas can be condensed like that has no appreciation for knowledge and learning. Things are a lot more complex that can be stated in so many words, and the devil really IS in the details.

There are so many dimensions to things, and it always takes application of the "Law of three". So maybe just slow down a bit, keep learning, and enjoy the journey :) .
[/quote]


I just watched a 2.5 hour interview with Laura from 2010 which was basically a top down, pre-packaged, abstracted world view or summary of Laura's work in her own words. (I would have never called it that but for dramatic effect here ;)

And this is where I was coming from, BTW:

"In discussions with people, you often have to try and condense your knowledge."

I LOVE books. I have NO PROBLEM reading books. Really. I'm not sure why this has caused such offence. I was just trying to engage. I apologize if I did so incorrectly.