Are the C's really Lizards?

[Laura]

No, I didn't and they came to me as I was going through this thread. Isn't that what thought is all about?

So say some. But I'm not sure that thought is what it is cracked up to be. Most of our "thinking" is just running programs. It takes a whole lot of effort to actually think. What you may be referring to is a more or less subconscious System 1 reaction for which you have now created a narrative.

Process??? I am interested in many aspects of many things. Aren't we all, meaning everyone here?

This is what shifted my question in a way that you think is so dramatic:

"I don't know that any of that applies to you, but what is obvious is that since you do not approve of what you think you see going on here, you want to make sure that others don't approve of it either. That's an interesting thing. You are basically taking it upon yourself to determine what others should or shouldn't do or think or be exposed to or understand. What type of insecurity leads to that type of thinking and behavior? What other people choose to do with their minds and time and lives is really no concern of yours, nor of anyone other than the singular person who makes the choice.

People who go around trying to save others from themselves have always struck me as rather tragic, since not only do they not respect Free Will, but they inevitably end up bitter, angry and a bit bent from the effort of trying to bend the Universe (and others) to their will - to their world view. I think that says more than anything else.

There are many, many things that go on in this world that upset me and that I deeply disagree with - yet - I don't go to the forums that support such things and try to save people from themselves or stop them from doing it or rage against the person that I perceive as their "leader" because it's their life, not mine, and who the heck am I to try to save them from something they want to do? But, as always, human beings are interesting things and you're providing an example of that in real time for anyone interested in observing your particular facet of the interesting and often tragic stone that is human psychology."


There was ZERO manipulation, maybe confusion in how to ask what I was asking or in my knowing exactly what I was asking as I was working towards the multiple parts of my question/s as new information came in but there was zero intention to distort my true motives. And please keep in mind that I am reading other threads here that influence how I shift in my understanding of what goes on here too.

I've acknowledged at least twice that there is no free lunch. I'll add further that I'm pretty sure I AM the lunch. Oh, and the details are the tastiest parts!

Thanks Laura!

:)

Yes, I see. And I see why what Anart wrote would have that effect on you because it does distill a bit the general approach we try to develop within ourselves; one where we do the best we can to overcome our own programs, the main one that we see as causing harm and pain to others being trying to determine their needs and interfering in their lives without being asked. You have just witnessed in real time the thought processes of someone who thinks that is how to do things. It reminds me of another incident with my kids. My mother was something of a control freak; everything had to be done her way or it was "wrong". Somehow, I managed to grow up without incorporating that in my thinking and when my kids came along, I decided that it was a lot more interesting and "correct" to help them develop along their own lines instead of trying to impose MY thing on them. For example, if I bought them a new toy or puzzle, I liked to give it to them and let THEM explore it and experiment with it without me telling them what to do with it. Heck, most of the times, they came up with far more creative uses than the thing was designed for. My mother was sitting with me one day during such a process and she asked me quietly "aren't you going to show them what to do with it?" I said "nope, it's theirs, they can do what they like and maybe I'll make a suggestion if I see they are having trouble, or if they ask, but no... they have way more fun discovering."

Well, my mother was rather shocked.

Some time later, we were having a little cook out and the kids were very little and they thought it was a fun idea to get up on the hood of the car and lie back on the windshield and make patterns of the clouds. So, that's what they were doing. They didn't want to come down when their hotdogs were ready so I gave each a hotdog (yes, in an evil bun with all the trimmings - I didn't know any better then!). They were eating and some catsup and relish squeezed out and fell on the car. It was white. So, I just got a napkin and wiped it off. My mother got totally agitated because I wouldn't make them get down ... they MIGHT spill some more catsup on the car - horror of horrors! I just told her "Mom, a hundred years from now that car will have rusted back into the ground... but what MIGHT last that long would be the ripple effects of those kids sitting there having a good time sitting on the car, eating their hotdogs and feeling loved. If they grow up feeling that way, they will pass it on to others and it might actually make a difference in the Universe a thousand years further on." My mother just looked at me as though I was crazy. Who in the world thought that loving feelings and happy, ordinary events in life were more important than keeping the car spotless???

So you see, this idea of allowing people to be as they are, but to give ALL to those who ask - if they are REALLY asking - is sort of the basis of what we do here. If someone comes and says: "I realize that I'm mechanical, help me..." we will do that. We will warn them that it is not easy, it is painful, and you have to pay a LOT and in advance. (And we don't mean money, we mean paying with your self-importance, your assumptions, your illusions and delusions and really working to find that one square inch of you that is real and building from there.)

 

[Laura]

The only reason of my posts is because there are always some in the canyon who secretly wish to get out, but don't know where to start. I have no problem throwing some ropes.

Hmmm... are you under the insane delusion that anybody has any difficulty clicking the X at the upper right corner of the screen in the event that there is anything about this forum that they do not like?

No, but are you under the delusion that thoughts disappear the moment you are leaving the website that implanted them in you? I think you of all people should understand the true power of thought (and I think you do). All wars ever created started not with a rifle, but a thought. Hell, I suspect that even the entire universe did. Imo, one needs to be more careful of the thoughts inside of one's head than the emotions inside of one's belly.<snip> clearly, our vibrations do not match.

I was just reading SOTT and there's this great article by William Blum about Hugo Chavez. It gives a perfect example of the kind of thinking that is infecting "lastrevolution":
http://www.sott.net/article/259603-The-Anti-Empire-Report-114-Chavez-socialism-and-the-end-of-the-world

Some people are so afraid of the very idea of Free Will, of personal freedom, that they will use any means to defame it as an idea including reversive blockade and paramoralisms, of which we have seen several examples from "lastrevolution." I even find his forum moniker curious.

One wonders, of course, if that is why I have been under such relentless attack for so many years now? Obviously, I'm not in the same league with such as Hugo Chavez nor do I wish to change the world or lead a revolution. I simply got pissed off when I was sharing my work and thoughts with others who might be interested and a gang came along and decided that I was dangerous so I started pointing out the ways that such people operate, exposing them, and helping others to see the man behind the curtain. Freedom of thought and conscience is obviously a terrifying idea to those who wish to control others because certainly, that IS what it is about: control of others, feeling raw power. Which brings to mind another interesting book I've read recently: "Power: A Radical View" by sociologist, Steven Lukes. As we see from the article linked above, this kind of thinking must be very common to certain types of individuals and we've just been allowed a peek inside such a mind.

No, lastrevolution, clearly our vibrations don't match. Not at all.

 

[Joe]

This is what shifted my question in a way that you think is so dramatic:

"I don't know that any of that applies to you, but what is obvious is that since you do not approve of what you think you see going on here, you want to make sure that others don't approve of it either. That's an interesting thing. You are basically taking it upon yourself to determine what others should or shouldn't do or think or be exposed to or understand. What type of insecurity leads to that type of thinking and behavior? What other people choose to do with their minds and time and lives is really no concern of yours, nor of anyone other than the singular person who makes the choice.

People who go around trying to save others from themselves have always struck me as rather tragic, since not only do they not respect Free Will, but they inevitably end up bitter, angry and a bit bent from the effort of trying to bend the Universe (and others) to their will - to their world view. I think that says more than anything else.

There are many, many things that go on in this world that upset me and that I deeply disagree with - yet - I don't go to the forums that support such things and try to save people from themselves or stop them from doing it or rage against the person that I perceive as their "leader" because it's their life, not mine, and who the heck am I to try to save them from something they want to do? But, as always, human beings are interesting things and you're providing an example of that in real time for anyone interested in observing your particular facet of the interesting and often tragic stone that is human psychology."

There was ZERO manipulation, maybe confusion in how to ask what I was asking or in my knowing exactly what I was asking as I was working towards the multiple parts of my question/s as new information came in but there was zero intention to distort my true motives. And please keep in mind that I am reading other threads here that influence how I shift in my understanding of what goes on here too.

I've acknowledged at least twice that there is no free lunch. I'll add further that I'm pretty sure I AM the lunch. Oh, and the details are the tastiest parts!

You realise that the above post by Anart was in response to "Last Revolution", right?

 

[history]

This is what shifted my question in a way that you think is so dramatic:

"I don't know that any of that applies to you, but what is obvious is that since you do not approve of what you think you see going on here, you want to make sure that others don't approve of it either. That's an interesting thing. You are basically taking it upon yourself to determine what others should or shouldn't do or think or be exposed to or understand. What type of insecurity leads to that type of thinking and behavior? What other people choose to do with their minds and time and lives is really no concern of yours, nor of anyone other than the singular person who makes the choice.

People who go around trying to save others from themselves have always struck me as rather tragic, since not only do they not respect Free Will, but they inevitably end up bitter, angry and a bit bent from the effort of trying to bend the Universe (and others) to their will - to their world view. I think that says more than anything else.

There are many, many things that go on in this world that upset me and that I deeply disagree with - yet - I don't go to the forums that support such things and try to save people from themselves or stop them from doing it or rage against the person that I perceive as their "leader" because it's their life, not mine, and who the heck am I to try to save them from something they want to do? But, as always, human beings are interesting things and you're providing an example of that in real time for anyone interested in observing your particular facet of the interesting and often tragic stone that is human psychology."

There was ZERO manipulation, maybe confusion in how to ask what I was asking or in my knowing exactly what I was asking as I was working towards the multiple parts of my question/s as new information came in but there was zero intention to distort my true motives. And please keep in mind that I am reading other threads here that influence how I shift in my understanding of what goes on here too.

I've acknowledged at least twice that there is no free lunch. I'll add further that I'm pretty sure I AM the lunch. Oh, and the details are the tastiest parts!

You realise that the above post by Anart was in response to "Last Revolution", right?

Yes, I knew that wasn't to me but I believe Laura said something about unintentional manipulation to me so I was responding to that. And Anart's post touched me regardless because I am working on Free Will for sure.

And isn't there a measure of what is discussed here a take it or leave it approach, which certainly is Free Will the way I understand it to date (I probably don't understand it much at all actually), but at the same time, if you don't like what we say or how we say it then go somewhere else? I get that that is Free Will but isn't it at the same time, kinda like our way or the highway and we are smarter than you because we know something you don't and you can't play with us because you just don't get it, is it not?

I am NOT looking for a fight. This is a genuine question, please.

:)

 

[Joe]

And isn't there a measure of what is discussed here a take it or leave it approach, which certainly is Free Will the way I understand it to date (I probably don't understand it much at all actually), but at the same time, if you don't like what we say or how we say it then go somewhere else? I get that that is Free Will but isn't it at the same time, kinda like our way or the highway and we are smarter than you because we know something you don't and you can't play with us because you just don't get it, is it not?

We never tell people they can't "play" with us because they don't get it. We only say that when they insist that they DO get it and we don't, and try and get us to see it from their perspective when we don't see it that way.

 

[history]

And isn't there a measure of what is discussed here a take it or leave it approach, which certainly is Free Will the way I understand it to date (I probably don't understand it much at all actually), but at the same time, if you don't like what we say or how we say it then go somewhere else? I get that that is Free Will but isn't it at the same time, kinda like our way or the highway and we are smarter than you because we know something you don't and you can't play with us because you just don't get it, is it not?

We never tell people they can't "play" with us because they don't get it. We only say that when they insist that they DO get it and we don't, and try and get us to see it from their perspective when we don't see it that way.

Fair enough !!

:P

 

[Psalehesost]

I need summaries, the BIG picture, and then I work down to details. I know that is confounded by the large amount of information here. I get it.

Many works are multi-dicinplinary, as you know, but I am aware that Laura's works are exceptionally expansive.

This discussion has really helped me to clarify what I was/am looking for. It's not just the details of the work, although, those are the bricks of it all, but I'm deeply interested in how the work manifests in the lives of the members- what you do with it day to day, how you interact with your families about it if they are not as committed, how you maintain happiness in your lives when you are so acutely aware of the psychopaths all around us. I could go on but I'll stop there.

Thanks everyone.

I'm not going to attempt a complete answer to the above, but rather try to give some general - and by necessity, personal - perspective, given what you describe.

I've found that studying many things in parallel works well for myself - often I dig into a couple of things at once, get a sense of a general picture and connect some dots, and then those subjects may be left for some time.

I have dozens of books to read - and some end up unread for a long time; some I have been unable to get through, as I find I don't yet understand/connect things well enough - there's no point reading if all that happens is temporarily memorizing a few details, of which most are soon lost.

So I read, at any one time, a bunch of books that I cycle between, of which some overlap in subject and/or through the connections made. (These connections may be unexpected, and may become rather broad.) So there are at least a few broader areas of knowledge tackled at once. And the more useful sources there are at once for gaining insight, the better - as the more connections are made, the better knowledge is retained, and the more depth and "life" it acquires. Including the details integrated into the big picture.

Another thing: It is helpful to connect things studied in a more personal way. From specific subjects related to your own life (in any of a number of ways), to more generally applicable subjects such as psychology, psychological experiences and issues, and methods of working to deal with them. There are tons of threads on the forum where members discuss various issues, ongoing experiences related to them, and/or the theory and/or practice of dealing with them. (See e.g. the psychology section and the "The Work" section - and once you've made a few more posts, "The Swamp".) More generally, the experience of living in this world, what we face and the impact it has, the resons for and the history of it, are also discussed from plenty of perspectives and in plenty of concrete situations all over the forum.

 

[history]

I need summaries, the BIG picture, and then I work down to details. I know that is confounded by the large amount of information here. I get it.

Many works are multi-dicinplinary, as you know, but I am aware that Laura's works are exceptionally expansive.

This discussion has really helped me to clarify what I was/am looking for. It's not just the details of the work, although, those are the bricks of it all, but I'm deeply interested in how the work manifests in the lives of the members- what you do with it day to day, how you interact with your families about it if they are not as committed, how you maintain happiness in your lives when you are so acutely aware of the psychopaths all around us. I could go on but I'll stop there.

Thanks everyone.

I'm not going to attempt a complete answer to the above, but rather try to give some general - and by necessity, personal - perspective, given what you describe.

I've found that studying many things in parallel works well for myself - often I dig into a couple of things at once, get a sense of a general picture and connect some dots, and then those subjects may be left for some time.

I have dozens of books to read - and some end up unread for a long time; some I have been unable to get through, as I find I don't yet understand/connect things well enough - there's no point reading if all that happens is temporarily memorizing a few details, of which most are soon lost.

So I read, at any one time, a bunch of books that I cycle between, of which some overlap in subject and/or through the connections made. (These connections may be unexpected, and may become rather broad.) So there are at least a few broader areas of knowledge tackled at once. And the more useful sources there are at once for gaining insight, the better - as the more connections are made, the better knowledge is retained, and the more depth and "life" it acquires. Including the details integrated into the big picture.

Another thing: It is helpful to connect things studied in a more personal way. From specific subjects related to your own life (in any of a number of ways), to more generally applicable subjects such as psychology, psychological experiences and issues, and methods of working to deal with them. There are tons of threads on the forum where members discuss various issues, ongoing experiences related to them, and/or the theory and/or practice of dealing with them. (See e.g. the psychology section and the "The Work" section - and once you've made a few more posts, "The Swamp".) More generally, the experience of living in this world, what we face and the impact it has, the resons for and the history of it, are also discussed from plenty of perspectives and in plenty of concrete situations all over the forum.

Thank you, Psalehesost, this is most helpful and actually A LOT how I read and make sense of it all. I have many books and publications going at the same time and most are in the same subject areas, psychology, sociology, anthropology, history, archeology, neurobiology, cognitive ethology, etc.

I realize my branch off from my original "question" was not well thought out and in too quick a response to something that resonated but didn't have time to settle in. I was foolish because it's obvious to anyone who even stops by here for a minute that there are numerous threads detailing the practices of the theories discussed here. My error.

Thanks again !!

What is the Swamp and how do I find my way in???

;)

 

[Mr. Premise]

What is the Swamp and how do I find my way in???

;)

The Swamp is an area where you can discuss issues you don't want to be public. To access it I believe you have to have 50 posts. Which it looks like you just reached.

 

[history]

What is the Swamp and how do I find my way in???

;)

The Swamp is an area where you can discuss issues you don't want to be public. To access it I believe you have to have 50 posts. Which it looks like you just reached.

Cool.

Is there something I must do other than that to access?

 

[Psalehesost]

What is the Swamp and how do I find my way in???

;)

The Swamp is an area where you can discuss issues you don't want to be public. To access it I believe you have to have 50 posts. Which it looks like you just reached.

Cool.

Is there something I must do other than that to access?

Just check the forum index and it should be listed, under "The Work".

 

[history]

What is the Swamp and how do I find my way in???

;)

The Swamp is an area where you can discuss issues you don't want to be public. To access it I believe you have to have 50 posts. Which it looks like you just reached.

Cool.

Is there something I must do other than that to access?

Just check the forum index and it should be listed, under "The Work".

Got it. Very interesting indeed !!!

Thanks !

 

[Laura]

And isn't there a measure of what is discussed here a take it or leave it approach, which certainly is Free Will the way I understand it to date (I probably don't understand it much at all actually), but at the same time, if you don't like what we say or how we say it then go somewhere else? I get that that is Free Will but isn't it at the same time, kinda like our way or the highway and we are smarter than you because we know something you don't and you can't play with us because you just don't get it, is it not?

We never tell people they can't "play" with us because they don't get it. We only say that when they insist that they DO get it and we don't, and try and get us to see it from their perspective when we don't see it that way.

Fair enough !!

:P

But we do tell people the rules about how to play and the acceptable topics. All that is described in the Forum Guidelines. And, as we have noted often enough, you don't go to a chess club and demand that the members change over to backgammon or knitting.

 

[MikaelYosef]

Some time later, we were having a little cook out and the kids were very little and they thought it was a fun idea to get up on the hood of the car and lie back on the windshield and make patterns of the clouds. So, that's what they were doing. They didn't want to come down when their hotdogs were ready so I gave each a hotdog (yes, in an evil bun with all the trimmings - I didn't know any better then!). They were eating and some catsup and relish squeezed out and fell on the car. It was white. So, I just got a napkin and wiped it off. My mother got totally agitated because I wouldn't make them get down ... they MIGHT spill some more catsup on the car - horror of horrors! I just told her "Mom, a hundred years from now that car will have rusted back into the ground... but what MIGHT last that long would be the ripple effects of those kids sitting there having a good time sitting on the car, eating their hotdogs and feeling loved. If they grow up feeling that way, they will pass it on to others and it might actually make a difference in the Universe a thousand years further on."

Not to de-rail this topic (although perhaps it needs it?) - I really like that way of thinking. One good deed now has the potential for significant amplification in the future. It could be that 'one spark that gets the fire going'.

 

[Laura]

Some time later, we were having a little cook out and the kids were very little and they thought it was a fun idea to get up on the hood of the car and lie back on the windshield and make patterns of the clouds. So, that's what they were doing. They didn't want to come down when their hotdogs were ready so I gave each a hotdog (yes, in an evil bun with all the trimmings - I didn't know any better then!). They were eating and some catsup and relish squeezed out and fell on the car. It was white. So, I just got a napkin and wiped it off. My mother got totally agitated because I wouldn't make them get down ... they MIGHT spill some more catsup on the car - horror of horrors! I just told her "Mom, a hundred years from now that car will have rusted back into the ground... but what MIGHT last that long would be the ripple effects of those kids sitting there having a good time sitting on the car, eating their hotdogs and feeling loved. If they grow up feeling that way, they will pass it on to others and it might actually make a difference in the Universe a thousand years further on."

Not to de-rail this topic (although perhaps it needs it?) - I really like that way of thinking. One good deed now has the potential for significant amplification in the future. It could be that 'one spark that gets the fire going'.

This is one of our major concepts: that we CAN make a difference if we have sufficient knowledge at a given moment to make a real choice for change. It may not be a big thing to the eyes of others, but nonlinear dynamics tell us that sometimes a very small change, the most a human being can effect in their lives, can have profound results down the road, for good or evil.

Ya'll might want to have a look at this for another aspect/angle: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,30741.msg403705.html