'Arktos: The Polar Myth' and 'The Wave Book 1: Chapter 3'

[Novelis]

Hello, I’m not sure if this is the right place to point out this problem, so feel free to move it to a more appropriate location.

Right, so there we were, translating the Wave Book 1: Chapter 3, when we came across this:

[quote author=Laura Knight: The Wave Book 1: Chapter 3: P.64]The memory or imagination of a Golden Age seems to be a particularity of the cultures that cover the area from India to Northern Europe. In the Americas, the most fully developed mythologies of history were those of the Maya and Aztecs, for whom there was no past era unclouded by the threat of cyclical destruction by fire or flood. Nor does the philosophy of Buddhism have any place for nostalgia, although in practice it absorbed the idea of declining ages from its Indian surroundings. But in the ancient Middle East there is an obvious relic of the Golden Age in Genesis, as the Garden of Eden where humanity walked with the gods before the Fall.

The Egyptians spoke of past epochs ruled by god-kings. Babylonian mythology, as reported by Berossos, had a scheme of three ages, each lasting while the vernal equinox precessed through four signs of the zodiac; the first of these, under the dominion of Anu, was a Golden Age, ended by the Flood. The Iranian Avesta texts tell of the thousand-year Golden Reign of Yima, the first man and the first king, under whose rule cold and heat, old age, death and sickness were unknown.

The most fully developed theory of this kind, and probably the oldest one, is the Hindu doctrine of the Four Yugas. A contemporary scholar, Joscelyn Godwin, describes the first of these ages in Arktos: The Polar Myth (Adventures Unlimited Press, 1996):

In the first Krita Yuga, after the creation of the Earth, Brahman created a thousand pairs of twins from his mouth, breast, thighs, and feet respectively. They lived without houses; all desires that they conceived were directly fulfilled; and the Earth produced of itself delicious food for them, since animals and plants were not yet in existence. Each pair of twins brought forth at the end of their life a pair exactly like them. As everybody did his duty and nothing else, there was no distinction between good and bad acts.

After the Krita or Satya Yuga, things get progressively worse: each successive yuga sees the human race falling into increasing unhappiness and evil, until at the end of the Kali Yuga, the world is set on fire, deluged with water, and then reborn.

I have written elsewhere about the Cassiopaean story of the legendary “Fall” from Eden. Apparently, this was also the last time The Wave was here — 309,882 years ago (counted back from 1994).[/quote]

Now, with all the historical and technical terminology, we had a very difficult time trying to translate the above into Chinese, so we decided to google a section of the text to look for some background information. We googled the following:

“babylonian mythology Golden Reign of Yima”

I was surprised with the outcome of the search, since it directed us towards an extensive quote in the book ‘Arktos: The Polar Myth in Science, Symbolism, and Nazi Survival’, By author ‘Joscelyn Godwin’, where it reads:

[quote author= Joscelyn Godwin: Arktos: P.16]The Cycle of The Ages

The memory or imagination of a Golden Age seems to be a particularity of the cultures that cover the area from India to Northern Europe2. In the Americas, the most fully developed mythologies of history were those of the Maya and Aztecs, for whom there was no past era unclouded by the threat of cyclical destruction by fire or flood. Nor does the philosophy of Buddhism have any place for nostalgia, although in practice it absorbed the idea of declining ages from its Indian surroundings. But in the ancient Middle East there is an obvious relic of the Golden Age in Genesis, as the Garden of Eden where humanity walked with the gods before the Fall.

The Egyptians spoke of past epochs ruled by god-kings. Babylonian mythology, as reported by Berossos, had a scheme of three ages, each lasting while the vernal equinox precessed through four signs of the zodiac; the first of these, under the dominion of Anu, was a Golden Age, ended by the Flood. The Iranian Avesta texts tell of the thousand-year Golden Reign of Yima, the first man and the first king, under whose rule cold and heat, old age, death and sickness were unknown.

The most fully developed theory of this kind, and probably the oldest one, is the Hindu doctrine of the Four Yugas. The Sanskrit name for these four ages refer to their relative durations: Krita or Satya Yuga (four units), Treta Yuga (three), Dvapara Yuga (two), and Kali Yuga (one), the whole tenfold period making up one Mahayuga. A modern scholar thus describes the first of these ages:

In the first Krita Yuga, after the creation of the Earth, Brahman created a thousand pairs of twins from his mouth, breast, thighs, and feet respectively. They lived without houses; all desires that they conceived were directly fulfilled; and the Earth produced of itself delicious food for them, since animals and plants were not yet in existence. Each pair of twins brought forth at the end of their life a pair exactly like them. As everybody did his duty and nothing else, there was no distinction between good and bad acts.

After the Krita or Satya Yuga, things get progressively worse: each successive yuga sees the human race falling into increasing unhappiness and evil, until at the end of the Kali Yuga, the world is set on fire, deluged with water, and then reborn.[/quote]

Here is the link to the website in question:

_https://books.google.com.tw/books?id=26v0qQcI0vwC&pg=PA16&dq=babylonian+mythology+Golden+Reign+of+Yima&hl=zh-TW&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMI-o_TktnIyAIVwpKUCh1W3QEp#v=onepage&q=babylonian%20mythology%20Golden%20Reign%20of%20Yima&f=false

Now, as you can see, the part that is quoted in the Wave as coming from the work of Joscelyn Godwin is not the only part that has been directly lifted from the book, thus creating some confusion for me as to who wrote the section quoted above.

I noticed that in the Arktos version, there is a number 2 right after ‘Northern Europe’, so I started looking around for the footnote section of the book, and I eventually found it, saying:

[quote author= Joscelyn Godwin: Arktos: P.229]2. See “Ages of the World (Indian),” in Hastings 1. 183 – 210.[/quote]

Then I searched on the forum for this author and the word ‘Arktos’ and found quite a few hits, indicating that this author and his work is quite well known. Not to mention the fact that the Wave itself also says concerning him:

[quote author= Laura Knight: The Wave Book 1: Chapter 3: P.65]A contemporary scholar, Joscelyn Godwin, describes the first of these ages in Arktos: The Polar Myth (Adventures Unlimited Press, 1996):[/quote]

But if you look at the positioning of this reference, it only gives credit for his work in the quoted section in the ‘Arktos’ book (From: In the first Krita… To: …good and bad acts.) and not for everything else lifted from it.

My recommendation is putting the reference to Mr. Godwin’s book at the beginning of the where the Wave starts really starts quoting his work (From: The memory or imagination… To: …water, and then reborn.)

I know this is a minor detail, and to be fair, Laura does refer to Mr. Godwin’s work, but Laura didn’t give Mr. Godwin total credit for that entire section, and if I hadn’t looked it up for myself, I would have continued believing that the whole section was written by Laura and not Mr. Godwin!

I don’t want to look like I am splitting hairs over this detail, but even a minor point like this one can do some damage, no matter how small, to Laura’s distinguished credibility as a professional scholar.

For the Chinese translation, I have amended the Chinese text to the one I recommended above, and I think it will be wise to amend ‘The Wave Book 1: Chapter 3’ online and in print to put an end to the potential confusion/criticism.

Now, I know it’ll be harder to change ‘The Wave’ in print, but maybe this point can be kept in mind for future editions?

Thanks,
Robin

 

[Aeneas]

I looked in my edition of Arktos and found that the quote attributed to a modern scholar also has a footnote at the end of "....bad acts."This footnote refers to [H. Jacobi, "Ages of the World (Indian)," in Hastings I, 201.]

Hello, I’m not sure if this is the right place to point out this problem, so feel free to move it to a more appropriate location.

Right, so there we were, translating the Wave Book 1: Chapter 3, when we came across this:

[quote author=Laura Knight: The Wave Book 1: Chapter 3: P.64]The memory or imagination of a Golden Age seems to be a particularity of the cultures that cover the area from India to Northern Europe. In the Americas, the most fully developed mythologies of history were those of the Maya and Aztecs, for whom there was no past era unclouded by the threat of cyclical destruction by fire or flood. Nor does the philosophy of Buddhism have any place for nostalgia, although in practice it absorbed the idea of declining ages from its Indian surroundings. But in the ancient Middle East there is an obvious relic of the Golden Age in Genesis, as the Garden of Eden where humanity walked with the gods before the Fall.

The Egyptians spoke of past epochs ruled by god-kings. Babylonian mythology, as reported by Berossos, had a scheme of three ages, each lasting while the vernal equinox precessed through four signs of the zodiac; the first of these, under the dominion of Anu, was a Golden Age, ended by the Flood. The Iranian Avesta texts tell of the thousand-year Golden Reign of Yima, the first man and the first king, under whose rule cold and heat, old age, death and sickness were unknown.

The most fully developed theory of this kind, and probably the oldest one, is the Hindu doctrine of the Four Yugas. A contemporary scholar, Joscelyn Godwin, describes the first of these ages in Arktos: The Polar Myth (Adventures Unlimited Press, 1996):

In the first Krita Yuga, after the creation of the Earth, Brahman created a thousand pairs of twins from his mouth, breast, thighs, and feet respectively. They lived without houses; all desires that they conceived were directly fulfilled; and the Earth produced of itself delicious food for them, since animals and plants were not yet in existence. Each pair of twins brought forth at the end of their life a pair exactly like them. As everybody did his duty and nothing else, there was no distinction between good and bad acts.

After the Krita or Satya Yuga, things get progressively worse: each successive yuga sees the human race falling into increasing unhappiness and evil, until at the end of the Kali Yuga, the world is set on fire, deluged with water, and then reborn.

I have written elsewhere about the Cassiopaean story of the legendary “Fall” from Eden. Apparently, this was also the last time The Wave was here — 309,882 years ago (counted back from 1994).

Now, with all the historical and technical terminology, we had a very difficult time trying to translate the above into Chinese, so we decided to google a section of the text to look for some background information. We googled the following:

“babylonian mythology Golden Reign of Yima”

I was surprised with the outcome of the search, since it directed us towards an extensive quote in the book ‘Arktos: The Polar Myth in Science, Symbolism, and Nazi Survival’, By author ‘Joscelyn Godwin’, where it reads:

[quote author= Joscelyn Godwin: Arktos: P.16]The Cycle of The Ages

The memory or imagination of a Golden Age seems to be a particularity of the cultures that cover the area from India to Northern Europe2. In the Americas, the most fully developed mythologies of history were those of the Maya and Aztecs, for whom there was no past era unclouded by the threat of cyclical destruction by fire or flood. Nor does the philosophy of Buddhism have any place for nostalgia, although in practice it absorbed the idea of declining ages from its Indian surroundings. But in the ancient Middle East there is an obvious relic of the Golden Age in Genesis, as the Garden of Eden where humanity walked with the gods before the Fall.

The Egyptians spoke of past epochs ruled by god-kings. Babylonian mythology, as reported by Berossos, had a scheme of three ages, each lasting while the vernal equinox precessed through four signs of the zodiac; the first of these, under the dominion of Anu, was a Golden Age, ended by the Flood. The Iranian Avesta texts tell of the thousand-year Golden Reign of Yima, the first man and the first king, under whose rule cold and heat, old age, death and sickness were unknown.

The most fully developed theory of this kind, and probably the oldest one, is the Hindu doctrine of the Four Yugas. The Sanskrit name for these four ages refer to their relative durations: Krita or Satya Yuga (four units), Treta Yuga (three), Dvapara Yuga (two), and Kali Yuga (one), the whole tenfold period making up one Mahayuga. A modern scholar thus describes the first of these ages:

In the first Krita Yuga, after the creation of the Earth, Brahman created a thousand pairs of twins from his mouth, breast, thighs, and feet respectively. They lived without houses; all desires that they conceived were directly fulfilled; and the Earth produced of itself delicious food for them, since animals and plants were not yet in existence. Each pair of twins brought forth at the end of their life a pair exactly like them. As everybody did his duty and nothing else, there was no distinction between good and bad acts.

After the Krita or Satya Yuga, things get progressively worse: each successive yuga sees the human race falling into increasing unhappiness and evil, until at the end of the Kali Yuga, the world is set on fire, deluged with water, and then reborn.[/quote]

Here is the link to the website in question:

_https://books.google.com.tw/books?id=26v0qQcI0vwC&pg=PA16&dq=babylonian+mythology+Golden+Reign+of+Yima&hl=zh-TW&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMI-o_TktnIyAIVwpKUCh1W3QEp#v=onepage&q=babylonian%20mythology%20Golden%20Reign%20of%20Yima&f=false

Now, as you can see, the part that is quoted in the Wave as coming from the work of Joscelyn Godwin is not the only part that has been directly lifted from the book, thus creating some confusion for me as to who wrote the section quoted above.

I noticed that in the Arktos version, there is a number 2 right after ‘Northern Europe’, so I started looking around for the footnote section of the book, and I eventually found it, saying:

[quote author= Joscelyn Godwin: Arktos: P.229]2. See “Ages of the World (Indian),” in Hastings 1. 183 – 210.[/quote]

Then I searched on the forum for this author and the word ‘Arktos’ and found quite a few hits, indicating that this author and his work is quite well known. Not to mention the fact that the Wave itself also says concerning him:

[quote author= Laura Knight: The Wave Book 1: Chapter 3: P.65]A contemporary scholar, Joscelyn Godwin, describes the first of these ages in Arktos: The Polar Myth (Adventures Unlimited Press, 1996):[/quote]

But if you look at the positioning of this reference, it only gives credit for his work in the quoted section in the ‘Arktos’ book (From: In the first Krita… To: …good and bad acts.) and not for everything else lifted from it.

My recommendation is putting the reference to Mr. Godwin’s book at the beginning of the where the Wave starts really starts quoting his work (From: The memory or imagination… To: …water, and then reborn.)

I know this is a minor detail, and to be fair, Laura does refer to Mr. Godwin’s work, but Laura didn’t give Mr. Godwin total credit for that entire section, and if I hadn’t looked it up for myself, I would have continued believing that the whole section was written by Laura and not Mr. Godwin!

I don’t want to look like I am splitting hairs over this detail, but even a minor point like this one can do some damage, no matter how small, to Laura’s distinguished credibility as a professional scholar.

For the Chinese translation, I have amended the Chinese text to the one I recommended above, and I think it will be wise to amend ‘The Wave Book 1: Chapter 3’ online and in print to put an end to the potential confusion/criticism.

Now, I know it’ll be harder to change ‘The Wave’ in print, but maybe this point can be kept in mind for future editions?

Thanks,
Robin
[/quote]

 

[Novelis]

[quote author=Aeneas]I looked in my edition of Arktos and found that the quote attributed to a modern scholar also has a footnote at the end of "....bad acts."This footnote refers to [H. Jacobi, "Ages of the World (Indian)," in Hastings I, 201.][/quote]

Yeah, you're right, I missed that one!

Thanks

 

[Laura]

If it is a direct quote, it should be in quotes, which it usually is when it leaves my computer as a file. However, very often, quoted sections don't carry from one file format to another and someone has to do that by hand and since a number of people have worked on the text, there's no telling what it's doing now!

 

[yayan]

Here's the original online version of The Wave that put the quotation and reference correctly. Seems like things are mixed up when converting from html to other formats.


https://web.archive.org/web/20000902195121/http://cassiopaea.org/cass/wave3.htm

 

[Laura]

Here's the original online version of The Wave that put the quotation and reference correctly. Seems like things are mixed up when converting from html to other formats.


https://web.archive.org/web/20000902195121/http://cassiopaea.org/cass/wave3.htm

Yes, thanks for finding that. It gets even more complicated when websites get moved or when you go from the old html pages to wordpress. I can't keep up with it and rely on everyone to keep their eyes open for these kinds of things because I'm very careful to give proper credit and citations.

 

[Maat]

However, very often, quoted sections don't carry from one file format to another

Working in a translation team, I noticed that it's worst than that. Even in a single file, when the "changes track" is on, just a "save" can mess some paragraph's format. So the last one in the end of the process (in publish'R for example) must be very cautious about that. I think it's good to remind it to all who works on books because like Robin said it, just a format mistake can put in question the credibility.

 

[Laura]

However, very often, quoted sections don't carry from one file format to another

Working in a translation team, I noticed that it's worst than that. Even in a single file, when the "changes track" is on, just a "save" can mess some paragraph's format. So the last one in the end of the process (in publish'R for example) must be very cautious about that. I think it's good to remind it to all who works on books because like Robin said it, just a format mistake can put in question the credibility.

I'm just glad that Robin has sharp eyes and is meticulous.

 

[Jacques]

However, very often, quoted sections don't carry from one file format to another

Working in a translation team, I noticed that it's worst than that. Even in a single file, when the "changes track" is on, just a "save" can mess some paragraph's format. So the last one in the end of the process (in publish'R for example) must be very cautious about that. I think it's good to remind it to all who works on books because like Robin said it, just a format mistake can put in question the credibility.

I'm just glad that Robin has sharp eyes and is meticulous.

We will be very cautious about that for the new version of the Wave 1 in French.

Indeed thanks Robin and also Maat.

Thread bookmarked.

 

[Novelis]

It looks like the process of translation brings about certain benefits besides the obvious, namely that since one is effectively going through the text "with a fine tooth comb," a lot of these matters that wouldn't occur to readers become apparent to translators.

We are more than happy to keep it up and report any other anomalies should they pop up.

Thanks to everyone for clearing this up.

Cheers,
Robin

 

[Beau]

I fixed the newer online version so it gives proper attribution to the full quote: http://cassiopaea.org/2010/05/08/the-wave-chapter-3-dorothy-and-the-frog-prince-meet-flight-19-in-oz-or-i-dont-think-were-in-kansas-anymore/

 

[Novelis]

[quote author=Heimdallr]I fixed the newer online version so it gives proper attribution to the full quote: http://cassiopaea.org/2010/05/08/the-wave-chapter-3-dorothy-and-the-frog-prince-meet-flight-19-in-oz-or-i-dont-think-were-in-kansas-anymore/[/quote]

Not quite I’m afraid, if you’ll pardon my nit-picking.

On the amended ‘Wave Book 1: Chapter 3’ that you have linked above, it says the following:

[quote author=Laura Knight-Jadczyk]The most fully developed theory of this kind, and probably the oldest one, is the Hindu doctrine of the Four Yugas. A contemporary scholar, Joscelyn Godwin, describes the first of these ages in Arktos: The Polar Myth (Adventures Unlimited Press, 1996):[/quote]

Whereas the archived version, on https://web.archive.org/web/20000902195121/http://cassiopaea.org/cass/wave3.htm that yanz provided, this part of the text reads:

[quote author=Laura Knight-Jadczyk]The most fully developed theory of this kind, and probably the oldest one, is the Hindu doctrine of the Four Yugas. A contemporary scholar describes the first of these ages:[/quote]

This latter version is exactly the same as is in the book ‘Arktos’, so if the former text remains as it is above, then it will no longer be a direct quote.

I suggest changing the current online version so that it is exactly the same as the original version that yanz provided, where the citation is provided at the end of the "quote within the quote", if you see what I mean, like so:

[quote author=The Wave Book 1: Chapter 3]The memory or imagination of a Golden Age seems to be a particularity of the cultures that cover the area from India to Northern Europe. In the Americas, the most fully developed mythologies of history were those of the Mayas and Aztecs, for whom there was no past era unclouded by the threat of cyclical destruction by fire of flood. Nor does the philosophy of Buddhism have any place for nostalgia, although in practice it absorbed the idea of declining ages from its Indian surroundings. But in the ancient Middle East there is an obvious relic of the Golden Age in Genesis, as the Garden of Eden where humanity walked with the gods before the Fall. The Egyptians spoke of past epochs ruled by god-kings. Babylonian mythology, as reported by Berosus, had a scheme of three ages, each lasting while the vernal equinox precessed through four signs of the zodiac; the first of these, under the dominion of Anu, was a Golden Age, ended by the Flood. The Iranian Avesta texts tell of the thousand-year Golden Reign of Yima, the first man and the first king, under whose rule cold and heat, old age, death and sickness were unknown.

The most fully developed theory of this kind, and probably the oldest one, is the Hindu doctrine of the Four Yugas. A contemporary scholar describes the first of these ages:

In the first Krita Yuga, after the creation of the earth, Brahman created a thousand pairs of twins from his mouth, breast, thighs, and feet respectively. They lived without houses; all desires which they conceived were directly fulfilled; and the earth produced of itself delicious food for them, since animals and plants were not yet in existence. Each pair of twins brought forth at the end of their life a pair exactly like them. As everybody did his duty and nothing else, there was no distinction between good and bad acts.
After the Krita or Satya Yuga, things get progressively worse: each successive yuga sees the human race falling into increasing unhappiness and evil, until at the end of the Kali Yuga, the world is set on fire, deluged with water, and then reborn. [Joscelyn Godwin, Arktos,1996]

[/quote]

If I am to speculate as to what happened, I’d say that, at some point during the file formats change from the original version to the current one, the mechanism that indicates a quoted portion disappeared for this portion:

[quote author=The Wave Book 1: Chapter 3]The memory or imagination of a Golden Age seems to be a particularity of the cultures that cover the area from India to Northern Europe. In the Americas, the most fully developed mythologies of history were those of the Mayas and Aztecs, for whom there was no past era unclouded by the threat of cyclical destruction by fire of flood. Nor does the philosophy of Buddhism have any place for nostalgia, although in practice it absorbed the idea of declining ages from its Indian surroundings. But in the ancient Middle East there is an obvious relic of the Golden Age in Genesis, as the Garden of Eden where humanity walked with the gods before the Fall. The Egyptians spoke of past epochs ruled by god-kings. Babylonian mythology, as reported by Berosus, had a scheme of three ages, each lasting while the vernal equinox precessed through four signs of the zodiac; the first of these, under the dominion of Anu, was a Golden Age, ended by the Flood. The Iranian Avesta texts tell of the thousand-year Golden Reign of Yima, the first man and the first king, under whose rule cold and heat, old age, death and sickness were unknown.

The most fully developed theory of this kind, and probably the oldest one, is the Hindu doctrine of the Four Yugas. A contemporary scholar describes the first of these ages:[/quote]

But remained for this portion:

In the first Krita Yuga, after the creation of the earth, Brahman created a thousand pairs of twins from his mouth, breast, thighs, and feet respectively. They lived without houses; all desires which they conceived were directly fulfilled; and the earth produced of itself delicious food for them, since animals and plants were not yet in existence. Each pair of twins brought forth at the end of their life a pair exactly like them. As everybody did his duty and nothing else, there was no distinction between good and bad acts.
After the Krita or Satya Yuga, things get progressively worse: each successive yuga sees the human race falling into increasing unhappiness and evil, until at the end of the Kali Yuga, the world is set on fire, deluged with water, and then reborn. [Joscelyn Godwin, Arktos,1996]

This lead to someone thinking that the part which begins as ‘The memory or imagination…’ was written by Laura herself, so they must have modified the text to read:

[quote author=Laura Knight-Jadczyk]A contemporary scholar, Joscelyn Godwin, describes the first of these ages in Arktos: The Polar Myth (Adventures Unlimited Press, 1996):[/quote]

From:

[quote author=Laura Knight-Jadczyk]A contemporary scholar describes the first of these ages:[/quote]

What fun!

Anyway, the original archived version is what I have stuck to for the Chinese translation, and I think this should be the case for the current online version too.

Thanks,
Robin

 

[Beau]

Thanks Robin, I edited it and now everything looks the same.

 

[Novelis]

[quote author=Heimdallr]Thanks Robin, I edited it and now everything looks the same.[/quote]

Well, no, the original quoted citation, in full, says:

[quote author=The Wave Book 1: Chapter 3]The memory or imagination of a Golden Age seems to be a particularity of the cultures that cover the area from India to Northern Europe. In the Americas, the most fully developed mythologies of history were those of the Mayas and Aztecs, for whom there was no past era unclouded by the threat of cyclical destruction by fire of flood. Nor does the philosophy of Buddhism have any place for nostalgia, although in practice it absorbed the idea of declining ages from its Indian surroundings. But in the ancient Middle East there is an obvious relic of the Golden Age in Genesis, as the Garden of Eden where humanity walked with the gods before the Fall. The Egyptians spoke of past epochs ruled by god-kings. Babylonian mythology, as reported by Berosus, had a scheme of three ages, each lasting while the vernal equinox precessed through four signs of the zodiac; the first of these, under the dominion of Anu, was a Golden Age, ended by the Flood. The Iranian Avesta texts tell of the thousand-year Golden Reign of Yima, the first man and the first king, under whose rule cold and heat, old age, death and sickness were unknown.

The most fully developed theory of this kind, and probably the oldest one, is the Hindu doctrine of the Four Yugas. A contemporary scholar describes the first of these ages:

In the first Krita Yuga, after the creation of the earth, Brahman created a thousand pairs of twins from his mouth, breast, thighs, and feet respectively. They lived without houses; all desires which they conceived were directly fulfilled; and the earth produced of itself delicious food for them, since animals and plants were not yet in existence. Each pair of twins brought forth at the end of their life a pair exactly like them. As everybody did his duty and nothing else, there was no distinction between good and bad acts.

After the Krita or Satya Yuga, things get progressively worse: each successive yuga sees the human race falling into increasing unhappiness and evil, until at the end of the Kali Yuga, the world is set on fire, deluged with water, and then reborn. [Joscelyn Godwin, Arktos,1996]

[/quote]

However, in your amendment, there are two differences:

First, notice that since Laura is not only citing the J. Godwin (Arktos) source, but is also citing another source (H. Jacobi, Ages of the World) found within the J. Godwin source, as indicated by the footnote ‘3’ in the ‘Arktos’ book (See above, Aeneas’ comment), she provides the citation at the end of the entire portion that was directly lifted from the ‘Arktos’ book.

Wheras you have placed the citation just before the quote within the quote, or the H. Jacobi source:

[quote author=The Wave Book 1: Chapter 3]The most fully developed theory of this kind, and probably the oldest one, is the Hindu doctrine of the Four Yugas. A contemporary scholar describes the first of these ages in Arktos: The Polar Myth (Adventures Unlimited Press, 1996):

In the first Krita Yuga, after the creation of the Earth, Brahman created a thousand pairs of twins from his mouth, breast, thighs, and feet respectively. They lived without houses; all desires that they conceived were directly fulfilled; and the Earth produced of itself delicious food for them, since animals and plants were not yet in existence. Each pair of twins brought forth at the end of their life a pair exactly like them. As everybody did his duty and nothing else, there was no distinction between good and bad acts.

[/quote]

Second, you’ve neglected including the entire portion within quotes! So THIS part:

After the Krita or Satya Yuga, things get progressively worse: each successive yuga sees the human race falling into increasing unhappiness and evil, until at the end of the Kali Yuga, the world is set on fire, deluged with water, and then reborn.

Should be in quotes as well, indicating that Laura’s writing resumes at ‘I have written elsewhere…’ and not ‘After the Krita…’

While the second point looks like an obvious error, I would like to focus on the first point, because it appears that you didn't understand the essential point I was trying to convey, namely that if you change a direct quote, then it is no longer a direct quote!

when you position the citation in this way, it means the H. Jacobi (Ages of the World) source IS the J. Godwin (Arktos) source, because you have written the citation as…

[quote author= Heimdallr]A contemporary scholar describes the first of these ages in Arktos: The Polar Myth (Adventures Unlimited Press, 1996):[/quote]

…which indicates that the FOLLOWING is the J. Godwin (Arktos) quote.

Do you see what I mean? I apologise if the way I am writing makes this point unclear, maybe I have to write in a more considerate maner.

Anyway, I then realised that I wasn’t sure the “Proper” way to cite a source within another source, so I did a bit of research for some ideas, and I found:

[quote author=noodletools.com][MLA] How do I cite a source that is quoted in another source?

Scenario: You have read a journal article written by John Smith. In the article, John Smith quotes Jane Adams' book Chicken Little (which you have not used in your own research). You would like to quote Jane Adams in your own paper. MLA encourages you to find the original source and cite Jane Adams directly, since it helps you evaluate whether John Smith has accurately quoted and represented Jane Adams' ideas. However, if you don't have access to Chicken Little, you'll need to use an indirect reference (MLA 6.4.7).

Instructions:

Include an entry for the source you have in hand (in this case John Smith's journal article) in your reference list.

In your parenthetical (in-text) reference after the quote, credit the original source (in this case the Chicken Little book) adding the words "qtd. in" to show that your got the Adams quote from Smith and didn't verify it independently.

Here's how your indirect in-text reference will look:

...Adams asserts in her book Chicken Little that "without a doubt, the chicken came before the egg" (qtd. in J. Smith 21).[/quote]

_http://www.noodletools.com/helpdesk/kb/index.php?action=article&id=249&relid=2

I couldn’t find exactly the same situation as the one in our text, but the above website gave me an idea, so, if I may, this is how I think the citations ought to be arranged in this particular situation (I’ve highlighted the changes below):

The Myth of the Golden Age: a period when the Pole was “oriented” differently; when the seasons were different; the year was different. It was a primordial paradise where time had no meaning. Joscelyn Godwin in Arktos: The Polar Myth (Adventures Unlimited Press, 1996) explains:

The memory or imagination of a Golden Age seems to be a particularity of the cultures that cover the area from India to Northern Europe.

In the Americas, the most fully developed mythologies of history were those of the Maya and Aztecs, for whom there was no past era unclouded by the threat of cyclical destruction by fire or flood. Nor does the philosophy of Buddhism have any place for nostalgia, although in practice it absorbed the idea of declining ages from its Indian surroundings. But in the ancient Middle East there is an obvious relic of the Golden Age in Genesis, as the Garden of Eden where humanity walked with the gods before the Fall.

The Egyptians spoke of past epochs ruled by god-kings. Babylonian mythology, as reported by Berossos, had a scheme of three ages, each lasting while the vernal equinox precessed through four signs of the zodiac; the first of these, under the dominion of Anu, was a Golden Age, ended by the Flood. The Iranian Avesta texts tell of the thousand-year Golden Reign of Yima, the first man and the first king, under whose rule cold and heat, old age, death and sickness were unknown.

The most fully developed theory of this kind, and probably the oldest one, is the Hindu doctrine of the Four Yugas. A contemporary scholar describes the first of these ages:

In the first Krita Yuga, after the creation of the Earth, Brahman created a thousand pairs of twins from his mouth, breast, thighs, and feet respectively. They lived without houses; all desires that they conceived were directly fulfilled; and the Earth produced of itself delicious food for them, since animals and plants were not yet in existence. Each pair of twins brought forth at the end of their life a pair exactly like them. As everybody did his duty and nothing else, there was no distinction between good and bad acts.

After the Krita or Satya Yuga, things get progressively worse: each successive yuga sees the human race falling into increasing unhappiness and evil, until at the end of the Kali Yuga, the world is set on fire, deluged with water, and then reborn. [H. Jacobi, "Ages of the World (Indian)," in Hastings I, 201.]

If anyone has any other suggestions or has more experience than I do and in fact knows the correct/proper way of providing citations in this case, then please let me know.

Thanks a bunch,
Robin

 

[Laura]

I think that the way Robin has described it is how it ought to be done. I've had to deal with the citation problems again and again and again. It's particularly acute right now as we are dealing with entries in the Historical Events database.

Such errors are a vulnerability for attack which is why I've always been pretty careful about attributions. But, as we see, when these are denoted by text enhancements of one sort or another, such as you can do in html or in Word (or other type) docs, when you move a file from one format to another, you can lose everything in the way of enhancements!!!

Sometimes, if you are reading through a text that has lost its formatting, you can kind of figure out where the quote begins and ends, but not always.