Arrival (2016)

[Divide by Zero]

I just saw Arrival and was amazed.

The character development is great and so is the "action". Some may find it slow, but I doubt any of us here would.

Highly recommended, it makes Contact and 2001: A Space Oddysey a bit simplistic and boring now in hindsight.

It makes you wonder about language and how perhaps language works in 4d.


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The movie is based on this book:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Story_of_Your_Life

Dr. Louise Banks is enlisted by the military to communicate with a race of aliens, known as heptapods (due to their 7-pointed radially symmetrical appearance), after they initiate first contact with humanity. The story revolves around Dr. Banks, and woven through it are remembrances of her daughter.

The heptapods have two distinct forms of language. Heptapod A is their spoken language, which is described as having free word order and many levels of center-embedded clauses. Understanding Heptapod B, the written language of the aliens, is central to the plot. Unlike its spoken counterpart, Heptapod B has such complex structure that a single semantic symbol cannot be excluded without changing the entire meaning of a sentence.

When writing in Heptapod B, the writer knows how the sentence will end. The phenomenon of Heptapod B is explained by the aliens' understanding of mathematics and Fermat's principle of least time.

Dr. Banks's understanding of the heptapods' writing system affects the way she perceives time and suggests a deterministic universe where free will is exercised by not affecting the outcome of events. This is reflected by the tense used in the story's writing: a small portion of the story, at the beginning and the end, is written in the present tense, indicating that the story is being written at the time of the daughter's conception. The sections describing the interactions with the Heptapods are written in the past tense. The sections describing the daughter's life—from birth to death and beyond—are written as Dr. Banks' remembrances that she nonetheless describes using the future tense, because learning Heptapod B enables Dr. Banks to know her daughter's entire life even before she agrees to conceive her.

The first thing I was worried about was that these aliens were going to be a "savior" as it seemed at first with their friendly (yet difficulty to communicate). But it seems like as the C's, they couldn't just give the answer, but had to teach the one who could learn which was Dr. Banks.

So, in the movie the aliens tell her that a weapon is a gift. She tries to figure out what they mean while the rest of the world is preparing for war, started by China.
It turns out they meant technology. But what technology?? She finds out later that the technology is the language itself.

It reminds me of Laura's writing on language and how it sets up our way of seeing the world!

"Free will is exercised by not affecting the outcome of events"
Another amazing idea to ponder, which I have wondered in regards to time and causality. In that case, what is free will but to be conscious, aware, and objective of that reality? Could that be one of the "simple and karmic lessons" here?
It also sounds like the C's saying how we should sit back and enjoy the show. I don't think that is the same as the new age idea of everything is beautiful, etc. But this is the show we signed up for and it will be what it becomes.



I could only imagine that this idea could be a shadow of what 4d could bring.

 

[gdpetti]

"know her daughter's entire life..." :/ Shouldn't that be one possible version of her life?

 

[Divide by Zero]

Good point. Maybe the writer was thinking mathematically- that each version of us has already set into motion a certain "chain reaction" of causality.

I still wonder about time on this 3rd density being "solid" compared to a viewpoint of 4d/5d where the C's hint it as here we are tuning in to a specific timeline(?).

A good example would be the upcoming changes. Another "me" might not have even questioned reality/the world or was not in a world that was so twisted as this one is and not have the same thing happen as this "me" is part of.

I'm not saying predestination is solid, but maybe on a pure 3d level it is?

How does it connect to "fragmented soul unit", could that not just be with others, but with other versions of "me"?

 

[Sodajaxon]

We saw this last night and it was very interesting. I have not been able to stop thinking about it.
"They use Non Linear Orthography." Amy Adams says as Dr. Banks. This is a fascinating new concept for me.
I have been trying to learn Spanish over the past couple of years, and I am not learning as fast as want. I have not begun to think in Spanish,
I can read it, write it but to speak fluently, i am not there yet and it is frustrating. My friend Denise was confused by it. She said ' I don't get it, what a weird movie."
There are a lot of ideas in this movie, and it makes me think, 'what if crop-circles, are non linear orthography, like in this movie?'
If we humans could ever communicate they way heptapods do, we would be omni-present beings.

Here is very nice summary of the movie, caution there are spoilers.

"The alien language of the heptapods is nonlinear, written in circular puffs of smoke with no beginning or end. Information at the end of a sentence is known at the beginning, because they both exist at the same time. The entirety of the thought or sentiment is experienced at once, not in a progressive order." -
Shanee Edwardssheknows•November 11, 2016

Here is a link to her summary.
_https://www.yahoo.com/style/youre-confused-watching-em-arrival-023000309.html

 

[gdpetti]

Why would these 'aliens' show themselves to humans on Earth? Surely they would've checked out the transmissions and reckoned that dealing with humans here isn't the wise thing to do, especially in the USA given our high level of deluded exceptionalism... maybe they'd go visit some native peoples instead? What is the premise of how they show up? Why did they show up? :/

 

[neema]

Well it was an interesting story. Although I thought the main protagonist was a little selfish no?

I mean wasn't that the whole point of the "gift", to see and maybe make a different choice?

 

[Divide by Zero]

How would you think the protagonist was selfish? Maybe I missed something there... I could only assume that others learn the language too since it was decoded by her and other teams helped with it.

About choice, this movie has a different kind of philosophy.
We have post-modernism which gives an idea that nothing matters, go and do whatever you want.
Then we have a stoic kind of view which says that there is some sort of pre planned fate on higher levels and we cannot fathom how to change it, we just have to go with it and be the best we can be.

This movie is based on determinism, but not just a small scientific or mathematical problem, but this huge system of the planet/universe there is still probabilities that lead to a "final outcome".
In effect, you don't have the choice in reality of what happens. The only choice is accepting that what happens. It's kind of like when the C's say "Enjoy the show". Things will go as planned, and so on.

I sometimes think, what good is my own wants and needs in a bigger macro aspect of what happens. Maybe the only real choice we can do is observe? In quantum theory observation changes the "probability" wave into a solid outcome. But still we can't say what the specific outcome is.

 

[neema]

How would you think the protagonist was selfish? Maybe I missed something there... I could only assume that others learn the language too since it was decoded by her and other teams helped with it.

snip...

I sometimes think, what good is my own wants and needs in a bigger macro aspect of what happens. Maybe the only real choice we can do is observe? In quantum theory observation changes the "probability" wave into a solid outcome. But still we can't say what the specific outcome is.

I guess it’s hard for me to accept that there are no choices. IMO that kind of philosophy absolves responsibility. Sure, I can accept that there are some things that are beyond our understanding. But in the movie, the protagonist still chose not to tell the father about the possible outcome of them having a child together and what that would entail. I don’t think it was written in stone that she must have a child that would have a rare form of cancer. She could have chosen to postpone having a child or even chosen to look for a cure before even conceiving. The very least she could have informed the father to be, of the consequences so he would have the option too. There was a part in the movie where the child tells the mother that “dad doesn’t look at me the same way anymore”. So, she told him the potential future but after the fact which seems to have created suffering on him and the child. I think if he knew before hand, he may have made a different choice in having a child. Maybe I’m looking too much into it, but that’s why I think the protagonist was a little selfish.

 

[Divide by Zero]

I was thinking about that today with your seed idea!

If we knew the future, would we even have a choice? It's that confusion of the idea of some set future that she sees which might make her think (wrongly perhaps?) that it is set.
Who knows if the aliens used that to trick humanity into seeing a purely deterministic future that just happens.
Maybe the answer is neither, we don't have a set future and we don't change things- unless.....

She not knowing the real nitty gritty of the human mind, emotions, and consciousness- could have created a self fulfilling prophecy? Maybe if it were one of us, we would exercise the "higher emotional center" and go "no f'n way I'm going to settle and have a kid who has to suffer and die of cancer, just because it was fun getting to that point!" But then, the suffering would be on the memories of what would have been, unless that in itself changes her future? So many conundrums that the C's have warned us about 4d without objectivity. But here, what do we know is objective?

I feel that the higher emotional center is not just calm and clear, but it touches deep into the disappointment of the inevitable end of life as it is. Maybe that's why the C's can say "enjoy the show", while we "suffer".

Dostoyevsky wrote some interesting things on suffering and how it relates to consciousness, which also reminds me of what G said about conscious suffering.

In Notes from the Underground, hyper-consciousness distinguishes the Underground Man from the rest of the world. Cursed with acute-awareness, he can't act because consciousness causes him to believe that no action is truly justified. If a conscious man can't act, the argument goes, then he can't ever become anything. This notion of "the conscious man" is tied with "the intelligent man" and also "the decent man," so the concept carries both moral and intellectual implications. Although consciousness arises from suffering, allows for suffering, and necessitates suffering, it also makes possible free will and individuality. With consciousness, man must suffer, but without it, man will never be free.

 

[Woodsman]

I made of point of seeing this film, based on the interest here.

I liked the concept of non-linear language adoption opening up time sense. That was an intriguing idea I'd not encountered before.

The aliens

Why would these 'aliens' show themselves to humans on Earth? Surely they would've checked out the transmissions and reckoned that dealing with humans here isn't the wise thing to do, especially in the USA given our high level of deluded exceptionalism... maybe they'd go visit some native peoples instead? What is the premise of how they show up? Why did they show up? :/

The aliens, (spoiler), explain their interaction in this way... "We help humanity now because in 3000 years humanity help us." (paraphrasing because I can't recall the exact line.)

In terms of predestination and the fixed nature of time...

This film was not so very different from many other time-travel, or time-aware films. Film makers are in love with fixed outcomes! "K-PAX" to a lesser and "Mister Nobody" to a greater degree (to name just two examples which come to mind), promoted this same idea. It's annoying, because I think while there is something to it, they are lacking insight.

I definitely see repeating patterns in people's mechanical lives, but I also see how free will and decision making have an effect.

I think we are able to swap our relative position in pattern mechanics depending on our choices in behavior. Like.., if our lives are merry-go-rounds, we can pick where on the ride we stand. The same scenery goes around and around, but we can choose to ride the wooden hippo, or the wooden horse, or if we work our way far enough to the edge of the rotating tableaux, we can maybe climb up on top, or if we outgrow the ride, perhaps hop off altogether. Or we can descend deeper into the cycle where the grimy gears exist. But it is not as easy as simply moving where we will. The merry-go-round platform is crowded and we need to swap places with other people.

-Or perhaps a better metaphor is that we are all gears in a complicated pocket watch. If we want to advance through reality, we need to swap places with other gears, doing the job of each gear while in its position, paying the universe its due, but we are not locked in one specific spot if we decide to put in the effort required to move up through the gearworks to some other part where you don't bang your head each time you go around, but rather travel through sunbeams. Or maybe leave the system and become part of some other larger system which contains the watch.

I definitely notice that as the cycles in my life repeat, I see the same scenery go by, but it gets easier as I accumulate knowledge and experience and persistently make choices which tend toward graceful action rather than stubborn clinging or being mean and spiteful.

But speaking strictly of this film, "The Arrival", I disagree with the notion that everything is fixed. That doesn't line up with my own observations, or what we know about quantum behaviors, or what the C's say about predicting events.

 

[100c]

I watched this with my daughter over the weekend.
Pro: I enjoyed the acting and characters and the story of the main character's daughter. I loved the aliens and the mystery of them, in their gaseous atmosphere. I was relieved to see aliens that were intelligent, and not primal animals that scream and kill. The concept of focusing on language appealed to me. I loved the gravity tunnel.
Cons: the film makers relied too heavily on sound effects, rather than any character actions. The end result disappointed me. I did not have any desired outcome, but was disappointed by the aliens' ultimate motivation. As usual, I did not like the simplistic view of the world that hollywood always portrays.
Overall, I was disappointed, but glad it had some good aspects.

 

[Alejo]

I watched this and i thought it was quite enjoyable.

One of the concepts in enjoyed the most was the one of language, and how this changes the way you perceive the universe. Another one was the way cyclical time would work and how she could use future events to inform present ones. Future events that wouldn't have taken place without these present ones, So in a sense they both had already happened yet... they were both waiting for the other to happen. Very cool.

One of the biggest points i personally took from the movie was the concept of living without fear despite having certainty of pain. this was incredibly presented in her dreams of her future daughters' destiny. I felt that the message was somewhat presented to say that chances are you will experience pain, but you should not let that prevent you from living, and making choices.

Sometimes pain is due to mistakes, but mistakes turn into lessons and knowledge. Sometimes pain is due to life being what it is but that will also turn into lessons and knowledge. Suffering is inevitable, but part of the suffering is living the painful moment fully in order to assimilate appropriately whatever the lesson brings with itself.

And fear is what prevents you from going through this process of self discovery.

I might have looked to deeply into the movie. :P but i would definitely recommend it.

 

[Faith]

HI :) I watched this movie yesterday and got increasingly hooked while the story unfolded. I like the idea of an universal language that makes the enemy stereotypes obsolete, showing the human side of the Chinese antagonist for instance, the need for connectedness and networking, the symbolic nature of reality, all quite positive ideas. It's humanity that is a threat to itself in this scenario. I don't mean that our reality is exactly like it is expressed in this movie, it's not. There are certain aspects that might hint in the right direction. It just plays with unconventional ideas and concepts in a creative and for me at least touching way. I'd say its a movie for heart and mind.

I don't share the deterministic concept of "time" that seems to be used in this movie and in many other time travel stories, because it contradicts the open system and free will based universe, that I believe in, based on what I've learned so far. It is my understanding that unconscious and mechanical lifeforms are indeed part of a deterministic clockwork, unless there grows some awareness and free will here and there, which changes the predefined pattern of causality, disturbs destiny so to speak. In my imagination the extend of that disturbance depends on the level of access, the level of awareness. It's a disturbance in the force so to speak. So the whole sequence of causality might have a life of it's own with more or less changing probabilities in this or that instance. Event X will happen sooner or later because mechanical factors or certain conscious factors aiming on that outcome overweight in that instance or event y might happen because of two opposing forces and so on. Maybe the past changes as well and this life you are aware of is one branch of a multiversal pattern and you exist on many levels without realizing it. Maybe I'm completely nuts :P But it's fun to play with these ideas. I just wanted to throw in my crazy two cents.

 

[Rabelais]

Ted Chiang is one of the few modern writers of sci-fi who is actually a scientist, The Arrival is taken from his excellent collection of short stories, Stories of Your Life and Others, which is also the title of the story now known as Arrival. I downloaded the book to Kindle last August while the film was still in production, before the hard copy was available, and found the other works therein equally as thought provoking. Hopefully Chiang will continue to write. He has raised the bar on contemporary sci-fi.

Hats off to the director and producers of Arrival. They did the book justice.

_https://www.amazon.com/Stories-Your-Life-Others-Chiang-ebook/dp/B0048EKOP0/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1486934506&sr=1-1&keywords=ted+chiang

 

[Beau]

I thought it was excellent. You just don't see much modern science fiction that's original and fulfilling any more. The movie was certainly lifted by the fantastic lead performance by Amy Adams. But the story was also very intriguing IMO.