Article: Marines to Face Charges in Iraqi's Death by Seth Hettena

[Frank]

I'm perplexed at the notion of sending highly trained combat troops into a war zone and then charging them with murder! They are not police officers. They are in an environment where it is nearly impossible to distinguish friend from foe and their lives are in mortal danger all the time.

If we cannot stomach the realities of war, then we need not get ourselves involved in such activities. By this I mean we should be careful of the individuals we allow in government who speak and act on our behalf.

 

[domi]

I'm perplexed at the notion of sending highly trained combat troops into a war zone and then charging them with murder!

A different perspective:

I'm perplexed at the notion of sending an invasion force of highly trained combat troops into a foreign country to establish a war zone and then letting them get away with murder!

The "fog of war" is a very convenient cover for murder as history has shown. That doesn't make it right.

They are not police officers.

No, but the Katrina disaster shows that is no guarantee for restraint of force either.


Dominique.

 

[Frank]

I would say the the "Fog Of War" does not apply in this or similar incidents. This is the ugly reality of urban combat.

It is pure folly to attempt to meld military combat operations with police actions.

As i stated before, we must be careful of who is elected into positions of governmental power, especially war making powers.

What we see today is a combination of slick political "marketing" and voter apathy/ignorance!

The solution: Read the Constitution and then re-read it!

 

[salleles]

By this I mean we should be careful of the individuals we allow in government who speak and act on our behalf.

History has proven over and over that, no matter who is in charge, this kind of events occur. Thus, research might preferably (but not exclusively) be focussed on what's behind the scenes, Frank.

 

[Frank]

I think we know what's ultmately behind the scenes: the love of money and power. Follow the dollar, as it were.

But, ironically, the American experiment/ideal is the best prototype provided the electorate takes advanage of its educational system, cares enough to be involved in local and national governance, and holds elected officals responsible for the choices they make on behalf of the governed.

Most importantly, the governed must understand that they are the forth balance of power in this democracy.

 

[anart]

I think we know what's ultmately behind the scenes: the love of money and power. Follow the dollar, as it were.

But, ironically, the American experiment/ideal is the best prototype provided the electorate takes advanage of its educational system, cares enough to be involved in local and national governance, and holds elected officals responsible for the choices they make on behalf of the governed.

Most importantly, the governed must understand that they are the forth balance of power in this democracy.

Since you use the word ironically, I'm hoping that you are pointing these aspects of the 'prototype' out to show how far we are from that even being a possibility, but just in case...

I suppose my first question to you is why you think that the 'electorate' even has access to an educational system that will do anything other than ensure compliance and rudimentary thinking? I also wonder why you would think that the current system allows for any ability whatsoever to hold anyone 'responsible'? Votes aren't even counted, why in the world would the people in power even worry about what the 'electorate' has to say?

While I can agree that in theory, this 'prototype' just might work well, I'm afraid that the objective facts on the ground are as far away from the system you seem to be describing as the current administration is from any semblance of mental health. The 'electorate' in 2006 in the U.S. is powerless, voiceless, ignorant and afraid - just as they have been influenced to be. I wish this were not the case, but I can't really look at the situation in detail and come away with any other assessment.

If you were using 'ironically' to point out what I just elaborated on, sorry for the confusion - it seems Herr Bush's antics have 'gotten to me' more today than usual, and I'm being a bit 'serious' about things. ;)

 

[Mr. Premise]

It's not either/or. They should be charged with murder. They did commit murder. The war was illegal and they have the OBLIGATION (established since Nuremberg) not to follow illegal orders. The people all up the chain of command through Bush should also be charged with murder. Why let anyone off?

I'm perplexed at the notion of sending highly trained combat troops into a war zone and then charging them with murder! They are not police officers. They are in an environment where it is nearly impossible to distinguish friend from foe and their lives are in mortal danger all the time.

If we cannot stomach the realities of war, then we need not get ourselves involved in such activities. By this I mean we should be careful of the individuals we allow in government who speak and act on our behalf.

 

[Bholanath]

I just keep coming back to the idea that sane and reverent humanity would benefit from getting clear about what war and torture is fundamentally about, instead of letting the PTBs define the terms of the debate/conversation.
The way it looks to me is that most of the human race for much of history has continually been subjected to personal and collective trauma from war, torture and other atrocities. And EVERY generation is always affected whether or not they personally experience, witness or have knowledge of the slaughter. The vibration encircles the planet, with everyone aware that they could be the next victim (even if they deny it). So the trauma is FELT, and consciousness is held down, our birthright of human dignity is stolen, love/truth/beauty have no value, and it seems like SOMEBODY is getting FED by both the large-scale sacrifices and the intensity level of the terror and trauma. And there's no shortage of psychos to serve as the instruments. Sure, all the PTBs are partnered up with the arms-dealers in a money-death cult, but we have no contact with them. I don't know the solution, but we can individually choose to deal straightforwardly and determinedly with psychopaths and their behaviors in our own worlds when we encounter them. Take responsibility to "tell the children the truth". It means taking risks and coming under attack and suffering isolation. But it feels better to live life awake and uncompromised, and maybe we can somehow starve the beast.

 

[Frank]

Reply to anart.

To answer your first question, I still have faith in the power of the individual to think for her/himself and perhaps realize that the educational system is only providing the foundation or jumping off point for a lifetime of education; the formal system not withstanding.

To answer your second question, I believe we have a lot to learn from the American revolution. The government of King George was held responsible for its actions and summarily dismissed as a governing body in this country.

We, of course, do not need to resort to wholesale revolution because the Constitution provides for orderly transitions of power. What we don't enjoy today, as compared to yesteryear, is honest dialogue and debate on the issues. To correct that, we need to dismantle the media monopoly trend.