'Audition' - Portrait of a Psychopath

[nemo]

I`ve seen Audition when it was the hype on the Berlin Fantasy Festival back in the 90ies. I didn`t like the movie
at all since the most "powerful" scene was said torture scene, the only one still vivid in my memory.
Just ask yourself how much artistry you need to scare the bejesus out of the audience with a torture scene!

It seems to me that the cutest and most adorable kitschy characters (Pokemon, Hello Kitty,
Sailor Moon, Ah! My Goddess etc) all come from Japan...so it's kind of a bi polar culture in some ways.

You have this pipolarity in the US as well: The Singing Nun on one side, Texas Chainsaw Massacre on the other.
There`s been a massive rise of violence in US movies (starting in the 60ies, when the old Hollywood Studio System
died and the censorship was loosened up considerably).
Since the rise of the Independant Cinema in the early 90ies violence in US-movies has quadrupled.
Still there`s an overwhelming tendency to sentimentalize (from Capra to Ford to Spielberg).
Asian people seem to have a perfectionist streak in their mentalities (based on their films, esp. animes, mangas, art etc.).
At the same time, they are like a sponge when it comes to western culture. They incorporate a lot of western influences
in their culture. Obviously this is no one way influence; Since japanese art was discovered in 19th century Europe, there`s
been a ping pong game of swapping influences between the West and the East.
That been said, there`s a certain otherness in japanese culture, which can be difficult to understand for a westerner.
While watching the Korean monster movie Host, I simply couldn`t tell if the irritating mood shifts in the film (sometimes Drama,
then Comedy, then Horror) was a sign of the filmmakers insecurity or a reflection of a different mentality?
I do know from my brother who is a Japanese Anime fan, that the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki made a profound impression
on the japanese mentality (how could it not be so?). There`s ample evidence if you view managas like Ottomo`s Akira and others.
I`m a bit disappointed that there`s no japanese/asian forumite here who could offer us a more indepth view on this matter.

 

[nemo]

I think that's where it is a bit deceiptive because "fun" violence is still violence nonetheless.
The outer form is maybe more adapted to westerners psyche ?
But I also think this may not be as clear cut as that, as the world itself can be violent, just look at nature sometimes. But we normally should have the choice to opt-out from certain forms of violence if we do so wish.
Born in a psychopathic society, you learn to "enjoy" this violence, maybe as a mimetic defensive skill, maybe as thrill seeking activity ?
Maybe you feel its wrong within you but as everyone else seems ok with it you try to tame your fear of disgust by submitting yourself to acceptable forms of violence.

I`ve always been drawn to violence in the movies. It seems to be a way of metaphorically dealing with real life violence by "play acting".
And of course, it`s nothing new. Just treat yourselves to reading Homer`s Splatter play "Illias". Or certain fairy tales.

Our personalities also pass through temporary destructive periods as a result of
various life events, especially if we undergo suffering or meet with situations or
circumstances which are at variance with our prior experiences and imaginings.
These so-called disintegrative stages are often unpleasant, although not necessarily
so. A good dramatic work, for instance, enables us to experience a disintegrative
state, simultaneously calming down the unpleasant components and furnishing
creative ideas for a renewed reintegration of our own personalities. True theater
therefore causes the condition known as catharsis.

 

[JonnyRadar]

Maybe you feel its wrong within you but as everyone else seems ok with it you try to tame your fear of disgust by submitting yourself to acceptable forms of violence.

indeed. i did this same thing for a long time throughout my childhood. always hated gory/violent movies but would "tame my fear of disgust" and attempt to "fit in" with the crowd watching the film, and then be left with nightmares and such for a while afterwards.

violence and gore in the united states' film industry is no less or more prevalent than in the japanese industry, osit. visit the video store and peruse the titles that have been released, just say, in the last year. there are more titles than ever about torture, psychopathy, bloodlust and violence. if that very fact isn't directly reflected in the rise in violence we've seen for real in this country then i don't know where it is. i am hearing stories about somebody else getting shot every single day. stories of sadistic police, children committing murder, and otherwise total senseless violence... you've gotta wonder - does that come, in part, from imprinting the vibrational frequency of extremely violent media into our collective subconscious?

EDIT: to the remarks about japanese culture having been affected by the nuclear bombs thusly dropped, that seems very evident. i wonder also if "our" (USA) position of having dropped the bombs has affected in our consciousness a similar desensitization to violence. as in - "well, the government did it, so..." i say that in remembering the majority of responses i receive when discussing hiroshima and nagasaki - "hey, it ended the war."

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

I've seen the movie (prompted by my dear Tigersoap) and hated it. The first part is boring and uneventful and when something does happen, you really wish it was boring and uneventful again! I closed my eyes most of the time and years later, I can still hear her "kilikiliki" or whatever it is she is saying while torturing that man.
Frankly, how anyone can see that movie several times is beyond me.

Or is it? Because, in fact, as a teenager, i used to like pretty violent things. Music, films, etc. Because it was something I knew, I guess, it felt familiar, as I had grown up in a violent household.

As I grew older and began working on myself, this type of films/music lost its appeal. I think I was getting better mentally speaking and no longer needed a film or a song to project the pain and suffering I was feeling.
And then I had my baby daughter and the "I don't need to see that kind of thing anymore" became a real aversion. I can't stand anything violent, or even referring to violence. I can't stand a supposedly funny commercial enticing people to push people off cliffs so that they don't have to share their candy bar. Maybe it also has to do with my job as a therapist: I hear the real ugly stuff all day long and don't need anybody to make me think it's cool to behave psychopatically.

 

[Telperion]

As I grew older and began working on myself, this type of films/music lost its appeal. I think I was getting better mentally speaking and no longer needed a film or a song to project the pain and suffering I was feeling.

Yes, I agree violent movies/culture can serve this function however as my art history professor once said, "All art is an expression of the society that produced it." So watching certain films, looking at certain paintings, listening to certain music, reading certain books etc..., can have a lot more to do with examining a culture and trying to understand it then simple entertainment or personal gratification. But I agree certain milestones or turning points in ones life such as the birth of a child can dramatically change what one wants to observe or feels drawn to.

i wonder also if "our" (USA) position of having dropped the bombs has affected in our consciousness a similar desensitization to violence.

I think you're right about this, violence affects the perpetrator as much as the victim but in a different way.

I`ve always been drawn to violence in the movies. It seems to be a way of metaphorically dealing with real life violence by "play acting". And of course, it`s nothing new. Just treat yourselves to reading Homer`s Splatter play "Illias". Or certain fairy tales.

I'm partial to horror/violent movies as well but not because I'm seeking some vicarious thrill but because I think it's interesting to see certain aspects of societies mirrored back through these kinds of films. Where literature is concerned take for example the original Hans Christian Anderson and Grimm Brothers tales...times really haven't changed so much in regards to young people being exposed to violence. I mean when I discovered some years ago that in the original tale the Little Mermaid was made to feel like she was walking on sharp knives with every step she took as a human I was like...oh my god.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Any good film maker can make a movie depicting violence and demonstrating the most psychopathic and evil behavior without ever needing to get gory and graphic. Such thing just takes away from any real universal lessons that might exist in the movie, if they exist. It is already evidenced in this very thread when all people remember about the movie is the gory scene - not anything they learned from it of value to their lives.

Similarly, a movie about a relationship between people where sex is involved does not need to turn into porn. Because when it does, it takes away from any real meaning. I don't think this is any different - it's focusing on all the wrong details, and that's what people will take away from it, not what really matters.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Yes, I agree violent movies/culture can serve this function however as my art history professor once said, "All art is an expression of the society that produced it."

Well, this film is an expression of the film maker that produced it then. It's like "Passion of the Christ" - why would a film maker focus on mutilation of the flesh and our fear of physical pain when that is not the real threat in this world?

So watching certain films, looking at certain paintings, listening to certain music, reading certain books etc..., can have a lot more to do with examining a culture and trying to understand it then simple entertainment or personal gratification.

There are things that are simply subjective elements of a culture, and then there are things that go beyond culture and are found in all cultures. Psychopathy is an example of such a thing. I'm not sure if its accurate to say that this movie is an example of some element of Japanese culture. I think it's more likely to be an example of a mental state that has its root much deeper than any culture. I think a particular culture might "dress it up" in its own way, but under the window dressing it is still the same thing. Like different cultures have different architectural designs for houses - but underneath the decorations and design, it is still a house that acts like any other house in the world. Similarly, maybe the Japanese "official culture" takes this psychopathic element that is injected into it and dresses it up in its own way - puts it into movies, and does other things with it, but all such things seem to be cultural "disguises" for the same psychological disturabance that permeates all other cultures as well.

My high school english teacher once said something that I think is true - that generally what makes great works of literature great is their shared ability to tap into human nature, something that hasn't ever changed - which is why those works never truly "age" either. So while each such work may be unique in its presentation and reflect the culture of its respective place and time, beyond the surface they all convey the same universal lessons.

But there are layers upon layers of what we can learn from a movie or a book. There is the layer of culture, then there is the layer of universal lessons that the literature creator intended to convey, and then there's the layer of what the creator reveals about his own mind - whether he intends to convey anything or not. It's not just his "culture" that is conveyed, it's also more objective and universal things like his general psychological state, world view, etc.

 

[Telperion]

Well, this film is an expression of the film maker that produced it then. It's like "Passion of the Christ" - why would a film maker focus on mutilation of the flesh and our fear of physical pain when that is not the real threat in this world?

Miike like Mel Gibson is giving a certain audience what it wants, more so in Japan but also worldwide. 'Audition' believe it or not is actually quite restrained and toned down for Miike, and frankly most of his other films I can't get into. Gibson's brutal torture film also has an audience especially here in the US where most everyone calls himself a Christian and believes such events happened. Japanese persons or those of other nationalities who accept a certain world view might see Miike's films as more than gore festivals because of their particular point of view. Whether physical pain is a real threat or not, many people believe it is and actually many have experienced it so it should not be all that shocking when graphic depictions of physical pain enter into films.

I'm not sure if its accurate to say that this movie is an example of some element of Japanese culture. I think it's more likely to be an example of a mental state that has its root much deeper than any culture. I think a particular culture might "dress it up" in its own way, but under the window dressing it is still the same thing.

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense, though this dressing up can range the span between an embroidered couture gown and a muddy burlap sack.

Similarly, a movie about a relationship between people where sex is involved does not need to turn into porn. Because when it does, it takes away from any real meaning. I don't think this is any different - it's focusing on all the wrong details, and that's what people will take away from it, not what really matters.

I disagree, when it comes to graphic depictions sometimes it's hard for certain types of people to see the forest for the trees. Any prejudices or ideas a person has about how 'good' or 'bad' a particular depiction is or is not will affect how they view the work. For example in the movies 'Kids', 'Monster's Ball' and 'Requiem For a Dream' there are graphic depictions of sexual acts that turned many people off yet were fundamental to the plot and message of the films. If someone can't see beyond a certain graphic scene(s) to experience a film in totality than maybe that particular film simply has no resonance with them.

But there are layers upon layers of what we can learn from a movie or a book....It's not just his "culture" that is conveyed, it's also more objective and universal things like his general psychological state, world view, etc.

And how someone interprets, understands or whether they are even able to recognize these objective things depends a lot on a person's development/maturity etc. For example when I first saw 'The English Patient' I was almost bored to tears but some year later I gave it another try and was able to really experience it because I was older and somewhat more experienced with life and could understand more of what was being said in the long pauses and seemingly 'boring' moments.