Awakening and relationships

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Ummm. I meant other than Laura?

Check out the Cassiopaea library at
http://www.cassiopaea.org/library/cass_lib.htm
You may find what you are looking for there, among many other books on all sorts of subjects. It has a search function, so after logging into the Library, you can click View and type "history" in the Title field (for example) and search for that word in book titles. Also you can search by category or other means.

Alternatively, you can look at extensive bibliography of Secret History of the World here:
http://www.qfgpublishing.com/product_info.php?products_id=42 (click on the .pdf link)
You could look through it and might find something that may interest you.

I personally don't know of any particular books to recommend off the top of my head though, but I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for in the resources above. :)

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

No I havent read any of the books you have mentioned. I am looking for truth. But its so hard to know where to start.

I don't think it matters where you start, I think it's your approach that matters most. Start anywhere, cuz at least one thing IS certain - if you never start, you'll never get anywhere. If you have an open/critical approach, I think you'll inevitably be arriving at the same conclusions as others with the same approach. We all started having no clue where to start.

Also as a "normal person". I do find this all abit highbrow and inaccessble.

I think it is in some respects, but I also think the SOTT team tries their best to make it accessable to people of all ages and backgrounds. If you start delving deeper into esoteric work, you will inevitably encounter "intellectual" writings and books that require you to think critically before you can even begin to understand what is being takled about (sometimes you won't understand until much later along your path too). I don't think it's because it is highbrow, I think it's just the nature of the work. But this group, again, takes such writings and tries to put them in more common language for "normal people" (like you and me and many others) to understand. But there is only so much that can be done, you can only simplify it "so far". I personally think Laura's books are very easily written in normal language using ordinary english words, and so the language part of it even a highschool student will understand. The concepts themselves, however, cannot really be simplified due to the nature of some of these concepts.

Michael at least got some of the message out there.

Not all messages are created equal :D

Isnt that a good thing?

It would depend on what the message is!

How on earth are we to find the truth if its buried so deep that only intellectuals can access it.

Well, this group is working actively to find those "deeply buried" things and put'em in every-day language and then spread it around the best they can. But also, some truth is not so much "buried" as it just requires critical thinking, research, and constant effort to see things objectively. You don't have to be "highly educated" to critically think and research, but if you cannot critically think and do not wish to put in any effort, you will never find truth either. There is simply no free lunch. This group is established to try to make it easier for the average person to find these esoteric ideas and other things, but some things like understanding them and putting them in proper context and working on ourselves cannot be done by someone else for you. So while Laura, Ark, and others can do a lot of the "dirty work" to make it much MUCH easier for the rest of us - some things they cannot do for us, such as the Work that Gurdjieff speaks of or just critical thinking.

 

[D Rusak]

It's funny that in a sense, it is a lot like bringing your child to school for the first time and leaving him/her there. He/she looks at you with those desperate, scared, but trusting eyes and can't understand why you're leaving him/her for the first time in a foreign place and going away! You know it must be done, but you don't know how to explain it to the child to make him/her understand that this is not permanent, that you'll be back, to understand that it's ok and he/she will be ok. Although YOU understand this, because your child may not and is crying his/her eyes out, it may make YOU cry and not want to leave him/her despite your knowing better. I've seen parents almost being carried out because they couldn't bear to leave their child in school for the first time. If they could only explain to the child, make him/her understand - but they can't and it's killing them!

I happenned to see the latest episode of South Park last night, and it actually reminds me a lot of this concept- although in a humorous, screwed up way. Sometimes the most meaningful love occurs when you allow someone the space to step back and really analyze one's actions, traits, and feelings. It often provokes a violent emotional response at first, but promotes true learning in the end.

 

[mercurius]

Erm sorry but I get a weird alarm bell feeling about all this. Yeah right the libary. You have to pay to get access to it and I havent seen one book you recommend that isnt sythesised back to of from Laura.

Some of you (Not all) come across, dare I say it Brainwashed.

Sorry darlings I have my own mind and I dont like being told who I shouldnt be reading. I cannot see for the life of me any thing wrong with Micheal Tsarion. He is human and sincere. I go with gut feeling. VERY suspicious of cults!!

 

[Ryan]

Sorry darlings I have my own mind and I dont like being told who I shouldnt be reading. I cannot see for the life of me any thing wrong with Micheal Tsarion. He is human and sincere. I go with gut feeling. VERY suspicious of cults!!

For someone who goes with "gut feeling" on things, you SHOULD be very suspicious of cults, because gut feelings are one of the main ways they entrap people. Henry See has written an excellent article on the dynamics of "cults" and "gurus", using the example of Prem Rawat aka Maharaji.

Of course, perhaps you are not interested in reading this either, and would prefer to preach about Michael Tsarion. If so, I respectfully suggest you take it elsewhere - perhaps a forum like this, that may be more open to disinformation.

Speaking of cults, anart wrote an excellent post on Tsarion:

Ultimately, I cannot downplay or ignore such a deep involvement with people who have proven time and again that they are disinformation artists - like attracts like in such cases, and even if a person begins their work with the utmost sincerity, if they work in that kind of environment, they cannot control the influence it has, not only on themselves, but on the 'teaching' they present.
I also find this section interesting...

As we know, there are many people calling themselves "teachers" who involve themselves in these arcane subjects. Nearly all of these individuals come from other disciplines, from the fields of academic psychology, mythology, philosophy or even business and science, etc,. They are often severely handicapped by the bad habits they have learned from trying to matriculate in these fields. I come directly from the philosophical and metaphysical traditions. It is in my bloodline from many generations past. We would do well, therefore, to remember that though many can teach ancient subjects, few can teach them in the ancient way. And there is a difference - Michael Tsarion

This is a clear statement that only he can tell you the truth, which we've learned, time and time again, is not only pure hogwash (no matter who is saying it), but is also a severely disempowering manipulative technique. It also has the ring of "don't be distracted by the facts presented by those working from a more scientific, philisophical or even psychological background, as they will never be able to understand these things as well as I do". It also points to the idea that a mind trained to follow data and facts based on those data is ill-equipped to understand or pass on esoteric truths - that a critically trained mind is a 'bad habit' learned through matriculation.

I have come to develop an understanding that the first and most telling sign that someone is not who they claim to be is the proclamation that they are the One who is best qualified to tell you the truth. A human being who has had a glimpse behind the veil , or who has had a real brush with the truth, comes away from that experience with a humility born of realizing how little they really know - and how varied and many the paths to enlightenment really are - a real seeker of the truth feels that they have no laurels upon which to rest, since the more they learn, the more they realize how little they know - at least this is how it seems to me. Of course, I could be wrong. =)

"I come directly from the philosophical and metaphysical traditions. It is in my bloodline from many generations past. We would do well, therefore, to remember that though many can teach ancient subjects, few can teach them in the ancient way." - Michael Tsarion.

That sounds like "guru-speak" to me.

 

[mercurius]

Whats wrong with having loads of gurus! I,ll take them all Jesus, Buddah, Tarot, New Age, Jung, Freud, Lennon, Ike.
If you have an independant mind. Surely you can take some wisdom from all of them and come to your own beliefs.

But I will take your advice and go elsewhere. God bless you all!

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Whats wrong with having loads of gurus! I,ll take them all Jesus, Buddah, Tarot, New Age, Jung, Freud, Lennon, Ike.
If you have an independant mind. Surely you can take some wisdom from all of them and come to your own beliefs.

Who said they are all, or ANY of them are "gurus"? See the problem is when someone declares himself a guru, or tries to convince others of this perspective. There are no gurus - declaring yourself to be one is ego at best, psychopathy at worst.

From google:

A guru (गुरू Sanskrit) is a teacher in Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism. It is based on a long line of philosophical understandings of the importance of knowledge and that the teacher, guru, is the sacred conduit to self-realization

And here's the key part: ".. is the sacred conduit to self-realization". That's the problem, NOBODY is a "sacred conduit to self-realization". Anyone who tries to present him/herself as such, is a liar and a fraud, period. There is no one souce, nothing and nobody is "sacred" or "exalted".

Some of you (Not all) come across, dare I say it Brainwashed.

I would be curious to know who and what evidence/data has led you to this conclusion?

I cannot see for the life of me any thing wrong with Micheal Tsarion. He is human and sincere. I go with gut feeling.

See this is the difference between you and this group. We go with evidence and data. There are many "feelings" inside us, and it is not always clear which ones are "gut feelings" and which ones are manipulated into us, which ones come from something else entirely. Therefore, in order to ever learn the truth we have no choice - we must rely on evidence/data to try to understand reality. Billions of people go with their gut feelings every day, like those people who believe that Iraqis are terrorists or that Christianity is the "truth". It's not getting them very far. Either their "gut feelings" are wrong, or they mistake the wrong feelings for their "gut". Either way they stray farther and farther from objective reality because they go with "feelings" instead of data.

So if you want gurus and instead of data just want to follow whatever your "gut" says, this is not the group for you. If you want to examine all available evidence, have no gurus, and network with collinear people to use DATA to try to piece together the puzzle that is our inner and outer reality, then this is the aim of this group.